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  • [20:35:31] * Topic is 'http://beagleboard.org/chat has a guide on how to ask questions and links to the logs | never ask to ask, just ask | be patient'
  • [20:35:31] * Set by jkridner!~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner on Fri Jun 14 15:37:38 CDT 2013
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  • [20:35:57] <rob_w> he is trying to load that driver on the i2c2 bus
  • [20:36:45] * Guest29590 (~bleh1@87.254.92.132) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [20:38:33] <Vaizki> ok n00b mode, I guess i2c devices can't be enumerated in any way since all you can see is an id on the bus like 0x77 in this case? and if you probe you might actually screw up a write-only device?
  • [20:39:52] <Vaizki> so either you poke them in via sysfs like that or roll up a DTO?
  • [20:39:55] <rob_w> well they are rather "adressed" then "enumrated" .. yet the get enumrated after registering
  • [20:40:37] <rob_w> the 0x77 is the adress the chip will response only .. hardcoded
  • [20:40:56] <Vaizki> yea.. or selectable on some via pins et
  • [20:40:57] <Vaizki> etc
  • [20:41:02] <rob_w> yeah
  • [20:41:10] <rob_w> like base + x
  • [20:41:12] <SpeedEvil> And I2C devices may not have - probably don't have - unique responses.
  • [20:41:29] * tolip (~kvirc@c-67-184-188-213.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:41:48] <SpeedEvil> there is no 'card information structure' like cardbus, for example, showing the device type.
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  • [20:41:55] <SpeedEvil> Or descriptors like for USB
  • [20:42:11] <Vaizki> ye that's what I meant, no way to know what's on there
  • [20:42:21] <Vaizki> just ping some addresses and even that's risky
  • [20:42:46] <SpeedEvil> Same as with ISA, pretty-much.
  • [20:43:18] <rob_w> you better be carefull with that i2c-bomb-activater chips ..
  • [20:44:02] <SpeedEvil> Or I2C power supply chips.
  • [20:44:06] * rob_w (~rob@unaffiliated/rob-w/x-1112029) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [20:44:08] <SpeedEvil> Which are rather more common
  • [20:44:17] <Vaizki> yea like the PMIC on the BBB...
  • [20:45:10] <Vaizki> don't want to be a wiseass or anything but why not make command 0 return the device mfg + type id as part of the i2c "standard"..
  • [20:45:15] <m_billybob> so not programming the i2c on the BBB but the actual device on the other end ?
  • [20:45:16] <Vaizki> a bit late now
  • [20:45:26] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: Because it wasn't.
  • [20:45:34] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: And because that's not the point of I2C.
  • [20:45:37] <Vaizki> yes. wiseassing.
  • [20:45:43] <SpeedEvil> It's very much a dedicated soldered-in bus.
  • [20:46:17] <SpeedEvil> The notion that people might want to - like now - probe using generic kernels - is deeply odd - from an embedded perspective.
  • [20:47:26] <Vaizki> yes and I know the idea is that if you have plugin boards etc, put an eeprom on a known i2c address there and store app level info in it to recognize hardware
  • [20:48:03] <Vaizki> instead of supporting bus scanning / enumeration on the i2c level of things. but I digress.
  • [20:53:52] <m_billybob> suddenly i feel very lost.
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  • [20:54:13] <m_billybob> no biggy though i suppose, ill get there some day
  • [20:55:05] <tolip> newby question -- Is anyone here communicating with a BBB via a USB 3.0 port and also using a Linux-3.10.5 kernel on the PC?
  • [20:55:19] <m_billybob> communicating how
  • [20:55:40] <m_billybob> and yes i am but not sure of the context in whcih you mean
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  • [20:55:54] <tolip> serial over USB or ethernet over USB
  • [20:56:02] <m_billybob> using 3.8.13.-bone21 though
  • [20:56:35] <m_billybob> so like RNDIS or g_ether. yes i have done that. not very impressed with it but it does seem to work.
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  • [20:57:57] <m_billybob> If you're about to ask if booting via RNDIS /g_multi is possible . . . ive tried that too, and so far it is a no go. atleast for me and I am not sure why
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  • [20:59:43] <ds2> the mailing list is depressing
  • [20:59:54] <m_billybob> is today so far
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  • [21:01:50] <tolip> welp I don't have a micro hdmi cable yet so I figgered it was the way to go but I can not even do basic serial over USB, lots of things changed in 3.10.x arghhhhh
  • [21:02:40] * felipebalbi (~balbi@cpe-192-136-223-60.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [21:03:30] <m_billybob> im using the ethernet port on the BBB, wanted to experiment some with NFS over RNDIS, and I did get it to work, but it was depressing. slow as hell, and the connection seems to be intermitent( this isnt stick btw )
  • [21:03:44] <m_billybob> stock*
  • [21:04:44] <tolip> does the BBB get it's IP via DHCP? (latest Angstrom eMMC)
  • [21:05:02] <maxinux> by default
  • [21:05:07] <m_billybob> for RNDIS ? No
  • [21:05:27] <m_billybob> technically the host side is dhcp, but its limited to a range of one IP.
  • [21:05:40] <m_billybob> 192.168.7.1
  • [21:07:04] <RypRap> tolip: yes and u can use opkg
  • [21:08:05] <woglinde> ds2 whats up?
  • [21:08:35] <RypRap> damn, weak micro hdmi adaptor bended too much... so i wont know if hdmi on BBB really works..
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  • [21:09:54] <tolip> lol, I just wanna see something besides the mass storage device over USB (I did say I was a BBB newby :)
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  • [21:10:19] <m_billybob> tolip host OS ?
  • [21:10:49] <tolip> If I turn on DHCP on my network will the BBB get an address?
  • [21:11:01] <m_billybob> from ethernet yes.
  • [21:11:22] <tolip> I'm runnin Slackware (well it started out as Slackware anyways)
  • [21:11:43] <m_billybob> tolip so should be possible there was some recent discussion o nthe groups about that
  • [21:12:24] <m_billybob> if you mean you would like to see the rootfs partition. ALthough im not sure of the steps needed to do so
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  • [21:14:27] <tolip> I think you answered my question, I'll enable DHCP on my router and plug it in.
  • [21:14:59] <m_billybob> tolip are you having ssh issues ?
  • [21:15:20] <RypRap> is it really to boot or flash from network instead of sd/emmc ?
  • [21:15:26] <RypRap> really possible *
  • [21:15:57] <m_billybob> RypRap it is possible to boot from USB / network
  • [21:16:20] <m_billybob> so i guess your answer would be yes. i was reading some TI docs yesterday that said it was posible
  • [21:20:05] <tolip> I have not gotten that far yet (ssh). The beginners guide seems to be windoze centric and the limited Linux stuff seems to assume Ubuntu _IS_ linux
  • [21:20:31] <m_billybob> RypRap err, sorry, yes to both I know for a fact that netboot via TFTP/NFS does work.
  • [21:20:35] <mru> ubuntu is not linux
  • [21:20:45] <tolip> I flashed via microSD (according to the blue spotlights)
  • [21:22:01] <m_billybob> My BBB is actuall booted from a TFTP/NFS server ( on a Virtual box VM ) right now, and in this channel
  • [21:22:09] <tolip> agree Ubu is not linux, it's just that the info I find on the web seems to assume I am runnin Ubu
  • [21:22:40] <tolip> on the host PC that is
  • [21:22:54] <m_billybob> I wouldnt personally use ubuntu on the bbb either
  • [21:23:18] <RypRap> m_billybob: do u have any pointers for TI doc about booting from usb/network ?
  • [21:23:39] <m_billybob> RypRap, which distro are you running Angstrom ?
  • [21:23:43] <cde> RypRap: http://www.embeddedhobbyist.com/
  • [21:23:54] * Mode-M (~Null@2001:a60:235f:5901:226:82ff:fe31:c934) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [21:24:46] <RypRap> yes angstrom, the original one, and id like to update to latest version without sd
  • [21:25:38] <tolip> BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.07.31.img (the bleeding edge, just like my Linux 3.10.5 kernel)
  • [21:25:40] <RypRap> cde: thnk im checking that
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  • [21:25:49] <m_billybob> RypRap yeah thats my blog , its debian centric, but with some creativity, should work with angstrom too. The rootfs / netboot posts I feel i wrote poorly though. I mean i cover everything, but i should have written them like the USB boot guide, which is much shorter, showing multiple ways to achieve the end goal, and generically
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  • [21:26:39] <m_billybob> I struggled for a long time trying to make those post as concise as possible as wel as more generic
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  • [21:30:07] <m_billybob> I should probably rewrite them, problem with that is that i'll want to test to make absolutely sure the steps do work
  • [21:30:17] <cde> it is well explained I think
  • [21:30:23] <m_billybob> maybe ill do that this week some time
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  • [21:30:40] <m_billybob> thanks cde appreciated.
  • [21:30:55] <m_billybob> still i think i can do better :)
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  • [21:31:04] <tolip> welp, I got plenty to keep me entertained for a while, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP !!! (I'm sure I'll be back) lol :)
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  • [21:31:14] <m_billybob> tolip working ?
  • [21:31:45] <Vaizki> tolip: sorry only one support ticket per day
  • [21:32:34] <m_billybob> Vaizki, then the bbb must be submerged into water to surpress firther progress ?
  • [21:32:41] <m_billybob> further*
  • [21:33:08] <m_billybob> I still giggle at that comment, yeap im silly
  • [21:33:28] <tolip> gotta dig out a ladder to get to my router or switch so I have not done anything yet. I'll report back whenst I
  • [21:34:00] <tolip> can report yay or nay on progress
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  • [21:40:48] <Vaizki> m_billybob: it does work you know.
  • [21:46:20] <m_billybob> Vaizki except me knowing what i do, i unplug is, wait for it to cool off, put it in water remove it, then douse it with alcohol. let it sit utnil fully dried off
  • [21:46:51] <m_billybob> we sometimes wash PCB's in the dishwasher here.
  • [21:47:07] <m_billybob> PCBA's to be exact
  • [21:48:15] <m_billybob> so no perminent surpression but it'd still surpress progress for a day or two maybe
  • [21:48:38] <kfoltman> m_billybob: how about dousing it with alcohol and setting it on fire?
  • [21:48:48] <m_billybob> heh
  • [21:49:13] <m_billybob> think i could think of cheaper / easier ways to "surpress progress" ;)
  • [21:49:37] <m_billybob> a hamer comes to mind.
  • [21:50:00] <kfoltman> just give it to me, I surely won't make any progress with it
  • [21:50:02] <m_billybob> think some guy early on after the bbb was released actually did that
  • [21:50:16] <kfoltman> yes, I remember some forum thread or something like that
  • [21:50:29] <m_billybob> he broke the board up into pieces, and Gerald lol said baggy the pieces and we'll RMA it lol
  • [21:50:37] <kfoltman> bbb microsd slot not working -> use a hammer
  • [21:50:44] <m_billybob> lol yeah
  • [21:51:28] <kfoltman> well, screw microsd, but if uart pins weren't working, I'd probably do that ;)
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  • [21:51:49] <kfoltman> ALL HAIL UART
  • [21:51:54] <m_billybob> the project we have in mind uses all uarts so yeah id tend to agree
  • [21:51:57] <ds2> ubuntu is an infestation
  • [21:52:02] * mranostay did it get more canadian in here?
  • [21:52:09] <mranostay> hi mag :)
  • [21:53:45] <mag> hi mranostay
  • [21:53:55] <m_billybob> I know some people who have been using linux / unix for years, and they use ubuntu. the reason for them is simple. they want an OS they dont have to mess with. They just want to use it, and not work at getting it to work.
  • [21:54:12] <m_billybob> so in some respect i can understandthat, but its definately not for me
  • [21:54:15] <mru> that's precisely why I shun ubuntu
  • [21:54:24] <mru> I want something that just works
  • [21:54:42] <kfoltman> mru: just take ubuntu and apply it in reverse
  • [21:54:43] <mru> for _my_ definition of work
  • [21:54:50] <m_billybob> works the way you want it to work id imagine
  • [21:55:11] <m_billybob> me, i work at making thigns work my way
  • [21:55:14] <cde> urm: just take reverse and apply it in ubuntu
  • [21:55:33] <kfoltman> well, ubuntu only just works if your usage patterns follow Shuttleworth's to a tee
  • [21:55:36] <m_billybob> ive had all kidns of issues with ubuntu so you dotn need to convince me
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  • [21:56:01] <tolip> OK, I'm ssh'd in now, thx for the help so far :)
  • [21:56:03] <m_billybob> i tried it early on. and a few years after that
  • [21:56:10] <m_billybob> tolip excellent
  • [21:56:11] <mranostay> to know ubuntu is to know pain
  • [21:56:27] <tolip> can I export the DISPLAY to my linux box?
  • [21:56:35] <mru> tolip: ssh -X
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  • [21:56:40] <kfoltman> ubuntu is a best example of "history repeats itself, as a farce"
  • [21:56:40] <m_billybob> yes you can.
  • [21:57:14] <kfoltman> tolip: is your linux box in Iran?
  • [21:57:17] <cde> kfoltman: at least we get a good laugh out of it
  • [21:57:29] <m_billybob> I think ubuntu is probably abotu as close as Linux can get to Windows, in many respects.
  • [21:57:42] <m_billybob> meaning not exactly a good thing
  • [21:58:04] <mru> ubuntu is gradually edging away from everything you'd normally think of as linux
  • [21:58:18] <m_billybob> actually though now that im thinking about it windows is probably better than ubuntu in some respects too
  • [21:58:30] <mru> upstart, unity, mir... it all fits the pattern
  • [21:58:33] <m_billybob> most user expeprience stuff
  • [21:58:34] <cde> if ubuntu moves as forward, it will rewrite every piece of software in existence, including itself
  • [21:58:51] <mru> ubuntu is fucking ugly by default
  • [21:58:58] <mru> windows at least has decent font rendering (now)
  • [21:59:13] <cde> mru: you can tweak that, with gnome-tweak-tool
  • [21:59:22] <mru> yes, but the defaults are dreadful
  • [21:59:28] <m_billybob> also dont have to worry too much when it comes time to upgrade, but imho its a bad idea to upgrade OS's
  • [21:59:34] <mru> _way_ too much antialiasing
  • [22:00:10] <m_billybob> not updates, but updating from one version of an OS to another
  • [22:00:19] <mru> that's a broken concept
  • [22:00:30] <ds2> ubuntu is unusable by default.
  • [22:00:54] <mru> ds2: as are windows and osx, but they're not half as ugly
  • [22:01:03] <m_billybob> out of curiosity what is everyone's here favored distro ?
  • [22:01:11] <mru> ok, the winxp default theme is ugly as fuck
  • [22:01:14] <m_billybob> not meant to spark zealotry just curious
  • [22:01:15] <ds2> the arejust as ugly
  • [22:01:26] <kfoltman> m_billybob: ZX Spectrum 48 ROM
  • [22:01:28] <ds2> I want a since simple tvtwm/fvwm setup
  • [22:01:35] <cde> m_billybob: mandrake
  • [22:01:41] <ds2> s/since/nice/
  • [22:01:42] <kfoltman> m_billybob: never needed an upgrade
  • [22:01:56] <m_billybob> mandrake, truly ?
  • [22:02:04] <mru> that still exists?
  • [22:02:10] <m_billybob> was wodnering the same myself
  • [22:02:16] <m_billybob> wondering even
  • [22:02:31] <kfoltman> it was renamed to "a distro that drives man crazy" or something like that
  • [22:02:32] <cde> I was kidding. still have the 8.1 version on CD though. one day I'll give it a kick in a VM
  • [22:02:32] <m_billybob> mandrake has been aroudn since the late 90's ?
  • [22:03:10] <m_billybob> heh
  • [22:03:18] <mru> has or hasn't?
  • [22:03:25] <cde> m_billybob: at the time I decided it was unusable, and went with Debian instead
  • [22:03:28] <m_billybob> it has been i know ive installed it a few times
  • [22:03:38] <m_billybob> well dont know if it is still aroudn now but yeah
  • [22:05:30] <m_billybob> dont know why really nut ive never really been keen on redhat or anythign based on it
  • [22:05:35] * iPhoneMRZ (~iphonemrz@91.252.246.84) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  • [22:05:38] <m_billybob> but ive*
  • [22:06:07] <mru> I was never keen on rh either
  • [22:06:23] <ds2> SLS
  • [22:06:26] * arthurnn (~arthurnn@67.210.173.114) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [22:06:30] <ds2> MCC
  • [22:06:31] <mru> and the broken gcc they shipped in one release didn't exactly improve their image
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  • [22:06:54] <mru> another release had a busted perl
  • [22:06:59] <cde> mru: that dreaded 2.96 version? ecgs if I remember well
  • [22:07:13] <mru> yes, 2.96
  • [22:07:33] <mru> 2.95 was the post-egcs unified release
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  • [22:07:48] <mru> 2.96 was a redhat hacked-up version with some added c++ "features"
  • [22:08:00] <ds2> wasn't redhat the gcc maintainer at that time?
  • [22:08:08] <mru> and when they broke the 'sort' command, well...
  • [22:08:11] <m_billybob> mru, yeah but ive seen bugs creep into gcc on my favored distro. Dont recall if it was testing or stable branch but im thinking it was the stable branch i expeprienced gcc issues
  • [22:08:13] <tolip> mru:I shh'd in with -X, it complains. what do I need in .Xauthority on the BBB (already did the xhost + stuff on the PC)
  • [22:08:33] <mru> tolip: try ssh -Y
  • [22:08:44] <mru> and you don't need to mess with xhost
  • [22:08:47] <mru> that's dangerous
  • [22:08:52] <ds2> Mmmmmm xhost +
  • [22:09:00] <ds2> we are all friends on the network :D
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  • [22:09:21] <m_billybob> heh
  • [22:09:22] <ds2> su 'keystrokes' es mi 'keystrokes'
  • [22:09:30] <m_billybob> ds, until someone farts ;)
  • [22:09:33] * groglogic (~groglogic@ip-64-134-149-200.public.wayport.net) has joined #beagle
  • [22:09:35] <cde> the worst feature lately was how they broke memcpy, see https://lwn.net/Articles/414467/
  • [22:09:43] <mranostay> xhost + for the NSA
  • [22:09:52] <mru> cde: that's _not_ a glibc bug
  • [22:10:08] <cde> it's not, right
  • [22:10:17] <kfoltman> memmove or GTFO.
  • [22:10:19] <mru> and I've seen that behaviour from memcpy many years before on other systems
  • [22:10:53] <m_billybob> and they've been contracted by TI to build the next mspgcc i guess
  • [22:10:53] <mru> I have no sympathy for people complaining about that one
  • [22:10:59] * m_billybob cries
  • [22:11:03] <ds2> why are people still using glibc?
  • [22:11:04] * groglogic (~groglogic@ip-64-134-149-200.public.wayport.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [22:11:07] <kfoltman> mru: except sometimes it's someone else's code that magically stops working
  • [22:11:17] <tolip> lol, I did add an IP address after xhost + (I _AM_ a fool but not in this respect)
  • [22:11:19] <mru> ds2: because it works better than anything else
  • [22:11:19] <ds2> glibc has been so F'ing broken it is not funny
  • [22:11:32] <ds2> mru: you use the term works loosely
  • [22:11:35] <mru> kfoltman: I sympathise with those affected by broken code
  • [22:11:48] <mru> but blame should be directed where it belongs
  • [22:12:05] <ds2> when you use -static and it still loads .so files, it is broken.
  • [22:12:11] <ds2> no ifs, ands, or buts about it
  • [22:12:28] <mru> yes, that is broken if you need a static link
  • [22:12:40] * arthurnn (~arthurnn@67.210.173.114) has joined #beaglebone
  • [22:13:05] <mru> so it's not suitable for your very narrow use case
  • [22:13:44] <ds2> i don't find it that narrow
  • [22:13:52] <mru> kfoltman: almost every gcc release exposes bugs in some program or other
  • [22:14:00] <mru> that does not mean we should stop improving gcc
  • [22:14:06] <ds2> but then people also consider libtools a good thing so prehaps...
  • [22:14:19] <mru> eeeew
  • [22:14:24] <m_billybob> i actually like the toolchain a lot
  • [22:14:30] <kfoltman> ds2: those people are mad
  • [22:14:42] <ds2> when madness is the norm...
  • [22:14:47] <m_billybob> mru, OR we could all just stick with CL.exe ;)
  • [22:14:50] <ds2> sanity is madness
  • [22:15:00] * kiilo (~kiilo@77-56-99-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Quit: ciao)
  • [22:15:07] <kfoltman> CL.exe is VC?
  • [22:15:19] <ds2> MSC
  • [22:15:23] <m_billybob> ms's c compiler
  • [22:15:28] <kfoltman> the old one?
  • [22:15:32] <mru> oh the horror
  • [22:15:35] <ds2> predates VC by ages
  • [22:15:38] <mru> old, new, doesn't matter
  • [22:15:40] <m_billybob> new one is stil lthe sme name afaik
  • [22:15:50] <mru> it was a couple of years ago at least
  • [22:16:11] <ds2> I was using cl derivatives back in the late 80's
  • [22:16:22] <kfoltman> I managed to avoid win32 for a few years, then used mingw for some quick and dirty stuff
  • [22:16:53] <mru> I'm pleased to say I've _never_ had to program for windows in any way
  • [22:17:08] <m_billybob> my beginning years learnign C was all WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN
  • [22:17:13] <mru> and certainly not done so voluntarily
  • [22:17:13] <ds2> cl isn't just windows
  • [22:17:15] <ds2> it was DOS
  • [22:17:39] <mru> never used it there either
  • [22:17:41] <ds2> with 'em small, medium, large, and huge memory models!
  • [22:17:52] <kfoltman> flat model or die
  • [22:17:53] <mru> borland had those too
  • [22:18:18] <mru> used to run borland c 2.0 on an old 286
  • [22:18:36] <m_billybob> eeek
  • [22:19:11] <tolip> OK so now I'm in via ssh -Y. I expect something to show up on my X11 display???
  • [22:19:15] <m_billybob> probably predates my coding experience lol
  • [22:19:24] <kfoltman> tolip: run an xterm or something?
  • [22:19:38] <kblin> I've got a cl shell script somewhere
  • [22:19:51] <cde> thank god for python
  • [22:19:53] <kblin> that runs cl.exe via wine
  • [22:19:56] <Vaizki> tasm!
  • [22:20:01] <mru> masm
  • [22:20:03] <cde> tasm32!
  • [22:20:10] <kblin> to build wine test cases
  • [22:20:18] <m_billybob> i remember those
  • [22:20:29] <tolip> I ran ssh -Y from a terminal (xterm equiv)
  • [22:20:29] <mru> some crazy people made a clang-based frontend converting c99 to ms-c
  • [22:20:30] <ds2> kblin: how old of a cl.exe can wine run?
  • [22:20:41] <m_billybob> heh i started off coding with qbasic
  • [22:20:50] <mru> ds2: wine should run anything 32-bit
  • [22:20:58] <kfoltman> 32-bit, meh
  • [22:21:08] <mru> m_billybob: I got rid of qbasic rather quickly
  • [22:21:10] <kfoltman> 16-bit is where the real power is
  • [22:21:10] <kblin> ds2: dunno, I think I was using vc 2003 or somesuch
  • [22:21:19] <kfoltman> mostly the power to drive you insane, but still
  • [22:21:38] <ds2> ah so no ancient dos ones
  • [22:21:38] <m_billybob> mru i jumped from qbasic into a short stint writtign assembly
  • [22:21:44] <m_billybob> and then into C
  • [22:22:05] <mru> I never did 16-bit x86 asm
  • [22:22:06] <m_billybob> but, im a hobbyist, so not the calibur some of you are
  • [22:22:12] <tolip> I tried it with 'xterm' no change
  • [22:22:12] <mru> probably saved my sanity
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  • [22:22:25] <kfoltman> m_billybob: well, I went from Spectrum BASIC to Z80 assembly to Turbo Basic to 8086 assembly to Turbo Pascal to 80386 assembly to C++ to C ;)
  • [22:22:47] <mru> m_billybob: I was about 12 at the time, hardly a professional
  • [22:23:01] <m_billybob> not a bad progresion really except you did the C/C++ thing backwards ;)
  • [22:23:02] <kblin> not sure, I think wine has the 16bit libs as well
  • [22:23:31] * arthurnn (~arthurnn@67.210.173.114) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  • [22:23:37] <m_billybob> mru, and yet im still a hobbyist, not sure i could program for a living day in day out
  • [22:23:38] <kfoltman> I still get paid for C++, not for C ;)
  • [22:23:47] <tolip> ok, got it to open an xterm on the host, can I see the BBB gui on the host?
  • [22:23:52] <m_billybob> i think it'd drive me crazy and that'd be a short trip ;)
  • [22:24:04] <mru> m_billybob: oh, I don't program 'day in day out'
  • [22:24:12] <mru> only for a while in the morning, the rest of the day I spend on irc
  • [22:24:27] <kfoltman> work/life balance and so on
  • [22:24:36] <m_billybob> hehehe all good
  • [22:24:37] <cde> mru: what do you program? just being curious
  • [22:25:17] <mru> 'what' in what sense?
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  • [22:25:27] <kfoltman> m_billybob: BTW the ability to read x86 asm is sometimes useful even in normal programming job
  • [22:25:31] <cde> mru: yes, what in what sense
  • [22:25:34] <ds2> mru writes java code daily
  • [22:25:38] <mru> haha
  • [22:25:40] * ds2 ducks and runs
  • [22:25:48] <cde> there's no shame in that
  • [22:25:49] <mru> kfoltman: reading is always easier than writing
  • [22:25:54] <mru> cde: there is
  • [22:25:56] <m_billybob> kfoltman yes sir i know this. you did yourself a huge favor starting off in it after basic
  • [22:25:59] <kfoltman> mru: I would say the opposite, but that's just me
  • [22:26:05] * baboo is evacuating the planet because of java
  • [22:26:16] <cde> mru: the first step is to admit you write java code
  • [22:26:17] * kfoltman thinks ds2 earned a place on 26+26
  • [22:26:28] * arthurnn (~arthurnn@67.210.173.114) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [22:26:38] <Vaizki> surely java is dying.. tapering off because it has already infested and killed most IT projects, the remaining ones are immune to it now
  • [22:26:39] <ds2> btdt
  • [22:26:40] <tolip> lol, I still remember some Z80 hex (C9=Return)
  • [22:26:52] <mru> java is the new cobol
  • [22:26:52] <kfoltman> or C3 CALL
  • [22:26:58] <Vaizki> some virulent but fairly benign strains like javascript left
  • [22:27:03] <mru> tolip: I'll never forget c9
  • [22:27:07] <kfoltman> mru: I'm pretty sure cobol is the new cobol
  • [22:27:28] <mru> Vaizki: javascript has nothing to do with java
  • [22:27:29] <kblin> Vaizki: apart from the name, javascript is not at all like java
  • [22:27:29] <m_billybob> or cobol is stil cobol i get what mru is saying though
  • [22:27:43] <m_billybob> somewhat in syntax maybe
  • [22:27:48] <m_billybob> as in C-like
  • [22:27:48] <mru> not even that
  • [22:27:48] <tolip> I
  • [22:27:50] <kfoltman> cobol is immortal
  • [22:27:55] <cde> J
  • [22:27:58] <mru> K
  • [22:28:22] <mru> anyhow, I mostly program in C and assembly
  • [22:28:27] <cde> mru: see, we're only a letter apart
  • [22:28:42] <tolip> I bought a Z80 for my C64 (I was working at a Kaypro vendor @ the time) so I could run CP/M on it
  • [22:28:44] <kfoltman> m_billybob: well, it's a language where all the derpy corpo code is being written, so it is a new cobol in a way
  • [22:28:50] <Vaizki> ok ok ;) and yes I've done stuff in both Java and JS
  • [22:29:13] <baboo> js is my favorite language
  • [22:29:14] <kfoltman> where -> in which
  • [22:29:25] <kfoltman> js is not a language, it's a set of hacks, like perl
  • [22:29:29] <m_billybob> kfoltman but is there a cobol 2012 ? even ADA has a year/name monicer
  • [22:29:41] <kfoltman> m_billybob: NFC alas
  • [22:29:46] <kblin> kfoltman: very useful hacks, though
  • [22:29:48] <kfoltman> or perhaps not "alas"
  • [22:30:01] <mru> if hell turns out to be real, I'll probably end up there for my stint teaching java some 12 years ago
  • [22:30:16] <tolip> welp, I ran 'startx' on the BBB expecting a desktop on my host. Do I have my expectations set too high???
  • [22:30:21] <mru> yes
  • [22:30:38] <kfoltman> kblin: if the language lacks decent support for anything, any hack comes useful
  • [22:30:41] <ds2> why in blazes would you expect that to do that?
  • [22:30:45] <Vaizki> expectation management: shoot it before it hatches
  • [22:30:56] <kfoltman> haha
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  • [22:31:07] <cde> tolip: I would recommend you install the X vnc server and use that. works very well for a headless box
  • [22:31:07] <m_billybob> lol
  • [22:31:24] <kblin> kfoltman: with the v8 runtime, I don't actually miss much
  • [22:31:41] <kblin> kfoltman: browser implementations are a bit lacking, I agree
  • [22:31:49] <Vaizki> Estimates put the number of business transactions done in COBOL at between 60 and 80 per cent of all transactions performed worldwide. The number is significantly higher for financial transactions.
  • [22:32:00] <Vaizki> damn.. I want a job spewing estimates
  • [22:32:19] <m_billybob> have to say though, the progress of the state of programming now days is far better than it was 12-13 years ago
  • [22:32:20] <kfoltman> kblin: there's a reason the runtimes for js are so complicated
  • [22:32:24] <tolip> ds2: I would expect that because if I did the same thing on a linux box with the DISPLAY attributes set that is what would happen.
  • [22:32:40] <ds2> go read the startx script
  • [22:32:41] <kfoltman> Vaizki: I think HFT made that statistic invalid anyway
  • [22:32:48] <m_billybob> far more information out there, libraries abound . . . not to mention language improvements etc
  • [22:32:49] <mru> tolip: wrong expectation
  • [22:32:55] * woglinde (~henning@f052232210.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [22:33:05] <tolip> i figgered as much
  • [22:33:08] <Vaizki> m_billybob: can't say the same thing about quality of code though
  • [22:33:24] <Vaizki> especially now that everything is either on the internet or updateable over the internet
  • [22:33:26] <kfoltman> tolip: startx starts an X server and the desktop environment; what you want to do is to do things to your existing X server
  • [22:33:33] <Vaizki> ok it boots, release it
  • [22:33:34] <JasonHale> I have BBB v0A5C w/bonescript v0.2.2 and cannot create Cloud9 IDE projects using Mac(Safari) or Win7 (Firefox) hosts. When saving a file, the tab shows the name of the file but never recovers. I cannot see the files listed in my project. I get the spinning wheel and it never recovers.
  • [22:33:37] <cde> tolip: try it the other way round, start the listening X server on the BBB then connect to it on your other box
  • [22:33:52] <m_billybob> Vaizki, this is what happens when you educate people in college with a language such as java . . .who then start to call themselves developers
  • [22:33:52] <tolip> k
  • [22:34:18] <kblin> JasonHale: I think I had the best results with chrome
  • [22:34:25] <baboo> me too
  • [22:34:33] <m_billybob> quality of teaching in the last 10-15 years has largely gone down hill too
  • [22:34:39] <ds2> the answer there is to not hire CS majors
  • [22:34:43] <kblin> JasonHale: but I ended up writing my bonescript code in a standalone node module
  • [22:34:48] <kfoltman> m_billybob: so did quality of students
  • [22:34:49] <ds2> it avoids the damaged done by Java
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  • [22:35:04] <Vaizki> depends on the school
  • [22:35:18] <kfoltman> m_billybob: the year above my year was insanely more mature/patient/smart than my year, and then it went really downhill
  • [22:35:26] <cde> well in any case Java is no worse than say Python
  • [22:35:27] <Vaizki> when I was at uni they started teaching Java to everyone else except CS majors who still worked with Scheme ;)
  • [22:35:30] <m_billybob> ds2 well just a for instance, MIT teaches python in introductory classes. perfect ? maybe not but atleast they learn proper indentation ;)
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  • [22:35:54] <baboo> true
  • [22:36:05] <ds2> m_billybob: depends on how they teach it... the classes should not be about a language
  • [22:36:14] <m_billybob> so yeah i am sure other top nothc school teach using "proper" tools / languages too
  • [22:36:20] <ds2> teaching a language in a college is stupid to say the least
  • [22:36:22] <kfoltman> current java is not that bad, I think J2EE was the peak badness
  • [22:36:35] <ds2> teach the concept. then use a language in a lab
  • [22:36:43] <m_billybob> i dont use JVM's period
  • [22:36:44] <mru> teaching a language for its own sake is bad
  • [22:36:53] <mru> using a real language for teaching concepts is good
  • [22:36:55] <m_billybob> wel they use python as a teaching tool
  • [22:36:55] <ds2> to teach a language on that level is moronic.
  • [22:36:59] <m_billybob> i should have said
  • [22:37:05] <m_billybob> not the language so much its self
  • [22:37:11] <baboo> in my old school, we used a Logo language turtle, like the python turtles
  • [22:37:26] <ds2> my school did something similar
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  • [22:37:57] <baboo> nothing like js
  • [22:38:17] <baboo> there's square brackets instead of quotes
  • [22:38:21] <Vaizki> I like dynamically typed languages yes but still stuff done in Python or JS.. you can make a 100 different typos that won't be exposed until runtime hits a specific branch
  • [22:38:26] <m_billybob> ds2, mru, i do get what you're both saying though, this is somethign ive self taught myself over years of reading talking with others, and finding what works for me
  • [22:38:32] <mru> I was a TA in CS at the peak of the java hype
  • [22:39:26] <kblin> Vaizki: that's where code analysis helps
  • [22:39:46] <m_billybob> i find picking up a new language pretty easy so long as i have a decent language reference
  • [22:39:59] <kfoltman> try that with haskell
  • [22:40:01] <kfoltman> or prolog
  • [22:40:06] <m_billybob> usually its some obscure scriptign language
  • [22:40:16] <Vaizki> kblin: I would prefer being able to write stricter typed python at will
  • [22:40:34] <Vaizki> and I don't mean peppering code with assert type of traps
  • [22:40:41] <m_billybob> prolog is what ? i know the name but not the language
  • [22:40:51] <ds2> blah asserts
  • [22:40:54] <m_billybob> sounds verilog ish
  • [22:41:01] <kfoltman> no, prolog is prolog
  • [22:41:02] * m_billybob doesnt know
  • [22:41:08] <kfoltman> different paradigm
  • [22:41:20] <kblin> Vaizki: duck typing is super-convenient for testing
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  • [22:42:07] <Vaizki> kblin: yes, but I do production stuff with Python. a lot of it. and would prefer to later go back and stronger-type it.
  • [22:42:23] <kblin> whoops, SIGWIFE
  • [22:42:36] <cde> Vaizki: I don't get it. Python is strongly typed
  • [22:42:55] <cde> although, True+1
  • [22:42:58] <kfoltman> cde: well, objects are pretty much duck typed, or at least most of the time
  • [22:43:18] <kfoltman> there's no concept of strict interface, or at least wasn't in 2.x
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  • [22:43:39] <cde> kfoltman, duck typing != (strong||weak) typing
  • [22:43:54] <m_billybob> C is usually my favored language
  • [22:43:56] <Vaizki> well I need to sleep, sorry for kicking off the discussion and bailing out :)
  • [22:43:56] <kfoltman> it is stronger typed than perl
  • [22:44:04] <m_billybob> if i feel i have a choice
  • [22:44:07] <JasonHale> Yes, I can run javascript in standalone mode. For example, I can use the BBB tutorial with the script examples. In the LED tutorial, the LEDs are responding to the script (ALL ON, ALL OFF, Restore)... I guess I will try C9IDE in Chrome... Thanks.
  • [22:45:14] <ds2> 7
  • [22:45:19] <m_billybob> where there a question in there somewhere ?
  • [22:45:25] <m_billybob> was there*
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  • [22:52:01] <ds2> is tehre a way to get gcc to show me the equiv of what should be in the specs file when it is "Using built-in specs"?
  • [22:52:17] <ds2> n/m
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  • [22:54:17] <mru> -dumpspecs ?
  • [22:54:23] <ds2> found that
  • [22:54:31] <ds2> used to looking at the spec file
  • [22:55:52] <m_billybob> is there an actual gcc channel on this network ?
  • [22:55:58] <m_billybob> havent even looked
  • [22:56:21] <m_billybob> I could stand to learn more abotu the linaro gcc toolchain9s)
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  • [23:00:55] <m_billybob> seems that there is according to google.
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  • [23:24:01] <wmat> tcort: did anything ever come of the uboot issue preventing me from testing your code?
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  • [23:30:19] <tcort> wmat: one of our main Minix/arm guys is away at the moment, but I did get one response when I asked what might be wrong. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/minix3/G_5K1A9k6c4/LUGpfY2oT5MJ
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  • [23:33:33] <tcort> wmat: this is what a normal boot up of Minix looks like on the xM http://pastebin.com/eHfDaFF5
  • [23:33:55] <wmat> tcort: ok, i'll see if I can find some time to think about it later
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  • [23:39:53] <Stormer97> hello!
  • [23:40:06] <Stormer97> Just got my beaglebone black in the mail, but I cant use any USB devices with it
  • [23:40:26] <Stormer97> as in, I plug somthing directly into it, typle lsusb, and it only lists the hub
  • [23:40:34] <Stormer97> I am running it on ubuntu
  • [23:40:44] <Stormer97> is there some type of driver I need to use the USB port?
  • [23:44:34] <Stormer97> NVM, it is an issue with hotplugging
  • [23:44:40] <Stormer97> source: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/beagleboard/uWMNdBv_aPg
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  • [23:44:59] <Stormer97> might want to keep that URL for future refrence ;)
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  • [23:45:55] <ds2> what is the licensing of Minix like thesedays?
  • [23:46:24] <mru> tanenbaum secret license
  • [23:47:02] <ds2> is that a OSL recognized free software license? ;)
  • [23:47:56] <tcort> ds2: BSD-style license http://git.minix3.org/?p=minix.git;a=blob;f=LICENSE;hb=HEAD
  • [23:49:50] <ds2> tcort: does minix use the MMU nowadays?
  • [23:50:12] <tcort> yes
  • [23:52:07] <Wayne__> the short version of my question: can the 6/20 official angstrom for bbb boot without a microsd card after flashing?
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  • [23:53:18] <wmat> tcort: unfortunately, my board is booting from the sdcard, so there's something wrong with your minix image. Have you booted it on a BB-xm?
  • [23:55:27] <tcort> wmat: yes. I'm using a Rev C xM for testing. Do you have another SD card you can test with? The Minix mmc driver only supports cards with CSD version 2.0, but that should give a specific warning if you use an unsupported card.
  • [23:56:16] <wmat> tcort: I do, but I don't think that's the issue
  • [23:56:20] <wmat> tcort: mmc list - lists available devices
  • [23:56:21] <wmat> reading uImage
  • [23:56:21] <wmat> ** Unable to read file uImage **
  • [23:56:21] <wmat> Wrong Image Format for bootm command
  • [23:56:21] <wmat> ERROR: can't get kernel image!
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  • [23:59:24] <tcort> something is definitely wrong, but I don't knoe what / how to fix it. It should say 'mmc list - lists available devices' then 'reading kernel.bin'
  • [23:59:35] <tcort> *know