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  • [00:00:51] <tdill_> Just a re-poke, wondering if anyone here has any experience with crosstool-ng before I head out...
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  • [00:07:18] <ka6sox> mhaberler, can you put that on the elinux.org site as part of the bone doco?
  • [00:08:10] <mhaberler> its on shabbaz' page, thats where I got it from; it is also in https://github.com/jadonk/validation-scripts/tree/master/test-capemgr (reading required ;)
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  • [00:11:19] <shabaz> I've found I have an elinux account now, so I'll add a pointer. Not very familiar with the site, shall I do it at the "Home Site and Community" section? Morgaine on the element14 site added a link there before
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  • [00:12:00] <shabaz> ah, its ok, I've found the Device Tree section there
  • [00:12:07] <shabaz> will update now
  • [00:17:40] <Sy_> For some reason the mikro SD card is not being recognised by my PC anymore, works ok in macbook pro, but in Windows Device Manager just comes up with AM335x USB with an exclamantion mark by it.
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  • [00:21:18] <shabaz> sounds like the windows drivers for the SD card reader are faulty to be honest :-( Maybe unistall the windows driver for the SD card reader, and then install them again. Not a great answer I know :-( Or, maybe confirm the SD card reader is fine by trying a different SD card in there (e.g. from a camera or mobile phone). Until you can get to a stage where you can visibly see the 4 files on there,
  • [00:21:18] <shabaz> no point wasting time trying to flash the board again.
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  • [00:24:16] <ka6sox> shabaz, +1
  • [00:24:21] <Sy_> tried that, just says driver is up to date
  • [00:24:44] <Sy_> recognise's reader ok with no errors, just will not recognise that SD card is inserted
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  • [00:28:55] <Sy_> had enough for one day, ty for help, will try again tomorrow.
  • [00:29:02] <Sy_> *later today
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  • [00:33:46] <mastiff_> Trying to compile systemd-204, but ./ configure experiences error "Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.3.2) were not met: No package 'dbus-1' found." opkg list-installed shows dbus-1 - 1.64, dbus is installed in /usr/local/ and that directory is shown by echo $PATH. What should I check next?
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  • [00:39:57] <ka6sox> mastiff_, what distro?
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  • [00:44:05] <shabaz> goodnight, way past bedtime
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  • [00:48:09] <mastiff_> ka6sox, it's straight out of the box. I also tried opkg update, and opkg upgrade, but problem persists
  • [00:48:33] <mastiff_> Box says Rev A5A
  • [00:50:10] <ka6sox> mastiff_, okay so you are talking about building this on angstrom using OpenEmbedded.
  • [00:50:23] <ka6sox> s/on/for/
  • [00:50:43] * robtow1 (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [00:50:58] <mastiff_> Yes, it's angstrom and I'm assuming that OpenEmbedded is the version of the GCC toolchain?
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  • [00:54:24] <ka6sox> its the framework that includes bitbake
  • [00:55:10] <ka6sox> what guide are you following?
  • [00:56:10] <mastiff_> ok got it,, just read the wiki on bitbake
  • [00:56:21] <ka6sox> kk
  • [00:56:51] <mastiff_> not following a guide, already went through the quick start stuff
  • [00:57:01] <mastiff_> i'm compliling rtl-sdr
  • [00:57:23] <mastiff_> so compiling the dependencies for that
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  • [01:01:19] <windexh8er> ka6sox: I guess I wouldn't say that Angstrom is a source distro.
  • [01:02:03] <windexh8er> ka6sox: And leaving a platform in a state that is unusable by the upgrade facilities without a mechanism to warn users prior to use that facility is rather unpolished.
  • [01:02:23] <windexh8er> ka6sox: But that answers questions of whether to develop on Angstrom as a distribution choice.
  • [01:04:17] <ka6sox> windexh8er, I guess we can fix up the feeds,
  • [01:04:35] <ka6sox> yes, I think we can fix the mechanism by just disabling it for now.
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  • [01:06:59] <mrpackethead> mailed out another 12 BCC boards today
  • [01:07:01] <mrpackethead> not many left
  • [01:07:26] <ka6sox> right now its not in shape but thats mostly I think because things have been in a state of flux.
  • [01:07:37] <mrpackethead> 18 boards left
  • [01:07:50] <mastiff_> can I buy a couple more?
  • [01:07:59] <mrpackethead> mastiff_: of course
  • [01:08:02] <mastiff_> j/k they are great though
  • [01:08:23] <mrpackethead> did you order 1?
  • [01:08:37] <mastiff_> I got two so I could use one mostly for embedded linux, and the other as arduino replacement
  • [01:08:53] <mrpackethead> sorry, are we on the saem page
  • [01:09:00] <mrpackethead> you are talking about a BCC cape?
  • [01:09:06] <ka6sox> ya...
  • [01:09:34] <mastiff_> I'm just talking about the BBB. Which cape?
  • [01:09:39] <mrpackethead> ahh.
  • [01:09:41] <mrpackethead> ok. doh.
  • [01:09:44] <mrpackethead> makes snese
  • [01:09:47] <ka6sox> yup
  • [01:09:54] <mrpackethead> we are talking about the Blank Canvas Cape
  • [01:09:56] <windexh8er> ka6sox: Flux is good - but I think some users may get frustrated early on if they try to follow common directions and end up with a borked board. :)
  • [01:10:11] <mastiff_> is there a link to that?
  • [01:10:33] <mrpackethead> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bcc/index.html
  • [01:10:42] <mrpackethead> i got a batch of pcbs made up
  • [01:10:51] <ka6sox> windexh8er, yes, I'm going to try to get this fixed in the next 2 days
  • [01:10:51] <mrpackethead> and there are some spares left
  • [01:12:17] <mastiff_> Oh that's actually the cape I'd most want. I wanna put a FPGA in between a wideband AFE and the BBB.
  • [01:13:09] * Defiant (erik@e177193037.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [01:13:41] <ka6sox> mastiff_, how wide?
  • [01:14:09] <mastiff_> Give me a sec, I'll pull up a link to the IC I'm looking at.
  • [01:14:12] <mrpackethead> mastiff_: well there you go
  • [01:14:25] <mrpackethead> we have some spare pcbs
  • [01:14:33] <mrpackethead> $14 each + $4 post
  • [01:15:21] <Jazzdude> mrpackethead, where can I order? And do you ship to europe?
  • [01:15:27] <mrpackethead> sure can
  • [01:15:35] <mrpackethead> $4 will cover post to europe
  • [01:15:37] <mastiff_> I'll order one of those please
  • [01:15:42] <mrpackethead> hold a sec
  • [01:15:47] <mrpackethead> i'll find the paypal link
  • [01:15:58] <mastiff_> http://www.ti.com/product/afe7225
  • [01:16:23] <mastiff_> Dual 125MS/s ADC and dual 250MS/s DAC all 12-bit
  • [01:16:44] <ka6sox> I see we have similar interests.
  • [01:16:58] * Defiant (erik@e179192236.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #beagle
  • [01:17:34] <mastiff_> I also like GaN transistors.
  • [01:17:57] <ka6sox> mmmmm
  • [01:19:02] <mastiff_> easy question, how do I copy files onto the SD card, is it in /media/card/ ?
  • [01:19:21] <ka6sox> depends on your system
  • [01:19:31] <mrpackethead> https://www.paypal.com/nz/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=mrcbQsh1ZAStg0NamcecCXDakcSsBaOVbkYx66ZyVWcjMj65o2pRj604Q_m&dispatch=50a222a57771920b6a3d7b606239e4d529b525e0b7e69bf0224adecfb0124e9b61f737ba21b081987dfed5c1e68334a2df49896030ab926d
  • [01:19:32] <ka6sox> or are you talking from a running system?
  • [01:19:36] <mastiff_> default
  • [01:19:41] <mrpackethead> thats the link for the bcc cape
  • [01:19:44] <mrpackethead> sorry
  • [01:20:04] <ka6sox> mastiff_, did you put the SD card in before you booted it?
  • [01:20:09] <mastiff_> No.
  • [01:20:18] <mastiff_> If I do that all the LEDs stay on.
  • [01:20:28] <ka6sox> ORLY?
  • [01:20:35] <m_billybob> uEnv.txt
  • [01:20:37] <m_billybob> ....
  • [01:20:38] <ka6sox> I don't have an A5A, I only have a A4
  • [01:20:41] <mastiff_> like it's trying to boot off the SD, but the SD is blank
  • [01:20:58] <m_billybob> mastiff one second i have a link for you
  • [01:20:58] <ka6sox> sounds like a catch22
  • [01:21:04] <ka6sox> m_billybob,
  • [01:21:04] <mastiff_> I think i read that you're supposed to load the SD after you boot.
  • [01:21:07] <ka6sox> go for it.
  • [01:21:17] <m_billybob> Mastiff, you need a uEnv.xyx file on it
  • [01:21:21] <m_billybob> grrr
  • [01:21:28] <m_billybob> uEnv.txt file
  • [01:21:33] <m_billybob> i have a link for a workign one
  • [01:22:18] <m_billybob> Mastiff, this file can not contain any linefeed
  • [01:22:19] <m_billybob> s
  • [01:22:28] <m_billybob> http://spirilis.net/junk/uEnv.txt wget for the win
  • [01:22:58] * av500 (~vladimir@b2b-46-252-131-98.unitymedia.biz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [01:23:20] <m_billybob> you only need that one file on the sd card then it should boot fro mthe emmc fine
  • [01:23:22] * av500 (~vladimir@b2b-46-252-131-98.unitymedia.biz) has joined #beagle
  • [01:23:25] <mastiff_> so i just need to copy that file onto the SD, and reboot, or do I mount the SD in command line
  • [01:23:52] <m_billybob> not sure if angstrom will automount it or not
  • [01:24:01] <m_billybob> running "mount" once booted should tell all
  • [01:24:04] * thurgood (~thurgood@64.132.24.36) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [01:24:05] <mastiff_> ok I'll try it...
  • [01:24:34] <m_billybob> ka6sox, what ?! you're not expepriencing bbb love yet ?
  • [01:24:43] <m_billybob> experiencing*
  • [01:26:06] <Spirilis> fwiw angstrom won't detect the SD at all if you don't install it *before* booting.
  • [01:26:26] <Spirilis> rather odd imo, but, hotplug seems to be sketchy atm with 3.8
  • [01:26:30] <Spirilis> with this chip anyway
  • [01:26:47] <m_billybob> hotplug is a kernel issue atm
  • [01:26:51] <m_billybob> or so ive read
  • [01:26:54] <m_billybob> with USB too
  • [01:27:06] <Spirilis> you can pop it in and hit the reset button, it'll detect on bootup but naturally you need that uEnv.txt or else it won't boot
  • [01:27:38] <m_billybob> dont know whats up but what you say is in the SRM, i dont need to use the boot button ever
  • [01:27:40] <ka6sox> m_billybob, I an alpha version that is slightly different
  • [01:27:51] <m_billybob> but ive neve rtried booting the emmc with a sdcard in it
  • [01:28:28] <m_billybob> ka6sox, ah i just kind of viewed you (and yeah i dont really know you ) as someone who would have them all ;)
  • [01:29:12] <ka6sox> not yet!, still hoping mine comes soon.
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  • [01:30:08] <m_billybob> wonder if anyone with responcability is ever goign ot do a faq page or something
  • [01:30:35] <mastiff_> mrpackheat: trying to use your paypal link, but it's giving me cookie errors even though they are enabled and I check for the paypal cookie.
  • [01:30:43] <mastiff_> NZ paypal?
  • [01:30:46] <m_billybob> for quick fixes to "simple" things like this
  • [01:31:40] <windexh8er> Has anybody had any interest in doing a HomePlug (Ethernet over Power) cape? I think it's IEEE 1901.
  • [01:31:41] <mastiff_> If your're talking about the SD issue, yeah it would take one paragraph in the Getting Started.
  • [01:33:55] <mrpackethead> ssorry mastiff_
  • [01:33:58] <mrpackethead> might be the wrong link
  • [01:34:01] <mrpackethead> just a second
  • [01:34:08] <mrpackethead> https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=PFPRARLC57NTC
  • [01:34:10] <mrpackethead> try that
  • [01:34:21] <mastiff_> works
  • [01:34:25] <mrpackethead> cool
  • [01:34:33] <mrpackethead> how many do you want
  • [01:34:35] <mrpackethead> just 1?
  • [01:34:44] <ka6sox> m_billybob, what do you mean?
  • [01:34:46] <mastiff_> probably two
  • [01:34:53] <mrpackethead> sure, theres 2
  • [01:34:58] <mrpackethead> i'm just packing them up right now
  • [01:35:04] <mrpackethead> we can ship up to 5 for $4
  • [01:35:09] <mrpackethead> so, its no problme
  • [01:35:12] <mastiff_> you have the BOM and solder gerber to send right?
  • [01:35:34] <mrpackethead> all the details are on erics page
  • [01:35:37] <mastiff_> ok
  • [01:35:42] <mrpackethead> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bcc/index.html
  • [01:35:55] <mrpackethead> i was able to buy everything from Digikey
  • [01:36:05] <mrpackethead> but i had to substitue the osciallator
  • [01:36:23] <mrpackethead> the only difference from erics
  • [01:36:28] <mrpackethead> is that the board is green
  • [01:36:30] <mrpackethead> not purple
  • [01:38:07] <mastiff_> ok, assembly looks very doable
  • [01:38:25] <mrpackethead> yes, i have build one all buy hand
  • [01:38:35] <mrpackethead> just with an iron and solder wire
  • [01:39:03] <mastiff_> thanks for NOT using 0204 parts
  • [01:39:13] <mrpackethead> was'nt me
  • [01:39:15] <mrpackethead> thank eric
  • [01:39:23] <mrpackethead> i'm jsut a begineer with this FPGA stuff as well
  • [01:39:48] <mrpackethead> eric is online ( emeb_mac ) is his handle
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  • [01:39:52] <mastiff_> have you guys seen the Daisho project?
  • [01:40:21] <mrpackethead> are you going to order it now
  • [01:40:25] * robtow (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [01:40:27] <mastiff_> yeah
  • [01:40:31] <mrpackethead> i am just packing up the orders
  • [01:40:37] <emeb_mac> 0204 is too small for hand assy.
  • [01:40:39] <mrpackethead> so, i'll do yours now
  • [01:40:47] <mrpackethead> yes! it is way too small
  • [01:40:58] <emeb_mac> I have been using more 0603 lately tho
  • [01:41:00] <mrpackethead> unless you *really* have to do it
  • [01:41:08] <mrpackethead> we have a desing rule
  • [01:41:12] <mrpackethead> start with 0603
  • [01:41:25] <mrpackethead> and then justify why you need bigger or smaller
  • [01:41:36] <mastiff_> ordered
  • [01:41:57] <mrpackethead> eric, theres going to be a few BCC's floating around shorlty :-)
  • [01:42:10] * bzyx (~quassel@94.232.36.211) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [01:42:21] <emeb_mac> that's a good thing
  • [01:42:33] * bzyx (~quassel@94.232.36.211) has joined #beagle
  • [01:42:59] <emeb_mac> I'm hoping someone figures out the EEPROM setup to get the SPI port going thru DT.
  • [01:43:21] <mrpackethead> Chris, i got your order
  • [01:43:26] * NoProblem (~NoProblem@cpe-184-57-132-151.cinci.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [01:43:33] <mrpackethead> will be nice and warm up your way.
  • [01:43:45] <dwery> mrpackethead: how about an assembled one?
  • [01:45:04] <mrpackethead> dwery.. sadly..
  • [01:45:06] <mrpackethead> no.
  • [01:45:35] <dwery> np
  • [01:45:53] <mrpackethead> its just too much hassle for me
  • [01:45:59] <mrpackethead> we manfaucture electronics
  • [01:46:02] <mrpackethead> and i could
  • [01:46:06] <dwery> I understand, don't worry
  • [01:46:10] <mrpackethead> but it woudl distract too many people from real work
  • [01:46:24] <mastiff_> can it accept external clock?
  • [01:46:50] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-76-105-221-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [01:48:36] <mastiff_> Cool, found the hardware docs.
  • [01:51:22] * Guser (546daf10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.109.175.16) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [01:52:37] <emeb_mac> you can drive an external clock in if you want.
  • [01:53:04] <mastiff_> mrpackethead, it's been cold spring in US,, anyways, I'll be sailing my boat down to NZ and then North from there by this time next year, so these BCC's are actually boat parts
  • [01:53:15] <mastiff_> for radio stuff
  • [01:53:26] <emeb_mac> nice
  • [01:53:34] <emeb_mac> what kind of radio?
  • [01:53:54] <mastiff_> do you know anything about using that FGPA with gnu radio?
  • [01:54:10] <mastiff_> software defined radio
  • [01:54:31] <mranostay> software define all things
  • [01:55:08] <mastiff_> actually I think before you got here, i asked this question I'm trying to solve for compiling rtl-sdr on the BBB
  • [01:55:09] <mastiff_> Trying to compile systemd-204, but ./ configure experiences error "Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.3.2) were not met: No package 'dbus-1' found." opkg list-installed shows dbus-1 - 1.64, dbus is installed in /usr/local/ and that directory is shown by echo $PATH. What should I check next?
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  • [01:55:40] <emeb_mac> mastiff_: I do FPGA-based SDR for my day job. :)
  • [01:55:55] <emeb_mac> but we don't use gnu-radio
  • [01:56:04] <mastiff_> badass! what should I use on a sailboat?
  • [01:56:24] <mastiff_> I'm a ham also
  • [01:56:26] <emeb_mac> depends on what you're trying to do with the radio.
  • [01:56:35] <mastiff_> DX through radar
  • [01:56:37] <emeb_mac> what bands, what modes, etc.
  • [01:56:48] <emeb_mac> that's a lot of range.
  • [01:56:56] <mastiff_> not neccessarily on one device
  • [01:57:00] <mastiff_> but on the boat...
  • [01:57:51] <mastiff_> so far have a Standard Horizons marine radio with AIS, rtl-sdr, and HackRF
  • [01:58:09] * chupacabra (~choops@cpe-66-68-111-24.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [01:59:29] <mastiff_> Do you think the BCC board could be potted for marine purposes, or would there be thermal issues?
  • [02:00:26] * OurMaNdO|W (~ourmando|@97.75.120.81) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [02:00:46] <ka6sox> interesting...
  • [02:00:51] <mrpackethead> woudl i trust my life on it
  • [02:00:52] <mrpackethead> no.
  • [02:01:10] <ka6sox> just put a heatsink on it before you conformal
  • [02:01:50] <ka6sox> more accurately put one on the regulators
  • [02:02:17] <mastiff_> on the FPGA and the voltage regulators?
  • [02:02:18] <ka6sox> mastiff_, sailing from where?
  • [02:02:21] <ka6sox> yes
  • [02:02:36] <mastiff_> Chicago back to Chicago the long way
  • [02:02:53] <ka6sox> northwest passage?
  • [02:03:24] <mastiff_> no, around cape horn, to NZ up to China, back to Panama
  • [02:03:40] <ka6sox> 5yrs before the mast
  • [02:03:49] <mastiff_> !!
  • [02:03:55] <mastiff_> what kind of boat?
  • [02:04:17] <ka6sox> wait till you get to the furious 50's...
  • [02:04:31] <mastiff_> I stayed the winter in my boat
  • [02:04:35] <mastiff_> negative 20
  • [02:04:37] <mastiff_> F
  • [02:04:43] <ka6sox> nothing like this
  • [02:05:04] <ka6sox> what size and Rig?
  • [02:05:44] <mastiff_> I've got a diesel vaporizing stove with a peristaltic pump arduino controlled that fires thermoelectric generators and steam collection
  • [02:05:52] <mastiff_> Pearson Triton
  • [02:05:54] <mastiff_> yawl
  • [02:06:24] <mastiff_> 29 foot boat
  • [02:06:52] <mastiff_> atomvoyages.com is a really famous guy with same boat
  • [02:07:02] <mastiff_> sailed twice around
  • [02:07:53] <ka6sox> I like Yawl rig
  • [02:08:00] <mastiff_> Lots of NZ guys fly to FL buy boats, and sail back.
  • [02:08:26] <ka6sox> BIG main and little spanker
  • [02:09:24] <ka6sox> solo or with help?
  • [02:09:26] <mastiff_> I don't have a kite yet, and just using hank on headsails for now.
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  • [02:10:04] <ka6sox> unless you have help setting a chute is tough
  • [02:10:30] <mastiff_> Mostly solo, sometimes with friends for parts of the trip. Taking my dog also.
  • [02:10:39] <ka6sox> and roller furls is best for solo
  • [02:11:10] <mastiff_> I'm launching the boat soon, have been rebuilding her for about two years.
  • [02:11:16] <ka6sox> kewl
  • [02:11:28] <mastiff_> Sailing around the great lakes for the summer
  • [02:11:40] <ka6sox> I'd hate to be on the foredeck solo in the 50's
  • [02:12:08] <mastiff_> Yeah I wanna be able to press a button to have automatic sail adjustments before that.
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  • [02:12:21] <mastiff_> What about antennas?
  • [02:12:56] <ka6sox> I prefer to resonate the backstay...but SS is a lousy conductor
  • [02:13:21] <ka6sox> with a mizzen that is over the transom that can get "interesting"
  • [02:13:27] <ka6sox> wood or aluminum masts?
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  • [02:14:33] <mastiff_> there's always bronze wire rope
  • [02:14:35] <mastiff_> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-wire-rope/=mx7csn
  • [02:14:42] <mastiff_> it's heavier
  • [02:15:20] <mastiff_> also five times more expensive
  • [02:15:24] <ka6sox> ya
  • [02:15:26] <ka6sox> no kidding
  • [02:15:48] <mastiff_> also the backstay insulators are expensive
  • [02:16:10] <ka6sox> ya,
  • [02:16:31] <ka6sox> so most do a lousy 8' whip with a tuner...pretty sucky
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  • [02:17:55] <mastiff_> you think this TI chip is too fast for the BCC? http://www.ti.com/product/afe7225
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  • [02:19:03] <ka6sox> not for the PRU
  • [02:19:08] <ka6sox> but you would have to work on it.
  • [02:20:18] <ka6sox> I love this marketing schtick...."from baseband to nyquist"
  • [02:20:32] <mastiff_> call them and ask them what it means hehe
  • [02:21:05] <mastiff_> they'll transfer you a couple times
  • [02:21:45] <mastiff_> nice chip for 30USD
  • [02:21:57] <mastiff_> but the EVM costs big $$$$
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  • [02:22:55] <ka6sox> don't they always
  • [02:24:13] <ka6sox> there are other DACs and ADCs that might be easier/cheaper.
  • [02:24:24] <mranostay> ka6sox: so what you know about GPS signals?
  • [02:25:09] <ka6sox> that they are down in the noise (on purpose) when they arrive on earth, that they have several codes that they use, that it takes a DSP to decode them.
  • [02:25:47] <mranostay> ka6sox: yes why is it -30db background noise?
  • [02:25:47] <ka6sox> oh, and that it takes an instant to turn them off and make them dumb as posts.
  • [02:26:12] <ka6sox> "to prevent our enemies from being able to use them"
  • [02:26:12] <mranostay> something with reducing jamming?
  • [02:26:22] <m_billybob> ka6sox, sorry got called of for bbq, just mean it would be good if someone actually took the time to document some of the simple (magic hand waving technique) issues on circuitco or possibly somewhere else
  • [02:26:50] <ka6sox> m_billybob, elinux.org/beaglebone
  • [02:26:55] <ka6sox> thats where all this goes
  • [02:26:56] <mranostay> ka6sox: how is that?
  • [02:27:07] <ka6sox> mranostay, remember when it was designed....
  • [02:27:11] <m_billybob> yeah or io may make my own blog and document whatever i know to be right
  • [02:27:29] <ka6sox> m_billybob, best not to fracture things anymore.
  • [02:27:37] <ka6sox> lets try to centralize things in 1 place.
  • [02:27:50] <m_billybob> can link back to whatever all i need ;)
  • [02:27:59] <ka6sox> they already have an extensive set of documents for beagle* related things.
  • [02:28:12] <ka6sox> but the main doco should be there...
  • [02:28:17] <ka6sox> "reference"
  • [02:29:04] <mranostay> ka6sox: so it is a 80's legacy thing?
  • [02:29:31] <mastiff_> random unrelated comment: Radio Shack is selling arduino shields that have the wrong pin pitch, it's ridiculous.
  • [02:30:13] <ka6sox> mranostay, they watched Independence Day too....
  • [02:30:15] <m_billybob> [19:28] <m_billybob> also seems ot be a very nice perso ntoo
  • [02:30:15] <m_billybob> [19:29] * Disconnected
  • [02:30:23] <m_billybob> sorry anyhow bbiab got company
  • [02:30:35] <ka6sox> laters m_billybob
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  • [02:33:30] <kelvinji> ping
  • [02:34:05] <ka6sox> mini-pong
  • [02:34:19] <mastiff_> any idea on this one?
  • [02:34:23] <mastiff_> Trying to compile systemd-204, but ./ configure experiences error "Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.3.2) were not met: No package 'dbus-1' found." opkg list-installed shows dbus-1 - 1.64, dbus is installed in /usr/local/ and that directory is shown by echo $PATH. What should I check next?
  • [02:34:40] <kelvinji> On my customized board , the MLO code will block in gpmc_init()
  • [02:34:47] <kelvinji> writel(0x00000008, &gpmc_cfg->sysconfig);
  • [02:35:03] <kelvinji> SPL can't go ahead...
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  • [02:35:39] <ka6sox> mastiff_, when I get back from dinner I'll try that
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  • [02:35:59] <mastiff_> ok,, i'll be around
  • [02:37:12] <ka6sox> kelvinji, dunno about that..if you dont' get an answer here the try the ML/forum/googlegroups
  • [02:38:18] <ka6sox> okay heading out
  • [02:38:22] * ka6sox is now known as ka6sox-away
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  • [03:12:01] <breakk> I am thinking of running ArchLinuxARM-am33x on qemu as a dev platform. I would like to make sure everything i need can compile.
  • [03:12:08] <breakk> Does that sound right?
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  • [03:30:58] <mastiff_> Trying to compile systemd-204, but ./ configure experiences error "Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.3.2) were not met: No package 'dbus-1' found." opkg list-installed shows dbus-1 - 1.64, dbus is installed in /usr/local/ and that directory is shown by echo $PATH. What should I check next?
  • [03:34:14] <thurgood> configure often looks for the dev packages, not simply the binaries
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  • [03:37:57] <mastiff_> double checking, but I think a dev package is their, but maybe something is missing or corrupted, i'll take another look
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  • [04:03:31] <mastiff_> thurgood, I see dbus-1 dbus-systemd
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  • [04:05:25] <pranjal> Is it possible to access the host DRAM from the PRU subsystem?
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  • [04:17:03] <thurgood> mastiff_: the dev packages contain headers for using the libraries
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  • [05:03:23] <mastiff_> hey that's great the dbus-dev solved the ./configure issue, it's building now
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  • [05:31:29] <bnode> hello
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  • [05:32:30] <bnode> curious about the wifi adaptor
  • [05:32:42] <bnode> is it an easy setup
  • [05:33:32] <bnode> l8ter
  • [05:33:50] <dm8tbr> patience is a virtue
  • [05:34:00] <av500> patience is virtual
  • [05:34:46] <dm8tbr> and can be found under Applications ??? Games ??? AisleRiot
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  • [05:37:16] <av500> solitaire.exe
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  • [06:26:55] <RagBal> Has anbody got Ubuntu core to work on BeagleBone? I can't seem to get the network interface to work after booting
  • [06:28:37] <panto> gm
  • [06:29:22] <KotH> JIHAD!
  • [06:31:05] <ka6sox-away> morning!
  • [06:31:23] <emeb_mac> there he goes again
  • [06:32:20] * KotH throws a bag at emeb_mac
  • [06:32:25] <mranostay> gah bars suck
  • [06:32:33] <KotH> mranostay: switch bars
  • [06:32:58] <av500> or try foos
  • [06:33:00] <emeb_mac> stop going to gah bars
  • [06:33:24] <mranostay> that is one typo asking to be done..
  • [06:34:14] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-178-006-252-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
  • [06:34:25] <av500> go to ack bars
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  • [06:37:17] <panto> go home mranostay, you're drunk
  • [06:38:55] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [06:39:14] <mranostay> i am home
  • [06:39:18] <mranostay> not drunk
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  • [06:39:49] <KotH> so, your home is a gah bar?
  • [06:40:22] <mranostay> no i walk home from the gah bar
  • [06:40:44] <KotH> why were you in the gah bar in the first place?
  • [06:42:17] <mranostay> because i like drinking, duh? :)
  • [06:43:02] <av500> kids these days...
  • [06:43:25] <panto> is that like a whiskey bar?
  • [06:45:11] * mnt_real (~mnt_real@bas1-montreal19-1177820656.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [06:47:45] <mranostay> i live in the 'university district' so a few bars around
  • [06:49:07] * vvu (~quassel@firewallix.jacobs-university.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [06:49:29] <mranostay> KotH: i do like meeting people in small amounts too
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  • [06:50:09] <Littledog_> hi, i just notice it have 2013-05-20 angstrom release for beglebone black.
  • [06:50:17] <Littledog_> is it fix the usb hot plug problem?
  • [06:50:33] <ka6sox-away> Littledog_, not that I've heard.
  • [06:50:41] <mhaberler> DT design check question: does this make sense? http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-board_computers/next-gen_beaglebone/blog/2013/05/22/bbb--working-with-the-pru-icssprussv2#comment-22620
  • [06:50:53] <Littledog_> thankyou ka6sox.
  • [06:52:26] <Littledog_> And can I upgrade my existing angstrom with opkg update/upgrade?
  • [06:52:40] <mranostay> one does not simply...
  • [06:52:41] <panto> mhaberler, your scheme is very scary (re: mmaping gpios to user-space) but it should work
  • [06:53:07] <mranostay> panto: sounds like drugs are involved there
  • [06:53:14] <mhaberler> the boundary conditions I cannot change unfortunately..
  • [06:53:20] <panto> I don't like the arbitrary mmap of the gpio register space
  • [06:53:28] <ka6sox-away> panto, +1
  • [06:54:17] <mhaberler> if you find a way to do I/O from Xenomai RT threads without it, I'd be interested - but chances are next to 0
  • [06:54:32] * fredp2 (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) has joined #beagle
  • [06:54:38] <panto> what kind of I/O do you need?
  • [06:54:44] <ka6sox-away> Littledog_, the *only* way currently is to download the flasher for 5.20 and use that
  • [06:54:50] <av500> if "system" calls are not allowed, having a "system" is kinda moot
  • [06:55:00] <ka6sox-away> otherwise it overflows the eMMC.
  • [06:55:34] <mhaberler> there are basically two flavors: direct GPIO pin manipualtion through a userland .so based driver, and GPIO wiggling by a driver which loads and runs PRU code
  • [06:55:36] * fredp2 (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) has left #beagle
  • [06:55:42] <Littledog_> hmm. ok. thank you ka6sox.
  • [06:55:48] <mhaberler> those need to be coordinated
  • [06:56:04] <ka6sox-away> Littledog_, after 5.20 you should be able to use the normal opkg upgrade
  • [06:56:36] <mhaberler> then there's random adc and spi stuff, but thats secondary atm
  • [06:56:47] <ka6sox-away> till it blows up
  • [06:57:23] <ka6sox-away> mhaberler, if you are using the PRUs then why the Xenomai too?
  • [06:57:34] <mhaberler> it isnt either-or
  • [06:57:36] <panto> mhaberler, why not have an API to have the PRU code to do the direct GPIO?
  • [06:57:47] <panto> the PRU can access the GPIO register
  • [06:57:51] <panto> *registers
  • [06:57:52] <ka6sox-away> panto,+1
  • [06:58:18] <ka6sox-away> Pins cannot serve 2 masters.
  • [06:58:21] <mhaberler> because there's no point in doing so in the extra indirection step - NB the PRU can access only a subset to star with
  • [06:58:30] <panto> err, no
  • [06:58:32] <mhaberler> well sure, thats what the coordination is about
  • [06:58:49] <panto> the PRU can access the 'fast' GPI/GPOs
  • [06:58:59] <mhaberler> to avoid exactly that by checking for config errors
  • [06:59:00] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [06:59:01] <panto> but it can also access the normal GPIOs via the master port
  • [06:59:02] <ka6sox-away> and the slow ones...via L3
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  • [06:59:44] <ka6sox-away> slow is still 25mhz
  • [06:59:48] <mhaberler> that I know, but it does not get you around coordination if different pins are driven by different code segments
  • [07:00:09] <panto> my point is that sure, you can do it via user-space
  • [07:00:25] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [07:01:00] <panto> if you already have your application structured that way, well, it's painful to go to a different method
  • [07:01:27] <mhaberler> that is a fixed boundary condition, and nothing reasonably easy I can do about it
  • [07:01:28] <ka6sox-away> just don't give that access to the eMMC pins if you are using that for your rootfs.
  • [07:01:45] <mhaberler> well that is one of the reasons for coordination, yes...
  • [07:01:51] <panto> well, it will work - for now
  • [07:01:57] <panto> but there be dragons
  • [07:02:07] <ka6sox-away> right, till somethign changes and the whole house of cards comes down.
  • [07:02:43] <ka6sox-away> if you control ALL the conditions then you are safe..if someone can change *anything* you are in trouble.
  • [07:03:12] <mhaberler> life is dangerous in general..
  • [07:03:27] <panto> as long as you understand the risks, go for it
  • [07:03:49] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [07:03:50] <ka6sox-away> there are 2 pins (4 balls) that are very scary on a BB*
  • [07:04:05] <panto> ugh, that reminds me...
  • [07:04:12] <mhaberler> how stable do you guys rate the whole cape/capemanager idea? it is a bit fixated on a certain hardware concept; basically what I am shooting for is a soft-cape capability
  • [07:04:43] <ka6sox-away> mhaberler, what would that look like?
  • [07:04:46] <mhaberler> soft-cape translates into runtime pinset definition, not eeprom/dts edit time
  • [07:04:56] <ka6sox-away> just NO
  • [07:05:00] <ka6sox-away> please NO
  • [07:05:10] <ka6sox-away> pins can't serve 2 masters.
  • [07:05:17] <mhaberler> and who said that?
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  • [07:05:27] <ka6sox-away> dtbo
  • [07:05:30] <ka6sox-away> thats what they are for
  • [07:05:49] <ka6sox-away> load em manually with capemanager
  • [07:06:16] <mhaberler> maybe I didnt explain it properly, but that is exactly what I am planning to do - use the dts/dtbo/capemanager vehicle to assure separation
  • [07:06:35] <ka6sox-away> panto, does unload work?
  • [07:06:42] <mhaberler> yes it worked for me
  • [07:06:44] <panto> unload works
  • [07:06:44] <ka6sox-away> ( I haven't tried admittedly)
  • [07:06:54] <panto> if you use sane drivers
  • [07:06:57] <mhaberler> echo -$SLOTNUMBER >$SLOTS
  • [07:07:08] <panto> if you use any of the hwmod OMAP drivers it blows up
  • [07:07:25] <ka6sox-away> so the DRM driver unloading would blow up?
  • [07:07:27] <panto> cause no-one has ever tried unloading an OMAP driver
  • [07:07:40] <panto> it's not a problem of the driver
  • [07:07:50] <panto> it's a problem of the hwmod OMAP stuff
  • [07:08:08] <panto> we'll see what goes on with 3.10/3.11 and if it was fixed
  • [07:08:10] <ka6sox-away> joel_, thinks that is not likely to be changed.
  • [07:08:20] <panto> there are discussion about killing hwmod completely
  • [07:08:23] <panto> *discussions
  • [07:08:57] <av500> all this violence
  • [07:08:59] <av500> killing
  • [07:09:11] <ka6sox-away> av500, sorry...happens.
  • [07:09:15] <mhaberler> this is why I asked about the expected stability of the capemanager idea.. if anything breaks my scheme, its changes there
  • [07:09:56] <ka6sox-away> soft-capes is an Idea I'd like to explore...as people are asking for a 1W on a particular pin that is available.
  • [07:10:09] <panto> wut? 1W?
  • [07:10:17] <av500> 1-Wire
  • [07:10:24] <panto> still 1W?
  • [07:10:25] <ka6sox-away> sorry W1
  • [07:10:29] <panto> ah
  • [07:10:31] <panto> OK :)
  • [07:10:32] <av500> ?
  • [07:10:43] <panto> well, yeah - 1 wire works
  • [07:10:48] <panto> the weather cape uses it
  • [07:11:03] <ka6sox-away> but the guy wants to use a *different* pin
  • [07:11:18] <ka6sox-away> so currently thats a PITA
  • [07:11:45] <mhaberler> I think the concept needs firming up a bit, so everybody is on the same page; the way I view it - it is a set of pins/pinmux settings/possibly other resources tied to an entity, where 'entity' does not necessarily translate into 'kernel driver'
  • [07:11:49] <ka6sox-away> Ideally I'd like to create a dtbo that calls the w1 driver and attaches it to the proper pin wiht th right mux
  • [07:11:58] <mhaberler> amn
  • [07:11:59] <mhaberler> amen
  • [07:12:20] <panto> mhaberler, I will try to find some time writing about what the capemgr does, and how DT works, and all that stuff
  • [07:12:42] <mhaberler> that'd be most helpful; did you write the kernel part?
  • [07:13:21] <panto> yes
  • [07:14:03] <mhaberler> btw if anybody needs it, I have a Xenomai kernel based on 3.8.13-bone19 running fine
  • [07:14:21] <panto> mhaberler, sure
  • [07:14:42] <panto> if you have a patchset, put it someplace where either me, or koen can take a look
  • [07:15:17] <panto> usually we don't have a problem adding patches to the repo (but normally we don't apply them until we've test them)
  • [07:15:23] <mhaberler> It will wind up in the next Xenomai release; the patchset isnt mine but it will go its path
  • [07:15:43] <panto> cool
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  • [07:22:08] <mhaberler> pardon me for the clueless question, but I'll try anyway: is there an API a certain kernel driver can check against what the .dtbo describes? (I would need the userland version of that API. No you dont have to write it today ;)
  • [07:22:37] <panto> err, what do you mean?
  • [07:23:05] <mhaberler> the .dtbo describes a pinset and muxing, and sets up the latter, thats how I understand it
  • [07:23:27] <ka6sox-away> more than that
  • [07:23:51] <mhaberler> how would the driver figure what was described in the .dtbo?
  • [07:24:12] <ka6sox-away> becuase the driver is *configured* in the dtbo
  • [07:24:13] <panto> which driver?
  • [07:24:14] * anshu (~arivendu@27.251.78.82) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [07:24:33] <panto> the whole point of the capemgr is to not have to modify the driver at all
  • [07:24:33] <ka6sox-away> (depending on which it is)
  • [07:24:39] <mhaberler> that's the point; the scheme is married to a kernel driver concept
  • [07:24:49] <panto> mhaberler, no
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  • [07:25:08] <panto> you can modify the running DT without causing any driver to load
  • [07:25:27] <mhaberler> can you refer me to an API for that?
  • [07:25:51] <panto> I still don't understand what you want to do
  • [07:25:56] <panto> you have to explain it to me first
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  • [07:26:37] <koen> DT is a hardware description
  • [07:26:44] <koen> linux can choose to load it
  • [07:26:47] <koen> u-boot can load it
  • [07:26:53] <koen> minix could load it
  • [07:26:55] <koen> etc
  • [07:26:57] <mhaberler> well as outlined, my requirement is to separate userland entities to keep them from trampling on each others pin assignments/muxing; it would not involve any kernel drivers
  • [07:27:18] <mhaberler> that leads to the question how a userland entity can inspect what is in a .dtbo
  • [07:27:20] <panto> you can always parse the /proc/device-tree
  • [07:27:29] <panto> directory, it's user-readable
  • [07:27:51] <mrpackethead> what are you grumpys up to
  • [07:28:10] <ka6sox-away> mrpackethead, class is in session...and we are listening...
  • [07:28:25] <mhaberler> /proc/device-tree is a representation of the kernel-loaded DT?
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  • [07:28:40] <mrpackethead> guess we better figured out some interesting projects for those FPGA
  • [07:28:55] <panto> mhaberler, yes
  • [07:28:57] <mhaberler> as the name would suggest...
  • [07:29:06] <mhaberler> bingo, that is what I was looking for
  • [07:29:11] * pranjal (12bd69cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.189.105.207) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [07:29:15] <mhaberler> very well
  • [07:29:16] <panto> note, it's properties are binaries
  • [07:29:27] <panto> and there's no type information
  • [07:29:39] <panto> so be careful how you read it
  • [07:29:53] <panto> (not that you could break something, but, be careful)
  • [07:30:04] <panto> also, there are talks about moving it to /sys
  • [07:30:16] <ka6sox-away> isn't proc RO
  • [07:30:21] <panto> yes
  • [07:30:51] <mhaberler> which part of the kernel exports that, capemanager?
  • [07:31:17] <panto> no, it's core DT
  • [07:31:24] <mhaberler> ah
  • [07:31:29] <panto> or OF, depending on the phase of the moon
  • [07:32:19] <mhaberler> 'OF' ?
  • [07:33:06] <ka6sox-away> I think that means OpenFirmware
  • [07:33:44] <mhaberler> anyway, will read up on it - thanks!
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  • [08:18:24] <kelvinji> HI all, i am using AM3352 , spl blocked on writel(0x00000008, &gpmc_cfg->sysconfig);
  • [08:18:48] <kelvinji> Does anyone know why this happen?
  • [08:18:57] * Sy_ (50b1775a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.177.119.90) has joined #beagle
  • [08:19:14] <kelvinji> The board can't boot now
  • [08:19:40] <Sy_> hi, I'm having big problems with BeagleBone Black boards....since yesterday, I was using Angstrom, updates the packages now they are both bricks
  • [08:20:13] <Sy_> I've tried creating an image on SD card, but for some reason Windows 7 isn't recognising my SD card, Mac OSX sees card ok.
  • [08:20:47] <dm8tbr> Sy_: just write the latest image from beagleboard.org to your card
  • [08:20:53] <Jazzdude> Sy_, have you tried rewriting the sd card with the angstrom eMMC image?
  • [08:21:09] <Jazzdude> on the mac you can just unzip the archive and dd the image onto the disk
  • [08:21:12] <Jazzdude> or card
  • [08:21:14] <Sy_> trying....but so far I can't get the image written to the SD card
  • [08:21:22] * rbarris (~rbarris@ip68-4-252-214.oc.oc.cox.net) Quit (Quit: rbarris)
  • [08:21:24] <Jazzdude> what goes wrong?
  • [08:21:25] <Sy_> sorry, how ?
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  • [08:23:34] <Jazzdude> what have you accomplished so far?
  • [08:23:40] <Jazzdude> did you download the image?
  • [08:23:44] <Jazzdude> uncompress it?
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  • [08:25:53] <Sy_> I have the image, img file in a folder
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  • [08:26:15] <Sy_> I have the SD-card in a mac book pro running osx lion
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  • [08:26:41] <Jazzdude> ok, then you need to find out the device that the card corrsponds to
  • [08:26:44] <Jazzdude> diskutil list
  • [08:26:51] <Sy_> not sure how I get the BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.05.20.img onto sd card
  • [08:27:05] <Jazzdude> that gives you a list of the mounted/active devices
  • [08:27:28] <Jazzdude> identify the device name of your card. Something like /dev/diskN, where N is a numher
  • [08:27:31] <Jazzdude> *number even
  • [08:27:43] <Sy_> done
  • [08:27:45] <kelvinji> my bootloader-spl blocked in this:writel(0x00000008, &gpmc_cfg->sysconfig);
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  • [08:27:53] <Jazzdude> then unmount the device, using "diskutil unmountDisk /dev/diskN"
  • [08:27:54] <kelvinji> Any idea?
  • [08:28:26] <joel_> blocked?
  • [08:28:46] <Sy_> Unmount of all volumes on disk1 was successful
  • [08:29:04] <kelvinji> yes
  • [08:29:09] <Jazzdude> ok, then you can start transferring
  • [08:29:15] <kelvinji> can't go ahead
  • [08:29:21] <Sy_> how?
  • [08:29:23] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [08:29:47] <Jazzdude> "sudo dd if=/path/to/imagefile.img of=/dev/diskN bs=1m"
  • [08:29:52] <Jazzdude> that will take a while
  • [08:30:25] <Jazzdude> when it has finished you can eject the disk, using diskutil eject /dev/diskN
  • [08:31:11] * f11f12 (~f11f12@213.246.201.50) Quit (Quit: ziiiip)
  • [08:31:32] <Jazzdude> put in into you BBB (powered down) with an external PSU and no USB connection. Hold the boot button (the one near the larger USB port) and turn the BB on
  • [08:31:44] <Jazzdude> it will then boot from the SD card
  • [08:31:56] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: emeb_mac)
  • [08:32:26] <Sy_> thank you, waiting for dd to complete
  • [08:32:32] <Jazzdude> if you have downloaded the eMMC flasher image it will take about 45 minutes to flash the internal memory. During that time the leds will blink. Wait until all 4 are constantly lit, then power the device down and remove the sd card
  • [08:33:08] * Russ (foobar@pool-173-60-222-174.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [08:33:32] <Sy_> how long should it take to transfer the image to the sd card ?
  • [08:33:55] <Jazzdude> that depends on a few unknown factors, like card speed
  • [08:34:05] <Jazzdude> but in general somewhere between 10 and 60 minutes
  • [08:34:08] <Sy_> approx ?
  • [08:34:24] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [08:35:27] <janne_> PaulePanter: sure, saw it just now
  • [08:36:43] <Sy_> still hasn't come back yet
  • [08:36:50] <PaulePanter> janne_: Do you also have just the BeagleBone?
  • [08:36:52] <Sy_> still performing dd
  • [08:37:04] <joel_> ka6sox-away: thinks not likely to change? hwmod is shrinking and the future is to move out of mach-omap2 as much as possible
  • [08:37:05] <PaulePanter> janne_: ??? and not BeagleBone Black?
  • [08:37:53] <janne_> I have no beaglebone white
  • [08:38:04] <joel_> ka6sox-away: too much churn on mach-omap, more hwmod is the last thing we need :)
  • [08:38:27] <joel_> bbt, gn
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  • [08:39:12] <PaulePanter> janne_: Thanks again. I talked to the Googlers and as they are going to head home tomorrow, it is not needed anymore. Sorry for the noise.
  • [08:39:12] <Jazzdude> Sy_, just be patiented. It can take another 20 minutes or longer
  • [08:39:18] <Jazzdude> don't interrupt it
  • [08:40:18] <PaulePanter> They asked for code review of http://review.coreboot.org/#/c/3279/ and testing though.
  • [08:40:46] <Sy_> ok, is there anyway to determine the status of the operation?
  • [08:42:58] <KotH> mranostay: meeting people in small amounts? one arm, one leg at the time?
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  • [08:46:17] <janne_> PaulePanter: ok, no problem
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  • [08:48:36] <bart416> Has anybody ever run tests on how quick the GPIO of the beaglebone black is?
  • [08:48:58] <av500> is you use the PRU, up to 200MHZ
  • [08:49:33] <bart416> And if you don't?
  • [08:50:07] <KotH> potentially slower
  • [08:50:16] <dm8tbr> much much slower
  • [08:50:40] <bart416> Yeah, I figured as much considering my experiences with ARM processors dm8tbr.
  • [08:50:43] <bart416> Hence why I inquire about it.
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  • [08:51:20] <bart416> I need something capable of pulling data at a rate of 60 MSa/s from an ADC for short bursts.
  • [08:51:28] * manu is now known as Guest61101
  • [08:51:40] <KotH> what interface?
  • [08:51:52] * Guest61101 (4f200528@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.32.5.40) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [08:51:53] <KotH> i guess it isnt i2c anymore
  • [08:52:00] <bart416> Nah, parallel lines
  • [08:52:04] <narcos> Hi all. As my Bone was booting I accidentally removed the SD card (well, I picked up the board and pushed in the card, thus spring releasing it). I then powered it off, and on again 10 seconds later. Now, it's not booting.
  • [08:52:04] * anshu (~arivendu@27.251.78.82) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [08:52:14] <KotH> use fpga, do memory map of data
  • [08:52:23] <Sy_> still hasn't come back
  • [08:52:32] <Sy_> waiting on dd to complete
  • [08:52:36] <narcos> I have Ubuntu 12.10 on it. And when I connect to the serial console (which I haven't done before) I see the following: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xhV531JM
  • [08:53:51] <KotH> narcos: i would guess that it's fsck'ing
  • [08:54:22] <Sy_> I would like to get mysql server running on BBB, has anyone got this working?
  • [08:54:27] <Sy_> with Angstrom?
  • [08:54:38] <KotH> Sy_: 1) install myslq server
  • [08:54:45] <KotH> Sy_: 2) configure mysql server
  • [08:54:50] <KotH> Sy_: 3) ...
  • [08:54:55] <KotH> Sy_: 4) profit
  • [08:54:59] <bart416> KotH, well that introduces the problem of transfering data from the FPGA to the wireless interface >_<
  • [08:55:07] <bart416> I tried (and failed)
  • [08:55:41] <KotH> bart416: well.. you need to convert the data stream into something the AM33359 can easily handle. parallel interfaces do not fall into this category
  • [08:55:43] <Sy_> @kotH, I tried this yesterday before the problems, whilst mysql did install using opkg mysql5, the service wouldn't run
  • [08:55:44] <kfoltman> Guys, I have this USB audio interface that somehow doesn't want to work with BBB, what do I do? I'm trying to use it via libusb, and changing the alternative setting on an interface is probably the first thing that fails. Any further steps to try? (tried usbmon, but I think I'm only seeing a control packet setting altsetting going out, and EPROTO reported as status of the "response")
  • [08:55:53] <bart416> KotH, is it better at differential input?
  • [08:55:57] <KotH> bart416: and since when are adc connected wireless?
  • [08:56:11] <narcos> KotH: Ah ok. I'd just gotten a new PSU from a friend to try (after last night's debacle)
  • [08:56:30] <bart416> Since the data it's sampling would take half a minute to process on an embedded device.
  • [08:56:42] <av500> KotH: parallel interface on GPMC
  • [08:56:49] <KotH> bart416: what are you trying to acheive?
  • [08:57:20] <bart416> I'm building a radar for a drone/rc ship.
  • [08:57:58] <KotH> av500: exactly. that's why i proposed the fpga solution
  • [08:58:19] <bart416> Regular cameras are too dodgy for this. But FMCW with good resolution is troublesome if you don't do some serious oversampling I've noticed.
  • [08:58:45] <kfoltman> Koth: to convert the $ARBITRARY_PARALLEL_INTERFACE to GPMC and then talk GPMC to BBB?
  • [08:58:57] <av500> GPMC is parallel already
  • [08:59:31] <av500> 16 bit or so
  • [08:59:44] <kfoltman> av500: but it may have a different protocol/number of bits/whatever than bart416's ADC I suppose?
  • [08:59:52] <av500> so?
  • [08:59:55] <bart416> kfoltman, I'll just switch ADC.
  • [08:59:55] <KotH> Sy_: you have a mysql problem then, not a beagle problem
  • [08:59:56] <av500> have a look, compare
  • [08:59:57] <bart416> That's not a big problem.
  • [08:59:58] <av500> etc..
  • [09:00:13] <av500> I guess all the ADC needs is a /RD signal
  • [09:00:17] <KotH> bart416: go fpga, it's probably the simplest solution
  • [09:00:22] <av500> I trsut GPMC can create that
  • [09:00:34] <bart416> Guess I could have the FPGA buffer the data and then read it out with whatever and just transfer it.
  • [09:00:37] <KotH> bart416: using an fpga you can also preprocess and reduce the amount of data to be transfered
  • [09:00:50] <bart416> Well yes, I could do the FFT on the FPGA already;
  • [09:01:03] <KotH> av500: adc interfaces do not match memory interfaces well
  • [09:01:12] <av500> its not a memory interface
  • [09:01:14] <av500> its GP
  • [09:01:17] <av500> General Purpose
  • [09:01:43] <KotH> then i misread the docu ^^'
  • [09:01:50] <KotH> bart416: what av500 says!
  • [09:01:55] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [09:01:56] <av500> at least you read it :)
  • [09:02:03] <av500> or made yourself sound like you did
  • [09:02:05] <av500> sneaky
  • [09:02:19] <Sy_> The mySQL package is the package thats available via opkg list, I've set-up on many platforms, why would it be a mySQL issue?
  • [09:02:26] <KotH> .o0(damn, av500 is onto me!)
  • [09:03:14] * Rexx is now known as RexxC
  • [09:03:28] <bart416> av500, you'd expect the GPIO speed to be in the datasheet as well :P
  • [09:03:44] <av500> no
  • [09:03:55] <av500> thats a hard problem :)
  • [09:04:09] <bart416> Well yes, but at least a general idea of it.
  • [09:04:10] * astralab (~astralab@d192-24-207-72.col.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [09:04:33] <bart416> Doesn't have to be good, a rough estimate would be nice.
  • [09:04:53] <av500> not 60MHz
  • [09:05:00] <av500> unless you use the PRU
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  • [09:05:27] <KotH> no chip manufacturer will put an estimate into their datasheet...because they would be held reliable if someone cannot acheive that "spec"
  • [09:06:09] <bart416> Or you could pull a Maxim and put notices on it that you don't ensure the part will achieve that speed >_>
  • [09:06:34] <av500> no, Maxim will not even ensure the part exists
  • [09:07:02] <KotH> bart416: listen to av500, for he is knowledgable and wise
  • [09:07:04] <bart416> Never had that, did have them send me a totally different chip that sort of did the same thing once.
  • [09:07:19] <bart416> Anyway, the FPGA it will be. Don't feel like messing with that GPMC interface by the first looks of it and the FPGA can do the FFT quickly.
  • [09:07:46] <narcos> If the Bone doesn't have a MicroSD in it, will it boot in any way?
  • [09:07:49] <KotH> .o0(fft's used to be the holy grail of VLSI)
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  • [09:08:07] <av500> narcos: emmc
  • [09:08:14] <av500> if there is something bootable in there
  • [09:08:43] <narcos> av500: I don't think I'd have modified that. And I'd see output via a serial connection?
  • [09:08:56] <av500> you would
  • [09:09:04] <bart416> Only problem with FFTs on FPGAs is that you have to be a bit careful with multiplier assignments.
  • [09:09:07] <av500> if the code has serial output
  • [09:09:18] <av500> bart416: how would you talk to the fpga?
  • [09:09:21] <bart416> If you don't you'll quickly run out of logic blocks.
  • [09:09:30] <bart416> Well the FPGA can buffer the data in its dual port ram.
  • [09:09:39] <bart416> Then I can read it out at a lower speed.
  • [09:09:52] <kfoltman> or at least a higher latency ;)
  • [09:10:29] <bart416> I'm looking at one update every 10 seconds kfoltman. Latency is the least of my worries.
  • [09:10:41] <bart416> That 10 GHz PLL on the other hand...
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  • [09:11:26] <KotH> 10GHz is easy, these days
  • [09:11:54] <bart416> Mhhh, sure.
  • [09:11:56] <narcos> av500: Would the default baud be 115200?
  • [09:12:04] <av500> narcos: I guess so
  • [09:12:05] <bart416> But that doesn't account for the crappy quality of Chinese PCBs.
  • [09:12:12] <narcos> Hm, not seeing anything.
  • [09:12:21] <av500> then maybe there is nothing
  • [09:12:35] <narcos> Cooould be. Damn.
  • [09:13:17] <bart416> The problem with 10 GHz is actually how to verify if it's working without a spectrum analyser that goes up that high.
  • [09:13:22] * tzafrir (~tzafrir@local.xorcom.com) has joined #beagle
  • [09:13:32] <av500> see if your food gets warm
  • [09:13:34] <av500> easy
  • [09:13:39] <kfoltman> bart416: bandpass filter, decimate, analyze?
  • [09:13:59] <bart416> Well yes, that's what I thought as well.
  • [09:14:12] <bart416> But that gives horrible frequency resolution.
  • [09:15:21] <kfoltman> (the "decimate" part might be the hard part at 10 GHz though?)
  • [09:15:25] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [09:15:31] <bart416> Down mixing isn't really that difficult.
  • [09:15:37] <dm8tbr> 10GHz? just use a LNB
  • [09:15:49] <dm8tbr> off the shelve part for 10EUR
  • [09:15:58] <dm8tbr> ofc not super high quality...
  • [09:16:09] <bart416> Ideally you'd use a Gunnplexer
  • [09:16:11] <dm8tbr> mixes down nicely to around 1GHz
  • [09:16:32] * av500 would use a multipretzler
  • [09:16:39] <dm8tbr> that stuff is easy enough to source and usually not thaaat expensive
  • [09:16:52] <Sy_> MikroSD card now in beaglebone, boot switch held in whilst powering up, LED's flickering, will leave and hope for the best
  • [09:16:53] <bart416> But yeah, still no spectrum analyser.
  • [09:17:07] <av500> Sy_: hope dies last
  • [09:17:07] <bart416> I have to bring it down into the range of a fairly cheap DSO and then use the FFT on that one.
  • [09:17:41] <Sy_> what do u mean av500?
  • [09:18:25] <bart416> Don't need to explain that DSOs aren't made for this sort of thing.
  • [09:18:30] <KotH> bart416: what do you want to measure with the spectrum analyser?
  • [09:18:45] <KotH> bart416: there are DSOs that go up to 10GHz
  • [09:18:46] <bart416> The output of the VCO of the PLL.
  • [09:18:53] <KotH> bart416: what of it?
  • [09:18:54] <bart416> Well sure, but do you have one at home?
  • [09:19:10] <bart416> Well, if you build a VCO it tends to be important that it actually works.
  • [09:19:10] <KotH> its frequency? its wander? its spectrum?
  • [09:19:16] <bart416> Spectrum obviously
  • [09:19:26] <KotH> well..then the lnb aproach will do
  • [09:19:36] <KotH> it mixes down the whole spectrum, as you need it
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  • [09:20:02] <Sy_> I want to avoid this happening again, whats the advice regarding patching?
  • [09:20:37] <bart416> If I use a LNB I could just as well use a Gunnplexer.
  • [09:21:03] <bart416> The advantage being that the latter works both ways.
  • [09:21:22] <narcos> KotH: Hm, I took the microsd out, and fsck'd it from my laptop, sems all fine.
  • [09:21:40] <av500> Sy_: sorry?
  • [09:22:25] * Amnience (~someone@89-212-51-216.static.t-2.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [09:22:45] <KotH> narcos: still same effect in your bbb?
  • [09:22:58] <narcos> KotH: Trying now
  • [09:23:08] <Sy_> If this works and I get the BBB back, I don't want to end up in this state again, all I did before was opkg update....but if this is unreliable and can lead t a brick then hw can I avoid it and yet still be up to date?
  • [09:23:17] <narcos> KotH: When booting over serial, should I have just the serial plugged in, or serial + 5V ?
  • [09:23:49] <dm8tbr> Sy_: don't run opkg update for now
  • [09:24:12] <KotH> narcos: booting over serial? ie loading the image over serial? i dont know
  • [09:24:22] <Sy_> ok, seems like a pretty serious problem, with potentially lots of duff devices
  • [09:24:24] <KotH> narcos: i dont own a bbb, never worked with it
  • [09:24:37] <narcos> KotH: Ah ok, I think I just use the serial/USB cable.
  • [09:24:52] <KotH> narcos: if you just need a serial console: connect rx/tx and gnd
  • [09:25:05] <KotH> narcos: dont forget to set the right baud rate :)
  • [09:25:16] <kfoltman> and 3.3V not 5V
  • [09:25:24] <kfoltman> well, a 3.3V device
  • [09:25:40] <narcos> Hm, before I take out the microsd from my laptop - I had to do a fdisk -n, as the file system mounted read only. Maybe I should try get it rw and do an fsck again? I'm not sure why it would be mounting ro?
  • [09:25:59] <kfoltman> shouldn't you umount before fsck anyway?
  • [09:26:12] <kfoltman> fsck on an already-mounted filesystem sounds like a bad idea to me?
  • [09:26:24] <narcos> That's true, I did unmount the fs - as you always should
  • [09:26:30] <dm8tbr> Sy_: frequently reinstalling and experimenting is part of embedded devices
  • [09:26:45] <av500> Sy_: no duff devices
  • [09:26:46] <narcos> Strange that I'm getting this message? Unless the slider on the SD adapter is faulty
  • [09:26:50] <av500> you cannot brick it
  • [09:26:55] <av500> you can always reinstall a new image
  • [09:27:35] <kfoltman> narcos: I sometimes get the read only behaviour from SD cards randomly, or depending on which USB port in a hub the reader is plugged in (?! yes)
  • [09:27:50] <narcos> kfoltman: Weird. I'll go try on another machine.
  • [09:29:07] <Sy_> I have two BBB, if I get one of them up and running the way I want it, is there a simply way to transfer the image of one to another?
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  • [09:30:45] <kfoltman> Sy_: one idea would be to run the OS from an SD card and ensure it doesn't use eMMC, then copy it over ethernet to another machine, which also runs an OS that doesn't need to access the eMMC, and make it copy the data it received via ethernet to the eMMC
  • [09:30:50] <KotH> selam TR_KaanErkol
  • [09:31:18] <Sy_> thank you will investigate once I get back online :)
  • [09:31:30] <av500> Sy_: easy: run both from identical SD cards
  • [09:31:35] <kfoltman> Sy_: perhaps netcat/socat could work
  • [09:31:38] <av500> and ignore the emmc
  • [09:31:55] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [09:31:56] <kfoltman> av500: good idea, but it's slower, isn't it?
  • [09:32:17] <av500> depends
  • [09:32:18] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) Quit (Quit: mhaberler)
  • [09:32:25] <av500> slower to blink the cursor?
  • [09:32:27] <av500> to boot?
  • [09:32:28] <kfoltman> OTOH you don't need to worry about erase cycles on the eMMC, you just bin the SD card when it's dead
  • [09:32:35] <av500> to run a bitcoin mining rig?
  • [09:32:40] <kfoltman> av500: to compile a kernel and gcc? ;)
  • [09:32:50] <av500> in that case, both are slow
  • [09:32:53] <av500> use your PC
  • [09:33:08] <kfoltman> av500: to stream 30 channels of sample data in realtime?
  • [09:33:23] <av500> define realtime
  • [09:34:19] <kfoltman> let's say one channel is about 176-352KB/sec (only octave of downsampling) and the expected latency is <2ms
  • [09:34:44] <av500> and what does that have to do with sd card speed?
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  • [09:36:30] <kfoltman> av500: I mean, the data for playback are played directly (well, with some level of buffering) from the sd card (or the eMMC)
  • [09:37:09] <kfoltman> nevermind
  • [09:37:43] <kfoltman> s/played/fetched/
  • [09:38:37] <av500> well
  • [09:38:52] <av500> I would say that mobile phones play audio and video from sd cards just fine
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  • [09:41:44] <kfoltman> av500: sure - in this case, I do multi-channel playback (it's a musical instrument basically, each note = new stream or multiple streams, due to layering) so the bandwidth requirements may be higher, and the audio data is uncompressed PCM, so it may or may not come close to the limits of read data rate of the card
  • [09:42:30] <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi created 3.8-rt (+1 new commit): http://git.io/giBKFg
  • [09:42:30] <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8-rt aafe3d8 Koen Kooi: 3.8-rt: enable PREEMPT-RT patchset...
  • [09:42:48] <kfoltman> it probably depends on the card, its wear-levelling strategies, fragmentation etc., no idea
  • [09:43:04] <narcos> Yeah, my SD adapter's lock switch is borked. Ran fsck with another one, and reports all fine
  • [09:43:55] <av500> kfoltman: digital cameras record and play HD video from sd cards
  • [09:44:10] <narcos> I think I may be discovering the tty too late, maybe if I write a udev rule to fix it
  • [09:45:55] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [09:46:51] <av500> kfoltman: I would say, the sd speed is not your issue
  • [09:48:55] <panto> back
  • [09:49:44] <KotH> panto: right on time for lunch!
  • [09:50:04] <panto> meh, your lunch is way to early for me
  • [09:50:11] <panto> lunch at 3, dinner at 9:30 :)
  • [09:50:44] <panto> *on summer vacation schedule dinner can be pushed to the 11:00-00:00 time schedule
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  • [09:51:35] <Jazzdude> Sy_, did the procedure work?
  • [09:53:14] <Sy_> The SD card is in the BBB, still doing its thing LED's still blinking
  • [09:54:38] <av500> hmm, why the heck is telco power *-* 48V?
  • [09:54:43] <av500> as in -48
  • [09:54:55] <KotH> panto: ah.. you're still eating breakfast
  • [09:55:06] <KotH> av500: huh?
  • [09:55:17] <narcos> Hmm, what would I expect to happen with these udev rules - http://beagleboard.org/static/beaglebone/latest/Drivers/Linux/FTDI/mkudevrule.sh - should I see a /dev/beaglebone-serial instead of a ttyUSBx ?
  • [09:55:18] <KotH> av500: 48V ok.. but minus??
  • [09:55:32] * kelvinji (~kelvinji@183.37.157.30) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [09:55:45] <panto> av500, because that's the ring signal voltage
  • [09:55:57] <av500> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_telecom_power_supply_has_-48V_dc_power_supply
  • [09:56:03] <KotH> panto: ring signal voltage is 60V AC
  • [09:56:11] <av500> The negative voltage on the line was better than positive to prevent electro-chemical reactions from destroying the copper cable quickly, if cables get wet
  • [09:56:12] <panto> it's close enough
  • [09:56:18] <av500> gee
  • [09:56:27] <av500> thats even more ancient cargo than interlaced
  • [09:56:35] <panto> it's 100y+
  • [09:56:39] <av500> yep
  • [09:56:46] <panto> and still works
  • [09:56:48] <av500> and new blade servers have now -48V inputs :)
  • [09:56:57] <KotH> oh..kay..
  • [09:57:06] <av500> so they dont rot in the rain
  • [09:57:16] <KotH> av500: huh?
  • [09:57:17] <panto> http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html
  • [09:57:38] <panto> av500, it's because they're no longer PCs, they're infrastructure
  • [09:57:47] <av500> KotH: ham radio guys like surplus 48V PSUs
  • [09:57:54] <av500> but they dont like the -48 :)
  • [09:57:56] <panto> and reliable -48V power supply is a solved problem
  • [09:58:02] <av500> right
  • [09:58:40] * quiesce (~user@unaffiliated/quiesce) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [09:58:56] <Sy_> This looks like its going to work, I'll come back l8r, thank you for your help.
  • [09:59:07] <bart416> av500> to run a bitcoin mining rig? <-- Wouldn't that be a bit power inefficient :P
  • [09:59:36] <av500> bart416: maybe
  • [09:59:36] <Sy_> Does anyone know where I can get a small PSU that would be suitable to power two BBB ?
  • [09:59:43] <av500> Sy_: yes
  • [09:59:46] <av500> buy a powered USB hub
  • [09:59:51] <dm8tbr> buy a powered usb hub
  • [09:59:51] <av500> 5V, 2A
  • [09:59:55] <av500> dm8tbr: you lag
  • [09:59:59] * dm8tbr high-fives av500
  • [10:00:21] <panto> if (strcasecmp(av500, dm8tbr) == 0) bingo();
  • [10:00:23] <Sy_> I have one of those...will dig it out and try
  • [10:00:28] <Sy_> thank you
  • [10:00:48] <dm8tbr> hehe
  • [10:01:30] * Sy_ (50b1775a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.177.119.90) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [10:01:40] <mrpackethead> theres what are you argumng bout now
  • [10:02:59] <KotH> av500: i can imagine why hams want telco PSUs... they should have very little noise below 5kHz
  • [10:03:56] * PaulePanter (~paul@mail.gw90.de) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [10:04:12] <panto> KotH, telco stuff == serious business
  • [10:04:22] <bart416> I just slap a giant ferrite around it and then a bunch of 100 nF capacitors for my RF stuff.
  • [10:04:27] <bart416> Tends to work pretty well
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  • [10:05:12] <KotH> panto: definitly
  • [10:05:30] <KotH> panto: and if you want to place any equipment there, there might not be any light on, when it's working
  • [10:05:41] <panto> I know
  • [10:05:50] <panto> was in the biz for 10 years
  • [10:05:55] <KotH> poor you
  • [10:05:58] <panto> yep
  • [10:06:02] <KotH> must be a traumatic experience
  • [10:06:07] <panto> you have no idea
  • [10:06:13] <KotH> and i'm glad about that
  • [10:06:18] <panto> especially .gr state run telco
  • [10:06:35] <panto> *privatized now
  • [10:06:54] <panto> well, I didn't work for the telco, I worked for their main supplier
  • [10:07:25] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [10:07:34] * vvu (~quassel@212.201.44.245) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [10:07:40] <narcos> KotH: So if not a Bone, you have a BeagleBoard? Or you just like the company here? :)
  • [10:07:42] <KotH> i dont want to insult you, but anything state run in .gr sounds like a traumatic experience ;)
  • [10:08:01] <KotH> narcos: nope
  • [10:08:07] <KotH> narcos: i've two pandas
  • [10:08:23] <narcos> ah ok - I haven't tried the panda
  • [10:08:26] <KotH> narcos: and i got blackmailed into joining this channel
  • [10:08:29] <panto> KotH, no, you don't really insult me
  • [10:08:31] * KotH blames koen
  • [10:08:31] <narcos> heh, OK
  • [10:08:38] <panto> if it were up to me I'd fire them all
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  • [10:08:54] <KotH> panto: dont you have a rifle?
  • [10:09:00] <KotH> panto: i'm quite sure you have enough walls
  • [10:09:20] <panto> they outnumber us 100:1
  • [10:09:29] <panto> will need something more efficient
  • [10:09:51] <KotH> swiss assault rifles?
  • [10:09:55] <kfoltman> opkg upgrade?
  • [10:09:55] <KotH> the turkish army?
  • [10:10:14] <panto> no, no need
  • [10:10:20] <panto> time
  • [10:10:31] <KotH> panto: sell the country on the free market, i'm sure the turkish gov will be happy to buy you :)
  • [10:10:54] <av500> KotH: no sale
  • [10:10:58] <av500> they dont own it
  • [10:10:58] <panto> well, no
  • [10:10:59] <KotH> but then... the current tr gov is...
  • [10:11:12] <KotH> something one should shot
  • [10:11:12] <panto> cause we've been there, we kinda hate it
  • [10:11:15] <KotH> twice at least
  • [10:11:23] <av500> panto: they left nice coffee
  • [10:11:38] <panto> true
  • [10:12:06] <KotH> panto: dont worry, turkey evolved since then. the country is a lot more islamistic. any other religion will not be tollerated because they are morally wrong
  • [10:12:24] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) has joined #beagle
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  • [10:12:27] <panto> and btw, looking at the latest .tr trends and the import/export gap, you're following into our footsteps
  • [10:12:46] <panto> all you need is to take on the olympics and it's over
  • [10:13:09] <KotH> what do you expect from a gov that places more value in wearing headscarfs in schools than solving the economic problems?
  • [10:13:33] <panto> the people get, what the people wants
  • [10:13:41] <KotH> yeah
  • [10:13:47] <panto> and then wonder wtf happened
  • [10:14:02] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) has joined #beagle
  • [10:14:18] <KotH> sad thing is, people in .tr had more luxuries during the embargo time in the 80s than they have these days... but people complain a lot less..
  • [10:14:49] <KotH> i dont remember seen joe average so poor in .tr as these days :-(
  • [10:14:58] <KotH> seeing*
  • [10:15:17] <KotH> fucking "islam is great" goverment
  • [10:15:38] <KotH> fucking "we have to protect our relgious values against the evil west" people
  • [10:15:57] * panto agrees
  • [10:16:13] <KotH> another 5years and they will start stoneing girls that wear mini skirts
  • [10:16:35] <kfoltman> KotH: "people getting poorer" is a global trend, not just Turkey - it's the same in Ireland, and from what I read, everywhere else
  • [10:16:39] <panto> that's the problem with democracy
  • [10:16:41] <KotH> kfoltman: no it isnt
  • [10:16:44] <panto> every dumbass has a vote
  • [10:16:50] <kfoltman> KotH: sure, religious nuts don't make things any better :S
  • [10:17:02] <KotH> panto: that's not the problem
  • [10:17:10] <panto> well it is
  • [10:17:10] <koen> KotH: 10 years ago my turkish friends were lamenting how progressive Turkey was compared to the dutch turkish community
  • [10:17:16] <panto> and I can explain it
  • [10:17:20] <koen> KotH: they parents are stuck in the 60s
  • [10:17:51] <KotH> panto: they fucked up the schoolsystem royaly for the last 30 years. now people have more faith in genesis then in evolution (70% of the people in .tr think that the evolution theory is wrong.. more than in the usa)
  • [10:17:59] <panto> since it's easy to pander to dumbasses politicians will do so, not paying attention to 'unpleasantries' like the state budget
  • [10:18:11] <kfoltman> KotH: but in Ireland housing/food/energy prices are going up, salaries are mostly stagnant (except for IT), employment is going down, and cuts cuts cuts and new taxes everywhere - maybe it doesn't compare to Turkey, but it's definitely on a downwards trend overall
  • [10:18:14] <KotH> koen: yeah.. i know that...
  • [10:18:18] <panto> just take a loan, put it on the CC, I'll be long gone when the s**t hits the fan
  • [10:18:32] <KotH> koen: i remember my youth: women walking in the streets in mini skirts.... no headscarfs
  • [10:18:49] <KotH> koen: today walking around w/o a headscarf seems to be a major offense
  • [10:19:08] <kfoltman> KotH: fortunately, Irish church committed institutional suicide and the society is fairly liberal
  • [10:19:10] <panto> it's best if you think of the irresponsible behaviour as a mimetic virus
  • [10:19:18] <KotH> kfoltman: sounds the same what .tr has been trough in the last 20y
  • [10:19:29] <panto> if bad behavior is not averted, it tends to spread, cause it's comforting
  • [10:19:34] <KotH> kfoltman: just that the islamists are gaining every day
  • [10:19:42] <panto> until the inevitable breakdown
  • [10:19:42] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) has joined #beagle
  • [10:19:57] * melvin (500ea0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.14.160.235) has joined #beagle
  • [10:19:57] <koen> so
  • [10:20:10] <koen> olympic games in turkey in 7 years?
  • [10:20:14] <KotH> juup
  • [10:20:19] * Sy_ (50b1775a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.177.119.90) has joined #beagle
  • [10:20:23] <kfoltman> panto: well, you've described Irish banking sector very well ;)
  • [10:20:32] <KotH> or i start a revolution and line those fucking idiots up on a wall
  • [10:20:33] <panto> heh
  • [10:20:44] <Sy_> Back, one BBB now up and running, thank you, question, how to I install ntpd to keep the device synchronised?
  • [10:20:58] <panto> KotH, not going to happen anymore; the military is purged isn't it?
  • [10:21:06] <kfoltman> KotH: what can I say, sounds well fucked up indeed
  • [10:21:20] <panto> oh yeah
  • [10:21:27] <panto> snafu's for everyone!
  • [10:21:29] <KotH> panto: yeah.. unfortunately
  • [10:21:45] <KotH> panto: i dont know whether you follow this whole "ergenekon" shit...
  • [10:21:49] <panto> yes
  • [10:22:04] <KotH> panto: something like that would have not been possible in the 90s
  • [10:22:15] <panto> looks like systematic cleansing of anyone that could pose problems
  • [10:22:25] <KotH> panto: placing retired generals on trial for something they could have easily done while in service... no way..
  • [10:22:33] <KotH> panto: juup
  • [10:22:40] <KotH> panto: and people are too scared to do anything about it
  • [10:22:41] <koen> KotH: I liked the MS Word "evidence"
  • [10:23:04] <KotH> panto: heck... i wonder what happend to the turkish that fought 4 big nations at the same time, with nothing more than sticks and stones
  • [10:23:11] <KotH> koen: ?
  • [10:23:17] <KotH> koen: must have missed that
  • [10:23:30] <kfoltman> KotH: well, there's hope in Turkey joining EU, but there might be downsides of course
  • [10:23:35] <koen> KotH: allegedly they wrote it all down in 2003 and burned it on a CDROM
  • [10:23:45] <KotH> kfoltman: as long as merkel stays in power, tr will not join the eu
  • [10:23:49] <koen> KotH: only problem is that the .doc says it's written with MS word 2007
  • [10:23:59] <KotH> kfoltman: and if this continues, .tr will be in no place to join the eu in a couple of years
  • [10:24:13] <panto> it's not as if eu is all roses
  • [10:24:18] <kfoltman> KotH: I hope Merkel's days in power are soon over - otherwise she'll bankrupt the whole continent :/
  • [10:24:24] <panto> besides the obvious problems
  • [10:24:25] <koen> KotH: the prosecutor argued that "everyone knows ms word will rewrite the document everytime you open it"
  • [10:24:40] <panto> it's too burdened down with bureaucracy
  • [10:24:43] <koen> on a CDROM
  • [10:25:20] * deffrag (~Dedec@unaffiliated/deffrag) Quit ()
  • [10:25:26] <panto> so although the engineers are normally top-notch they have to carry along lots of dead weight
  • [10:25:35] <KotH> koen: eh..
  • [10:26:18] <KotH> koen: well... i've not had any high level technical discussion with anyone in .tr for 20 or so years...
  • [10:26:27] <KotH> koen: education doesn't count much there anymore
  • [10:26:33] <KotH> koen: and nowing modern things...
  • [10:26:33] <panto> the only good think about the recent .gr burndown was that the problems are getting talked about, and the crazies are easier to spot
  • [10:26:42] * PaulePanter (~paul@mail.gw90.de) has joined #beagle
  • [10:27:27] <KotH> yeah
  • [10:28:07] * Amnience (~someone@89-212-51-216.static.t-2.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [10:28:25] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [10:28:36] <KotH> well.. enough ranting for today...lunch time
  • [10:28:58] * kelvinji (~kelvinji@183.37.159.92) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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  • [10:32:36] <kelvinji> the problem drived me crazy....
  • [10:32:53] <kelvinji> bootloader does not work for our board
  • [10:34:10] <kelvinji> it blocked writel(0x00000008, &gpmc_cfg->sysconfig);
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  • [10:34:19] <Sy_> mmmm...have installed tzdata and ntpdate using opkg, have set local time to UTC, but when system is restarted it looses time sync.
  • [10:34:30] <kelvinji> I do not know why blocked here...
  • [10:36:36] <kfoltman> kelvinji: what does that do? does it switch the system clock to a poorly soldered crystal?
  • [10:37:17] <av500> kelvinji: blocked?
  • [10:37:42] <kfoltman> kelvinji: or enable some IRQ that doesn't have a valid handler?
  • [10:38:33] <dwery> panto: thanks for that capemgr stuff...works very nicely
  • [10:38:58] <panto> dwery, you must be the only person that said that :)
  • [10:39:04] <dwery> my cape conflicts with HDMI on the black and capemgr was clever enough to give priority to the cape
  • [10:39:07] <panto> everyone else wants to kill me
  • [10:39:20] <dm8tbr> Sy_: not sure, but maybe it doesn't have a RTC?
  • [10:39:31] <dwery> that's because you have prioritized my cape and left all the others XD
  • [10:39:41] <panto> hehe
  • [10:39:44] <av500> kelvinji: stop spamming people in PMs
  • [10:40:00] <panto> speaking of which I plan to make a page in elinux explaining the concept
  • [10:40:11] <dwery> will surely read it!
  • [10:40:16] <panto> (on my copious free time)
  • [10:40:34] <Sy_> It doesn't need an RTC, I want to get it to sync. periodically to the internet NTP server...if it does this at regular intervals then thats ok.
  • [10:40:52] <narcos> Damn, finally got a serial connection in.
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  • [10:40:59] <dwery> panto: are the flags in slots documented womewhere?
  • [10:41:03] <Sy_> I'm trying a cron job
  • [10:41:10] <av500> narcos: now you need one out too
  • [10:41:26] <Sy_> 1 * * * * /usr/bin/ntpdate -b -s -u pool.ntp.org
  • [10:41:38] <Sy_> just to see if it works, then will change time to 30 mins.
  • [10:41:51] <narcos> av500: Heh, well, it's going both ways
  • [10:42:03] <narcos> I'm almost back to where I was last week....
  • [10:42:05] <panto> dwery, err, not really
  • [10:42:09] <dwery> just curious
  • [10:42:15] <panto> dwery, it's just status info
  • [10:42:26] <panto> loading, loaded, failed, etc
  • [10:42:27] <narcos> http://xkcd.com/349/ <- my past few days
  • [10:43:25] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [10:43:39] <dwery> panto: I was too lazy to give a look at the code.. did it now, pretty clear
  • [10:44:12] <kfoltman> narcos: I think it's par for the course with embedded ;) whole day spent and no progress apart from knowing that certain approaches don't really work, or at least that they were not done correctly
  • [10:44:14] <panto> one bad thing about /sysfs is that's a user-facing API
  • [10:44:23] <panto> one screw-up and it's stays with you forever
  • [10:44:36] <Sy_> didn't work, doesn't look like cron job is running
  • [10:45:22] <dwery> panto: yep, I know it very well :(
  • [10:45:41] <dwery> the mantra was one sysfs per property
  • [10:45:52] <dwery> I'm not sure if /slots could be that way or not
  • [10:46:08] <panto> me neither
  • [10:46:35] <dwery> panto: you might want to add a status property to the cape directory
  • [10:47:00] <av500> hmm
  • [10:47:01] <panto> there's lots of stuff to do for the 3.10+ forward port
  • [10:47:04] <russell--> Sy_: connman
  • [10:47:08] <av500> sysfsfs
  • [10:47:19] <dwery> panto: with text based status "probed", ...
  • [10:47:21] <panto> av500, banananana?
  • [10:47:29] <av500> an fs using sysfs
  • [10:47:34] <av500> as storage
  • [10:48:17] <av500> hmm
  • [10:48:19] <av500> devmemfs
  • [10:48:26] <av500> the more you store, the less you have
  • [10:48:35] <russell--> Sy_: /usr/lib/connman/test/set-global-timeservers <serverhost1> <serverhost2> <serverhost3>
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  • [10:50:50] <narcos> kfoltman: What makes me sad is I went through it all a month ago, and everything was working fine, and today I wanted to deploy my stuff, and things "stopped working" :P
  • [10:51:04] <Sy_> ok, I've entered "/usr/lib/connman/test/set-global-timeservers pool.ntp.org"
  • [10:51:11] <Sy_> What does that actually do?
  • [10:51:25] <av500> hmm, what could "set-global-timeserver" do
  • [10:51:43] <panto> I know, I know, pick me, pick me!
  • [10:51:44] <russell--> Sy_: it tells connman which host(s) to try to sync with
  • [10:51:54] <kelvinji> sorry .......http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5706434/
  • [10:51:54] <Sy_> I realise how that sounds....but having done it, when does it set the time, having check it hasn't
  • [10:51:55] <av500> shhh panto
  • [10:52:12] <Sy_> will it keep the setting after reboot?
  • [10:52:23] <koen> if your DHCP server sets an ntp server address connman will use that automagically as well
  • [10:52:39] <narcos> Right, static IP, let's see if ethernet works again now
  • [10:53:44] <russell--> Sy_: try and see
  • [10:53:49] <narcos> It does. I've changed nothing. WTF.
  • [10:54:04] <narcos> ah well.
  • [10:54:20] <Moult> does the bbb provide 5V DC or AC ?
  • [10:55:21] <Sy_> Excellent, thank you russell, it works, have reset twice and pulled the power, keeps time after power up.
  • [10:55:46] <av500> Moult: if you feed it DC, it provides DC
  • [10:55:52] <av500> if you feed it AC, it breaks
  • [10:55:58] <av500> but might still provide AC
  • [10:56:25] <Sy_> Does anyone have any links or pointers for getting mysql installed and running on BBB? I installed it yesterday, but it wouldn't run.
  • [10:56:40] <av500> define not run
  • [10:57:04] <LetoThe2nd> "it stays on the desk where i placed it."
  • [10:57:11] <Moult> av500: this is from laptop usb
  • [10:57:13] <Sy_> I'll install it again and report the error message
  • [10:57:31] <av500> Sy_: no, never give out information just like this
  • [10:57:37] <av500> make us work hard to get it :)
  • [10:57:47] <av500> Moult: USB is 5V DC
  • [10:58:06] <Moult> av500: I'm finding weird behavior when controlling some servos. If I run them for say 3 seconds no problem
  • [10:58:20] <Moult> If I run them for 5 seconds then stop, the bbb dies
  • [10:58:26] <Moult> Any ideas what could cause that?
  • [10:58:27] <narcos> Sy_: Wouldn't run, how so?
  • [10:58:46] <narcos> Sy_: I suspect it's less to do with the BBB, and more to do the the OS
  • [10:58:50] <av500> Moult: use a proper power supply
  • [10:59:05] <panto> Moult, your bbb dies... it's malnourished
  • [10:59:25] <panto> your servos eat your bbb's food
  • [10:59:28] <panto> bbb sad
  • [10:59:29] <Moult> av500: I find that using a power pack doesn't allow me to turn the servo clockwise and anticlockwise
  • [10:59:35] <dwery> get some soylent
  • [10:59:37] <av500> ?
  • [10:59:53] <av500> get a more powerfull power pack
  • [11:00:03] <Moult> av500: but if powered from the bbb, certain pwm periods allow me to. Very odd
  • [11:00:16] <av500> indeed
  • [11:00:16] <narcos> Sy_: I suspect you've been Googling, but the first hit seems to indicate a problem with MySQL and Angstrom - http://arobenko-tech.blogspot.com/2012/09/install-mysql-on-beagleboardbeaglebone.html
  • [11:00:32] <narcos> ( assuming you're using Angstrom, I'm using Ubuntu 12.10 )
  • [11:00:41] <Moult> av500: you reckon it's because I don't have a strong enough power pack?
  • [11:00:59] <av500> I have no idea
  • [11:01:05] * melvin (500ea0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.14.160.235) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [11:01:08] <av500> but power issues can be debugged easily
  • [11:01:11] <av500> multimeters
  • [11:01:12] <Moult> av500: the servo spec says 6v max, I've fed it 6v worth of batteries and no luck there.
  • [11:01:13] <av500> scopes
  • [11:01:18] <av500> etc..
  • [11:01:41] <av500> Moult: assume we are not standing behind you
  • [11:01:54] <av500> so we have no idea what you connected and how
  • [11:02:10] <fiola> Moult: Do you have a DVM / multimeter? If not, that should be your first purchase for diagnosing all kinds of power problems. 10 quid is ample.
  • [11:02:11] <Moult> av500: right.
  • [11:02:50] <Sy_> Thats the post I came across yesterday...
  • [11:02:56] <Moult> Here's the beef. I've got a continuous rotation servo hooked up to a pwm signal pin on the bbb
  • [11:03:09] <narcos> KotH: So you were right - I have a new PSU, and suddenly things are behaving normally. It's a 2A one - still trying to find a >2A one.
  • [11:03:17] <narcos> Surprinsingly uncommon in these parts.
  • [11:03:18] <Moult> If I power it via the bbb, some periods allow me to make it rotate anticlockwise and clockwise
  • [11:03:25] <av500> narcos: buy a 7 port hub
  • [11:03:31] <av500> they have like 3A PSUs :)
  • [11:03:52] <Moult> But if I power it using batteries, all periods produce a single direction
  • [11:04:46] <Moult> av500: no fancy circuit to show
  • [11:04:55] <av500> http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/Nzg5OTQ2OTk-
  • [11:04:58] <av500> 5V, 3.7A
  • [11:05:04] <av500> narcos: ^^^
  • [11:05:14] <av500> http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/OTg4ODQ2OTk-
  • [11:05:16] <av500> 5V 3A
  • [11:06:24] * Jaguar` (~david@ppp121-44-140-20.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) has joined #beagle
  • [11:06:58] <Jaguar`> wpan0: RX packets:570 errors:0 dropped:358 overruns:0 frame:0 woot!
  • [11:07:31] <av500> http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/NTc4ODQ2OTk-
  • [11:07:33] <av500> 5V 10A
  • [11:09:36] <Sy_> mmm...yesterday there were various mysql packages available when using "opkg list | mysql", today there are none
  • [11:09:50] <Sy_> *opkg list | grep "mysql"
  • [11:10:12] <Sy_> but just used "opkg list" and no mysql packages come up
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  • [11:15:23] * re-stage (56399eb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.57.158.178) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [11:15:33] <Sy_> can anyone shed any light on where the mysql packages have gone?
  • [11:16:08] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [11:16:21] <Amnience> mysql has gone the way of the oracle
  • [11:16:51] <av500> opkg update
  • [11:17:23] <Sy_> are you sure it won't render my BBB's as bricks?
  • [11:18:10] <av500> you mean like in minecraft?
  • [11:18:28] <Sy_> ok, thank you av500, packages are now updated and mysql is now listed
  • [11:18:40] <av500> again, you cannot brick it
  • [11:18:52] <av500> well, there was a guy that used a brick to brick it
  • [11:19:19] <bart416> I'm pretty certain a sledge hammer or a few grams of gunpowder would work as well to brick it av500.
  • [11:19:35] <av500> sure
  • [11:19:37] <av500> go ahead
  • [11:19:42] <av500> dont forget to utube it
  • [11:21:30] <KotH> narcos: i'm always right when i'm right :)
  • [11:24:14] <KotH> lol.. i get an invitation to participate in a road show "dream jobs in ICT" for students... me who hates doing software ^^'
  • [11:25:00] <av500> KotH: you live in small country
  • [11:25:09] <av500> you need to fill in for several roles
  • [11:25:35] * Sorcier_FXK (~nssystem@unaffiliated/sorcierfxk) has joined #beagle
  • [11:25:36] <av500> I assume you also have a bank
  • [11:25:59] <KotH> of course i do, and a small shop "import export waren aller art" :)
  • [11:26:08] <av500> of course
  • [11:26:13] <av500> all tr people have that
  • [11:26:14] * kfoltman (~kfoltman@gate.corvil.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [11:26:40] * Amnience (~someone@89-212-51-216.static.t-2.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [11:30:15] <bart416> KotH, well you could give a speech about why outsourcing sucks even more :P
  • [11:30:32] <bart416> You wouldn't be lying based on the quality of the sort of code you get from India >_>
  • [11:30:40] * melvin (500ea0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.14.160.235) has joined #beagle
  • [11:31:48] <KotH> bart416: quite a few of our customers have their own electronics development
  • [11:32:03] <KotH> bart416: they still come to us, and are usually quite happe when the project is over :)
  • [11:32:09] <KotH> bart416: so much for outsourcing sucks ;-)
  • [11:32:23] <bart416> I was talking about outsourcing to india...
  • [11:32:36] <bart416> I've seen code that I'm amazed ever even compiled.
  • [11:32:36] <av500> outsourcing is out
  • [11:32:43] <av500> nearshoring is in
  • [11:33:22] <bart416> The list of warnings was possibly longer than the number of characters in the file.
  • [11:33:30] <panto> lunch
  • [11:33:33] <panto> l8rs
  • [11:33:48] <av500> happy gyros
  • [11:35:01] <koen> bart416: I didn't know the yaffs2 code was done by outsourcing
  • [11:35:30] <bart416> They should do a contest "longest GCC error list for the shortest file"
  • [11:35:57] <bart416> Anyway, I'm off
  • [11:36:00] <bart416> Got to do some writing
  • [11:36:03] * bart416 (~root@unaffiliated/solidraven) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [11:36:52] <Sy_> I now have mySQL running without errors on two BBB, will not configure them for High Availability multi-master :)
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  • [11:41:19] <Sy_> I must have key'd in something wrong when I tried it the first time around, follow the instructions on this page http://arobenko-tech.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/install-mysql-on-beagleboardbeaglebone.html and it works!
  • [11:41:38] <av500> omg
  • [11:42:31] <KotH> exact steps!
  • [11:42:43] <av500> we need to have that blog post taken down!
  • [11:42:59] <russell--> koen: ./oebb.sh update ; MACHINE=beaglebone bitbake systemd-gnome-image failing on nautilus ... appears to be result of gtk include files moving recently
  • [11:43:06] <KotH> av500: why?
  • [11:44:10] <av500> hmm, Nemo runs Gnome?
  • [11:44:27] * anshu (~arivendu@27.251.78.82) has joined #beagle
  • [11:46:23] <koen> russell--: hmmm, haven't seen that one yet
  • [11:49:18] <melvin> Hello there ! I have some trouble with my Beaglebone A6; the problem is the CANBus cape is not detected (nothing appears after typing dmesg | grep -i cape, or dmesg | grep -i can)
  • [11:52:59] * SlashV (~SlashV@ip176-146-172-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [11:55:02] <Sy_> thanks again...ttfn
  • [11:55:20] * Sy_ (50b1775a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.177.119.90) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
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  • [11:58:59] <av500> KotH: OMG: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1200089
  • [12:00:55] * KotH lols
  • [12:00:55] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [12:01:10] <KotH> stupidity prevails!
  • [12:01:55] <KotH> av500: why do you read xda?
  • [12:01:55] <narcos> av500: Ahh, such a good diea
  • [12:02:03] <narcos> s/diea/idea
  • [12:02:07] <narcos> (on the 7 port USB hub)
  • [12:02:12] <KotH> av500: slow day at work?
  • [12:03:00] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [12:03:10] <av500> no
  • [12:03:23] <av500> theres an android app that sets that ntp for you
  • [12:03:31] * f11f12 (~f11f12@213.246.201.50) has joined #beagle
  • [12:03:31] <av500> somebody linked that
  • [12:04:06] <dm8tbr> I thought 'utterly stoopid' was the definition for 99% of XDA content
  • [12:04:10] <KotH> well..well.. well...
  • [12:04:34] * KotH doesnt mention that the UMTS network time is usually more accurate than ntp, and more reliable too
  • [12:05:00] <KotH> but maybe it isnt in india... where GSM network time was known to be off by 5-10min
  • [12:05:31] <dm8tbr> yeah GSM network time generally seems to suck
  • [12:05:49] <KotH> it was an after the fact addition to gsm
  • [12:05:58] <narcos> I'd like a bo for my bone, but encasing my USB peripherals too. Something weather tight. Any suggestions?
  • [12:06:03] <narcos> I'm currently using a lunch box :P
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  • [12:06:24] <KotH> umts has the good time specs just because the base stations need to by synced to a couple of us, which is usually done using GPS, hence accurate time comes for free
  • [12:06:47] <av500> I never understood why I needed to set time and date on my Nokia phones in the past
  • [12:06:53] <av500> that seemed so dumb
  • [12:06:58] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [12:06:59] <KotH> narcos: use a steal box, solder the lid using hard solder
  • [12:07:11] <av500> KotH: steal a box?
  • [12:07:25] <KotH> av500: steal, steel, where is the difference? :)
  • [12:07:52] * Bumble-Bee (~Bumble-Be@ubuntu.lilac-villa.co.uk) has joined #beagle
  • [12:07:58] <dm8tbr> did someone mention polish cars? ;)
  • [12:07:59] <av500> if you steal steel, none
  • [12:08:01] <russell--> hard solder, /me assumes you mean removing the soldering iron
  • [12:08:34] <av500> narcos: lunch box is fine
  • [12:08:44] <av500> or get a peli case
  • [12:08:50] <KotH> russell--: no, hard solder is hard solder, not to be confused with soft solder which is generally used for electronics
  • [12:08:53] <av500> or an otterbox
  • [12:09:05] * jpirko (jirka@nat/redhat/x-fnuqszcwhowciiva) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [12:09:06] <KotH> russell--: hard solder has a meltingpoing >400?C
  • [12:09:11] <KotH> point*
  • [12:10:00] <russell--> ah, like brazing
  • [12:10:59] * tsjsieb (~tsjsieb@2001:980:4b3b:1:225:31ff:fe00:ff7a) has joined #beagle
  • [12:11:28] <narcos> av500, KotH: I'd like it to look professional - clients may see it.
  • [12:11:30] <KotH> russell--: err.. no it is brazing ^^'
  • [12:11:35] <av500> narcos: so
  • [12:11:41] <av500> get something professional
  • [12:11:41] <narcos> and I solder like a monkey
  • [12:11:49] * creemj_ (~mjc@60-234-221-162.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [12:12:19] <narcos> av500: Yeah I've been Googling - thought you guys might know something off hand
  • [12:12:49] * jpirko (jirka@nat/redhat/x-aekqjlshbtbliycx) has joined #beagle
  • [12:13:24] <fiola> narcos: Look for "IP65" in enclosure listings, there are bazillions, eg. http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcrp1285/box-abs-ip65-186x146x75mm/dp/1520421 But with weatherproofing come cooling considerations, so you'll have toi think carefully about that.
  • [12:13:41] * creemj (~mjc@60-234-221-162.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) has joined #beagle
  • [12:14:05] <KotH> narcos: get someone professional
  • [12:14:20] <narcos> fiola: That looks interesting, thanks
  • [12:14:32] <narcos> KotH: Are you professional? Can I get you? :)
  • [12:15:52] <russell--> my experience has been <5W nema enclosures not a problem for heat
  • [12:17:05] <narcos> "NEMA defines standards for various grades of electrical enclosures" <- interesting
  • [12:18:07] <fiola> narcos: there's a table of NEMA vs IP codes here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP65
  • [12:18:29] <mhaberler> KotH: time shift offset to compensate for signal travel distance/arrival time is available in GSM too; but these are relative timers - I guess the network time is independent of that
  • [12:18:39] <KotH> fiola: you mean IP68, IP65 is not watertight
  • [12:18:41] <narcos> fiola: Great, thanks
  • [12:18:49] <KotH> narcos: sure, you can hire me
  • [12:19:14] <KotH> narcos: rates are 220 per hour, CHF for small jobs, EUR for big jobs, kuweit dinars for manamgent problems
  • [12:19:15] <av500> http://www.reichelt.de/Open-Frame-Netzteile/ELP-75-5/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=4960&ARTICLE=132745
  • [12:19:18] <av500> hmm, 5V, 15A
  • [12:19:22] <av500> for my beagle farm
  • [12:19:46] * Sy_ (50b1775a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.177.119.90) has joined #beagle
  • [12:19:50] <russell--> also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_gland
  • [12:20:06] <narcos> KotH: ?and Zimbabwe dollars for the LOLs? :)
  • [12:20:19] <KotH> narcos: no, that would be us dollars
  • [12:20:22] <fiola> KotH: narcos said weather tight, not submersed. With different requirements, you need different solutions
  • [12:20:26] <KotH> narcos: and it's lulz
  • [12:20:30] <Sy_> How / where do I add firewall exceptions in Angstrom, in Centos I would edit /etc/sysconfig/iptables
  • [12:20:39] <narcos> Ah - the Cable_gland - I found something similar for USB
  • [12:20:41] <KotH> fiola: oh.. misread
  • [12:21:16] <KotH> fiola: thought it was "water tight"
  • [12:21:48] <av500> hmm, 5V 100A
  • [12:21:57] <av500> tempting
  • [12:22:01] <panto> back
  • [12:22:13] <av500> front
  • [12:22:17] <KotH> panto: how was second breakfast?
  • [12:22:21] <KotH> av500: go! get it!
  • [12:22:28] <KotH> av500: build a bitcoin farm!
  • [12:22:51] <mru> coinville
  • [12:24:34] * Amnience (~someone@89-212-51-216.static.t-2.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [12:25:12] <narcos> If you're looking to connect your Linux box to the net with your 3G dongle, sakis3g is pretty neat.
  • [12:26:45] <KotH> well...
  • [12:27:01] <narcos> Ah, got a nicer way?
  • [12:27:08] <KotH> in the days, when av500 was still young, people knew how to configure ppp and wrote their pppconfig by hand
  • [12:27:28] <narcos> ahh
  • [12:27:42] * narcos shuffles his feet
  • [12:28:02] <narcos> "sakis3g connect APN=internet" is a pretty neat little command, though.
  • [12:28:24] <panto> I sense another .gr person there
  • [12:28:33] <narcos> Trying to maintain the connection proved trickier, I've wrapped an ugly python script around it to try ensure the connection keeps up.
  • [12:28:34] <panto> sakis makes pretty obvious
  • [12:28:42] <av500> sake?
  • [12:28:57] <panto> close enough
  • [12:29:15] <narcos> My BBB will need to reliably phone home.
  • [12:29:53] <av500> liked an Xbox One?
  • [12:29:56] <av500> like*
  • [12:30:45] * narcos doesn't know about the Xbox One
  • [12:30:48] <dm8tbr> don't give them ideas, next thing each box will come with built in battery and GSM module...
  • [12:31:03] * dhanishvijayan (~Dhanish@115.241.72.196) has joined #beagle
  • [12:31:04] <narcos> Did they backdoor it?
  • [12:31:49] <narcos> I notice Apple products are pretty bad too. Each time one connects to a network it sends a cleartext GUID to apple servers.
  • [12:32:02] <KotH> narcos: same goes for android and google
  • [12:33:30] <narcos> ah
  • [12:33:54] <KotH> narcos: and i'm pretty sure that koen installed something in the beagles as well, dialing home is hip!
  • [12:34:25] <narcos> hehe
  • [12:36:07] <av500> he has to pay for the 2nd Ferrari somehow
  • [12:38:00] <KotH> i dont judge him for that
  • [12:38:03] <KotH> i would do the same
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  • [12:40:15] <fiola> That's why the BBB leds are so bright and continually flashing, they're phoning home on the blue LED network :P
  • [12:40:57] <av500> yep
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  • [12:48:06] <tsjsieb> As long as he doesn't poison the second ferrari with blue LED's I'm fine with it aswell...
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  • [13:04:35] <rymate1234> Hey guys.
  • [13:05:12] <rymate1234> I already have a raspberry pi, but I'm thinking of getting beagle board black for extra power
  • [13:05:33] <rymate1234> Was wondering if I need anything extra to use the beagleboard
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  • [13:06:52] <panto> you need either a computer with a usb port or a power supply
  • [13:08:00] <Guser> Hi everyone! I'm trying to use my USB serial console on the BBB with no success. after connecting the board I can mount it with no problem but I fail create the ttyUSB device. what am I missing?
  • [13:08:39] <dm8tbr> I don't think the BBB appears as a serial device over USB
  • [13:09:02] <Guser> then why the UDEV rules?
  • [13:09:03] <rymate1234> panto: Already have the power supply
  • [13:09:06] <fiola> rymate1234: What comes in the BBB package is enough to get you up and running in minutes if you have a PC. But to progress further, several accessories will help you advance faster. Any of the sites selling the BBB will show you compatible accessories like a power supply, microHDMI cable, and serial cable.
  • [13:09:17] <av500> Guser: that is for BBW
  • [13:09:18] <av500> not BBB
  • [13:09:56] <Guser> av500: the BBB comes with a drivers directory on it which holds udev rules files. that is not ment for the BBB?
  • [13:10:02] <rymate1234> So I need a microhdmi cable
  • [13:11:27] <fiola> It's not necessary, but it's handy. A serial cable is even handier if you intend to do anything ambitious.
  • [13:12:44] <rymate1234> I don't have anything I can hook a serial cable up to
  • [13:12:44] <fiola> I happen to use Farnell, but any other supplier will list equivalent accessories -- see the long list below --> http://uk.farnell.com/circuitco/bb-bblk-000/beaglebone-black-cortex-a8-dev/dp/2291620
  • [13:12:51] <Guser> I'll try to rephrase my quesion: does anyone know what to do in order to get the serial console working via usb on the BBB? (if possible)
  • [13:15:08] <narcos> Guser: What OS?
  • [13:15:14] <narcos> ( on your PC )
  • [13:15:24] <Guser> Gentoo
  • [13:15:52] <narcos> Do you see a ttyUSBx when you plug it in?
  • [13:15:57] <narcos> ( in your dmesg )
  • [13:16:02] <Guser> narcos: nope
  • [13:16:10] <erbo> anything interesting in dmesg?
  • [13:16:51] <Guser> I'll pastebin it
  • [13:16:58] <narcos> Guser: So, I haven't tried with Gentoo, but with Ubuntu I see it.
  • [13:17:29] <fiola> BBB doesn't have a serial console connection on USB. That's why if you want serial, you need a serial cable to connect to the BBB's 6-pin serial console header.
  • [13:18:30] <Guser> http://pastebin.com/7YxMiLE7
  • [13:19:10] <Guser> fiola: narcos got it working, and the documentation says it should work.
  • [13:19:24] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) Quit (Quit: mhaberler)
  • [13:19:40] <erbo> fiola: oh, I thought he was plugin in a usb-ftdi adapter via usb on the BBB
  • [13:20:09] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [13:20:30] <Guser> erbo: i am
  • [13:20:30] * tsjsieb (~hakkestee@siebj.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [13:21:49] <fiola> I'm using Gentoo, with picocom for reading the serial port provided by the recommended FTDI adapter "TTL-232R-3V3". The BBB manual describes it, section 7.5, p.76.
  • [13:22:32] * vvu (~quassel@212.201.44.245) has joined #beagle
  • [13:22:37] <erbo> I'm confused, what is connected where? :)
  • [13:22:56] * anshu (~arivendu@27.251.78.82) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [13:22:57] <narcos> Guser: Did you run the udev scripts already? I wonder if that'd have changed your ttyUSBx to beaglebone-serial
  • [13:23:26] <fiola> erbo: I think he's expecting serial console to come out of the USB client connector, like it did on BB white.
  • [13:23:37] <av500> yup
  • [13:23:40] <erbo> fiola: I do too :)
  • [13:23:59] <Guser> narcos: I did run it, I'm not getting ttyUSBx nor beablebone-serial
  • [13:24:29] <Guser> I'm just trying to get a tty.
  • [13:24:54] <narcos> Guser: I was getting ttyUSBx, then I ran the udev scripts, and stopped getting either. Not sure what's up with that, but I switched to another VM.
  • [13:25:29] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@77.40.182.98) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0)
  • [13:26:34] <Sy_> Does anyone have any information on how to set-up firewall rules on a BBB ?
  • [13:27:18] <Guser> Sy_: i suppose iptables can do the job
  • [13:27:19] <fiola> Identical to any Linux, using iptables and ip6tables.
  • [13:27:42] <Sy_> thank you, will try
  • [13:28:24] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [13:31:10] <Guser> fiola: since the serial-cosnole is my fallback option, do you know how to setup the usb networking on gentoo? (i think I'm missing a driver)
  • [13:32:20] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [13:32:22] <fiola> Guser: You Gentoo kernel has to have been compiled with cdc_ether
  • [13:33:23] <av500> ?
  • [13:33:25] <av500> cdc ether?
  • [13:33:30] <av500> there is real ether on the bone
  • [13:33:38] <av500> ah usb
  • [13:33:43] <av500> never mind then
  • [13:33:48] <fiola> The kernel option is CONFIG_USB_NET_CDCETHER
  • [13:34:20] <fiola> While you're at it, enable all the CDC options, they'll come in handy.
  • [13:34:27] * ezequielgarcia (~elezegarc@55.222.3.200.ros.express.com.ar) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [13:34:36] <fiola> (As modules,. naturally)
  • [13:36:03] <narcos> I don't suppose upstart on Ubuntu on the BBB would behave any differently? I can't get a simple job to register
  • [13:36:06] <narcos> - http://pastebin.com/7KEJkFra
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  • [13:37:31] <Guser> fiola: Many thanks, I went too look for it myself after your fist comment. appreciate it!
  • [13:37:38] <av500> narcos: #ubuntu
  • [13:37:38] <Guser> *first
  • [13:38:23] <Rickta59> has anyone implemented a ws2811 driver using the PRU?
  • [13:38:49] <Rickta59> on the BBB
  • [13:38:53] <fiola> Guser: Welcome. You might also like to check out http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/beagleboneblack/install.xml and http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/beagleboneblack/install_emmc.xml#expand --- I've not tried yet, still on Angstrom, but it's planned.
  • [13:40:40] <narcos> av500: I got a bunch of "nafc" in there
  • [13:40:42] <Rickta59> Guser, are you getting a ttyACM0? that is how the serial port shows upt for me
  • [13:40:45] <av500> Rickta59: wasnt that you?
  • [13:40:49] <Guser> fiola: I looked at it aswell :) maybe when I'll be done with my current project. looks pretty straightforward I must say
  • [13:41:04] <Rickta59> av500: ?
  • [13:41:19] <Guser> Rickta59: I'm recompiling my kernel atm. I'll try to respond soon
  • [13:41:28] <av500> Rickta59: the WS2811 guy
  • [13:41:48] <Rickta59> i like the ws2811 .. but i haven't done any coding on the PRU to make it work
  • [13:42:09] <Rickta59> i've implemented some code for cortex-m0 raw chips using SPI
  • [13:43:11] <Rickta59> if someone has already worked out the details of how to do it on the BBB, i'd rather just use it
  • [13:43:31] <av500> it works on my MSP430
  • [13:43:48] <Rickta59> yeah i got some of that going too
  • [13:44:08] <Rickta59> not really my work .. just a port to msp430-gcc
  • [13:44:27] <av500> port?
  • [13:44:30] <Sy_> The Angstrom iptables command doesn't recognise --dport, how do you specify the port ?
  • [13:44:44] <Rickta59> conversion for CCS asm syntax to inline asm
  • [13:44:46] <Rickta59> for gcc
  • [13:44:47] <av500> is it busybox?
  • [13:44:56] <av500> asm?
  • [13:45:02] <av500> ah
  • [13:45:07] <av500> I just wrote it in C
  • [13:45:13] <Rickta59> no, that stuff is all low level bitbangign stuff
  • [13:45:22] <Rickta59> or hw spi without an os
  • [13:45:27] <av500> yes
  • [13:45:30] <av500> I bitbanged it too
  • [13:45:50] <Rickta59> heh .. that is my new standard how easy it is to use a chip
  • [13:46:01] <Rickta59> .. how long does it take to get a ws2811 led strip going
  • [13:46:07] <koen> Sy_: did you list a protocol?
  • [13:46:12] <koen> Sy_: --dport needs a -p
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  • [13:46:57] <Rickta59> is it possible to spew spi data without breaks on the BBB?
  • [13:47:07] <Rickta59> at 800k
  • [13:47:16] <Sy_> tcp
  • [13:47:46] <Sy_> I tried this: iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp -m --dport 3306 -j ACCEPT
  • [13:47:56] <Sy_> but it doesn't like the argument dport
  • [13:48:37] <koen> and without -m?
  • [13:48:54] <Sy_> thats better
  • [13:48:56] <Sy_> ty
  • [13:50:32] <Sy_> Do I need to create an iptables file or is entering this into the command line sufficent, will it remember the setting after reboot ?
  • [13:50:38] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) has joined #beagle
  • [13:50:46] <fiola> Probably time for an iptables upgrade, v1.4.15 is getting a bit old
  • [13:53:27] * dhanishvijayan (~Dhanish@117.199.15.68) has joined #beagle
  • [13:53:43] <Guser> fiola: Do I need to setup a tun device on my pc to connect to the BBB default network?
  • [13:54:06] <panto> Guser, what BBB default network?
  • [13:54:25] <Guser> panto: the USB adapter @ 192.168.7.2
  • [13:54:28] <Sy_> ifconfig
  • [13:55:45] <narcos> Guser: You'd just set the device on your laptop to be in the same range, e.g 192.168.7.1
  • [13:56:34] <Guser> narcos: but then I'll disconnect from my local network. I think tun will do the work.
  • [13:56:49] <narcos> Guser: You should have a new device - something like "ethernet gadget"
  • [13:57:01] <narcos> Well, that's what I sgot.
  • [13:57:06] <narcos> *got
  • [13:57:23] <narcos> i.e. not your ethernet/wifi adapter, but a new interface.
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  • [13:59:24] <panto> just add an alias
  • [14:00:08] <fiola> Guser: I didn't set up any interfaces specifically for BBB, the interface just appeared all by itself on plugging in -- very good out of the box experience. But not using that now, migrated to standalone operation.
  • [14:00:29] <narcos> Right, screw upstart, I'm using rc.local.
  • [14:00:32] <yegorich> Hi! Has anyone testes wl1271 with nuttcp? I get about 12Mbps on am3517
  • [14:01:01] * tudalex|away is now known as tudalex
  • [14:01:55] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [14:02:01] <fiola> Don't use ifconfig peeps, use iproute2. ifconfig is old and broken and won't work with IPv6, and ifconfig aliases are just plain wrong. Get used to iproute2, you'll need it, and it's far superior.
  • [14:02:25] * koen is still trying to retrain the muscle memory
  • [14:02:26] <panto> fiola, I'm an old guy
  • [14:02:32] <panto> I know about iproute2
  • [14:02:35] <mru> what fiola said
  • [14:02:39] <panto> but, yes, koen + 1
  • [14:03:14] <av500> +1
  • [14:03:19] <KotH> +0.5
  • [14:03:32] <av500> KotH: decide!
  • [14:03:38] <mru> which rounding mode?
  • [14:03:45] <koen> 'ifconfig' gets entered when I think "ip link"
  • [14:03:54] <fiola> koen: It did take a while, yes. The whole ifconfig/netstat/route thing had become instinctive, so the pain was great. Glad it's behind me now.
  • [14:03:54] <shapr> fiola: Is there a tutorial on switching from ifconfig to iproute2?
  • [14:04:03] <mru> iproute2 is more capable _and_ has more logical syntax
  • [14:04:12] <mru> shapr: man ip
  • [14:04:14] <av500> that never was a reason
  • [14:04:23] <av500> its like Betamax
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  • [14:04:31] <koen> more porn for ifconfig
  • [14:04:36] <av500> yep
  • [14:05:01] <KotH> av500: my quantumstate will not be measured!
  • [14:05:34] * mru observes KotH
  • [14:05:34] * vvu (~quassel@212.201.44.245) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [14:07:35] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) has joined #beagle
  • [14:07:52] * KotH colapses
  • [14:08:00] * av500 kills a kitten
  • [14:08:30] <fiola> shapr: iproute2 is more logically laid out, so you don't really need a full tutorial, just a few equivalent commands to replace the old stuff that is currently 2nd nature. eg. "ip addr ls", "ip link ls", "ip route ls" for the usual listings, does what you expect.
  • [14:08:32] * panto kills a kitten using KotH body
  • [14:09:27] <fiola> lol
  • [14:09:32] <fiola> ip kitten ls
  • [14:09:33] <mru> fiola: you don't need the 'ls' part in those commands
  • [14:09:36] <mru> it's the default
  • [14:09:42] <mru> kill -KITTEN KotH
  • [14:10:14] <fiola> Yeah, but it's good for showing the symmetry, because other commands go in the "ls" slot.
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  • [14:16:16] <Guser> I still fail to see a usb network interface. i have the kernel modules installed, but nothing shows up.
  • [14:16:39] <Sicelo> dmesg/syslog?
  • [14:17:08] <Guser> looks exactly the same as before http://pastebin.com/7YxMiLE7
  • [14:17:19] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  • [14:19:24] <Guser> fiola: any chance I could take a peak at your kernel config? perhaps I can find my mistake with a quick comparison
  • [14:19:25] <fiola> Guser: do a quick check that it's all enabled with gunzip -c /proc/config.gz | grep CDC
  • [14:19:58] <Guser> fiola: my kernel does not support that
  • [14:20:31] <fiola> Heh. Recommend you enable it next time you rebuild, it's handy :P
  • [14:20:45] <fiola> Just grep your .config
  • [14:20:46] * Jazzdude (andy@efnet.math.uwaterloo.ca) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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  • [14:21:18] <Guser> CONFIG_USB_NET_CDCETHER=m
  • [14:21:28] <Guser> should do the trick
  • [14:21:39] <Guser> but doesn't :-\
  • [14:23:37] <fiola> I have cdc_ether, cdc_acm (prolly unrelated), usbnet and rndis_host modules running.
  • [14:24:00] <fiola> Don't currently have it connected though, that's just residue from a couple days ago
  • [14:25:14] <fiola> Lemme ssh into that machine foir you, hang on
  • [14:25:56] * av500 feels that the FTDI should have stayed on the BBB
  • [14:25:59] <Guser> fiola: thanks
  • [14:26:11] <KotH> av500: wouldnt have be bad...
  • [14:26:16] * babak (~babak@80.191.40.36) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [14:27:40] <fiola> Guser: 3 modules seem to be involved, from lsmod | grep rndis
  • [14:27:48] <fiola> rndis_host 4790 0
  • [14:27:49] <fiola> cdc_ether 3504 1 rndis_host
  • [14:27:49] <fiola> usbnet 14810 2 rndis_host,cdc_ether
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  • [14:30:00] <Guser> fiola: I'm missing the rndis_host
  • [14:30:04] <Guser> adding now
  • [14:30:19] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [14:30:28] <fiola> Don't forget /proc/config.gz :P
  • [14:30:55] <Guser> lol, thanks!
  • [14:31:25] <fiola> It's just one of those "superfluous but awesomely handy" features :P
  • [14:32:52] <Guser> yeah, but I come from the security world and there the less options you have the better, especially those who can give out details about your system
  • [14:33:07] <Guser> not a good practice for home computing though...
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  • [14:37:33] <joel_> av500, _av500_: hey, its obvious that the bootloader problem I posted about can be solved trivially..I was just stating MMU as one of the options
  • [14:38:18] * taffy1881 (bea6aeea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.166.174.234) has joined #beagle
  • [14:38:22] <taffy1881> hello
  • [14:38:51] <taffy1881> i have beaglebone with ??ngstr??m Distribution
  • [14:39:06] <taffy1881> can i change for ubutun?
  • [14:40:32] <av500> sure
  • [14:40:39] <av500> even ubuntu
  • [14:41:09] <av500> joel_: still I dont see why a first stage boot loader should use the MMU to protect itself from its own stupidity
  • [14:41:33] <av500> also, k.i.s.s.
  • [14:43:07] * tudalex (~tudalex@173.234.237.188) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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  • [14:45:08] <fiola> A bootloader that uses the MMU sounds vaguely reminiscent of a microkernel. It's not a bad idea, but it's definitely not KISS. And someone could reasonably suggest that you'd still need a dumb loader to load the microkernel, nice recursive argument. :P
  • [14:46:07] <joel_> av500: yes, ofcourse there are more problems that memory overwrites ;) and MMU helps
  • [14:46:36] <joel_> some secure bootloaders use MMU to randomize the addresses in a certain mode to make it harder to break
  • [14:46:48] <joel_> s/that/than/
  • [14:48:00] <joel_> fiola: yes I agree with you, also some ROM's do use MMU for more security so its not really a new thing
  • [14:48:20] <joel_> av500: further the post hardly was about MMU but just in general about the exploit, I think we got carried away :(
  • [14:48:30] <fiola> All that "secure bootloader" stuff of recent years probably has more to do with vendors wanting to preserve their monopolies rather than actual security.
  • [14:48:32] <joel_> *wasn't
  • [14:48:35] <av500> never happens here :)
  • [14:48:44] <av500> fiola: well
  • [14:48:48] <av500> it can be secure
  • [14:48:54] <av500> as in making sure only your code runs
  • [14:49:02] <av500> a full secure boot chain works
  • [14:49:16] <av500> as the people that have the original motorola droid
  • [14:49:18] <av500> ask
  • [14:49:24] <av500> with secure omap3
  • [14:49:34] <av500> write a wrong bootloader -> brick
  • [14:51:20] <fiola> I guess it depends on one's definition of "works". If their requirement was to brick, then it was satisfied. I don't call that "work" though, I call it "break".
  • [14:51:58] * robtow (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) has joined #beagle
  • [14:52:08] <av500> it "works" in the sense to make sure only your SW runs
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  • [14:52:28] <fiola> As I said, monopoly preservation.
  • [14:52:50] <ufrn> Hi guys, first time here. So, I read that the size+addr of the ddr that's shared with the pru is supposed to be found in /sys/class/uio/uio0/maps/map2/ but I ionly have map0 and map1. Any ideas?
  • [14:53:14] <av500> fiola: that would imply the producer has a monopoly to preserve
  • [14:53:50] * tsjsieb (~hakkestee@siebj.xs4all.nl) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [14:53:52] <joel_> Its not only monopoly, it really depends on the application. Some times in certain devices such as point-of-sale, you'd not want _anyone_ to load untrusted code.
  • [14:53:53] * yegorich (3e911ef2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.145.30.242) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [14:54:09] <fiola> Not referring to market monopolies, but to the monopoly over control of what software is allowed to run.
  • [14:54:54] <fiola> joel_: Fair enough, but a droid isn't a point of sale terminal :P
  • [14:55:38] <joel_> fiola: yes I agree, some devices are intentionally made less hacker friendly but otherwise have a real application for it
  • [14:55:39] <janne_> av500: the original droid had actually a non-verifying bootloader, the international version didn't. the bootloader has probably exploitable bugs but nobody invested enough time to find one
  • [14:55:42] <joel_> *others
  • [14:59:11] <panto> ufrn, that's only a limition of the pruss uio driver
  • [14:59:48] <panto> there's lots of outdated information out there
  • [15:00:54] <ufrn> ah, I see
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  • [15:05:30] * ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
  • [15:05:45] <ka6sox> mourning
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  • [15:07:55] <fiola> moin moin
  • [15:08:26] <panto> mourning
  • [15:08:55] <fiola> panto: is there a roadmap for docs?
  • [15:09:05] <av500> janne_: stop confusing with facts :)
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  • [15:10:01] <panto> fiola, I plan to write up something today
  • [15:11:24] <fiola> Must be hard, because there an infinity of things that could usefully be documented, but one has to cut a thin path through them and focus on what is possible.
  • [15:12:56] <panto> don't remind me
  • [15:13:15] <fiola> :-)
  • [15:13:20] <fiola> Or perhaps :-(
  • [15:13:22] <Guser> fiola: a good plan is to write about the things that you are doing yourslef. thats the best way to get the documentation going :)
  • [15:14:51] <fiola> Guser: Yeah, but that's not the shortest path to reasonably complete product documentation. In fact, that's a recipe for the ultimate in sparseness :P
  • [15:15:13] * quad0 (~quad0@bas1-montreal23-1096601783.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  • [15:16:10] <Guser> fiola: true true. but it depends on who is doing the documentation. if it's random people from across the world, I think my way is pretty decent. if its the makers of the device/library then you're correct.
  • [15:16:12] <ka6sox> fiola, specifically what documentation are you referring to?
  • [15:16:40] * risc (~toor@freebsd/user/risc) has joined #beagle
  • [15:17:35] <fiola> ka6sox: Nothing in particular for me, but it's quite common for people to point out the lack of docs for BB*, and just above, panto said: <panto> there's lots of outdated information out there
  • [15:18:31] <ka6sox> fiola, we have an excellent wiki platform @ elinux.org that I'm sure if you ask for one, you can get an account there and help out making the doco compleat.
  • [15:19:48] <fiola> I don't think you can roadmap a wiki :P
  • [15:20:45] <SpeedEvil> of course you camk
  • [15:20:57] <SpeedEvil> getting people to stick to your roadmap...
  • [15:21:03] <fiola> Hehe
  • [15:21:19] <ka6sox> roadmap isn't as important as documenting what *is* first.
  • [15:21:29] * SpeedEvil wrote much of the n900 hardware documentayion,
  • [15:21:46] <SpeedEvil> on the wiki
  • [15:22:56] * m_billybob hisses
  • [15:24:09] <SpeedEvil> identify all the chips/busses on the device, and do a page for each
  • [15:24:10] <m_billybob> seems Derek Molloy put a new video out today for the BBW
  • [15:24:34] <SpeedEvil> can I find it by googling bbw video?
  • [15:24:40] <Guser> FINALLY! ITS WORKING. fiola, thank you so much for all the help... I also needed the CONFIG_USB_G_MULTI with rndis support.
  • [15:24:49] <fiola> Super :-))
  • [15:24:54] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [15:24:57] <panto> excellent!
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  • [15:27:02] <fiola> Fortunately Ubuntu and Debian peeps don't have such troubles, because the standard distro kernels have everything and the kitchen sink enabled. But Gentoo users typically do the opposite. However, we can also fix it. :P
  • [15:28:36] <ka6sox> Guser, fiola can you guys write this usb_rndis stuff up on the elinux.org wiki please?
  • [15:28:52] <ka6sox> if you guys aren't around people have to re-invent the wheel..every time.
  • [15:29:12] * Splats (~splats@c-50-136-218-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:29:14] <ka6sox> it doesnt' have to be pretty...we can get people to help with that...just the Facts :)
  • [15:29:16] * Splats (~splats@c-50-136-218-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Changing host)
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  • [15:29:53] <fiola> Yeah I'll help fill in. It's not fresh in my mind because I did all this configuration back at the time of BB white, but it'll come back.
  • [15:30:26] <ka6sox> fiola, if you don't have an account request one and I'm sure we can get you one quick.
  • [15:30:37] * rob_w (~bob@unaffiliated/rob-w/x-1112029) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  • [15:30:54] * panto tries the usb hotplug fix patch
  • [15:30:55] <fiola> And anyway, that's how wikis work, it's never complete to start with.
  • [15:31:12] <KotH> and half the stuff is wrong
  • [15:32:01] <panto> KotH, the nature of open source is that only the code is correct
  • [15:32:10] <panto> docs always lag
  • [15:32:10] <mru> if you're lucky
  • [15:32:14] <panto> true
  • [15:32:24] <panto> but the code is never more wrong than the docs :)
  • [15:32:33] <fiola> Code is never correct. The compiler should compile the comments :P
  • [15:32:53] <panto> I usually see more errors in the comments than in the code :)
  • [15:33:06] <av500> fiola: nothing to compile here then
  • [15:33:12] <fiola> Haha
  • [15:33:19] <fiola> It's fast! :P
  • [15:33:22] <av500> yes
  • [15:34:59] <ka6sox> fiola, mru something is better than having folks twist in the wind and go away searching for answers...the are out there...but spread all over the universe :P
  • [15:35:16] <ka6sox> (and a lot of them are wrong)
  • [15:35:19] <panto> seems to work
  • [15:35:32] <ka6sox> for small values of "seems to work"
  • [15:35:43] <panto> always
  • [15:35:54] <KotH> does anyone know, whether with usb one has to reset the device address to zero on bus reset?
  • [15:36:07] * KotH cannot find it in the std
  • [15:36:13] <koen> panto: ah, that usb fix dropped of my radar after I blew it away in a rebase :(
  • [15:36:23] <panto> heh
  • [15:36:28] <panto> pushing to my tree now
  • [15:39:20] <m_billybob> SpeedEvil, you can find it by searching Derek Molloy on youtube ;)
  • [15:40:25] <panto> ugh, still fscks up missing removal events
  • [15:40:51] <panto> oh well, there's so fscking much changes in musb in the pipeline...
  • [15:40:51] <fiola> ka6sox: In a cosmic sense, "the answers are out there". The trouble is, nobody has the infinite time to find them and separate the wheat from the chaff **while at the same time trying to learn** --- it may not even be possible because you may not recognized the info that you don't yet know.
  • [15:41:30] <ka6sox> fiola, which is why I'm trying to get the best doco from all sources into the elinux.org wiki.
  • [15:41:45] <fiola> Aye, worthwhile plan.
  • [15:41:46] <av500> panto: wait for Linus to get fed up with MUSB churn.....
  • [15:42:01] <panto> -ENUKEITFROMORBIT
  • [15:42:18] <av500> he will demand a stable binary API and a driver in the DT blod :)
  • [15:42:19] <av500> blob
  • [15:43:03] <ka6sox> if he wants to lower the churn...he should stop issuing . releases ever 3-10 days :P
  • [15:43:14] <ka6sox> s/ever/every/
  • [15:45:38] * melvin_ (500ea0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.14.160.235) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [15:45:58] <koen> felipebalbi: do you know if/when Ravi is ready to post the MUSB/DMA patchset for 3.8+ ?
  • [15:46:06] <fiola> Rate of change is only going to increase, not decrease, so I think we can expect more multicoloured fireworks from dear Linus :P
  • [15:46:41] <panto> "all these different arches give me a headache, I want a multi-arch-platform kernel"
  • [15:46:51] <mru> teal and orange!
  • [15:46:52] <ka6sox> there is no such concept as a "stable point release" in the kernel...
  • [15:47:21] * ka6sox thinks he will make his blog teal and orange....
  • [15:47:30] <av500> +100
  • [15:47:43] <dm8tbr> :D
  • [15:48:49] <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 2 new commits to 3.8: http://git.io/6vp7zg
  • [15:48:49] <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 fe2b9ed Koen Kooi: 3.8: add support for TPS65217 interupts...
  • [15:48:49] <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 35a3aba Koen Kooi: 3.8: add usb hotplug fix...
  • [15:48:52] <fiola> In the end (but not tomorrow), it'll all lead exactly to where Linus is adamant that he doesn't want to go ... microkernels :P
  • [15:49:23] <panto> I doubt it
  • [15:50:14] <panto> but yeah, maybe if they go diving with Tannembaum one day...
  • [15:50:30] <thurgood> heh minux for all!!!
  • [15:51:41] <fiola> It will, for engineering reasons. The kernel growth is unstoppable, and it'll be judged that the only way to keep it maintainable is to split it up. Of course, it won't initially be called the first glimmers of a microkernel approach ... that would never do.
  • [15:52:14] <av500> all we need is a stable driver API
  • [15:52:32] <av500> and LHQL
  • [15:52:51] <panto> fiola, I think we're going the other way, it's the h/w that will be simplified
  • [15:53:11] <av500> right
  • [15:53:12] <panto> one way to slim things out is to drop outdated platforms/boards
  • [15:53:35] <mru> you mean common interfaces like ehci that somehow still need per-vendor drivers?
  • [15:53:44] <panto> no, that's USB
  • [15:53:49] <av500> or musb
  • [15:53:49] <panto> it's insane by definition
  • [15:53:54] <fiola> Hehe
  • [15:53:56] <av500> that need per SoC drivers
  • [15:54:09] <fiola> You guys really hate USB, huh. ^_^
  • [15:54:25] <panto> it's not hate, it's payback
  • [15:54:26] <mru> ahci is like that too
  • [15:54:41] * f11f12 (~f11f12@213.246.201.50) Quit (Quit: ziiiip)
  • [15:54:47] <mru> and ac97 and its successor hda
  • [15:55:15] <av500> I2S forever
  • [15:55:35] <av500> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_computer_science
  • [15:55:46] <av500> hmm, one could add "working musb driver" there...
  • [15:55:54] <av500> nah, too hard
  • [15:55:55] <ka6sox> av500, +1
  • [15:56:13] <mru> doesn't that fall under the generic usb entry?
  • [15:56:18] <mru> there is one, right?
  • [15:57:06] <ka6sox> can musb be separated from usb and still survive?
  • [15:57:16] <narcos> I wish the bone had an RTC clock
  • [15:57:30] <jacekowski> narcos: afaik, it does
  • [15:57:38] <jacekowski> narcos: there is no battery to back it up though
  • [15:58:09] <panto> yep
  • [15:58:29] <panto> it's trivial to add an i2c rtc
  • [15:58:33] <av500> yep
  • [15:58:37] <av500> DS1307
  • [15:58:42] <panto> maybe an RTC cape would make sense
  • [15:58:50] <av500> a capelet
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  • [15:59:03] <koen> ds1307 is usualy 5V only
  • [15:59:04] <m_billybob> trivial to add a battery too though right ?
  • [15:59:10] * voe (~voe@c-69-181-52-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:59:17] <m_billybob> the rtc is on the CPU btw
  • [15:59:39] <panto> http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/DS1337-DS1337C.pdf
  • [15:59:41] <narcos> jacekowski: Ahhh ok
  • [15:59:50] * jpirko (jirka@nat/redhat/x-aekqjlshbtbliycx) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:00:00] <panto> 1.8V-5.5V
  • [16:00:07] <narcos> So, as billybob asked, is it trivial to add a battery?
  • [16:00:20] <Guser> ka6sox I can write up my findings so far, I can email it to you or pastebin it if you like (it will take some time though)
  • [16:00:22] <av500> dont we miss the PMIC battery pins?
  • [16:00:37] <panto> narcos, there's no space for it on the board
  • [16:00:46] <panto> no idea if you can solder it somewhere
  • [16:01:02] <narcos> OK
  • [16:01:03] <m_billybob> battery backup could be done at least a couple ways though
  • [16:01:42] <m_billybob> UPS style or by using the battery pads off the board
  • [16:01:46] <Guser> ka6sox I think the gentoo wiki will be a more suitable place because most people with other distros will not encounter these problems (as fiola mentioned earlier)
  • [16:01:54] <narcos> I see there's a battery cape, but it's rather bulky
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  • [16:03:32] <ka6sox> Guser, others are asking for this on *this* platform (rndis)
  • [16:03:42] <ka6sox> sending them off to a Gentoo Wiki doesn't make sense.
  • [16:03:49] <fiola> Guser: I agree. However, we can still put a generic note on eLinux.org which applies to all distros, just naming the modules that need to run and the kernel CONFIG_ lines.
  • [16:04:41] <ka6sox> Guser, fiola Angstrom is a Source Based distro...just like Gentoo...based upon OpenEmbedded...
  • [16:04:46] <Guser> ka6sox: if others are asking about it then I totaly agree. I'll write some document about it tomorrow. How would you like me to pass it to you?
  • [16:05:01] <Nite> Anyone know if the Beagle Bone Black is plug compatible to work with the Leopard-Imaging LBCM3M1 camera (3M)? Was digging through specs trying to determine... Haven't found it yet.
  • [16:05:06] <av500> ka6sox: other distros are written in hexedit?
  • [16:05:21] <ka6sox> Guser, ask for an account on the elinux.org wiki and put it there...we can prettify it later.
  • [16:06:08] <ka6sox> the important thing is to get the information where people can find it...
  • [16:06:20] * m_billybob nods
  • [16:06:52] <Guser> ka6sox: I understand. as long as it gets indexed by google I don't think it matters on which URL it resides.
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  • [16:07:05] <fiola> Bah, elinux.org isn't on IPv6. How retro. :P
  • [16:07:06] <Guser> ka6sox: where do I ask for an account?
  • [16:07:34] * Guser doesn't ever have ipv6 support on his kernel :|
  • [16:07:56] <Guser> *even
  • [16:08:05] * m_billybob disables ipv6 on his machines first chance he gets.
  • [16:08:29] <fiola> I disable IPv4 every chance I get :P
  • [16:08:32] <m_billybob> on a server though . . . why i do that doesnt make sense
  • [16:08:32] <Guser> lol
  • [16:08:57] <av500> v6 is a passing fad
  • [16:09:05] <Guser> fiola, there's no place like 127.0.0.1
  • [16:09:17] <m_billybob> localhost ?
  • [16:09:21] * m_billybob winks
  • [16:09:24] <Guser> or home.. ;)
  • [16:09:31] <thurgood> I always associate that with localhost, not home
  • [16:09:48] <m_billybob> same but it made sense to me
  • [16:09:55] <mru> thurgood: +1
  • [16:10:02] <fiola> IPv6 has been the official *current* version of IP since last June. IPv4 is the *previous* version, techies should be fleeing it in droves :D
  • [16:10:04] <ka6sox> Guser go to the wiki and look at the headline banner
  • [16:10:08] <ka6sox> it says how to do it
  • [16:10:15] <Guser> kk
  • [16:10:49] * bearsh|work (~quassel@189-92.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:11:49] <thurgood> he issue with ipv6 is soho adoption
  • [16:12:16] <fiola> Crappy ISPs dragging their heels.
  • [16:12:29] <m_billybob> fiola, along the lines of "techies" though, for those who wish to surf anonymously . . . ipv6 kind of ruins that
  • [16:12:30] <ka6sox> fiola, conversion cost is not going to be cheap
  • [16:12:39] <thurgood> ... routers that don't support it
  • [16:13:31] * Nite (18b790ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.183.144.234) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [16:13:35] <fiola> thurgood: that used to be the excuse, but it's not any longer. The current generation of commodity routers all support it, both on cable and on *DSL. And the prices are no different.
  • [16:13:50] * old-papa (~ident@206.251.40.208) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [16:14:04] <panto> too bad all consumer level routers are crap
  • [16:14:18] <mru> that's why I build my own
  • [16:14:20] <thurgood> not everyone has a current gen router, or wantsto replace their for something they don't understand
  • [16:14:35] <ka6sox> its all those lousy little SoCs that don't have enough grunt.
  • [16:14:42] <panto> and no memory
  • [16:14:46] <ka6sox> ya
  • [16:14:55] <mru> mine's a dual core2 with 2GB ram
  • [16:14:59] <av500> not enough
  • [16:15:04] <mru> enough for me
  • [16:15:06] <ka6sox> not enough
  • [16:15:07] <thurgood> anyway. gots to give my holiday and head to work
  • [16:15:10] <panto> ffs you got routers with gigabit interfaces and a stupid 16MB of ram
  • [16:15:16] <fiola> And there is no real "conversion" to be done in the core network, as all the backbone providers have been running IPv6-capable equipment for a decade. Plus, IPv6 isn't a *replacement*, it's just an addition running in parallel, so there's little to be changed.
  • [16:15:28] * thurgood (~thurgood@cpe-70-113-204-247.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:15:30] <panto> running a POS VxWorks release
  • [16:15:47] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [16:15:47] <ka6sox> fiola, remember the little thing called memory
  • [16:15:47] <av500> if all the unused v4 would be given back, we could run for another decade
  • [16:15:57] <ka6sox> those 4:6 6:4 conversions take LOTS of that.
  • [16:16:30] <panto> I wonder if a modem cape would make sense
  • [16:16:48] <panto> the bone is plenty fast for switching DSL
  • [16:16:50] <av500> 3g modem
  • [16:16:51] <av500> yes
  • [16:16:54] <fiola> ka6sox: most ISPs replace the home routers periodically anyway, so more memory comes with the territory. But yeah, it is a limitation on old equipment.
  • [16:17:10] <panto> no, not 3g, normal landline modem
  • [16:17:29] <ka6sox> panto, yes, we can do it...
  • [16:17:30] <av500> right
  • [16:17:38] <av500> bitbang it on the pru
  • [16:17:38] <panto> you could even avoid the stupid management crap they run on routers nowadays
  • [16:17:44] <panto> av500, err, no :)
  • [16:17:51] <av500> err, yes
  • [16:18:05] <panto> ok, depends on what you'll bitbang
  • [16:18:16] <av500> anything
  • [16:19:38] <fiola> Yay! If you're proposing to make a future BB* have two Ethernets and be featured as a communications device, the interest will be huge! The entire WRT community, for starters.
  • [16:20:41] <fiola> Hell, I'd buy half a dozen just to make a distributed firewall router.
  • [16:20:55] <panto> baby steps
  • [16:21:07] <av500> why not buy a routerboard that openwrt already supports?
  • [16:21:12] <mru> +1
  • [16:21:17] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.8devices.com/wifi4things/carambola2 Or get that
  • [16:21:21] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [16:21:29] <SpeedEvil> (only if your CPU use is very limited)
  • [16:21:36] <fiola> Because those aren't BB? :P
  • [16:21:46] <av500> or get several BBBs and hook them together
  • [16:22:00] <SpeedEvil> Quite
  • [16:22:00] <av500> make a PRU/GPMS high speed backbone
  • [16:22:00] <panto> av500, cause routing is only one of the things I might want to do
  • [16:22:07] <panto> lol
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  • [16:23:56] <fiola> The PHYs would have to be gig-e though. In UK and a lot of Europe at least, regular ISPs are already working beyond 100Mbps.
  • [16:24:56] * thurgood (~thurgood@64.132.24.36) has joined #beagle
  • [16:25:03] <panto> http://www.ikanos.com/products/broadband-dsl/ikanos-velocity/
  • [16:25:10] <panto> for example
  • [16:25:21] <panto> too bad they are nazis with their docs
  • [16:26:16] * MrMobius (~Joey@194.176.111.132) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [16:27:00] * SpeedEvil sighs.
  • [16:27:19] * SpeedEvil looks at his 2.2Mbit connection.
  • [16:27:29] <mru> down?
  • [16:27:48] <SpeedEvil> yes
  • [16:27:52] <SpeedEvil> 488k up
  • [16:28:07] <mru> that's grim
  • [16:28:28] <SpeedEvil> Next year allegedly the phone network is being modernised.
  • [16:28:57] <ka6sox> SpeedEvil, are you urban or rural?
  • [16:29:08] * ant___ (~ant@host54-128-static.10-188-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:29:23] <SpeedEvil> My line has 63dB of attenuation.
  • [16:29:51] <ka6sox> long way from the CO
  • [16:29:59] <SpeedEvil> about 6km long.
  • [16:30:29] * Rickta59 (~Rickta59@cpe-174-106-144-066.ec.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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  • [16:30:37] <panto> say, GMII clock is 125MHz isn't it?
  • [16:30:55] <panto> could you pump it out from a PRU?
  • [16:31:04] <bahman> can I program beaglebone black by simulink?
  • [16:31:16] <ka6sox> panto, using the serial FIFO's probably
  • [16:31:19] * vvu (~vvu@212.201.44.245) has joined #beagle
  • [16:31:29] <ka6sox> but I'm not sure thats a clock value that is supported
  • [16:31:45] <ka6sox> bahman, what are you asking?
  • [16:31:52] <bahman> can I program beaglebone black by simulink?
  • [16:32:13] <ka6sox> restating it doesn't clarify anything.
  • [16:32:21] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
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  • [16:32:54] <ka6sox> morning emeb_mac
  • [16:33:09] <emeb_mac> howdy!
  • [16:33:21] <bahman> i know ornginal beagleboard can be programed by simulink
  • [16:33:44] <ka6sox> bahman, what interface does it use to do this?
  • [16:34:56] <fiola> Quality of answers is proportional to the quality of questions.
  • [16:35:01] <panto> GMII is 125MHz with 8 data lanes
  • [16:35:14] <ka6sox> panto, probably not
  • [16:35:23] <ka6sox> thats less than 2 cycles
  • [16:35:40] <bahman> what's max PWM frequency I can get from the beagleboard black
  • [16:35:43] <panto> yeah
  • [16:36:15] <ka6sox> bahman, probably same as BBW
  • [16:36:29] <ka6sox> (or close)
  • [16:36:42] <bahman> what's that frequency?
  • [16:37:05] <ka6sox> LMGTFY
  • [16:37:32] <ka6sox> thats going to be in spruh73g.pdf
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  • [16:46:33] <ka6sox> mru, whats the holiday in the UK today?
  • [16:46:51] <mru> Spring Bank Holiday
  • [16:47:04] <mranostay> sounds like a blast
  • [16:47:19] * robtow (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [16:48:21] <ogra_> you have banks for springs in the UK ?
  • [16:48:30] <ogra_> impressive
  • [16:48:58] * MrMike (4c63f5c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.99.245.195) has joined #beagle
  • [16:49:01] <MrMike> hi
  • [16:49:21] <MrMike> anybody home?
  • [16:49:44] <ka6sox> no
  • [16:49:48] <ka6sox> I"m on holiday
  • [16:49:54] <MrMike> same here
  • [16:50:24] <MrMike> got some noob questions, if you can stomach a noob today
  • [16:50:53] * _troll_ eats MrMike
  • [16:50:57] * ka6sox takes maalox
  • [16:51:18] <MrMike> ha
  • [16:51:20] <MrMike> nice
  • [16:51:43] <ka6sox> Go ahead...we don't bite (much)
  • [16:52:09] <mru> and now that the troll has been fed...
  • [16:52:14] <MrMike> awesome. so I want to use a Beaglebone Black for industrial control, digital and analog I/O and of course HMI
  • [16:52:26] <ka6sox> what is HMI?
  • [16:52:35] <ka6sox> Hughes Medical Institute?
  • [16:52:36] <MrMike> what compiler should use, for one?
  • [16:52:45] <MrMike> you have to really bear with me, I a 100% new
  • [16:52:47] <ka6sox> what distro are you using?
  • [16:52:59] <MrMike> haven't even gotten there yet
  • [16:53:18] <ka6sox> toolchain is dependent on distribution used.
  • [16:53:36] <MrMike> I guess I would the latest distribution?
  • [16:54:06] * vvu (~vvu@212.201.44.245) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:54:31] <ogra_> ka6sox, you mean not all distros use the linaro toolchain nowadays ?
  • [16:54:41] <ka6sox> its just like standards...there are many to choose from...
  • [16:55:15] <panto> brb
  • [16:55:15] * panto (~panto@195.97.110.117) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:55:37] <MrMike> I see
  • [16:55:40] <ka6sox> MrMike, I'm not being snarky...seriously...there are more than a few..and they all use different toolchains.
  • [16:56:04] <MrMike> so I have to pick an appropriate distro for my application, I see
  • [16:56:07] <ka6sox> start here: http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBone#BeagleBone_Operating_Systems
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  • [16:57:06] <ka6sox> ogra_, unfortunately there are a bagzillion of those too...
  • [16:57:09] <MrMike> so the distro s like the op sys?
  • [16:57:13] <MrMike> *is
  • [16:57:15] <ogra_> ka6sox, heh, true
  • [16:57:21] <SpeedEvil> MrMike: exactly
  • [16:57:25] <MrMike> gotcha
  • [16:57:36] * panto (~panto@195.97.110.117) has joined #beagle
  • [16:57:43] <MrMike> well for industrial control, what is a decent one?
  • [16:57:49] <ka6sox> MrMike, can you tell us a bit about what you want this to do?
  • [16:57:58] <ka6sox> industrial control covers a LOT of waterfront.
  • [16:58:03] <ogra_> ka6sox, well, at least ubuntu, fedora and debian should be close on linaro toolchain versions
  • [16:58:26] <ogra_> (version wise i mean)
  • [16:58:34] <ogra_> err, so i said
  • [16:58:41] <ka6sox> ogra_, we *are* talking about embedded space...so YMMV
  • [16:58:44] <MrMike> I will be running a PID loop, firing digital outputs, reading dgital inputs, and reading analog inputs
  • [16:59:11] <ogra_> ka6sox, right, for embedded space neither of these is suited
  • [16:59:13] <ka6sox> sounds like a job for a Arduino, MSP
  • [16:59:28] <MrMike> basically doing what many people use PLCs for
  • [16:59:30] <ka6sox> or the PRUs in a Bone.
  • [16:59:51] <ka6sox> 20# Sledgehammer to kill a flea.
  • [17:00:10] <ka6sox> but I digress...
  • [17:00:21] <ka6sox> yes, its probably able to do that quite well...
  • [17:01:08] <MrMike> so the beagle is overkill for what I am doing?
  • [17:01:35] <ka6sox> unless the pid loop is running in the uS region...
  • [17:01:50] <MrMike> hmmm
  • [17:02:50] <ka6sox> how fast do the changes happen in the PID loop?
  • [17:03:29] <MrMike> I run a new calc once per second
  • [17:03:55] <SpeedEvil> For low speed stuff - there is no especial reason why BBB isn't usable. It's overkill, but...
  • [17:03:56] * robtow (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) has joined #beagle
  • [17:04:22] <SpeedEvil> As long as it's not very critical.
  • [17:04:24] <MrMike> I mean for $45, I don't feel like I am wasting much money even if it is overkill
  • [17:04:29] <SpeedEvil> Don't use for life-critical stuff
  • [17:04:46] <MrMike> why not?
  • [17:04:46] <SpeedEvil> 'normal' OSs are very poorly designed for embedded.
  • [17:05:01] <mru> would you trust your life to a $45 gadget?
  • [17:05:23] <panto> mru, is reliability a function of price?
  • [17:05:24] <SpeedEvil> You don't want it scanning for new song tracks and that process hitting a bug and using up all memory, killing your control task, for example.
  • [17:05:35] <MrMike> I see
  • [17:05:37] <panto> either the design meets engineering requirements or not
  • [17:05:56] <mru> panto: sometimes it is
  • [17:05:56] <SpeedEvil> So the first task would generally be to kill absolutely all nonessential services.
  • [17:05:58] <ka6sox> MrMike, my big concern is the overhead introduced by the OS to what you want to do.
  • [17:06:09] <MrMike> can't I disable all the extras?
  • [17:06:47] <ka6sox> MrMike, the linux kernel is not a "RealTime" kernel...its a "Best Effort Scheduling system"
  • [17:06:49] * robtow1 (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [17:06:58] <MrMike> man I have a lot to learn
  • [17:07:07] <MrMike> I am a mechanical engineer, never took a computer class
  • [17:07:13] <Defiant> mru: more than to a 400 Euro iphone
  • [17:07:14] <MrMike> well one, but that was mainly fortran, LOL
  • [17:07:32] * tcort (~tcort@gentoo/contributor/tcort) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [17:07:35] <mru> Defiant: neither is designed for that kind of reliability
  • [17:07:39] <MrMike> I used emacs and fortran, you guys can stop laughing now haha
  • [17:07:44] <panto> MrMike, that also means you didn't pick up any bad habits
  • [17:07:49] <panto> fortran is fine
  • [17:07:51] <MrMike> true
  • [17:08:01] <ka6sox> panto, +1
  • [17:08:02] <panto> for what it does it's excellent
  • [17:08:14] <Rickta59> does the industrial machine has spinning blade or flames MrMike ?
  • [17:08:22] <ogra_> mru, well, there are hospitals using Win XP machines for patient monitorin in this world
  • [17:08:22] <panto> or sharks?
  • [17:08:38] <mru> ogra_: and patients have died as a result
  • [17:08:45] <ka6sox> MrMike, all I'm saying is that you have a LOT to learn for a relatively simple task...
  • [17:08:51] <mru> also, who would trust their life to a hospital?
  • [17:08:54] <ogra_> yeah, minor detail
  • [17:09:31] <MrMike> it's not that life-critical, see what it does is re-al time scan crowds of innocent people looking for recognized terrorists and when it finds one, servo-controls a mini-gun to take him out
  • [17:09:43] <panto> excellent
  • [17:09:44] <MrMike> so it's not like a big deal for it to work or anything
  • [17:09:47] <ka6sox> MrMike, now if you told me you wanted to display all this in some pretty JS thing and control it then maybe...(over the web)
  • [17:09:59] <panto> have you worked for the Bush admin btw?
  • [17:10:03] <ogra_> well, you want at least the targeting mechanism to work reliably
  • [17:10:28] <MrMike> it's for a vacuum dryer
  • [17:10:28] <Rickta59> a mini-gun? that is 3d printed i hope
  • [17:10:30] <ogra_> to avoid too big collateral damage ... as that gets you bad press
  • [17:11:11] <MrMike> what do most people use beagles for?
  • [17:11:18] <Rickta59> what happens if the control loop fails do you lose a lot of money?
  • [17:11:29] <MrMike> are they mainly learning tools as opposed to industrial controllers?
  • [17:11:51] <Rickta59> lots of people see it as a inexpensive network interface for other mcu devices
  • [17:11:55] <MrMike> whenever something fails, it's not real good
  • [17:12:04] <MrMike> mcu?
  • [17:12:11] <Rickta59> well if i burn pancakes i don't feel bad
  • [17:12:16] <ka6sox> MrMike, there are applications for it in the industrial space...but what you are talking about doing is easier done with other platforms.
  • [17:12:26] <MrMike> cool
  • [17:12:31] <ka6sox> (no OS to get in the way)
  • [17:12:37] <Rickta59> if i screw up setting a $500 worth of vaccum bagged epoxy i would
  • [17:13:14] <MrMike> so I need to be looking more at like embedded c stuff?
  • [17:13:14] <Rickta59> mcu like .. avr/msp430/arm cortex
  • [17:13:17] <ka6sox> MrMike, if you want to use the power of the Bone to do display and human interaction then ya, its worth doing.
  • [17:13:32] <ka6sox> what Rickta59 said...
  • [17:14:21] <panto> otoh you could conceivably develop on the bone
  • [17:14:32] <panto> and not need a dev box if you do simple stuff
  • [17:14:33] * falstaff (~quassel@62-12-254-203.pool.cyberlink.ch) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [17:15:06] <ka6sox> 1 PRU could probably do the whole job.
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  • [17:15:36] <Rickta59> I snagged one to see if it could replace a desktop for the g/f
  • [17:16:10] <Rickta59> and also to check out the pru stuff and display capabilties
  • [17:16:14] <MrMike> did it work Rick
  • [17:16:24] <Rickta59> and because it is netwrok enabled
  • [17:16:32] <Rickta59> hmm .. i've hit a few snags
  • [17:17:04] <Rickta59> i thought a hdmi->vga adpatper would work but it seems after i bought the non-powered one i should have gone for the powered vga-hdmi adapter
  • [17:17:07] <MrMike> so it really sounds like I need a board that is more geared towards industry than towards education and hacking
  • [17:17:49] <Rickta59> the hardware itself is a good mix .. but may be overkill
  • [17:18:29] <Rickta59> but .. you won't have to add anytthing to it likeyou might with a smaller solution
  • [17:18:37] <m_billybob> Rick so no hdmi love for you yet eh ? How are those USB hubs workign otu for you so far ?
  • [17:18:46] <Rickta59> hubs are good
  • [17:18:48] <MrMike> thanks for the info guys
  • [17:18:48] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: emeb_mac)
  • [17:19:15] <Rickta59> all my monitors are > 4 years old none have hdmi
  • [17:19:28] <Rickta59> it would just work i think if i had a new monitor
  • [17:19:34] <mru> do they have dvi?
  • [17:19:44] <m_billybob> ah, i do recall someone saying they got hdmi adapter workign though hmm
  • [17:19:47] <Rickta59> the free one i had just had vga
  • [17:20:01] <Rickta59> the one i really use as dvi and didn't want to sacrafice it to the beagle
  • [17:20:02] * MrMike (4c63f5c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.99.245.195) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [17:20:25] <Rickta59> an hdmi -> dvi requires nothing other than signal pin translation?
  • [17:20:57] <m_billybob> dont rightly know good question
  • [17:21:15] <mru> hdmi and dvi are electrically equivalent
  • [17:21:20] <Rickta59> i think i read some place that dvi and hdmi were really the same just with diffent pins
  • [17:21:25] <mru> it's a simple pin adaptor
  • [17:21:33] <m_billybob> well hdmi has audio too right ?
  • [17:21:39] <m_billybob> but yeah
  • [17:21:41] <mru> same pins
  • [17:21:52] <mru> that's a higher-level thing
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  • [17:22:06] <mru> you can feed audio into a plain dvi display and it will ignore it
  • [17:22:15] <Rickta59> so in theory an hdmi->dvi would work fine?
  • [17:23:15] <m_billybob> I've sen one guy talkign about it on the groups i believe he finaly got it workign ? but not sure
  • [17:23:40] <Rickta59> in the SRM it shows a DVI connector so I'm assuming that is fine
  • [17:23:59] <ka6sox> DVI-D
  • [17:24:09] <m_billybob> yeah but apparently and i dont know why exactly some or like many ? monitors dont work with the bbb hdmi
  • [17:24:26] * emeb (~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [17:25:15] <m_billybob> nt ure if its an initial resolution thing or what.
  • [17:26:19] * kelvinji (~kelvinji@183.37.136.28) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:27:45] <mru> let's ignore the vga pins in DVI-I/A
  • [17:28:04] * qdk (~qdk@188.120.76.162) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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  • [17:29:43] <m_billybob> what does a decent hdmi cable cost now days anyhow ? I've never used hdmi but now has a few hdmi capable systems
  • [17:30:11] * gustavoz (~gustavoz@host94.190-138-226.telecom.net.ar) has joined #beagle
  • [17:30:22] <SpeedEvil> $2
  • [17:30:50] <SpeedEvil> its digital, if it works at all, its fine.
  • [17:31:08] <SpeedEvil> (unless it's to be moved around a lot)
  • [17:31:11] <m_billybob> SpeedEvil, and the type I would need would be the celphone like cables, or is it somethign else ?
  • [17:31:26] <Rickta59> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1322 like that
  • [17:31:30] <m_billybob> just saw one on google quick serc for like $6
  • [17:31:58] <Rickta59> that is on the high end of cost
  • [17:32:05] <Rickta59> but i had it in a couple of days
  • [17:32:13] <m_billybob> well ive seen some just now that go as high as $40
  • [17:32:27] <SpeedEvil> those are basically for idiots
  • [17:32:31] <m_billybob> probably not micro to normal though
  • [17:32:37] <SpeedEvil> unless they are rugged
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  • [17:36:56] * m_billybob is currently trying ot figure out why the screen on his debian dev machnie keep coming on once in a while
  • [17:37:46] <m_billybob> headscratcher this, onlyway i use it is through ssh, and its CLI only.
  • [17:38:32] <m_billybob> SpeedEvil, thanks :)
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  • [17:46:52] <Rickta59> so .. i just tried on my tv .. works fine
  • [17:47:12] <Rickta59> boots up into a desktop
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  • [17:49:10] <mastiff> arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lssp
  • [17:52:01] * kelvinji (~kelvinji@183.37.132.114) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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  • [17:54:37] <thurgood> mastiff, if you're doing native building.. did you install sdk-task-native
  • [17:55:17] <thurgood> err task-sdk-native
  • [17:57:12] <mastiff> I did not
  • [17:57:56] <mastiff> i'm trying to compile systemd-204
  • [17:58:15] <thurgood> in oe or on the board?
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  • [18:00:12] <mastiff> on the board, it's a dependency for rtl-sdr
  • [18:00:54] <mastiff> fails during make
  • [18:01:31] <mastiff> with the "cannot find -lssp" error
  • [18:02:07] <thurgood> is there a libssp in the requirements?
  • [18:03:31] <mastiff> how do I check that? ./configure completed after installing other requirements that it complained about
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  • [18:05:02] <thurgood> first install task-sdk-native if you're going to do native compilation... I would advise using a cross compiling toolchain instead... but you're free to do it how you want
  • [18:05:04] <mastiff> I don't see libssp in /usr/bin/, and opkg didn't find it either
  • [18:05:37] <mastiff> Ok, can you suggest a link for background reading on that topic.
  • [18:05:52] <thurgood> if that doesn't fix it you can manually install libssp0.. that's probably what it's looking for
  • [18:05:58] <mastiff> i'll go ahead and install task-sdk-native to start with
  • [18:06:01] <mastiff> ok
  • [18:06:49] <mastiff> thanks
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  • [18:09:28] <thurgood> task-sdk-native is a fairly large meta-package go grab a coffee :)
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  • [18:11:24] <koen> rtl-sdr requires systemd-204?
  • [18:11:29] <koen> that was releases last week
  • [18:11:47] * koen highly doubts that rtl-sdr depends on such a recent systemd
  • [18:11:52] <koen> actually
  • [18:11:59] <koen> I doubt that it depends on systemd *at all*
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  • [18:12:52] <mastiff> not directly, one of the other dependcies for rtl-sdr
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  • [18:18:46] <mastiff> ./configure for rtl-sdr fails with "No package 'libusb-1.0 found"
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  • [18:44:30] * KotH yawns
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  • [18:47:38] <Sy_> Hello, does anyone know of a package that will enable floating I/P for Angstrom ?
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  • [18:47:58] <ka6sox> Sy_, what do you mean by that?
  • [18:49:02] <Sy_> Ok, you have two servers configured in multi-master mode, one is the backup for the other, the clients connect to one of them using a floating I/P, the I/P address flips between which ever server is deemed to be the current master
  • [18:49:15] <Sy_> so if one dies the I/P transfers to the other automatically.
  • [18:49:31] * kiilo (~kiilo@h25n3-g-kt-d1.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #beagle
  • [18:49:34] <Sy_> There is something called heartbeat for other flavours of linux which does htis.
  • [18:49:36] <KotH> Sy_: start with writing IP instead of I/P, so people might have a chance to understand you
  • [18:49:48] <Sy_> ok, sorry
  • [18:49:56] <KotH> Sy_: and see whether there is a heartbeat package for anstr??m, if not, compile one yourself
  • [18:50:05] <KotH> ansgstr??m
  • [18:50:11] <KotH> gah...
  • [18:50:11] <LetoThe2nd> angst rom.
  • [18:50:18] <KotH> ignor my spelling
  • [18:50:29] <Sy_> I'll have a look tomorrow, see if I can find the source code to heartbeat
  • [18:50:32] <LetoThe2nd> KotH: even more than usual?
  • [18:50:38] <KotH> yeah.. even more than usual
  • [18:51:01] <LetoThe2nd> \o/
  • [18:51:03] <KotH> didnt have enough spice and chocolate today
  • [18:51:11] <LetoThe2nd> poor you
  • [18:51:13] <ka6sox> KotH, send chocolate
  • [18:51:26] <KotH> ka6sox: nah! i keep that formyself
  • [18:51:40] <ka6sox> KotH, hoarder
  • [18:51:43] <fiola> KotH: spice? Seriously? What spice do you like with chocolate?
  • [18:51:47] <KotH> which reminds me.. i have to buy chocolate tomorrow
  • [18:52:05] <KotH> fiola: you are not very literate, are you?
  • [18:52:21] <fiola> More so than you
  • [18:52:28] <KotH> fiola: you dont seem to know who LetoThe2nd is
  • [18:52:37] <fiola> Correct
  • [18:52:45] <KotH> google for leto the second
  • [18:52:53] <KotH> then buy the books
  • [18:52:56] <KotH> then read them all
  • [18:52:57] <fiola> Knowledge and literacy are two different concepts
  • [18:53:00] * robtow (~robtow@184-105-177-98.static.hilltopinternet.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [18:53:00] <KotH> 4) profit
  • [18:53:41] <ka6sox> KotH, went straight to #4?
  • [18:53:44] <ka6sox> whoa...
  • [18:53:51] <ka6sox> #notexactsteps
  • [18:54:08] <KotH> #approximatesteps
  • [18:54:37] * KotH needs more atomic clocks
  • [18:55:04] * kelvinji (~kelvinji@183.37.130.46) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [18:55:24] * LetoThe2nd disables KotH's atomic clocks via CONFIG_PM
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  • [18:58:08] <fiola> OK, so Leto Atreides was the 2nd, I didn't recall that. But I happen to have the whole series on the shelf in front of me. Loved the books and the film, hated the series. Got them all.
  • [18:59:10] <ka6sox> always found Alia interesting...Scary....but interesting.
  • [18:59:43] <mru> most women are
  • [19:00:03] <LetoThe2nd> many aunts especially
  • [19:00:09] <KotH> mru: the rest are just scary :)
  • [19:00:23] <mru> indeed
  • [19:02:39] <LetoThe2nd> hmhm
  • [19:02:59] * dj_pi (~dj@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [19:03:05] <KotH> hmm.. swiss companies are really expensive: oscilloquartz is selling a crystall oscillator for a bargain price of 25'000 CHF
  • [19:03:38] <LetoThe2nd> hrhr
  • [19:04:36] <ka6sox> KotH, how do you pronounce CHF (or the spelled out version I really mean)
  • [19:04:39] <ka6sox> ?
  • [19:04:50] <KotH> schwiizer frank??
  • [19:04:54] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-76-105-221-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [19:05:58] <KotH> where CH stands for switzerland and F for "Franken" or "Francs" depending on the language you are using
  • [19:06:12] <ka6sox> :)
  • [19:06:27] * ka6sox looks at the current exchange rate...
  • [19:07:02] <ka6sox> so about $26,000 USD
  • [19:07:12] <ka6sox> I could buy an "atomic" clock for that price :P
  • [19:07:28] <KotH> a new Rb clock costs about 1-5kUSD
  • [19:07:38] <KotH> a Cs beam standard, iirc 15-20kUSD
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  • [19:08:03] <KotH> a H maser somewhere in the region of a 100kUSD
  • [19:08:13] <ka6sox> but I don't even want to know what a fountian clock costs.
  • [19:08:31] <KotH> of you go to ebay: Rb for 80USD, Cs from about 5k
  • [19:08:44] <KotH> you cant buy Cs fountains
  • [19:08:51] <KotH> you have to build them yourself
  • [19:09:15] <KotH> but if you go that way, do yourself a favor and build an optical ion clock
  • [19:09:26] <_av500_> GSOC is announced
  • [19:09:41] <KotH> costs about the same but has a couple orders of magnitude higher stability
  • [19:09:42] <ka6sox> "Let the Games Begin"!
  • [19:09:52] * LetoThe2nd will just have his fishspeakers readjust time to his liking. no clocks needed.
  • [19:10:01] <LetoThe2nd> _av500_: OMG.
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  • [19:10:52] <ka6sox> KotH, if I need something that stable I'll just ask.
  • [19:10:57] <LetoThe2nd> _av500_: does that mean "nearly as bad as trimester projects" or "way more bad than trimester projects"? ;)
  • [19:11:12] * ryukafalz (~quassel@173-167-213-209-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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  • [19:11:48] <ka6sox> LetoThe2nd, for those of us who are parents...that has a different connotation.
  • [19:12:12] <LetoThe2nd> ka6sox: ah yes?
  • [19:12:32] * kiilo (~kiilo@h25n3-g-kt-d1.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #beagle
  • [19:12:40] <ka6sox> 1st trimester: "is this really happening"
  • [19:12:44] * LetoThe2nd fails to see a relation between GSOC and parenthood.
  • [19:12:54] <ka6sox> oh
  • [19:12:55] <ka6sox> nm
  • [19:13:38] * LetoThe2nd fails to see a relation between GSOC and parenthood and NetworkManager.
  • [19:13:44] <m_billybob> afternoon everyone, whats shakin ?
  • [19:13:44] <KotH> ka6sox: i doubt you will ever need anything more stable than an Rb
  • [19:13:53] <KotH> ka6sox: and that stuff can easily and cheaply bought on ebay
  • [19:13:55] <ka6sox> KotH, I have one.
  • [19:14:03] <KotH> see...
  • [19:14:08] <ka6sox> but it consumes LOTS of power.
  • [19:14:14] <KotH> 10W or so?
  • [19:14:24] <ka6sox> ya, something like that
  • [19:14:36] <KotH> that's normal. most of it goes for heating
  • [19:14:49] <KotH> the rest goes into the Rb discharge lamp
  • [19:15:01] <KotH> and a tinsy bit for the frequency multiplier
  • [19:15:32] <LetoThe2nd> simpsons episodes over, seeya tomorrow
  • [19:15:38] <ka6sox> niters
  • [19:18:13] <KotH> sleep well
  • [19:18:24] <panto> cya
  • [19:20:55] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [19:20:56] <thurgood> meh, sometimes an ounce of understanding is a dangerous thing :/
  • [19:21:18] <KotH> half knowledge is always dangerouse
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  • [19:21:24] <thurgood> exactly
  • [19:21:25] <KotH> that's why i am so dangerouse
  • [19:21:56] <dm8tbr> dangermouse?
  • [19:22:08] <KotH> people still remember that? :)
  • [19:22:23] <mru> dangermoose
  • [19:22:27] * dm8tbr always enjoyed watching it
  • [19:22:33] <dm8tbr> chocolate moose?
  • [19:22:36] <KotH> mru: sweedish rip off? :)
  • [19:22:51] <dm8tbr> swedish chef
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  • [19:23:10] <mru> troll!
  • [19:23:27] * mrpackethead (~mrpacketh@147.200.109.203.static.cust.vf.net.nz) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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  • [19:24:00] <ka6sox> I'm not afraid of a dangermouse...a dangermoose OTOH...
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  • [19:24:44] <mru> the moose is loose
  • [19:28:20] <thurgood> trying to add frame skipping to our video playback
  • [19:28:55] * kiilo (~kiilo@h25n3-g-kt-d1.ias.bredband.telia.com) Quit (Quit: ciao)
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  • [19:29:49] <thurgood> and running into lots of semaphore issues I hadn't considered initially :/
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  • [19:34:52] <thurgood> bork, bork, bork
  • [19:35:24] <Russ> bork, bork
  • [19:35:51] <mru> pork
  • [19:35:53] * m_billybob prefered the prof and beaker
  • [19:36:58] * fcooper (~a0273011@192.91.66.186) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [19:37:29] * KotH preferes lamb
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  • [19:37:48] <KotH> horse isnt bead either though
  • [19:37:52] <KotH> bad*
  • [19:37:53] <thurgood> ewww
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  • [19:38:42] <thurgood> I'll stick with bacon
  • [19:38:42] <m_billybob> thurgood, you live in the US chances are slim but possible you've already unwittingly eaten horse
  • [19:38:44] <Defiant> Does someone have gst-dsp running on BBB?
  • [19:38:44] <thurgood> :P
  • [19:39:05] <mrpackethead> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/05/26/038250/arm-in-supercomputers-get-ready-for-the-change
  • [19:39:32] <thurgood> does bb black have a dsp?
  • [19:39:45] <m_billybob> dontthink so
  • [19:39:50] <m_billybob> if it does its news to me
  • [19:40:09] <thurgood> yeah, I thought they moved to PRUs
  • [19:40:27] <KotH> is it "known to men" or "known to man" ?
  • [19:40:40] <thurgood> could be wrong of course
  • [19:41:00] <thurgood> probably man as in mankind
  • [19:41:01] <kfoltman> bb black's SoC doesn't have a dsp
  • [19:41:01] <m_billybob> i was looking at the procesor diagram last night didnt notice one
  • [19:41:09] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [19:41:10] <kfoltman> but it has neon which is awesome
  • [19:41:14] <KotH> thurgood: thanks
  • [19:41:17] <m_billybob> noticed a rtc on die though when everyone been saying the bbb doesnt have a rtc lol
  • [19:41:28] <Russ> you don't have a battery for the rtc though
  • [19:41:32] <Russ> so not much help there
  • [19:41:44] <KotH> who needs a battery in an always-on system? :)
  • [19:41:57] <m_billybob> that could be remidied
  • [19:42:11] <m_billybob> put a battery on your design or use a UPS
  • [19:42:21] <Defiant> hmm..the tutorial I have here is for board and bone..doesn't distinguish for dsp..
  • [19:43:24] <kfoltman> OMAPs SoCs have a DSP, but Sitara SoCs generally don't, AFAIK at least
  • [19:43:30] <m_billybob> dont really know what would be cheaper, attachign a battery to the bbb on the battery pads, or buying a rtc and putting it on your daughtercard / cape
  • [19:43:47] <mru> ntp
  • [19:44:02] <m_billybob> so what happens when power goes down
  • [19:44:14] <m_billybob> and then comes back up but no internet connection for a long time
  • [19:44:15] <thurgood> don't ask, don't tell ~.~
  • [19:44:44] <Defiant> the datasheet doesn't mention a DSP..so I guess not
  • [19:44:50] <mru> if you're not networked, time is irrelevant
  • [19:44:55] * old-papa (~ident@206.251.40.208) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [19:45:05] <mru> Defiant: no dsp on bone
  • [19:45:07] * risc (~toor@freebsd/user/risc) Quit (Quit: What is this horrible fascination with Unix? The operating system of the 1960s, still gaining in popularity in the 1990s. - The UNIX-HATERS Handbook)
  • [19:45:12] <Defiant> k
  • [19:45:15] <m_billybob> mru not necessarily
  • [19:45:29] <m_billybob> mru what if the "board" is controlling somerhing based on time
  • [19:45:38] <m_billybob> and it has to be fairly accurate
  • [19:46:35] <mru> gps
  • [19:46:43] * Guest83329 (~bleh1@87.254.66.255) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [19:46:57] <m_billybob> or just a simple UPS or battery backed solution :)
  • [19:48:39] <KotH> you will drift a couple of minutes per year
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  • [19:49:16] <jacekowski> m_billybob: cheap gps will be the best choice
  • [19:49:19] <mru> KotH: if you're lucky
  • [19:49:21] <jacekowski> m_billybob: it will always be accurate
  • [19:49:52] <mru> ntp+battery can work sufficiently
  • [19:50:04] <m_billybob> jacekowski, yeah i dont really know which would be better. just thinking in terms of what is already suppied on die
  • [19:50:17] <mru> if you're not offline for more than a day or so
  • [19:50:24] <jacekowski> m_billybob: on die RTC isn't very accurate
  • [19:50:33] <m_billybob> no ?
  • [19:50:39] <jacekowski> not in long run
  • [19:50:47] <m_billybob> whats the drift on them ?
  • [19:50:56] <jacekowski> it's board specific
  • [19:51:02] <KotH> mru: in a home/office environment, where temp doesnt vary more than 5??C, you can get to that quite eaily after initial frequency offset calibration
  • [19:51:14] <jacekowski> although you are talking about couple seconds a day
  • [19:51:30] <KotH> mru: i know of people wo get to less than 1min/year with pendulum clocks
  • [19:51:37] * ka6sox gets out the wood and charcoal.
  • [19:51:40] <m_billybob> jacekowski, well then what you say is probably the best bet then. but yeah like you jus tsaid i can think of a few application that require to the second timing
  • [19:52:01] <mru> ka6sox: burning witches again?
  • [19:52:27] <ka6sox> Tri-Tip
  • [19:52:34] <jacekowski> m_billybob: you can get usb gps module for ??16
  • [19:52:45] <mru> pitchfork?
  • [19:52:55] <KotH> jacekowski: you can even get them for 16usd
  • [19:52:57] <m_billybob> probably a module for slightly less
  • [19:52:59] <KotH> epay is your friend
  • [19:53:17] <m_billybob> gps isnt something ive dealt with or looked into much
  • [19:53:34] <m_billybob> but yeah like KotH just said lol lots of "cheap" ebay stuff
  • [19:53:55] <jacekowski> m_billybob: just plug it in and you get stream of location + time data
  • [19:54:06] <jacekowski> m_billybob: ignore location and you get very accurate time source
  • [19:54:15] <KotH> m_billybob: just be carfull not to get addicted to timing precision
  • [19:54:23] <jacekowski> m_billybob: atomic clock type of precision
  • [19:54:24] <m_billybob> yeah actually that makes total sense i was not aware gps did time data as well
  • [19:54:24] <KotH> m_billybob: or you'll end up buying atomic clocks
  • [19:54:30] <jacekowski> m_billybob: it has to
  • [19:54:37] <jacekowski> m_billybob: and it has to be very accurate
  • [19:54:50] <KotH> jacekowski: you cannot ignore location if you want to get a precise time with gps
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  • [19:55:01] <m_billybob> KotH, naw but somethign im workign on requires to the second timing for some stuff
  • [19:55:35] <KotH> jacekowski: and the precision of single frequency gps after sawtooth correction with a timing receiver is +/-10ns, any atomic clock does better than that
  • [19:56:00] <KotH> m_billybob: to the second in over a length of a decade? ;)
  • [19:56:13] <mru> gps is usually plenty accurate
  • [19:56:23] <KotH> depends on what you are doing ;)
  • [19:56:34] <jacekowski> i've seen that integrated atomic clock
  • [19:56:38] <jacekowski> small on chip stuff
  • [19:56:43] <KotH> CSAC?
  • [19:56:47] * ericvrp (~ericvrp@ericvrp.xs4all.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [19:56:49] <m_billybob> KotH, something like to the second every 5, 10 30 whatever minutes. but needs to fire off eaxtly to the second
  • [19:56:53] <KotH> that's cool stuff!
  • [19:57:04] <jacekowski> yeah
  • [19:57:06] <KotH> m_billybob: pfffft!
  • [19:57:15] <KotH> m_billybob: any cheap chinese crystall can do that!
  • [19:57:18] <jacekowski> http://www.symmetricom.com/products/frequency-references/chip-scale-atomic-clock-csac/
  • [19:57:23] <KotH> no challenge there!
  • [19:57:32] <KotH> jacekowski: i know the CSAC pretty well
  • [19:57:50] <jacekowski> how much is one of those?
  • [19:57:55] <KotH> 1500usd
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  • [19:58:02] <KotH> +tax+pp
  • [19:58:10] <jacekowski> that's more than gps
  • [19:58:11] <KotH> single piece
  • [19:59:16] <KotH> jacekowski: you can have both in one package: http://www.jackson-labs.com/index.php/products/csac :-)
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  • [20:02:05] <m_billybob> KotH actually though what mru and jacekowski said ther makes perfect sense though a crystal rtc etc all need power to remain accurate. where as any number of scenarios could happen and a gps would be perfectly fine
  • [20:02:51] <KotH> m_billybob: sure.. but as i said, a second over a couple minutes is no challenge
  • [20:03:19] <KotH> m_billybob: the bbb should keep that much accuracy with the on board crystal already
  • [20:03:59] <m_billybob> KotH yeah im thining worse case scenario though o na remote site. maybe the power goes down for several hours, and when it comes back up the internet may be out still so it has no way of tellig nhow long its been down
  • [20:04:11] <m_billybob> so you're forced to have some means of backuppower on the device
  • [20:04:30] <kfoltman> m_billybob: NTP is not an option of course?
  • [20:04:32] <m_billybob> to ru na rtc or crystal or whatever
  • [20:04:33] <KotH> m_billybob: a standard crystal is specified to 20ppm, add another 20-50ppm for temp variations and you are at <100ppm. you are talking about 1s in 2000s at most, thats 500ppm
  • [20:05:03] <KotH> m_billybob: add a battery to the bone, and be done with it
  • [20:05:46] <m_billybob> kfoltman anything that works iis an option but again without power and /or internet . . .
  • [20:06:29] <KotH> well...
  • [20:06:36] <KotH> use the most simple solution
  • [20:06:42] <kfoltman> m_billybob: well, that depends on whether the remote site is a data centre, or, say, a baloon ;)
  • [20:06:47] <m_billybob> KotH not discounting anything it does soudn reasonable to me too
  • [20:07:15] <kfoltman> balloon, even
  • [20:07:17] <mru> use a pit and a pendulum
  • [20:07:33] <m_billybob> kfoltman dataventers go down for days sometimes too albiet rarely
  • [20:07:35] <m_billybob> hahaha
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  • [20:08:40] <kfoltman> and a cat
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  • [20:08:54] <mru> a lolcat?
  • [20:08:55] <kfoltman> no solution is complete without a cat
  • [20:09:18] <m_billybob> kfoltman sure including lunch ;)
  • [20:09:22] <thurgood> datacenters have more frequent outages, just not catastrophic.. usually
  • [20:09:31] <m_billybob> we own 3 GSDs . ..
  • [20:09:38] <m_billybob> cats resemble rabbits . ..
  • [20:09:42] <kfoltman> they sometimes have backup power generators, too ;)
  • [20:09:52] * m_billybob nods
  • [20:10:40] <m_billybob> ok just for worse case scenario elaboration though ive seen a faulty AC unit take out a whole cell phone site ( mini datacenter too ) for a few days
  • [20:10:44] <m_billybob> again its very rare.
  • [20:11:09] <m_billybob> like 1.5m worth of equipment poof gone
  • [20:13:02] <KotH> i think worst i've ever heard, was a couple of guys, walking into a datacenter, and carrying all computers out
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  • [20:13:11] <m_billybob> a $45 bbb or somethign like it could have saved the day ;) shut off al lthe euipment, until someone came out to repair the ac unit. site was goign down no matter waht . . .
  • [20:13:16] <KotH> in broad daylight... passing the security guy
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  • [20:13:19] <m_billybob> lol
  • [20:13:45] <tdill__> Anybody here running a custom linux kernel on their BBB that they cross-compiled? I cross-compiled the archlinuxarm kernel and installed it but it didn't boot, no idea where I went wrong.
  • [20:13:45] <KotH> iirc it took the company a couple of hours to realize that it wasnt a network problem
  • [20:14:09] <m_billybob> hahaha
  • [20:15:01] <m_billybob> tdill__ not exactly custom, followed Rbert C nelsons how to etc but yeah it was cross compiled.
  • [20:15:17] <m_billybob> tdill__ whats teh symtoms ? other than it doesnt boot ?
  • [20:15:37] <mru> blue smoke?
  • [20:15:39] <m_billybob> all 4 user LEDS lit solid ?
  • [20:15:59] <tdill__> m_billybob: haha, no smoke thankfully, but no lights at all, ever with the sd card plugged in
  • [20:16:46] <m_billybob> id have to assume the power led comes on ?
  • [20:16:57] <m_billybob> and no activity on the user leds at all ?
  • [20:17:00] <tdill__> m_billybob: the arch arm guys compiled the kernel with cpu scaling set to performance instead of ondemand like most other distros so you can't do very much off of usb power
  • [20:17:06] <mru> ever? did you wait an eternity?
  • [20:17:08] <joel_> mru: lol
  • [20:17:11] <tdill__> m_billybob: oh yeah the powerled comes on
  • [20:17:21] <kfoltman> OK guys, now a serious question. I have this Lexicon Omega thingy, an 4x2 audio+MIDI interface (full-speed USB1.1). It works when connected directly, doesn't work through a hub I got in 2 euro store. Some other audio interface (a $10 soundcard from ebay) works when connected to the same hub. I'm guessing I got a short end of the infamous 'split transaction' stick, amirite?
  • [20:17:37] <tdill__> mru: felt like forever lol
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  • [20:17:50] <tdill__> mru: I even asked nicely
  • [20:18:15] <m_billybob> tdill__, and you're using uboot with uEnv.txt ?
  • [20:18:17] <mru> eternity does feel long towards the end
  • [20:18:39] <m_billybob> err wait this is from emmc or sd ?
  • [20:19:04] <mru> kfoltman: try a 3 euro store
  • [20:19:08] <mru> etc
  • [20:19:09] <tdill__> m_billybob: correct uing uboot, it's booting from an sd, it was booting the previous kernel from there
  • [20:20:01] <kfoltman> mru: the same hub+audio interface combo works when connected to the PC, so I guess there's something different in BBB USB implementation that makes it not work
  • [20:20:03] <tdill__> m_billybob: I installed the kernel with the package manager, but was wondering if there was some other step that needed to be done
  • [20:20:18] <m_billybob> tdill__ when first doing the same with debian, i had the exact same thign happen to me. as it turns out, I didnt copy the rootfs over proerly.
  • [20:21:13] <m_billybob> the power LED would come on and nothing on the user leds
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  • [20:21:37] <tdill__> m_billybob: hmmm, would I need to rebuild the rootfs after changing the kernel, that seems weird from a server/desktop perspective...
  • [20:21:38] <kfoltman> the question is, apart from usbmon on the device (and perhaps the hub), what can I do to get some insight into packets exchanged between the board, the hub and the interface?
  • [20:22:55] <m_billybob> tdill__ i didnt have to, but i did. initially, also when making a sd card for my buddy i did somethign else ( missed a step ) and the same happened from that too
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  • [20:23:31] <kfoltman> I'm not 100% sure if I want to deal with usb porn, but perhaps worth trying
  • [20:23:38] <m_billybob> tdill__ whcih steps did you follow ?
  • [20:25:07] <m_billybob> also for what it is worth i missed teh uboot steps completely initially also second try ang the bbb booted fine lol dont ask me how . . .
  • [20:25:25] <tdill__> m_billybob: ha, that's funny you ask, this is all the archarm tema has for cross-compiling: http://archlinuxarm.org/developers/distcc-cross-compiling
  • [20:25:52] <tdill__> m_billybob: the docs for building kernels is basically a link to their github page and a link to the arch x86 wiki
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  • [20:26:20] <tdill__> m_billybob: it's been a long, but interesting 2 days of learning about cross-compiling (to some extent)
  • [20:27:40] <m_billybob> someone else on here has archlinux working i dotn remember whom but you'd probably be better off talking to that person
  • [20:27:49] <m_billybob> i have zero hands on with archlinnux
  • [20:28:02] <m_billybob> those steps seem kind of short though
  • [20:28:07] <tdill__> m_billybob: do you still have that link to the debian tutorial you sent me? I may jump ship to debian, i was just hesitant to learn another packaging system since I already knew pkgbuild and rpm
  • [20:28:17] * creemj (~mjc@60-234-221-162.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [20:28:19] <kfoltman> (OK, it's even more interesting: the cheapo hub works when connected via non-cheapo hub, but doesn't work when connected directly to the PC motherboard, I guess that explains much)
  • [20:28:26] <m_billybob> may also give you some insight where it went wrong too
  • [20:28:30] <m_billybob> and yes i do one second
  • [20:28:51] <m_billybob> tdill__ ---> http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black
  • [20:29:01] <tdill__> m_billybob: thanks
  • [20:29:08] <m_billybob> debian or ubuntu both are CLI
  • [20:29:10] <m_billybob> np
  • [20:29:36] <m_billybob> anyhew bbl got soe work to do !
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  • [20:30:06] <tdill__> m_billybob: yep I'm looking for cli, I just want a base system with a kernel I can hack on
  • [20:30:27] <tdill__> m_billybob: did you follow these steps on a debian system too?
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  • [20:34:10] <kfoltman> oh, http://pastebin.com/PjPKZQdi
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  • [20:34:58] <mru> ick
  • [20:35:02] <kfoltman> even better: "mmcblk0: error -110 sending status command, retrying"
  • [20:35:19] <kfoltman> "Aborting journal on device mmcblk0p2-8."
  • [20:35:31] <kfoltman> time for a reboot I suppose
  • [20:36:27] <Sicelo> booting from waht?
  • [20:36:49] <Sicelo> -110 is timeout
  • [20:37:02] <kfoltman> Sicelo: from eMMC
  • [20:37:18] <tdill__> m_billybob: well I think I see my first error, I didn't cross-compile uboot
  • [20:37:34] <Sicelo> sometimes 'rootwait' helps
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  • [20:41:27] <kfoltman> Sicelo: if you mean my mmcblk0 error, it was after the BBB was running for more than a day, and it works now after power cycle.
  • [20:42:01] <Sicelo> ok. nice.
  • [20:42:22] <YoMomma> Hi everyone, I've been doing my part to parse out
  • [20:43:18] <YoMomma> shoot (accidental enter press)??? to parse out any pros of the original beagle over the beagle black. Any major things I should be aware of?
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  • [20:52:00] <fiola> YoMomma: Section 4.1 p.25 of the BBB manual contains a list of the differences versus original BB
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  • [20:53:53] <YoMomma> fiola: excellent, thanks so much
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  • [21:02:37] <fiola> The README in root's login directory says that syslog-ng or rsyslog will run happily alongside the systemd journal if installed. There's no sign of either of those packages in an "opkg list" though, despite an opkg update. Is the README wrong, or opkg feeds not set up fully on BBB?
  • [21:03:18] * DarthExpedito12 (~IceChat9@107.41.248.12) has joined #beagle
  • [21:03:22] <fiola> Stock Angstrom on BBB, as it comes.
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  • [21:04:55] <Silentjet> Hi, does anyone know is somewhere u-boot for BBB that supports fastboot and GPT partitioning as well ?
  • [21:06:30] <kfoltman> fiola: well, it only says that it can run happily, not that it's available anywhere in precompiled form ;)
  • [21:06:43] <ka6sox> Silentjet, I'd ask that question on the Mailinglist/forums/googlegroups.
  • [21:09:07] <Silentjet> well, actually it is :) inside rowboat repo
  • [21:09:21] <Silentjet> But it require more work on it
  • [21:09:35] <Silentjet> to adopt to GPT partitioning
  • [21:10:06] <ka6sox> Silentjet, check how current the rowboat is...
  • [21:10:16] <ka6sox> might be a leaky vessel.
  • [21:10:57] <Silentjet> I already done that, booting is stuck on loading bootloader partition
  • [21:11:40] <Silentjet> I guess cause wrong extra option is specifiev for target board am335x_evm
  • [21:11:43] <fiola> kfoltman: Hehe. Well the more I explore Angstrom, the more that appears to be the case with many things. It's partial and broken in so many respects, especially in /etc/init.d. No idea though if it's just a spotty version of Angstrom on BBB, or whether that's a property of Angstrom.
  • [21:14:00] * janne curses systemd
  • [21:14:45] <fiola> It's a bit worrying that it's giving the legions (hopefully :P) of new Linux recruits that buy a BBB a bad impression of how good and tidy Linux is. It's really complete and consistent on all the major distros, but Angstrom isn't.
  • [21:15:14] <kfoltman> fiola: well, it's true - but comparing to my only alternative at this point (buildroot), I like the ability to edit/recompile the source directly on BBB, for quick checks/bugfixing/optimizations (of course I could just as well set up a cross-compiling environment on the host, but I'm lazy)
  • [21:15:18] <fiola> janne: I don't mind change, I mind breakage.
  • [21:17:07] <janne> it can't even mount a nfs4 share on the default beaglebone black. it tries to mount it before the network is ready as static mount and uses options mount.nfs4 doesn't understand as delayed automount
  • [21:17:09] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [21:17:32] <fiola> kfoltman: yeah, but for example, the Pi hordes are getting a better Linux experience right now because their Raspbian distro is a Debian, which is full and complete, not patchy and half broken. That's sad, BBB deserves better.
  • [21:17:48] <fiola> janne: yeah, startup is a mess.
  • [21:17:53] <thurgood> bbb is not a desktop
  • [21:17:56] <janne> fiola: I was cursing about the breakage I saw myself
  • [21:18:06] <thurgood> it's a dev board
  • [21:18:41] <kfoltman> fiola: part of me agrees with you - on the other hand, the opkg borkiness forced me to learn a few things that I wanted to learn, but would be too lazy to do otherwise ;)
  • [21:18:50] <janne> time to install gentoo on it
  • [21:18:54] <fiola> thurgood: It's a new era with BBB. Beagleboard.org has decided to give it a desktop to make the out-of-the-box experience appeal to the masses.
  • [21:19:55] <kfoltman> thurgood: well, RPi is a dev board, too, in theory :)
  • [21:20:26] <kfoltman> or at least is sold as one ;)
  • [21:20:38] <fiola> And in any case, startup breakage can't be excused just because "it's a dev board". Breakage is breakage. A dev board running Debian or Ubuntu or Gentoo won't have broken startup.
  • [21:21:12] <kfoltman> "It's an embedded system. Abandon all yer hope."
  • [21:21:28] * krajo1 (~krajo1@ip4-83-240-125-22.cust.nbox.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  • [21:21:29] <thurgood> the rpi with all it's closed docs makes a poor dev board... but by labeling it a dev board you have easier fcc resrictions
  • [21:21:37] <fiola> Hahaha. The opposite actually. Embeded systems need to work even more reliably :P
  • [21:21:55] <kfoltman> fiola: The finished systems - yes. But the tools are usually horrendous.
  • [21:22:21] <kfoltman> Poorly tested closed-source compilers etc.
  • [21:22:37] <ka6sox> janne, whats the difference really between OE(made for embedded) and Gentoo (made for desktops)?
  • [21:22:52] <ka6sox> ie: why is is any better in this case.
  • [21:23:17] <ka6sox> they *both* are source based frameworks with recipies.
  • [21:23:44] <fiola> kfoltman: Oh god, not talking about closed proprietary junk. I'm comparing Angstrom to distros like Debian and Ubuntu, which can easily be slimmed down and still work perfectly.
  • [21:24:08] <ka6sox> ubuntu and slimmed down...in the same sentence!
  • [21:24:12] <fiola> Haha
  • [21:24:12] <thurgood> heh
  • [21:25:01] <ka6sox> thats like saying a whale lost 150lbs and thats "trim and fit"
  • [21:26:02] <fiola> ka6sox: Gentoo isn't "made for desktops". It's a sort of meta-distro, or toolkit for constructing your own system. It'll make the *exact* system you want whether it be a desktop, server, router, or anything else.
  • [21:27:11] <ka6sox> fiola, yes, but the recipies are setup *mostly* for x86 desktop and server environments and not checked for endian and other "safe" issues in cross compiling.
  • [21:27:24] <fiola> Sabayon is a Gentoo-based distro created specifically for desktops, with all the glitz.
  • [21:28:03] <ka6sox> OE otoh, has patches specifically meant to deal with Endian and other issues found in embedded environments.
  • [21:28:25] <Silentjet> fiola: gentoo was created by big brother to improve electricity consuming xD
  • [21:28:34] <Silentjet> no more no less
  • [21:28:48] <ka6sox> Silentjet, turn electrons into Heat.
  • [21:28:59] <Silentjet> to achive EXACT system u need LFS
  • [21:29:07] <Silentjet> no more no less
  • [21:29:09] <kfoltman> wonder what's the use of electricity from people constantly recompiling everything with various compiler options to get even better performance on high-end x86 machines ;)
  • [21:29:55] <ka6sox> I'm not denying it has advantages for squeezing every last ounce of performance out of x86 desktops.
  • [21:30:21] <ka6sox> OE *came* from Gentoo as a framework specifically for Embedded.
  • [21:30:37] <ka6sox> and *optimized* for Embedded.
  • [21:30:55] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [21:31:24] <Silentjet> forget about optimisation in common tasks :) GCC with O2 knows better how to do that
  • [21:31:31] <fiola> Anyway, the subject was breakage in BBB's Angstrom. While Angstrom (and OE) may have admirable intentions, the breakage is not working to BBB's benefit.
  • [21:31:33] * tudalex is now known as tudalex|away
  • [21:31:45] <ka6sox> fiola, what breakage?
  • [21:32:13] <fiola> The specific examples were systemd's startup of various things.
  • [21:32:50] <ka6sox> startup is a system issue on a particular system...Gentoo won't "fix" that.
  • [21:33:38] <ka6sox> tweaking an existing system to do what you want is cheaper than throwing the baby out with the bath water.
  • [21:33:49] <ka6sox> especially if you already *know* gentoo.
  • [21:33:51] <jacekowski> fiola: systemd sucks, and everyone knows that
  • [21:34:09] <dwery> jacekowski: can't agree more.
  • [21:34:11] <fiola> Not sure what you mean by that. I've never come across broken startup scripts on Gentoo, Ubuntu or Debian, not even on the otherwise crappy Pi. On BBB, they're badly broken.
  • [21:34:23] <jacekowski> systemd together with pulseaudio and guy that came up with those two, should just burn in hell (or your local equivalent)
  • [21:34:28] <fiola> So why are we using systemd, if we know it's badly broken?
  • [21:34:31] <ka6sox> so fix them.
  • [21:34:48] <fiola> ka6sox: You fix them, you're the pro advocate.
  • [21:35:10] <jacekowski> gentoo has WORKING OpenRC and it works
  • [21:35:19] <fiola> jacekowski++
  • [21:35:26] <jacekowski> and it does the job and it's compatible with systemV
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  • [21:40:31] <jacekowski> and well, gento does a lot of things better than most of the distros (other than the fact that installation is slow for obvious reasons)
  • [21:41:35] * panto (~panto@195.97.110.117) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  • [21:42:43] <fiola> I'm not trying to promote one distro over another, I've used so many I've lost count over the years. But breakage isn't tolerable in any distro, and if major changes are made (like removing /etc/inittab, FFS!) then there have to be VERY strong reasons and advantages for it. And the result must not be broken.
  • [21:43:56] <jacekowski> thing is, linux and backwards compatibility don't go very well together
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  • [21:44:55] <jacekowski> if you have some commercial binary only software that relies on libc then in most cases libc will ship with that software because next update to glibc will be incompatible with old one
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  • [21:45:26] <fiola> I'm not even saying that it has to be backwards compatible. But when moving purely forwards without a rearview mirror, the result must not be broken.
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  • [21:46:17] <m_billybob> ah tdill left already
  • [21:46:33] <jacekowski> and well so far i've seen only one workaround for the problem that works quite well (windows side-by-side - but this still is a workaround)
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  • [21:47:25] <m_billybob> jacekowski, different story for debian usually.
  • [21:47:26] <jacekowski> that allows for security update to older version of libraries that are kept for compatibility reasons, and at the same time, allows for new version to coexist
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  • [21:48:21] <fiola> In the absence of inittab, where does one configure the VTs on which logins are to be spawned?
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  • [21:53:21] <m_billybob> fiola, seems you've cleared the room with your question ;)
  • [21:53:41] <fiola> Think I found the info, something to do with messing around with getty* files in /lib/systemd/system/
  • [21:53:43] <fiola> Haha
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  • [22:18:00] <mastiff> where's a good small angstrom image for BBB? The "current" version linked on the getting started page is over 3GB.
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  • [22:23:55] <kfoltman> fiola: ...so now I have a systemd .service file for my instrument thingy ;)
  • [22:24:38] <kfoltman> it's very hacky but it kinda works (by which I mean it starts it on bootup, then it crashes, then it restarts it, and then it works :O)
  • [22:27:50] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
  • [22:29:21] <fiola> Haha. I guess that's progress :P
  • [22:31:08] <kfoltman> It's more than good enough for now.
  • [22:37:10] * kfoltman (~kfoltman@188.141.18.243) Quit (Quit: bed)
  • [22:39:12] * XorA is now known as XorA-gone
  • [22:43:57] <joel_> mastiff: not sure what you're seeing, the ones here are <500MB: http://downloads.angstrom-distribution.org/demo/beaglebone/
  • [22:44:52] <mastiff> BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.05.20.img.xz ?
  • [22:45:11] <joel_> that ones just 300M
  • [22:45:14] <mastiff> 364MB compressed
  • [22:45:24] <mastiff> after 7zip it ended up over 3GB
  • [22:45:34] <fiola> joel_: Hah, just in time, I was about to look for that URL, cheers :P
  • [22:45:50] <joel_> :)
  • [22:45:54] <mastiff> not sure if that's correct??
  • [22:46:06] <fiola> Finger trouble, zapped a file, lol
  • [22:46:07] * tzafrir (~tzafrir@local.xorcom.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [22:46:08] <joel_> mastiff: dunno, i have never used the flasher images
  • [22:46:17] <joel_> i don't even boot from eMMC , sorry
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  • [22:46:42] <mastiff> i ran out of disk space on my BBB so that's why I need to do this
  • [22:47:29] <mastiff> but the pre-installed angstrom is less than 2GB
  • [22:47:56] <fiola> I read in the BBB manual that the eMMC device that Gerald used is pin compatible with devices up to 8GB in size. Looking forward to BBs with large eMMC :-))))
  • [22:48:23] <brendan_> is anyone here running ubuntu on their BBB that has it install on the emmc?
  • [22:48:46] <mastiff> i have a 16GB sd card I'm working with now, is that incompatible?
  • [22:49:18] <m_billybob> mastiff not necessaily
  • [22:49:48] <m_billybob> some cards may not work, but most well known brand seem to work fine
  • [22:50:07] <m_billybob> ( we have two bbb's both using 16GB cards )
  • [22:50:52] <fiola> That's good to kinow, m_billybob
  • [22:51:02] <fiola> Brand?
  • [22:51:05] <mastiff> how large is the image you flashed on them?
  • [22:51:08] <m_billybob> samsung
  • [22:51:13] <fiola> cheers
  • [22:51:35] <m_billybob> mastic started with a netinstall image so it was tiny
  • [22:51:40] <m_billybob> mastiff*
  • [22:51:47] <m_billybob> 374MB
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  • [22:52:26] <joel_> mdp is reaalllyy busy these days :-)
  • [22:52:33] <m_billybob> - Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
  • [22:52:33] <m_billybob> - /dev/root 15G 444M 14G 4% /
  • [22:52:35] <mastiff> 374MB image or .xz?
  • [22:52:54] <joel_> so is jkridner_
  • [22:53:11] <fiola> m_billybob: Quick, get more, you're running out! :P
  • [22:53:20] <m_billybob> mastiff whole install. kernel rootfs etc
  • [22:53:27] <m_billybob> i know right ?!
  • [22:53:48] <dwery> ka6sox: it seems that I have to disable the osc that drives the HDMI audio over mcasp0
  • [22:53:50] <m_billybob> mastiff this is debian CLI though
  • [22:54:03] <m_billybob> i would think angstrom could be had at aroudn the same footprint
  • [22:54:13] <m_billybob> ( cli )
  • [22:54:14] <mastiff> hmmm, ok, I don't understand why the current BBB angstrom i just downloaded is over 3GB.
  • [22:54:46] <fiola> Oh that's the Microsoft rootkit
  • [22:54:48] <m_billybob> as Gerlad put it. its an install image, so going ot be bigger but will fit on hte emmc
  • [22:55:23] <m_billybob> Gerald*
  • [22:55:34] <m_billybob> sorry multitasking here typing too fast . . .
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  • [22:56:14] <joel_> fiola: lol
  • [22:56:45] <m_billybob> fiola, ill assume you mean Sony rootkit ;)
  • [22:57:41] <m_billybob> the Microsoft "rootkit" would be know as Windows . ..
  • [22:57:49] <mastiff> It's soo huge it's gotta be the HB Gary version
  • [22:57:50] <m_billybob> known*
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  • [22:58:57] <m_billybob> mastiff never done this myself but for what it is worth, on the groups there are instruction for dding what you need out of that image
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  • [22:59:21] <fiola> Sony are the proud originators of the rootkit marketing concept, but Microsoft are somehow justifying substantial royalty fees per Android device, so I suspect they're trying to inject stuff into Linux too :P
  • [22:59:48] <m_billybob> was ther esome ms rootkit scandal i havent heard of yet ?
  • [23:00:03] * m_billybob hasnt been followign microsoft security stuff for several years now
  • [23:00:06] <fiola> Nah, but don't lose hope :P
  • [23:00:17] <mastiff> yeah I'll try that, the SD i just flashed doesn't boot
  • [23:00:20] <m_billybob> they've fooled you ! its called Windows !
  • [23:00:34] <m_billybob> fiola ^^
  • [23:00:35] <fiola> MS is all derivative these days, so they'll prolly license the rootkits from Sony :P
  • [23:00:55] <m_billybob> Sriously i run Windows 7 x64 all day every day I couldnt be happier
  • [23:01:01] <m_billybob> I wouldnt ru na server on it though
  • [23:01:29] <m_billybob> pure desktop im good i leave the heavy lifting for debian
  • [23:02:10] <m_billybob> well let me rephrase, i wouldnt knowingly / willingly ru na server on it ;)
  • [23:02:20] <mastiff> what does it mean if all the leds are on
  • [23:02:35] <fiola> MS isn't a worry anymore anyway. Google is the big worry that's heading our way.
  • [23:02:46] <m_billybob> as in you put in the sd card and they're lit solid ?
  • [23:03:06] <m_billybob> fiola, hence why ill never touch android again
  • [23:03:07] <mastiff> as in the sd card is not in and i've rebooted several times and they stay solid
  • [23:03:17] <m_billybob> sounds like a bad flash
  • [23:03:26] <m_billybob> which is fixable
  • [23:03:51] <mastiff> it should be booting off the internal, but it doesn't seem to be
  • [23:04:15] <m_billybob> sounds like you got / had a wonky flash. did you try flashing a new image ?
  • [23:04:56] <m_billybob> if you power it up, and it go straight to all 4 usr leds lit solid and it doesnt change, it wont boot
  • [23:04:56] <mastiff> i tried flashing the current BBB angstrom image on the 16GB SD
  • [23:05:15] <mastiff> it won't boot off the 16GB
  • [23:05:31] <m_billybob> reason ?
  • [23:05:32] <mastiff> and now it won't boot off the internal 2GB
  • [23:05:55] <m_billybob> how have you been shutting down the bbb ?
  • [23:06:23] <m_billybob> yanking power or are you using shutdown now -h from ssh ?
  • [23:06:24] <mastiff> shutting down?
  • [23:06:33] <mastiff> unplugging or reset button
  • [23:06:40] * m_billybob winces
  • [23:07:10] <m_billybob> future reference use shutdwn -h now or shutdown now -h
  • [23:07:12] <m_billybob> same difference
  • [23:07:26] <m_billybob> shutdown now -h*
  • [23:07:54] <thurgood> the internal is 2Gb... not GB
  • [23:08:00] <mastiff> Hmm, if that's important and capable of damaging a device, it should really be in the Getting Started
  • [23:08:23] <thurgood> doubt the device is damaged
  • [23:08:27] <m_billybob> mastiff thats common linux knowledge
  • [23:08:37] <m_billybob> yeah not damaged but posibly corrupted now
  • [23:08:39] <mastiff> yeah that's right storage is normally in Gb
  • [23:09:02] <thurgood> depends on the medium
  • [23:09:16] <fiola> mastiff: if it's not in the Getting Started then it's an important omission.
  • [23:09:23] * Echidna (~a@77-20-57-36-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [23:09:44] <mastiff> people like me who are switching from arduinos and such aren't necessarily aware of that
  • [23:09:50] <m_billybob> got to look at it like a desktop PC how do you shut that down ?
  • [23:09:51] <thurgood> had drives are generally in 10^9 B
  • [23:10:11] <thurgood> little b being bit
  • [23:10:25] <m_billybob> anyhow moot now. now you know :)
  • [23:10:27] <thurgood> *hard
  • [23:10:37] <fiola> Just because it's common knowledge in the Unix world doesn't excuse it not being documented in a device that (because of price) every man and their dog and their dog's flees will buy, because of price.
  • [23:11:13] <thurgood> so if you try putting more than 256MB on there.. probably not going to work
  • [23:11:18] <m_billybob> two sides to tha tcoin though
  • [23:12:17] <m_billybob> mastiff do you have a regular linux machine handy ?
  • [23:12:24] <mastiff> yeah a couple
  • [23:12:36] <m_billybob> what type of install are you looking for ?
  • [23:12:39] <m_billybob> on the bbb
  • [23:13:15] <mastiff> i had just finished installing rtl-sdr on my BBB, and tested that. worked fine
  • [23:13:26] <mastiff> then started to install gnuradio and ran out of disk space
  • [23:14:22] <mastiff> i want something small and fast not a full ubuntu or debian and such
  • [23:14:47] <m_billybob> wel both the installs ive seen for debian and ubuntu are cli and small
  • [23:15:04] <mastiff> oh, than I'd give that a try
  • [23:15:06] <m_billybob> unless you think smaller than 400MB is large
  • [23:15:29] <mastiff> i think the 3GB BS i just downloaded from the BBB site is large
  • [23:15:30] <fiola> Angstrom on BBB comes with X11 and desktop, so it's not slim by any stretch of the imagination.
  • [23:15:32] <mastiff> Gb
  • [23:15:47] <mastiff> no GB
  • [23:16:05] <m_billybob> fiola, has anyone done an angstrom console-image yet and online ?
  • [23:16:16] <mastiff> 3.5GB actually
  • [23:16:22] <m_billybob> i havent heard of one but no one say i have to know everything
  • [23:16:27] <fiola> m_billybob: excellent question, don't know
  • [23:16:38] <m_billybob> id be willing to try it myself
  • [23:16:41] <fiola> ditto
  • [23:16:54] <m_billybob> well what about older versions say 3.8.8
  • [23:17:02] <m_billybob> i know that one works
  • [23:17:05] <m_billybob> well it did for me
  • [23:17:08] <joel_> fiola: yes, #exactsteps are required
  • [23:18:03] <m_billybob> not necessarily exact step but atleast some semblance of sane toolchain setup would be nice
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  • [23:19:17] <joel_> I was talking about the poweroff
  • [23:19:19] <fiola> I actually agree fully with the approach taken for BBB, basic desktop provided over HDMI so that the masses have what they are prolly expecting. It's required because of the low cost of BBB. However, almost all people using BBB for embedded will prolly want to zap the entire X11 system from eMMC ... and that's not supported currently.
  • [23:19:20] <joel_> define works?
  • [23:20:17] <ka6sox> joel_, +1
  • [23:21:31] <mastiff> I have two BBBs and it looks like the bad SD flash at least temporarily bricked both of them. Neither will boot now after trying to boot that SD.
  • [23:21:39] <m_billybob> problem is and I will always find a way to make the bbb work if there is way. Most users are likely not going to know the hardware well, or even linux, and when you give them instructions that dont work, because its changed like 500 times in the first month . . . thats a bit of a problem
  • [23:21:43] <m_billybob> i will agree with that
  • [23:22:08] <ka6sox> mastiff, I came in late..what did you try to do with the SD card?
  • [23:22:34] <mastiff> ka6sox, remember last night I was compiling rtl-sdr?
  • [23:22:44] <mastiff> I got that to work today
  • [23:22:59] <ka6sox> kewl
  • [23:23:24] <mastiff> several compiling errors complaining of missing package but the package was actually installed
  • [23:23:31] <mastiff> needed the -dev
  • [23:23:39] <m_billybob> http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black
  • [23:23:40] <ka6sox> right, makes sense
  • [23:23:55] <m_billybob> thsoe are the instructions i followed for debian mastiff
  • [23:23:58] <fiola> m_billybob: well the biggest "instruction that doesn't work" currently is that the manual says it's important to upgrade the system, yet as many people arriving here have reported, the upgrade leaves the eMMC unbootable. That's clearly ... suboptimal.
  • [23:24:04] <mastiff> yup, so then I started compiling gnuradio and ran out of disk space
  • [23:24:17] <ka6sox> whoops
  • [23:24:26] <ka6sox> fiola, I'm trying to get that corrected...
  • [23:24:41] <fiola> Woohoo! ka6++
  • [23:24:43] <m_billybob> fiola, yeah, id hate to be one of the guys workign on these problems rigth now
  • [23:24:47] <mastiff> then tried to flash the "upgrade" which completed successfully according to the flash program
  • [23:24:52] <ka6sox> the upgrade wasn't correctly specified to use the same proceedure as for the original
  • [23:25:17] <mastiff> now on both my BBBs after trying to boot off the newly flashed SD, they won't boot with or without the SD
  • [23:25:31] <ka6sox> mastiff, do you have a console connected to either one?
  • [23:25:38] <ka6sox> (or can you connect one?
  • [23:25:40] <ka6sox> )
  • [23:25:49] <mastiff> console?
  • [23:25:55] <m_billybob> serial cable
  • [23:25:57] <ka6sox> serial port to the pins
  • [23:26:06] <ka6sox> via a FTDI or something
  • [23:26:47] <m_billybob> we still dont have one of those yet either . ..
  • [23:26:53] <m_billybob> we need one though
  • [23:26:54] <mastiff> no, but I might have parts to make one
  • [23:27:05] <ka6sox> mastiff, Q2: does the flasher boot again, and start the process over?
  • [23:27:23] <m_billybob> got a 3v3 ttl serial module ?
  • [23:28:15] <fiola> Or use another BB and a couple of wires.
  • [23:28:16] <mastiff> without the SD card, one BBB is now booting and all the leds stay solid, and the other has only usr3 lighting
  • [23:28:32] <fiola> Or a Bus Pirate. There's tons of ways of getting serial console.
  • [23:28:40] <ka6sox> arrrr
  • [23:28:41] <m_billybob> msp430 . . .
  • [23:28:54] <m_billybob> well msp430 with USCI
  • [23:28:56] <mastiff> i have some arduinos, msp430, logic analyzer
  • [23:28:58] <ka6sox> okay mastiff, try to reflash the "other"
  • [23:29:06] <ka6sox> the one that doesn't boot
  • [23:29:11] <mastiff> neither boots now
  • [23:29:14] * ufrn (bb3d9663@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.61.150.99) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [23:29:39] <ka6sox> okay...this sounds like a bad flash
  • [23:29:46] <ka6sox> which version are you using of the flasher?
  • [23:29:59] <mastiff> the one that was linked from the Getting Started
  • [23:30:09] <ka6sox> can you give me a number?
  • [23:30:14] <mastiff> just a sec
  • [23:30:54] <mastiff> win32diskimager-v0.7-binary.zip
  • [23:32:50] <m_billybob> mastiff, how many dog do you have ?
  • [23:32:54] <m_billybob> dogs*
  • [23:32:59] <mastiff> Just two
  • [23:33:04] <m_billybob> Just curious we have one english mastiff here
  • [23:33:21] <mastiff> Oh real dogs, yeah two of those also
  • [23:33:30] <mastiff> Cane Corsos, Italian Mastiffs
  • [23:33:39] <m_billybob> yeah figured you'd have atleast one lol
  • [23:33:42] <m_billybob> ah
  • [23:33:59] <mastiff> English Mastiffs are a lot bigger
  • [23:34:06] <ka6sox> uh
  • [23:34:16] <m_billybob> think the female we have here is semi small at only aroudn 120lbs
  • [23:34:17] <ka6sox> mastiff, thats not an image
  • [23:34:25] <ka6sox> thats the app that creates the image
  • [23:34:25] * w00die (~Anton@broadband-109-173-124-87.nationalcablenetworks.ru) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [23:34:27] <mastiff> no that's the flash program
  • [23:34:35] <m_billybob> mastiff he wants to know the file name of the image inside thezip
  • [23:34:39] <mastiff> sorry, was confused on what you wanted
  • [23:35:04] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-76-105-221-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [23:35:23] <tdill> m_billybob: Did you select the defaults in the kernel config menu when cross-compiling the Debian kernel?
  • [23:35:34] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-76-105-221-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:35:36] <m_billybob> esc esc yes
  • [23:35:48] <m_billybob> i dont know enough about the kernel settings yet to muck with it
  • [23:36:44] <tdill> m_billybob: yeah I fiddled with the ones that I changed in the arch kernel and didn't get it to boot, but I got lights, trying now with defaults before I get fancy
  • [23:36:58] <m_billybob> tdill, incase my crypto talk is too cryptic lol yes i used default settings
  • [23:37:13] <m_billybob> sorry i know i mabotu as easy to converse with sometimes as a dill pickle
  • [23:37:16] <tdill> m_billybob: nah I got it :)
  • [23:37:58] <m_billybob> ah right on
  • [23:38:08] <m_billybob> so gettign somewhere closer now hopefully
  • [23:38:51] <mastiff> ka6sox: checking that, had to reboot.....
  • [23:38:52] <tdill> yeah if I get the debian kernel to boot I will be at the same point with arch, but the cross-compilation process is much simpler with debian so far
  • [23:39:09] <ka6sox> mastiff, https://s3.amazonaws.com/angstrom/demo/beaglebone/BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.05.20.img.xz?
  • [23:39:40] <mastiff> 99% sure that's the one I used, and decompressing with 7-zip yielded a 3.5GB file
  • [23:39:46] <m_billybob> tdill looked like those instructio nrely heavily on massive bash scripts. only saying that because ther instructions there are way smaller than those i took for debian
  • [23:40:23] <ka6sox> mastiff, ya, thats the current image
  • [23:40:25] * Cris_ (be068c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.6.140.27) has joined #beagle
  • [23:40:32] <Cris_> Hello there
  • [23:40:41] <mastiff> yeah I remember 5/20
  • [23:40:59] <ka6sox> mastiff, can you please see if the process starts over again with that Image on your SD card?
  • [23:40:59] <m_billybob> tdill, but who knows if you're familiar with , and happy using debian you may not look back ;) I've been beating the crap out of mine, and its still goign strong
  • [23:41:12] <Cris_> Anyone has ever ran asterisk on beagleboard
  • [23:41:13] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-76-105-221-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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  • [23:41:27] <mastiff> what do you mean the process?
  • [23:41:38] <ka6sox> Cris_, I've seen reports that it does...but I have not
  • [23:41:38] * Kaliatech (~kaliatech@c-71-58-91-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:41:43] <tdill> m_billybob: the niceest part is that I don't need the same host distro with the linaro cross-compiler tools, so I can build on bare metal in fedora instead of a vm
  • [23:41:54] <ka6sox> mastiff, starts reflashing
  • [23:41:55] * eyck (~eyck@nat08.nowanet.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [23:41:59] <fiola> <m_billybob> sorry i know i mabotu as easy to converse with sometimes as a dill pickle
  • [23:41:59] <mastiff> I'm booting back into windows to used that flashing program
  • [23:42:00] <fiola> Still trying to parse that :P
  • [23:42:02] <ka6sox> goes thru it cycle
  • [23:42:13] <mastiff> just a sec, got stuck in chkdsk hehe
  • [23:42:17] <tdill> m_billybob: much faster! and youre right I may stick with debian
  • [23:42:24] <Cris_> Anyone has ever ran asterisk on beagleboard
  • [23:42:28] <ka6sox> mastiff, whoops
  • [23:42:29] <tdill> m_billybob: until someone has a decent fedora port
  • [23:42:36] <m_billybob> tdill, sweet, im partial to debian, so that one of my cross dev systems. the other is lol Windows
  • [23:42:51] * eyck (~eyck@nat08.nowanet.pl) has joined #beagle
  • [23:42:56] <m_billybob> ive been writting all userland apps so far whcih isnt many from windows
  • [23:43:00] <ka6sox> Cris_, repeating the question won't get it answered any better.
  • [23:43:11] <Cris_> Sorry
  • [23:43:21] * emilepetrone (~emilepetr@c-76-105-221-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:43:35] <tdill> m_billybob: nice, are you using cygwin or do they have windows port of the cross-compiler?
  • [23:43:36] <m_billybob> fiola, just means that sometimes im in my own world and i may not make sense to some.
  • [23:43:44] <ka6sox> Cris_, I'm sure google will find a howto for this.
  • [23:43:44] <fiola> Hehe
  • [23:43:48] <m_billybob> tdill, using native win32 linaro
  • [23:44:11] <Cris_> ok, will check
  • [23:44:37] * vvu|Mobile (~vvu@firewallix.jacobs-university.de) has joined #beagle
  • [23:44:59] <tdill> m_billybob: cool, I only boot into windows every once in a while at work when I have to test hardware besides that I'm usually in linux and a lot people find that weird, everyone has different prefs
  • [23:45:15] <ka6sox> mastiff, can you md5sum the image you got before deflation?
  • [23:45:21] <ka6sox> er inflation?
  • [23:45:23] <m_billybob> you know for me windows is where its at for a desktop i cant help it :/
  • [23:45:41] <ka6sox> mastiff, http://downloads.angstrom-distribution.org/demo/beaglebone/
  • [23:45:45] <ka6sox> thet md5sums are there.
  • [23:45:51] <mastiff> sure, how do I check that in windows?
  • [23:46:01] <ka6sox> you probably don't
  • [23:46:12] <ka6sox> I don't use windows for this so I can't tell you how...sorry ;(
  • [23:46:19] <m_billybob> 7zip displays md5sums iirc
  • [23:46:22] * stamina (~stamina@140-074-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [23:46:40] <ka6sox> m_billybob, thanks..
  • [23:46:50] <fiola> I wonder if anyone's produced a "Debian embedded" image, meaning just a basic CLI image with a set of tools typically useful for embedded work preloaded.
  • [23:46:55] <mastiff> what about on ubuntu?
  • [23:47:04] <ka6sox> fiola, mrpackethead uses it
  • [23:47:13] <ka6sox> whether its a custom to his app or not I don't know
  • [23:47:31] <fiola> Interesting, I'll query him when he appears next
  • [23:47:32] <m_billybob> fiola, debootstrap
  • [23:47:34] * vvu (~quassel@212.201.44.245) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [23:47:59] * fiola googles
  • [23:48:18] <ka6sox> debootstrap is your friend
  • [23:48:52] <fiola> http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap -- sounds very cool
  • [23:48:54] <ka6sox> mastiff, md5sum filename
  • [23:49:20] <m_billybob> it is
  • [23:49:34] <m_billybob> well ive only used it once several years ago, very cool
  • [23:49:55] <m_billybob> fiola, but im booting debian on my bbb what exactly do you mean ? you mean as in a dev platform ?
  • [23:50:33] <m_billybob> fiola becaue it comes with lots of stuff on it, and is still under 400mb size so lol could add anythign you wanted
  • [23:51:15] <fiola> CLI dev platform, sure. Any Unix is a dev platform, unless one has specifically excluded gcc. What's left prolly fits in 128k :P
  • [23:52:24] <m_billybob> tools for embedded work <--- yeah something i dont exactly know all abotu either
  • [23:52:38] <m_billybob> embedded linux is new to me
  • [23:52:46] <fiola> Non-dev platforms are very important too for embedded, ie. just delivery targets. Just means stripping a whole lotta stuff out.
  • [23:52:51] * Cris_ (be068c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.6.140.27) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [23:53:01] <m_billybob> i still need to figure out which libs/headers i need to bring over onto my windows box
  • [23:53:20] <mastiff> ka6sox: e9561c4e6b1ce7ecec74acc912cd27c1
  • [23:53:28] <tdill> m_billybob: Does your sd card look like this, seems strange that the remaining space is at the beginning: http://snag.gy/PPgsE.jpg
  • [23:53:43] <m_billybob> fiola, it comes with apache loaded and running a simple static web page ? good enough ?
  • [23:53:43] <ka6sox> mastiff, compare it to the md5sums on that webpage I liked.
  • [23:53:45] <m_billybob> heheh
  • [23:53:45] <ka6sox> linked
  • [23:54:04] * eyck (~eyck@nat08.nowanet.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [23:54:34] <ka6sox> apache on an embedded system? Hurt me Baby! Make me write Bad Checks!
  • [23:55:20] <m_billybob> tdill i think this is my sd
  • [23:55:30] <fiola> I think we've just arrived in a new era, where embedded delivery targets cost peanuts and yet can hold and run an entire Unix-type O/S. Next generation beyond uClinux, which is probably dying as a result.
  • [23:55:44] <m_billybob> - /dev/mmcblk0p1 * 2048 133119 65536 e W95 FAT16 (LBA)
  • [23:55:44] <m_billybob> - /dev/mmcblk0p2 133120 30702591 15284736 83 Linux
  • [23:55:46] <tdill> m_billybob: ok, thanks just seemed unusual
  • [23:56:11] <m_billybob> looks normal to me
  • [23:56:13] <tdill> m_billybob: ah you dont have that, hmm,
  • [23:56:20] <m_billybob> dont have what ?
  • [23:56:35] <mastiff> if I'm looking at the correct numbers, it's not the correct md5 at all/???
  • [23:56:42] <tdill> the free space at the beginning
  • [23:57:13] * SeeMitchPlay (~seemitchp@host-131-144-107-208.midco.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:57:20] <m_billybob> tdill no i dont
  • [23:57:24] <SpeedEvil> fiola: http://8devices.com/product/3/carambola
  • [23:57:31] <m_billybob> atleast fdisk -l isnt showing it
  • [23:58:20] <SeeMitchPlay> I want to put my beaglebone (either white or black) in my car and power from 12V->5V reg. will I need to make a circuit that detects when power is cut to the 12V and auto-shutdown or can I mount the sd card as readonly and have it safe to just unplug power?
  • [23:58:51] <m_billybob> tdill, i did an equivenet in terms of drives you have . . . -> sde complete wipe, then hand created both needed partitions and nothing more
  • [23:58:57] <mru> read-only is always safe
  • [23:59:00] <m_billybob> tdill has tha tsd been in a windows box ?
  • [23:59:21] <tdill> m_billybob: no it's only been connected to linux since I bought it
  • [23:59:40] <SeeMitchPlay> so it won't hurt/corrupt the SD card if I am constantly starting up and pulling power, as long as the SD card mounts as RO?
  • [23:59:52] <m_billybob> ah ok, well i asked because windows created some funky partition like that too
  • [23:59:54] <mastiff> ka6sox: my BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.05.20.img.xz appears to be correct size,