• [00:09:52] <kaio> hi how large for microcard if android/ubuntu is going to be installed? (for bbxm)
  • [00:10:03] <kaio> how large recommended
  • [00:10:19] <kaio> considering between 8gb and 16gb
  • [00:13:50] * borillion (~borillion@c-67-169-176-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [00:26:14] * marcompile (Marco@20158052121.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [00:26:18] * marcompile (Marco@20158052121.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #beagleboard
  • [00:45:09] * marcompile (Marco@20158052121.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [00:48:27] * b7500af1 (~vt@70-32-197-111.unassigned.ntelos.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [00:55:35] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [00:59:00] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [00:59:14] * marcompile (Marco@20158052121.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [00:59:18] * marcompile (Marco@20158052121.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #beagleboard
  • [01:20:03] * pfefferz (~pfefferz@76-205-172-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [01:20:16] * pfefferz (~pfefferz@76-205-172-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Changing host)
  • [01:20:16] * pfefferz (~pfefferz@linaro/pfefferz) has joined #beagle
  • [01:28:08] * jevin (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
  • [01:30:58] * jevin (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) has joined #beagle
  • [01:31:38] * Openfree` (~Openfreer@116.228.88.131) has joined #beagle
  • [01:46:22] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-86-197.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ()
  • [02:21:16] * rlrosa (~rrosa@64-60-141-114.static-ip.telepacific.net) has left #beagle
  • [02:43:54] * raster (raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org) has joined #beagle
  • [02:43:54] * raster (raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org) Quit (Changing host)
  • [02:43:54] * raster (raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) has joined #beagle
  • [02:57:30] * Russ (foobar@ip70-176-251-1.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [03:07:39] * GPSFan (~kenm@64.92.145.112) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [03:17:29] * jefferai (~quassel@kde/amarok/mitchell) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [03:17:45] * ZeZu (null@c-98-227-57-88.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [03:19:33] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [03:20:29] * Animule (~Animal@75-171-199-2.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #beagle
  • [03:23:47] * jefferai (~quassel@kde/amarok/mitchell) has joined #beagle
  • [03:37:23] * jevin (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
  • [03:41:28] * jevin (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) has joined #beagle
  • [03:52:54] * borillion (~borillion@c-67-169-176-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [04:16:28] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [04:19:38] * emeb (~ericb@ip72-223-85-60.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [04:21:35] * kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake
  • [04:30:36] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
  • [04:35:50] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [04:36:15] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [04:36:28] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [04:49:13] * Russ (foobar@ip70-176-251-1.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [04:51:08] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [04:55:23] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  • [04:58:33] * hitlin37 (b64723e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.71.35.228) has joined #beagle
  • [05:33:57] * Animule (~Animal@75-171-199-2.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Not all men are created equal. Only the finest become Cowboys.)
  • [05:35:26] * dl9pf_ (~quassel@p5B213E2B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [05:37:01] * dl9pf (~quassel@p5B21324E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #beagle
  • [05:37:01] * dl9pf (~quassel@p5B21324E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Changing host)
  • [05:37:01] * dl9pf (~quassel@opensuse/member/dl9pf) has joined #beagle
  • [05:37:42] * matthsu (~matt@61-220-35-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) has joined #beagle
  • [05:51:40] * l4 (~marius@88.119.128.50) has joined #beagle
  • [05:58:24] * jevin (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
  • [06:02:58] * jevin (~jevin@napalm.jevinskie.com) has joined #beagle
  • [06:04:44] * drakkan1000 (~drakkan@dynamic-adsl-94-36-190-58.clienti.tiscali.it) has joined #beagle
  • [06:12:08] * kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle
  • [06:18:59] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-102-7-17.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #beagle
  • [06:20:17] * Scepterr is now known as redbull
  • [06:21:08] * redbull is now known as Scepterr
  • [06:26:13] * ZeZu (null@c-98-227-57-88.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [06:28:29] * Hun (~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [06:31:59] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-094-221-030-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #beagle
  • [06:33:15] * marcompile (Marco@20158052121.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [06:41:34] * parts (~anonymous@is010037.intra.cea.fr) has joined #beagle
  • [06:54:48] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@2001:4cb8:17:1:f24d:a2ff:fe65:bd7e) has joined #beagle
  • [06:54:53] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@2001:4cb8:17:1:f24d:a2ff:fe65:bd7e) Quit (Changing host)
  • [06:54:53] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) has joined #beagle
  • [07:01:24] * y4u (~gordon@d58-106-80-65.sbr801.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [07:03:27] * y4u (~gordon@d58-106-66-156.sbr800.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #beagle
  • [07:31:51] * perter-jim (~mike@183.62.141.147) has joined #beagle
  • [07:34:38] <perter-jim> hi I hava a question
  • [07:34:40] <perter-jim> W/AudioRecord( 4885): obtainBuffer timed out (is the CPU pegged?) user=0002ff80, server=0002ff80
  • [07:35:45] <perter-jim> record latency?
  • [07:38:31] * olsen (~sesselast@213.144.157.68) has joined #beagle
  • [07:50:27] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-102-7-17.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [08:00:37] * howlymowly (~quassel@tubsat.fb12.tu-berlin.de) has joined #beagleboard
  • [08:00:37] * howlymowly (~quassel@tubsat.fb12.tu-berlin.de) has joined #beagle
  • [08:09:35] * ant_work (~andrea@host6-80-static.42-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #beagle
  • [08:12:06] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [08:28:21] * matthsu (~matt@61-220-35-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [08:30:50] * topfs2 (~topfs2@xbmc/staff/topfs2) has joined #beagle
  • [08:37:14] * jpirko (~jirka@nat/redhat/x-gfsztifucqnvqfej) has joined #beagle
  • [08:47:41] * matthsu (~matt@61-220-35-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) has joined #beagle
  • [08:49:03] * Ceriand|desktop (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [08:52:14] * perter-jim (~mike@183.62.141.147) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [08:52:48] * matthsu (~matt@61-220-35-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  • [08:53:50] * perter-jim (~mike@183.62.141.147) has joined #beagle
  • [09:04:52] * jpirko (~jirka@nat/redhat/x-gfsztifucqnvqfej) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [09:05:33] * jpirko (~jirka@nat/redhat/x-dezvqpfxtlloxnuf) has joined #beagle
  • [09:24:02] * matthsu (~matt@61-220-35-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) has joined #beagle
  • [09:33:23] * drakkan1000_ (~drakkan@82.84.121.77) has joined #beagle
  • [09:34:16] * drakkan1000 (~drakkan@dynamic-adsl-94-36-190-58.clienti.tiscali.it) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [09:48:08] * siji (~siji@triband-mum-120.60.132.170.mtnl.net.in) has joined #beagle
  • [09:57:45] * drakkan1000_ (~drakkan@82.84.121.77) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [09:58:49] * djlewis (~quassel@75.15.64.51) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [09:59:08] * djlewis (~quassel@75.15.64.51) has joined #beagle
  • [10:10:53] * drakkan1000_ (~drakkan@dynamic-adsl-94-36-193-131.clienti.tiscali.it) has joined #beagle
  • [10:29:10] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@201.250.183.116) has joined #beagle
  • [10:46:50] * risca (~risca@norr-133-67.eduroam.liu.se) has joined #beagle
  • [10:50:41] * ankur_vjy (b495342c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.149.52.44) has joined #beagle
  • [10:50:49] <ankur_vjy> hello
  • [10:51:52] * ankur_vjy (b495342c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.149.52.44) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [11:07:54] * JLaurin (88a32c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.136.163.44.102) has joined #beagle
  • [11:10:15] * leming (~leming@c-67-164-174-68.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [11:17:37] * leming (~leming@c-67-164-174-68.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [11:26:24] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [11:31:53] * kukyakya (~kukyakya@icpc14.kaist.ac.kr) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [11:31:53] * Gaston|Home (Gaston@c-e92fe353.155-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [11:38:54] * DJWillis (djwillis@cpc3-bath5-2-0-cust220.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [11:43:18] * JoseLuis (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [11:43:44] * JoseLuis (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [11:43:52] * risca (~risca@norr-133-67.eduroam.liu.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [11:45:31] * C-MoH (~cipi@95.76.68.223) has joined #beagle
  • [11:45:33] * C-MoH (~cipi@95.76.68.223) Quit (Changing host)
  • [11:45:33] * C-MoH (~cipi@unaffiliated/c-moh) has joined #beagle
  • [11:49:05] * GrueMaster (~Grue@076-076-148-180.pdx.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [11:49:21] * GrueMaster (~Grue@076-076-148-180.pdx.net) has joined #beagle
  • [11:52:16] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [12:05:42] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [12:10:27] * JohnMatt (54e86b33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.232.107.51) has joined #beagle
  • [12:11:23] <JohnMatt> Hello, I'm trying to use a usb webcam with sound and I'm getting bandwidth errors when tryning to capture sound and audio at the same time
  • [12:11:33] <JohnMatt> What could I do?
  • [12:11:45] <JohnMatt> Using beagleboard-xm
  • [12:11:49] <av500> sound and audio at the same time?
  • [12:12:12] <JohnMatt> yes
  • [12:13:37] <JohnMatt> It's an usb webcam with incorporated microphone
  • [12:14:13] <JohnMatt> If I just try to record video, iti s fine, but when i try to record audio+video from it, i get bandwidth errors
  • [12:14:14] <thurbad> slow down the frame rate or decrease the resolution if it will let you
  • [12:14:54] <JohnMatt> the resolution i am using is 320x240 which is low already
  • [12:15:01] <JohnMatt> framerate 12
  • [12:15:20] <JohnMatt> i will try to decreae framerate
  • [12:15:23] <thurbad> :/
  • [12:15:53] <JohnMatt> do you think the problem could be im also using a usb wireless stick?
  • [12:16:01] <thurbad> my frankenomapfbplayer finally has audio and video synched properly when pausing
  • [12:16:05] <thurbad> \o/
  • [12:16:39] <thurbad> if you've got much traffic on it, probably
  • [12:17:17] <thurbad> try plugging into ethernet and see if it stabilizes
  • [12:17:22] <JohnMatt> normally it would have as much traffic as i stream outside, around 300 kbps
  • [12:17:42] <JohnMatt> i also tried to remove the ethernet driver to see if it works better
  • [12:17:49] <JohnMatt> but no luck
  • [12:19:17] <JohnMatt> i still get this error when using 1 FPS
  • [12:19:53] <JohnMatt> someitmes it comes from the webcam videodriver, others from alsa...but both related to usb bandwidth issues
  • [12:19:59] <JohnMatt> trying ethernet....
  • [12:20:06] <thurbad> did you unplug the wireless adapter?
  • [12:20:20] <JohnMatt> i will do it now one sec
  • [12:23:44] <thurbad> oddly the a/v sync problems went away when I went with a simpler sync approach... occam's razor I suppose
  • [12:23:54] <JohnMatt> i got several warnings like
  • [12:23:55] <JohnMatt> [ 54.624755] zc3xx: probe 2wr ov vga 0x0000 [ 56.267242] gspca: bandwidth not wide enough - trying again
  • [12:24:05] <JohnMatt> but it is recording
  • [12:24:16] <JohnMatt> both audio and video
  • [12:25:46] <av500> thurbad: approahc being?
  • [12:26:46] <JohnMatt> isnt there anything i can do to use my wireless stick and the webcamera?
  • [12:27:12] <thurbad> I finally just added a semaphore to signify thevideo buffer was initialized and a second for when it's paused
  • [12:27:39] * siji (~siji@triband-mum-120.60.132.170.mtnl.net.in) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [12:28:03] <JohnMatt> maybe iwconfig wlan0 rate 1M helps?
  • [12:28:16] <thurbad> occasionally pausing the audio midstream didn't work because it was in the process of getting the next audio chunk rather than actively playing one
  • [12:31:54] <thurbad> getting stuff to pause at the right points worked much better than trying to get them back into sync after the fact
  • [12:32:28] <av500> both can be done
  • [12:33:25] <thurbad> of course, updating the timer used for synching based on the duration of the pause helped too
  • [12:33:33] <thurbad> :P
  • [12:34:10] <av500> sounds strange
  • [12:34:14] <av500> why would you need that?
  • [12:34:20] <av500> when you pause audio time stops
  • [12:34:23] <av500> as does video time
  • [12:35:00] <JohnMatt> when webcam birate gets increased the fps decreases to zero when the wireless stick is on...
  • [12:35:19] <thurbad> the way mru did the timer is based on system time
  • [12:35:23] <av500> yes, usb on omap sucks
  • [12:36:17] <JohnMatt> very dissapointing
  • [12:37:02] <thurbad> a lot of these usb wireless adapters have requirements for like 1.2 GHz processors
  • [12:37:25] <JohnMatt> but it happens even if the usb stick is removed
  • [12:37:30] <JohnMatt> when bitrate increases
  • [12:37:34] <thurbad> ah, eww
  • [12:37:43] <JohnMatt> and it is also recording video
  • [12:37:49] <JohnMatt> sorry, audio*
  • [12:38:01] <JohnMatt> i get no images when the bitrate increases
  • [12:38:15] <JohnMatt> i guess i will have to use the line-in jack...
  • [12:39:08] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [12:40:37] * siji (~siji@triband-mum-120.60.133.16.mtnl.net.in) has joined #beagle
  • [12:41:33] <JohnMatt> when bitrate is higher....i see cpu usage decreases upto 3%, i bet thats coz of usb bandwidth, cant handle audio and video
  • [12:41:48] <JohnMatt> this is the command i use
  • [12:41:52] <JohnMatt> ffmpeg -r 9000 -ac 1 -f alsa -i hw:1,0 -f video4linux2 -s 320x240 -r 12 -i /dev/video0 -f mpegts -vcodec libxvid -acodec libmp3lame udp://192.168.2.233:1234
  • [12:44:26] * matthsu (~matt@61-220-35-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [12:44:38] * olsen (~sesselast@213.144.157.68) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [12:53:38] * khasim (~a0393720@203.101.61.7) has joined #beagle
  • [12:57:03] * ZeZu (~null@c-98-227-57-88.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [12:58:02] * Hoolxi (~Openfree@124.78.89.139) has joined #beagle
  • [12:59:12] * olsen (~sesselast@fwe.zhdk.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [13:00:18] * hadara (hadara@bsd.ee) Quit (Quit: Changing server)
  • [13:03:16] * niclas_ (~niclas@nat/ti/x-vswadjaygbwpnqlf) Quit ()
  • [13:05:00] * siji (~siji@triband-mum-120.60.133.16.mtnl.net.in) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [13:09:09] * l4 (~marius@88.119.128.50) Quit (Quit: l4)
  • [13:17:48] * khasim (~a0393720@203.101.61.7) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [13:18:30] * derirremitderwaf (~derirremi@HSI-KBW-46-223-13-196.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #beagle
  • [13:18:48] * khasim (~a0393720@203.101.61.7) has joined #beagle
  • [13:21:01] * raster (raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) Quit (Quit: Gettin' stinky!)
  • [13:21:41] * khasim (~a0393720@203.101.61.7) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [13:21:59] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [13:23:12] * matthsu (~matt@220-136-83-178.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #beagle
  • [13:25:13] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [13:25:37] <JohnMatt> anyone has idea o what IC preamp can i use to power a mic so i can use it for the bagleboard-xm?
  • [13:25:49] <JohnMatt> through the line-in minijack
  • [13:32:15] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [13:34:17] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [13:37:03] * ant_work (~andrea@host6-80-static.42-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [13:43:02] * b7500af1 (~vt@2001:468:c80:4240:21c:bfff:fe8b:9c32) has joined #beagle
  • [13:54:49] * ZeZu (~null@c-98-227-57-88.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [13:58:41] * niclas_ (~niclas@nat/ti/x-vcmdriralxsszwhv) has joined #beagle
  • [14:04:04] * hitlin37 (b64723e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.71.35.228) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [14:04:50] <djlewis> JohnMatt: that schematic and parts list should be all over the net
  • [14:04:57] <djlewis> common item
  • [14:05:31] <djlewis> depends on what type mic though.
  • [14:06:22] * jpirko (~jirka@nat/redhat/x-dezvqpfxtlloxnuf) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [14:09:01] <JohnMatt> djlewis i dont mind the type of micprohone im not looking for top quality
  • [14:09:08] <JohnMatt> just something which works
  • [14:09:27] <JohnMatt> i guess an electret one should do the job
  • [14:10:02] <riot> debian on a pandaboard is niiice :)
  • [14:10:23] <riot> thanks to all who made that work \o/
  • [14:11:55] <JohnMatt> ive readed somewhre i should use a MAX9812
  • [14:12:00] <JohnMatt> preampt
  • [14:12:36] <JohnMatt> but i dont see any schematic for this
  • [14:15:00] * ericb2 (~X@unaffiliated/ericb2) Quit (Quit: . . . ........)
  • [14:20:56] * JLaurin (88a32c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.136.163.44.102) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [14:32:51] * ericb2 (~X@unaffiliated/ericb2) has joined #beagle
  • [14:36:13] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-102-7-17.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #beagle
  • [14:40:36] * test (4d6d64b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.109.100.182) has joined #beagle
  • [14:45:20] * Rubenz (~bla@77.109.100.182) has joined #beagle
  • [14:46:19] * test (4d6d64b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.109.100.182) Quit ()
  • [14:47:02] * Ezarto (~Ez@d54C158A2.access.telenet.be) has joined #beagle
  • [14:48:02] * Ezarto (~Ez@d54C158A2.access.telenet.be) has left #beagle
  • [14:50:31] <Rubenz> hi, can i ask for some advice?
  • [14:50:57] <Rubenz> on OS choice for the beagleboard
  • [14:51:08] <av500> ask
  • [14:51:30] * GPSFan (~kenm@64.92.145.112) has joined #beagle
  • [14:51:56] <Rubenz> For my masters thesis, I'm going to try and build a quadcopter. But the requirement is, that it runs a RTOS.
  • [14:52:21] <av500> I thought the requirement is that it flies in the end
  • [14:52:31] <Rubenz> of course :)
  • [14:52:34] <av500> but that might not be academic enough....
  • [14:53:02] * parts (~anonymous@is010037.intra.cea.fr) Quit (Quit: parts)
  • [14:53:09] <Rubenz> but i was wondering, are there any pro's and cons between running WinCE vs QNX on the beagleboard
  • [14:53:30] <av500> wince is a RTOS now?
  • [14:55:05] <Rubenz> from version 3 onward
  • [14:55:25] <av500> and you have wince for beagle?
  • [14:55:28] <av500> or QNX?
  • [14:55:54] <Rubenz> well we have a licence at school yes
  • [14:56:00] <Rubenz> and there are BSP's for both
  • [14:57:06] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [14:57:10] <av500> and support?
  • [14:58:15] <Rubenz> don't know yet
  • [14:59:52] * novogrammer (~novogramm@w0109-49-135-136-117.uqwimax.jp) has joined #beagle
  • [15:00:18] <Rubenz> but i was thinking, I need pwm control for the rotors. So i would try to use the gpio's for that. In the BSP for WinCE it says a gpio driver is included. But i was wondering if anyone had some experience with using it.
  • [15:00:48] <Rubenz> and how hard it would be to use the gpios on qnx vs wince
  • [15:01:21] <av500> 1) not much wince or qnx knowledge here
  • [15:01:27] <av500> 2) PWM via GPIO is a nogo
  • [15:01:44] <Rubenz> how would you pwm?
  • [15:01:50] <av500> externally
  • [15:02:07] <Rubenz> hmm
  • [15:02:56] <av500> http://mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/BrushlessCtrl
  • [15:03:07] <av500> via I2C
  • [15:03:29] <av500> as an example
  • [15:04:00] <av500> assuming you have a brushless
  • [15:04:18] <Rubenz> yes, i'm looking into some kits, but all of them brushless
  • [15:08:07] <av500> how would you control the brushless with a PWM?
  • [15:08:51] <Rubenz> well i was looking at
  • [15:08:55] <Rubenz> this: http://store.scoutuav.com/products-page/airframes/scout-quadcopter-kit/
  • [15:09:36] <Rubenz> but i can't find much info on how the ESC's supplied with the kit can be controlled
  • [15:10:19] <av500> pwm I guess
  • [15:10:26] <GGuyZ> av500: Could you please explain again why in YUV422 a frame buffer is of size H*W*2 (Shouldn't it be W*H*3/2?), and in YUV420 Planar it's H*W*3/2?
  • [15:10:28] <av500> prolly like a servo
  • [15:10:55] <av500> GGuyZ: http://www.fourcc.org/yuv.php
  • [15:11:56] <av500> GGuyZ: in short, YUV422 has 2x the color info than YUV420
  • [15:12:13] <av500> which if you convert YUV420 to YUV422 means you are wasting memory
  • [15:12:28] <Rubenz> yea, thats what i read on forums so far. I guess i could then make a small circuit with a ?c with some hardware pwm control that takes i?c input. from the beagle. (sorry to interrupt)
  • [15:12:41] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [15:12:41] <av500> np, this is irc
  • [15:14:47] <GGuyZ> av500: Actually I read it before asking. 420 contains y/4 u values and y/4 v values. That's y + y/2 = 3y/2 values. 4:2:2 contains 2y data. Is that the reason?
  • [15:15:21] <av500> Rubenz: or you find an ESC that has I2C in the 1st place
  • [15:15:28] <GGuyZ> and in 4:2:0 you split it to 3 planes (Y, U, V), while in 4:2:2 it's (always?) packed/interleaved --> 1 plane?
  • [15:15:35] <av500> no
  • [15:16:07] <av500> packed vs interleaved is another thing
  • [15:16:22] <av500> packed vs planar I mean
  • [15:16:24] <odavilar> I'v a beagle xM rev C, i'm using an Adaptor with 5v-2A, when i try to boot using 2 usb ports it don't boots, after loading the kernel it keeps it self rebooting, do you know something about it?
  • [15:16:40] <av500> you can have 4:2:0 planar as well, they it is 4Y for 1U and 1V
  • [15:16:59] <av500> or you interleave only U and V and get NV12
  • [15:17:07] <GGuyZ> av500: And in that case you split it to 3 buffers?
  • [15:17:17] <GGuyZ> and I guess you meant 4:2:2
  • [15:17:23] <av500> no
  • [15:17:24] <GGuyZ> uh, no
  • [15:17:25] <GGuyZ> nm
  • [15:17:45] <av500> x:y:z say something about how much bit per color and pixel
  • [15:17:59] <av500> packed vs planar says how it is in memory
  • [15:18:29] <GGuyZ> And what determines the number of buffers used (planes)?
  • [15:18:42] <GGuyZ> packed = 1, planar = 2/3?
  • [15:18:46] <GGuyZ> 2 or 3 that is
  • [15:18:47] <av500> ???
  • [15:18:51] <av500> nothing
  • [15:19:08] <av500> you can pack vs planar as you see fit
  • [15:19:14] <Rubenz> av500: yes i'm looking into that now. Thanks for the advice!
  • [15:19:15] <av500> and as the codec/hardware supports it
  • [15:21:16] <GGuyZ> Alright, gotcha. One more question - I understand what packed means. Isn't interleaved the same thing?
  • [15:21:55] <av500> yes
  • [15:22:00] <av500> Rubenz: http://skymixer.engineering.free.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=95:zef100-v100-brushless-controller&catid=49:motor-controllers&Itemid=49
  • [15:22:15] <GGuyZ> av500: Great, thanks!
  • [15:22:59] <av500> based on http://home.versanet.de/~b-konze/blc_6a/blc_6a.htm
  • [15:23:16] <av500> based on an atmega, as I said in the 1st place :)
  • [15:24:17] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [15:25:45] <GGuyZ> av500: Sorry, one more please :). When converting from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 you need to add an additional Pixels/4 values. Do you simply replicate identical UV values, or you calculate some kind of weighted average to create distinct UV values?
  • [15:25:57] <av500> depends
  • [15:26:26] <av500> for these pixel formats, sometimes the color positions is different
  • [15:26:33] <av500> so to do it exactly, it can be tricky
  • [15:26:37] * panto (~panto@vfppp062038104093.dsl.hol.gr) has joined #beagle
  • [15:26:44] <av500> for quick and dirty you just replicate
  • [15:27:42] <GGuyZ> In mru's neon pix convert for an example? Was it replication or more advanced?
  • [15:28:07] <JohnMatt> is there any pin i can use to power a 5v preamp so i can use a microphone with beagleboard?
  • [15:28:31] <av500> GGuyZ: IIRC is averages 2 lines or so
  • [15:29:11] <av500> GGuyZ: see here for what I meant with "position": http://discoverybiz.net/enu0/faq/faq_YUVSubSampleByBreeze.html
  • [15:30:42] <GGuyZ> Thanks, now it's clear :)
  • [15:30:56] <av500> didnt you have a deadline/presentation?
  • [15:31:27] <GGuyZ> Yes. It was postponed from last week to the day after tomorrow
  • [15:32:13] <av500> ah
  • [15:32:16] <GGuyZ> But this is more related to general interest. I'm a bit sorry I didn't take class on video signal processing
  • [15:32:52] <GGuyZ> av500: My professor was thrilled to hear things were working on the DSP :)
  • [15:42:54] <mru> GGuyZ: my conversion code averages lines to create the odd output lines
  • [15:43:01] <mru> it's better than replicating but still not correct
  • [15:50:40] * emeb (~ericb@ip72-223-85-60.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:50:54] * Hoolxi (~Openfree@124.78.89.139) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  • [15:51:40] * mlip|aw (~mlip@unaffiliated/mlip) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [15:54:11] * mlip|aw (~mlip@85.127.60.103) has joined #beagle
  • [15:59:39] * olsen (~sesselast@fwe.zhdk.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:00:28] * kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake
  • [16:04:27] * Hoolxi (~Openfree@124.78.89.139) has joined #beagle
  • [16:07:19] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:11:08] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:17:09] * khasim (~a0393720@203.101.61.7) has joined #beagle
  • [16:20:58] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:21:20] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:22:52] * thurbad_ (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:22:52] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [16:22:53] * thurbad_ is now known as thurbad
  • [16:23:04] * khasim (~a0393720@203.101.61.7) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [16:25:25] * thurbad_ (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:27:09] * thurbad (~natesewel@99-130-101-77.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:27:09] * thurbad_ is now known as thurbad
  • [16:27:28] * kukyakya (~kukyakya@icpc14.kaist.ac.kr) has joined #beagle
  • [16:28:52] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-89-102-7-17.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:32:08] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:40:16] * mnt_real (~sinan@bas1-montreal43-2925254943.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #beagleboard
  • [16:44:12] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [16:44:16] * olsen (~sesselast@xdsl-188-155-179-205.adslplus.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [16:48:00] <b7500af1> question about dsplink: Is there any reason that PROC_load() should take a very long time (30+ seconds) to return? It's a small dsp exe (300kB). And it does return successfully, eventually.
  • [16:48:12] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [16:48:23] <av500> dsp running at 32khz?
  • [16:48:46] <b7500af1> that's what it feels like
  • [16:50:35] <av500> no idea
  • [16:54:14] * olsen (~sesselast@xdsl-188-155-179-205.adslplus.ch) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [16:54:42] * mctouch (~mctouch@cpc17-sgyl28-2-0-cust34.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #beagle
  • [16:57:25] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [16:58:28] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [17:01:29] * peabody124 (~peabody12@c-98-201-163-231.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [17:02:39] * Crofton|work (~balister@pool-74-107-169-81.ronkva.east.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [17:11:31] * Openfree` (~Openfreer@116.228.88.131) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  • [17:12:18] * Hoolxi (~Openfree@124.78.89.139) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  • [17:21:54] * Crofton (~balister@pool-74-107-169-81.ronkva.east.verizon.net) has joined #beagle
  • [17:24:51] * AngryParsley (~AngryPars@unaffiliated/angryparsley) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [17:26:50] * AngryParsley (~AngryPars@li140-157.members.linode.com) has joined #beagle
  • [17:31:01] * balau (~balau@host42-69-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #beagle
  • [17:33:46] * panto (~panto@vfppp062038104093.dsl.hol.gr) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [17:38:27] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [17:43:56] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [17:43:59] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [17:47:06] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [17:52:52] * matthsu (~matt@220-136-83-178.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  • [17:56:34] * AngryParsley (~AngryPars@li140-157.members.linode.com) Quit (Changing host)
  • [17:56:34] * AngryParsley (~AngryPars@unaffiliated/angryparsley) has joined #beagle
  • [17:56:35] * florian (~fuchs@sign-4db609e6.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #beagle
  • [17:56:35] * florian (~fuchs@sign-4db609e6.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (Changing host)
  • [17:56:35] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [18:07:10] * JohnMatt (54e86b33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.232.107.51) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [18:15:35] <_av500_> enable dsplink debug and see where it spends time
  • [18:15:42] <b7500af1> av500, I was just looking through some of the dsplink examples and see that in almost every case some memory pool is allocated prior to proc_load.. is that required? or maybe since I'm not doing that in my code, that's causing the delay?
  • [18:19:35] * Ceriand|desktop (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) has joined #beagle
  • [18:37:17] <_av500_> unlikely
  • [18:37:28] <_av500_> you knowyourself if you need mem or not
  • [18:37:32] <_av500_> in your app
  • [18:46:46] * amitk (~amit@c-76-126-117-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [18:47:32] * topfs2 (~topfs2@xbmc/staff/topfs2) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [18:47:59] * drakkan1000_ (~drakkan@dynamic-adsl-94-36-193-131.clienti.tiscali.it) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  • [18:48:32] <b7500af1> _av500_, the debug isn't too helpful. Here is a snip of the output: http://pastebin.com/fr4T892M
  • [18:50:46] <_av500_> these are kernel logs?
  • [18:51:10] <_av500_> or user space?
  • [18:51:13] <b7500af1> user
  • [18:51:15] <_av500_> ah
  • [18:51:23] <_av500_> the real stuff happens in kernel
  • [18:53:08] <_av500_> so enable kernel logs
  • [18:53:22] <b7500af1> rgr
  • [18:54:41] <_av500_> there is a wiki that explains how
  • [18:54:56] <b7500af1> I've been using this: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Enabling_trace_in_DSPLink
  • [18:55:06] <b7500af1> not the simplest thing.. but so far it's worked.
  • [18:56:02] <b7500af1> I'm not sure what components out of the list should be enabled.. so just guessing: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Enabling_trace_in_DSPLink#Enabling_kernel-level_prints
  • [19:00:11] * amitk (~amit@c-76-126-117-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [19:04:04] <_av500_> yes
  • [19:04:19] <_av500_> you need to edit that one file and enable traces for components
  • [19:04:27] <_av500_> proc looks like a good candidate
  • [19:04:31] <_av500_> but see for yourself
  • [19:04:32] <b7500af1> yeah, heh
  • [19:04:58] <b7500af1> I'm trying it.. I can't tell a difference between the output.. so trying others
  • [19:05:24] <_av500_> you rebuild the module?
  • [19:05:27] <_av500_> and reload it?
  • [19:05:28] <b7500af1> yep
  • [19:15:57] * peabody124 (~peabody12@128.249.96.21) has joined #beagle
  • [19:18:07] <thweber> something changed for the gpio192? write protect for mmc ? i get [ 0.391510] _omap_mux_init_gpio: Could not set gpio192
  • [19:30:17] * phantoxe (~destroy@a95-92-86-197.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #beagle
  • [19:44:02] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@145.79-161-31.customer.lyse.net) has joined #beagle
  • [19:48:52] <b7500af1> av500, from that wiki.. there is something missing as far as turning on kernel trace. You have a different site?
  • [19:49:29] <b7500af1> I think it has something along the lines of a -DTRACE_KERNEL flag.. but then the compiler screams about "trace1_print" being undefined, etc...
  • [19:50:10] <_av500_> afaik you need to edit some header file
  • [19:52:46] <_av500_> edit drv_pmgr.c as it says there
  • [19:52:56] * rlrosa (~rrosa@64-60-141-114.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #beagleboard
  • [19:52:57] <_av500_> for a start enable all debug if needed
  • [19:53:48] * rlrosa (~rrosa@64-60-141-114.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #beagle
  • [19:53:52] <rlrosa> hi
  • [19:54:12] <rlrosa> does anybody know how to contact the admin for the beagleboard googlegroup?
  • [19:54:26] <_av500_> jkridner: ^^^^
  • [19:54:28] <rlrosa> i've been "banned" from it, though i have never interacted with it
  • [19:55:01] <mru> maybe you are a spammer :)
  • [19:56:38] <rlrosa> mru: jaj
  • [19:56:44] <rlrosa> mru: i'll double check
  • [19:57:10] <rlrosa> it's pretty annoying, i have to use "incognito" mode to be able to see the posts
  • [19:57:29] <rlrosa> does anybody know how to contact the admin for the beagleboard googlegroup?
  • [19:57:37] <rlrosa> i've been "banned" from it, though i have never interacted with it
  • [19:58:46] <_av500_> hmm
  • [19:58:55] <_av500_> send an email to jason
  • [20:00:36] * niclas_ (~niclas@nat/ti/x-vcmdriralxsszwhv) Quit ()
  • [20:04:00] * topfs2 (~topfs2@xbmc/staff/topfs2) has joined #beagle
  • [20:05:49] <GGuyZ> mru: Sorry, I online now returned. Thanks for replying. So an average of each 2 even consecutive lines creates the corresponding odd output line?
  • [20:06:06] <GGuyZ> online=only :P
  • [20:06:46] <mru> yes, that is what my code does
  • [20:07:31] <mru> but that results in output that's off by half a pixel
  • [20:07:54] <mru> which is good enough for display purposes
  • [20:08:16] * novogrammer (~novogramm@w0109-49-135-136-117.uqwimax.jp) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [20:09:04] <mru> doing it properly would be slower
  • [20:11:12] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@145.79-161-31.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [20:14:54] <GGuyZ> Why's that? if you care to explain.. (off by half a pixel)
  • [20:17:39] <mru> 420 chroma samples are half-way between luma samples
  • [20:18:03] <mru> while 422 chroma samples are cosited with luma
  • [20:19:16] * risca (~risca@h241n2-n-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #beagle
  • [20:20:21] <thurbad> any know why an app would throw an illegal instruction error when debugging remotely if it was conpiled on the board?
  • [20:20:39] <GGuyZ> mru: Thanks.. (Reading about it some more)
  • [20:21:39] <mru> thurbad: maybe you executed an illegal instruction...
  • [20:22:00] <thurbad> yeah, I realize that.. but how?
  • [20:23:00] <mru> what exactly did you do?
  • [20:23:29] <thurbad> let someone else at work work on the code :/
  • [20:24:08] <GGuyZ> thurbad: revert
  • [20:24:10] <GGuyZ> :D
  • [20:24:30] <mru> gdb
  • [20:24:35] <mru> x/i $pc
  • [20:24:43] <thurbad> considering it, but we did some work in parallel
  • [20:25:55] * GGuyZ wishes his beagle puppy would be as obedient as the beagle board
  • [20:26:08] <GGuyZ> thurbad: plus, I don't suppose he'd be too happy
  • [20:26:39] <thurbad> more concerned with fixing the codebase at this point
  • [20:36:20] * peabody124_ (~peabody12@128.249.95.15) has joined #beagle
  • [20:37:47] <rlrosa> av500: jason at gmail?
  • [20:38:12] <_av500_> rlrosa: see the beagle mailing list
  • [20:38:19] <_av500_> only one jason kridner there
  • [20:38:52] <_av500_> gn
  • [20:39:49] * peabody124 (~peabody12@128.249.96.21) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [20:40:34] * peabody124_ (~peabody12@128.249.95.15) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [20:43:04] * Gaston|Home (Gaston@c-e92fe353.155-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #beagle
  • [20:50:06] * balau (~balau@host42-69-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [20:54:14] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-094-221-030-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
  • [20:54:52] <rlrosa> av500: found jason. thanks! (again :) )
  • [21:04:34] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [21:20:59] * topfs2 (~topfs2@xbmc/staff/topfs2) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [21:34:56] * Animule (~Animal@65-103-121-158.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:36:39] * b7500af1 (~vt@2001:468:c80:4240:21c:bfff:fe8b:9c32) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [21:36:54] * derirremitderwaf (~derirremi@HSI-KBW-46-223-13-196.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has left #beagle
  • [21:42:21] <rlrosa> any tips on how to use uart1 on the xm?
  • [21:42:34] <rlrosa> i set the mux options in my u-boot
  • [21:43:02] * mctouch (~mctouch@cpc17-sgyl28-2-0-cust34.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
  • [21:43:09] <rlrosa> still get a periodic pulse on pin 15 from P13
  • [21:47:45] <GGuyZ> Is it safe to do opkg remove gnome / opkg install gnome? My FS got corrupted and some important gnome files aren't recoverable. I don't want to try a new image as I have many custom scripts in place I don't want to fish out :)
  • [21:52:53] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #beagle
  • [22:07:29] * pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.55.20) has joined #beagle
  • [22:07:29] * pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.55.20) Quit (Changing host)
  • [22:07:29] * pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) has joined #beagle
  • [22:26:33] * tegila (~tegila@189-015-95-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [22:37:07] * GGuyZ (~guyz@bzq-79-176-185-39.red.bezeqint.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [23:12:15] * GGuyZ (~guyz@bzq-79-182-185-106.red.bezeqint.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:23:29] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [23:28:29] * peabody124 (~peabody12@99-63-106-203.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #beagle
  • [23:53:18] * C-MoH (~cipi@unaffiliated/c-moh) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)