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[00:41:50] <aayush> Hi Guys..
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[07:26:50] <dm8tbr> hmmm libav seems to use an elbonian random number generator for some things
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[10:11:54] <Crofton> koen, you about
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[10:34:47] <Darthy> does someone know a good place to build a modified beagle-board (some components stripped away + some others added)? the plan is build 2 or 3 modified boards - evaluate - build 500 boards. we need a small number of test-boards which are fully assembled with a modified pcb and the cad/bom files.
[10:37:26] <mru> dm8tbr: ??
[10:38:05] * mIKEjONES (~mIKEjONES@orbital.rh.rit.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:40:54] <Crofton> mru, are you claiming that by using a modern mlo, we no longer need to pay attention to CHS?
[10:41:11] <mru> yes
[10:41:22] <mru> I've been claiming that for over a year
[10:41:31] <mru> in fact, chs *NEVER* mattered
[10:41:36] <mru> only sector 63 did
[10:41:55] <mru> a partition can start at sector 63 whatever chs say
[10:42:53] <Crofton> let me rephrase, is the anything special you need to know to make a two partition sd card?
[10:43:23] <mru> if you use mkdosfs, the FAT partition should have an even number of sectors
[10:43:29] <mru> that is *ALL*
[10:43:31] <Darthy> and another question: which data-layout for multichannel audiosamples would you prefer when it comes to neon-optimizations? Non-Interleaved but aligned mono-buffers -> multichannel ?
[10:43:45] <mru> non-interleaved
[10:44:07] <mru> interleaved samples is a pain for any processing
[10:44:43] <dm8tbr> mru: nevermind, I found it fixed in libav head. but the ogg serial number (which is supposed to be random) was always "0"
[10:44:44] <Crofton> but this all depends on using a recent MLO, where recent means after March 2010 (or 2011)?
[10:44:56] <Darthy> out engine currently operates on interleaved audiobuffers.. but im currently working to change that
[10:45:24] <mru> dm8tbr: I opposed that "fix" for the record
[10:45:38] <mru> there's nothing in the spec saying 0 isn't valid
[10:46:02] <mru> it was written by some idiot who believed random = eternally unique
[10:46:12] <mru> Crofton: 2010
[10:46:25] <dm8tbr> rfc3533 says This unique serial number is created randomly and does not have any connection to the content or encoder of the logical bitstream it represents.
[10:47:22] <dm8tbr> but much more important is: Each
[10:47:22] <dm8tbr> chained logical bitstream MUST have a unique serial number within the
[10:47:23] <dm8tbr> scope of the physical bitstream.
[10:47:29] <mru> yes
[10:47:34] <Crofton> always using 0 is a random number with crappy randm properties :)
[10:47:49] <mru> so if you decide to chain two streams, you still have to check for collisions and reassign some
[10:48:16] <mru> there is no advantage to using a non-zero number
[10:48:21] <mru> so why bother?
[10:48:28] <dm8tbr> the collision probability is significantly lower for random 4byte numbers than for always 0
[10:48:34] <mru> it's not zero
[10:48:38] <mru> so you *MUST* check
[10:48:55] <mru> besides, anyone who "chains" ogg files deserves to be shot in the balls
[10:49:04] <Crofton> ouch
[10:49:29] <dm8tbr> mru: that's how icecast works and its in the spec
[10:49:38] <dm8tbr> mru: if you disagree propose a new ogg spec
[10:49:46] <mru> the spec says chained streams must have unique numbers
[10:49:56] <mru> so IF YOU CHAIN, you must ensure uniqueness
[10:50:03] <mru> with a single stream, zero is unique
[10:50:19] <mru> with more, simply counting up from zero will do just fine
[10:50:22] <dm8tbr> yes and source clients that chain ogg files together do this by checking the serial number
[10:50:30] <mru> there's nothing to be gained from using a "random" number
[10:50:47] <dm8tbr> if the serial is identical the source client throws an error and proceeds to the next file
[10:51:05] <mru> those are broken then
[10:51:20] <dm8tbr> they operate within the spec
[10:51:29] <mru> I'm certain there are 4 billion ogg files somewhere in the world
[10:51:33] <mru> they do not
[10:51:48] <mru> in fact, the spec is probably unimplementable in the strictest sense
[10:52:03] <dm8tbr> yes, but the probability of having two different files with the same randomly generated serial is LOW
[10:52:06] <dm8tbr> very low
[10:52:12] <mru> still non-zero
[10:52:20] <dm8tbr> yes, so?
[10:52:27] <mru> so you have to check it
[10:52:36] <mru> and reassign it if there is a collision
[10:52:42] <dm8tbr> so you say there is a 1 in billion chance to break things, so lets break them ALWAYS?
[10:52:52] <mru> nothing is broken
[10:52:55] <mru> it's within spec
[10:53:28] <mru> any software taking independent inputs and chaining them *MUST* check the numbers and make them unique
[10:53:45] <mru> otherwise someone, somewhere will eventually hit a collision
[10:53:53] <dm8tbr> no, that's your interpretation
[10:54:06] <dm8tbr> it MUST ensure that chained elements have unique serials
[10:54:11] <dm8tbr> that is something DIFFERENT
[10:54:12] <mru> that's impossible
[10:54:13] <Crofton> depending on random numbers not to be the same is not a good idea
[10:54:32] <mru> many serious security holes have arised through such stupid assumptions
[10:54:44] <dm8tbr> this is not a security feature
[10:55:04] <mru> if the chaining software detects a collision, it can simply rewrite the offending stream
[10:55:13] <mru> replacing one 32-bit number by another isn't hard
[10:55:27] <dm8tbr> the default implementations are to throw away the file
[10:55:30] <mru> the alternatives are creating invalid output or failing on correct inputs
[10:55:31] <dm8tbr> and proceed to the next
[10:55:40] <mru> then those implementations suck
[10:56:27] <dm8tbr> they might do in your opinion, still they are there and breaking things intentionally just to make a point about probability theory is plain rude
[10:57:09] <dm8tbr> ffmpeg was the only ogg muxer implementation to my knowledge that did this
[10:57:12] <mru> I never said break anything intentionally
[10:57:19] <mru> only to write simple code within spec
[10:57:36] <mru> I have another libogg wrapper that does that too
[10:57:55] <dm8tbr> if you set the serial to 0 always and know there is software that expects this not to be that way that is intentional
[10:58:10] <mru> I don't care about buggy software
[10:58:15] <mru> buggy software should be fixed
[10:58:33] <mru> it's like a C compiler refusing to compile valid code
[10:58:37] <dm8tbr> so you confirm that your intention would be to be plain rude?
[10:58:47] <mru> no, my intention is to keep the muxer simple
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[11:01:17] <dm8tbr> simplicity over compatibility, that sounds much like microsoft only implementing 'null' encryption because it was allowed by the spec. it is within spec, but it sucks for the users.
[11:01:42] <mru> null encryption is obviously stupid for other reasons
[11:02:01] <mru> using "random" stream IDs gains you nothing
[11:02:17] <dm8tbr> it gains you not breaking existing software
[11:02:24] <mru> that software is broken already
[11:02:34] <mru> go file a bug report
[11:03:25] * mlip is now known as mlip|aw
[11:04:14] <dm8tbr> I see you think that being radical and rude by implementing incompatible things seems to be more important to you than having software work together. So I don't think there is sense in discussing this further.
[11:04:36] <mru> I think following spec is important
[11:04:39] <mru> I follow spec
[11:04:52] <mru> if the others did too, there'd be no problem
[11:04:59] <dm8tbr> the others did
[11:04:59] <mru> so *they* are the ones intentionally breaking things
[11:05:02] <dm8tbr> there is a problem
[11:05:10] <mru> they do not follow spec
[11:05:12] <dm8tbr> the spec might need clarification
[11:05:15] <dm8tbr> they do
[11:05:21] <mru> they assume there will never be more than 4 billion ogg files, ever
[11:05:29] <mru> and that all of these will magically have unique IDs
[11:05:43] <Crofton> obviously, we need oggv6
[11:05:52] <mru> they clearly didn't think ogg would be very popular
[11:06:29] <dm8tbr> I still think that diverging incompatible implementations within spec should be avoided
[11:07:15] <mru> the spec is stupid
[11:07:53] <dm8tbr> then go propose an update
[11:08:12] <dm8tbr> you seem to think you know how to do it
[11:08:37] <mru> yes, remove the crap about random
[11:08:51] <mru> or better yet, remove ogg entirely
[11:09:02] <dm8tbr> I happily await your submission to the ogg mailing list
[11:09:05] <mru> random is not automatically unique
[11:09:23] <mru> so if you need unique, you *MUST* ensure it there and then
[11:09:37] <mru> you can't rely on independently created streams to have distinct IDs
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[11:25:30] <Crofton> 1400 emails to go
[11:27:04] * jconnolly is now known as jconnolly|away
[11:33:36] <wmat> Crofton: and 1 set of interview questions ;)
[11:33:47] <Crofton> yes
[11:33:57] <Crofton> I am still not home
[11:34:08] <Crofton> speaking at Trinity College in Dublin tomorrow
[11:34:13] <Crofton> then home Tuesday
[11:34:16] <wmat> nice!
[11:34:42] <wmat> no worries, I subjected Koen to the interview as well
[11:35:10] <wmat> so I'll feature Koen this month
[11:35:14] <Crofton> I did a good job on being on vacatoin
[11:35:28] <Crofton> only dealt with most important emails
[11:35:33] <Crofton> now paying the proce though
[11:35:43] <Crofton> ended up with an off day in Dublin
[11:35:59] <Crofton> so trying to get caught up, rather then prolong vacation :)
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[11:46:06] <wmat> wait, that means my interview was deemed less than important ;)
[11:49:44] <Crofton> yes :)
[11:49:52] <Crofton> less important than vacation
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[11:50:23] <wmat> heh, ok, I forgive you
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[12:28:44] <koen> Crofton: yes, I'm about
[12:29:15] <koen> Crofton: although I am in the UK next week
[12:30:13] <Crofton> has anyone made progress on qt with gles support?
[12:30:22] <Crofton> as in building it without hackery
[12:30:29] <koen> no
[12:30:35] <Crofton> bother
[12:30:39] <Crofton> oe-core any better?
[12:30:56] <koen> no
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[12:44:41] * koen gets reminded to send wmat the picture to go with the interview
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[12:46:24] <Crofton> oe-core emails deleted
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[12:50:27] <wmat> koen: thx, got it.
[12:50:42] <koen> Crofton: good reply on the oe-core ml, though
[12:50:52] <Crofton> heh
[12:51:03] <Crofton> people are too serious sometimes :)
[12:53:12] <Crofton> are these remoteproc patches on linux-omap going to be usefull for the dsp on omap3 one day?
[12:53:42] <koen> Crofton: they could be
[12:53:54] <koen> Crofton: they have been done for omap-l and omap4
[12:54:05] <koen> Crofton: btw, remoteproc is slang for syslink3
[12:55:27] <Crofton> I should point people that care about such things to them
[12:55:44] <koen> Crofton: we did find a slightly nicer way to get qt-gles by using the angstrom blacklister, but it wasn't a big success
[12:57:44] <Crofton> when I get home, I need to update kernel, uhd, fpga firmware and push it
[12:58:01] <Crofton> then I will need to update that annoying qt image
[12:59:10] <sakoman_> gm
[12:59:21] <koen> Crofton: fwiw, OE-core is in a good shape for the e100
[13:00:11] <koen> Crofton: after you get back you need to tell me where I need to patch in that swig threads workaround
[13:00:50] <Crofton> yeah
[13:00:53] <Crofton> gm
[13:01:32] <Crofton> I suspect I will keep updating the oe version until the next yocto release, but start working against yocto "soon"
[13:01:39] <Crofton> well oe-core
[13:02:10] <sakoman_> Crofton: I've been attempting to work with oe-core day to day
[13:02:23] <sakoman_> but it just isn't happening for me
[13:02:24] <Crofton> I'm on holiday, so not working
[13:02:35] <Crofton> well, I am sort of off holiday now
[13:02:40] <Crofton> but still in Dublin
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[13:49:55] <dkhungar> hello
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[13:54:25] <dkhungar> Hi
[13:55:00] <dkhungar> I need help on BeagleBoard-XM Rev C, cud I get the help
[13:58:58] <dm8tbr> you might, but only if you start asking real questions
[13:59:08] <dkhungar> ok
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[14:00:28] <dkhungar> Actualy, I bought a new one board, I used D-link 5V 3A power supply with this. Board worked for a while, then D13 LED flashed up for some time, and then board went off.
[14:01:58] <dkhungar> Now its not coming up, if I just plug in the power supply only for a moment, just D13 LES flashes, nothing else
[14:02:21] <dkhungar> Could u plz help me in understaning the situation
[14:02:45] <dm8tbr> did you try with a different power supply?
[14:03:08] <dkhungar> No
[14:04:42] <dkhungar> I have ordered a new one
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[14:10:59] <dm8tbr> have you tried with a different SD card?
[14:14:07] <dkhungar> No
[14:14:39] <dkhungar> But i plugged that out, no green LED on card is even glowing up
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[15:45:01] <wmat> saw this useful blog post this morning: http://www.electronsonradio.com/2011/07/angstrom-on-the-beagleboard-fixing-your-mac-address/
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[16:04:58] <ds2> that is dangerous!!!!!
[16:05:20] <ds2> if you are going to do that, at least set the locally admin. bit
[16:05:29] <ds2> and make damn sure you do not close those cards
[16:10:11] <ds2> s/close/clone/
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[17:01:22] <emeb_mac> wouldn't it have been a better idea to make the driver read the mfg's address from the eeprom on the device?
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[17:02:10] <mru> emeb_mac: there is no such eeprom on the beagle-xm
[17:02:23] <mru> the driver does read the mac address if one exists
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[17:02:44] <emeb_mac> Ah - missed that he was talking about the onboard enet of the XM
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[17:02:56] <djlewis> one of the cost / corner cutting things
[17:03:43] <emeb_mac> I suppose that there isn't any nonvolatile storage on the XM.
[17:04:28] <djlewis> the omap rom
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[17:06:02] <emeb_mac> errr - make that 'writable nonvolatile' :P
[17:09:05] <djlewis> yeah, a little bitty serial eprom
[17:09:23] <djlewis> like on the trainer and zippy and perhaps your board
[17:09:31] <djlewis> might do
[17:10:33] <emeb_mac> yep
[17:10:57] <emeb_mac> and they're pretty inexpensive in qty (like just a few pennies)
[17:11:48] <emeb_mac> but then beagleboard.org would likely have to buy a block of ethernet addresses & figure out how to assign them at mfg time
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[17:22:45] <tecdroid> hi
[17:24:22] <ds2> that's all fine but telling someone you can just make permanent a random address is a bad idea
[17:25:01] <ds2> that's almost as useful as saying, we need to keep thiefs out of a zoo, so let's pass out guns to all the primates
[17:25:10] <djlewis> long ago I had a issue with two computers dropping eth comm's
[17:25:20] <djlewis> turned out to be duplicate mac address
[17:25:37] <ds2> djlewis: if you had nice managed switch...
[17:25:41] <tecdroid> can someone give me a hint how to get a terminal connection to a beagle board? tried a serial connector from an old pc and a crossed serial cable (usb2rs232 adapter on my laptop) i powered the board via otg..
[17:25:43] <djlewis> two diff brand cards
[17:25:50] <mru> duplicate macs cause all sorts of nasty things
[17:25:53] <djlewis> not back in 90's
[17:26:11] <mru> there's not much a managed switch can do about duplicate macs
[17:26:41] <mru> it still can't know which destination packets are intended for
[17:27:28] <djlewis> mac's were originally supposed to be holy as in not duplicated if one played by the rules
[17:27:30] <ds2> a managed switch could flag it if you log in and look at the console
[17:27:42] <mru> that it could do
[17:27:48] <mru> makes debugging a little easier
[17:27:49] <djlewis> shuts one off?
[17:27:51] <ds2> not saying anything would solve it. trying to make diag as easy as possible
[17:28:12] <ds2> the next thing that could top it would be a cube/bench number to goto with a cluebat ;)
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[17:30:26] <mru> better yet, automatically trigger the builtin cluebat that swings from the ceiling
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[17:36:19] <djlewis> http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport.html
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[17:38:29] <djlewis> there are some spi to ether jacks but bulky.
[17:38:58] <djlewis> being a server this might not apply
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[17:52:38] <krzd> hi, i want to use i2c without an expension port but i can't figure out wich pins of the expansion header i have got to use. so which one do i have to use?
[17:54:13] <ds2> the ones documented as i2c
[17:54:36] * Darthy (~darthy@p579A9D52.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
[17:55:21] <krzd> ok then where exactly is it documentated? i am finding i2c in so many drawings that i am not getting any clue
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[17:56:58] <ds2> get the SRM
[17:57:00] <ds2> beagleboard.org
[17:57:34] <krzd> yeah for sure, thats what i am talking about. there is so much i2c in the document that it doesnt help me
[17:59:25] <djlewis> easy to follow SRM
[17:59:53] <djlewis> krzd: you have previous embedded experience?
[17:59:58] <krzd> if i would know in which section at least it is written
[18:00:02] <krzd> djlewis: nope
[18:00:33] <djlewis> krzd: why start with the omap?
[18:00:50] <djlewis> it is way more advanced than using a duimo
[18:01:03] <djlewis> arduino
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[18:02:06] <krzd> i need it for a school project. i want to read temperature from i2c and then control a relaiscard for an air conditioning accordingly. i ust want to connect it and run a ruby script on it. so i dont need much knowledge. just where the i2c pins are situated. or am i wrong?
[18:03:02] <djlewis> ugh...
[18:03:15] <krzd> ?
[18:03:51] <djlewis> why a ruby script? why not a simple "if then" in C on a simple chip?
[18:04:17] <krzd> because it should also serve a web interface
[18:04:32] <djlewis> so you have linux experience then?
[18:04:46] <krzd> i would say so
[18:05:16] <djlewis> then look into voltage translation as the BB is 1.8V I/O
[18:05:47] <krzd> that means?
[18:05:57] <djlewis> ugh...
[18:06:26] <djlewis> guy's, which rule am I thinking if here?
[18:06:36] * GrueMaster (~Grue@076-076-148-180.pdx.net) has joined #beagle
[18:06:51] <djlewis> s/if/of
[18:07:48] <djlewis> krzd: you dont have electronics background either?
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[18:07:56] <krzd> true
[18:08:01] <djlewis> ugh...
[18:08:21] <djlewis> is this mechanical engineering?
[18:08:48] <krzd> i thought it is easy to connect a serial cable and a i2c sensor and ready. this is just it
[18:08:56] <krzd> this is just IT
[18:09:03] <djlewis> serial cable, perhaps
[18:09:50] <djlewis> though ou will have to work a bit of linux magic to make it usable for general purpose
[18:10:01] <djlewis> as it is a console port
[18:10:35] <krzd> yeah thats another problem i have got
[18:11:34] <djlewis> well, you have your clues. This group is now looking to see your progress
[18:11:47] <joelagnel> krzd, have you read http://elinux.org/Interfacing_with_I2C_Devices
[18:12:48] <djlewis> now you went and did his homework for him ;)
[18:12:58] <krzd> no, thx.
[18:13:07] <krzd> but how to disable serial console
[18:13:24] <djlewis> more a redirect
[18:13:40] <krzd> than how to redirect it
[18:13:50] <djlewis> disable = dont use it :)
[18:14:22] <krzd> than how to make general use of the serial port possible
[18:15:31] <joelagnel> djlewis, never mind, It helps me know what docs are where for my own reference ;)
[18:16:45] <joelagnel> koen gives nice treatment to people who ask how-to questions without googling :P
[18:17:16] <djlewis> that's why I was asking for the rule link
[18:17:36] <vikas_> joelagnel, hi
[18:17:44] <joelagnel> djlewis, www.angstrom-distribution.org, rule 1
[18:17:49] <joelagnel> hello
[18:18:00] <vikas_> i need a help
[18:19:04] <vikas_> actually i am new to embedded linux , and i want to learn embedded linux so how can i move forward
[18:19:59] <djlewis> same rule might apply :)
[18:20:01] <krzd> now i can detect i2c (4 adresses possible). but i get device or resource busy.
[18:20:15] <vikas_> joelagnel, help plz
[18:20:32] <ds2> 26
[18:20:37] <mru> +26
[18:20:57] <krzd> =52
[18:21:03] <mru> wrong
[18:21:25] * djlewis learned by purchasing a beagleboard and asking my nest friend on the web, Google.
[18:21:32] <djlewis> s/nest/best
[18:21:45] <joelagnel> vikas_, Get some ideas from http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[18:22:12] <krzd> djlewis bought a keyboard but could not buy a manual for typing right
[18:24:53] <vikas_> joelagnel, actually i have read book "Building embedded linux" but did not get anything so i want to buy some primary evaluation board for that can u help me
[18:24:57] * djlewis still is no typist after 33 years with a keyboard :P
[18:25:29] <djlewis> vikas_: lots of choices
[18:25:33] <krzd> but how can an unused port be busy
[18:26:09] <vikas_> plz help me with the basic one for which help is easily available on web
[18:28:28] <vikas_> djlewis, help plz
[18:29:04] <joelagnel> vikas_, why not beagleboard?
[18:29:53] <djlewis> joelagnel: he wants a really helpful group support ;)
[18:30:16] <djlewis> which this group is if a person shows they are making a real effort
[18:30:49] <joelagnel> djlewis, yep
[18:30:58] <vikas_> joelagnel, i think its very advanced eval board. will it work for beginners also
[18:31:15] <vikas_> ?
[18:31:53] <djlewis> mostly depends on your goals
[18:33:10] <vikas_> djlewis , my aim is to get basic thing in embedded linux like how to write application , how to port linux like that very basic things
[18:33:27] <djlewis> there are easier boads to interface to with hardware.
[18:33:37] <djlewis> s/boads/boards
[18:34:59] <djlewis> vikas_: linux is already ported so you would be reinventing that wheel :)
[18:35:28] <krzd> ok i2c not working. (was wrong port i tested) anyway, the sensor needs at least 2.3V and BB (xM) has only 1.8? and thats the reason, isn't it? i2cdetect -r 2 is building up very slow in contrast to 1 and 3
[18:35:51] <djlewis> vikas_: have a look at : for a recent intro: http://sakoman.com/
[18:36:16] <vikas_> djlewis : ok
[18:37:14] <djlewis> vikas_: that image shows you a full blown linux running on an omap which BB uses
[18:37:31] <djlewis> krzd: you are coming along nicely :)
[18:37:47] <vikas_> djlewis, ok
[18:38:14] <vikas_> djlewis, what would you recomend i should buy..
[18:38:28] <djlewis> vikas_: Angstrom is much the same
[18:38:43] <krzd> djlewis: thanks ... so i need "voltage transition". and i need to redirect the virtual console to solve my problems, right?
[18:38:51] <krzd> and that is what i should google for, by rule
[18:39:01] <djlewis> I think Angstrom may have come along first??
[18:40:07] <djlewis> krzd: seems like 2.3 might work if it was powered by 1.8, I am not certain.
[18:40:53] <vikas_> djlewis : sir plz recomend me the eval board
[18:41:03] <krzd> but i2cdetect only output -- very slow. if i switch the pins there are --'s coming straight
[18:41:35] <djlewis> krzd: my humble little article: http://elinux.org/index.php?title=BeagleBoard_Trainer_Nunchuk
[18:42:18] <djlewis> krzd: it is using 3.3V translation through the trainer board
[18:42:36] <djlewis> which also provides a second serial port
[18:42:45] <krzd> ok but i don't want to use a trainer board because we don't have any budget left
[18:42:51] <krzd> only a few euros
[18:42:51] * joelagnel (~joel@nat/ti/x-sukamgrehtvfkzay) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[18:44:09] <djlewis> krzd: look at the schematic for the trainer and find the voltage translation you need :)
[18:45:24] <krzd> hmm ok i don't know really much about it but i gonna inform myself
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[18:47:42] <djlewis> krzd: just stay within the BB specs when hooking anything to it, or magic smoke
[18:47:58] <krzd> magic smoke?
[18:48:03] <krzd> ah ok
[18:48:29] <djlewis> yes, silicon emits a particular odor
[18:48:44] <krzd> and i deactivated the serial console so only a little problem left
[18:48:59] <vikas_> djlewis:
[18:49:28] <krzd> thanks for your help
[18:49:49] <djlewis> vikas_: the beagleboards ae good for what you ask'd. As are many others.
[18:50:01] <djlewis> Pandaboard is fastest, I think
[18:50:27] <vikas_> ok thankyou sir
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[18:51:01] <djlewis> vikas_: doing large task like building FF or a kernel is not recommended on a embedded board
[18:51:07] <djlewis> nm
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[18:58:32] * djlewis needs to continue configuring this "newer" computer.
[18:58:56] <emeb> newer than what?
[18:59:04] <mru> the great flood
[18:59:08] <djlewis> lol
[19:00:17] <djlewis> since '06' i have stepped from a AMD 3G to AMD 3G dual to this AMD quad
[19:01:03] <djlewis> customer abandoned, I replaced mb and pwr supply with asus and antec.
[19:01:43] * krzd (6d2e4f5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.46.79.90) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[19:01:48] <djlewis> 2 something G quad with 9GB memory and about a TB of hd's in it
[19:02:00] <djlewis> 8GB ram, oops
[19:02:45] <emeb> that's a munch o' bemory.
[19:03:09] <djlewis> not bad for $80 US dollars out of pocket
[19:03:13] <djlewis> total
[19:04:01] <djlewis> emeb: yeah, the onboard graphics chew a little but it is not missed.
[19:04:19] <djlewis> I dont expect to see swap until I try out OE on it
[19:05:11] <emeb> oe works nicely with lots of cores
[19:05:29] * djlewis was toying with the thought of clustering the duals with this one for OE
[19:05:31] <emeb> probably the only time I've seen fully utilization on my quad
[19:06:07] <djlewis> emeb: yeah, I figured that might be the case :)
[19:06:35] <djlewis> though my FireFox does make the attempt
[19:06:51] <emeb> don't get me started on FF
[19:06:57] <djlewis> Chrome goes unnoticed by the cpu :)
[19:07:49] <djlewis> i'm starting to like chrome for that reason alone
[19:08:16] <djlewis> can we get Chrome for embedded...
[19:09:12] <emeb> Surprised the goog hasn't compiled it for ander-oid
[19:09:38] * emeb waits for someone to say they have.
[19:09:58] * djlewis suspects it is nosy like google
[19:10:17] <djlewis> nosey
[19:11:11] <emeb> all your browsings are belong to us?
[19:11:43] <djlewis> i rarely use a browser on BB but it is fun to impress people with a full os on a tiny board.
[19:12:06] <djlewis> can't with FF
[19:14:28] * djlewis has a dozen computers, 6 full size scanners and as many laserjets, yours for the shipping :)
[19:15:10] <djlewis> time to make a deposit in the office dumpster :)
[19:16:30] <emeb> full-size scanners -> straight to goodwill
[19:16:50] <djlewis> ya think goodwill patrons can sort out scsi?
[19:17:19] <djlewis> well, i'd buy them if I saw them there ;)
[19:20:01] <emeb> our goodwill has a deal with a local electronics recycler - they take all tech stuff, sort out what they can resell
[19:20:11] <emeb> the rest goes to the e-cycler.
[19:21:17] <djlewis> our state redist place is selling laserjets, scanners, pc's and monitors by the palette load now.
[19:21:56] <emeb> no excuses - computers for everyone. Hobos standing in line for old P4 systems. :)
[19:22:14] <djlewis> ok bama
[19:29:24] <CMoH> hey. how come ttyS was renamed to ttyO ?
[19:30:40] <mru> O is round, S is squiggly
[19:30:47] <djlewis> google knows,
[19:31:06] <CMoH> eh, google only replied with patches all over the place :)
[19:33:08] <djlewis> yeah, lots of different answers anyway
[19:33:30] <CMoH> i see - so basically the driver diverged from 8250, which provides ttyS devices
[19:33:35] <CMoH> well, cute
[19:34:37] <CMoH> always thought S comes from serial :)
[19:34:37] <djlewis> take all the answers, avg them out and put a wrapper on the result
[19:35:12] <djlewis> yep, after years of acceptance they go and change things ;P
[19:37:28] <CMoH> good for them :)
[19:37:43] <CMoH> what does the O come from? OMAP?
[19:38:22] <CMoH> which kindof leads to the question where does OMAP come from :D:D
[19:38:26] <CMoH> kidding
[19:38:33] <djlewis> one answer does state it is omap specific
[19:39:19] <adj> the original patch also says that O -> OMAP
[19:39:28] <djlewis> and car manufacturers spend millions for a name of a new product
[19:39:31] <adj> http://ns.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg26281.html
[19:43:13] <CMoH> thanks all
[19:48:25] <djlewis> glad we could be of assistance ;)
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[19:59:16] <djlewis> oh, did I mention a dozen DAT drives
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[20:47:27] <emeb> djlewis: what do you do wif DAT?
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[20:51:52] <djlewis> store them on a shelf :) I use dvd for backup now
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[20:53:04] <djlewis> emeb: have you heard I am an electronics packrat?
[20:54:14] <emeb> heh - it's a common disease in these parts
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[20:59:18] <mru> I recently collected all my stray power supplies in a plastic box
[20:59:23] <mru> there were 9 litres of them
[20:59:37] <mru> not counting the ones in use
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[21:00:21] <prpplague^2> hehe
[21:00:25] * prpplague^2 is now known as prpplague
[21:00:47] <mru> same volume stray power leads
[21:00:48] <prpplague> mru: you aren't a real nerd/geek unless you have 10^23423423 power supplies
[21:01:31] * djlewis has power supplies glaore too
[21:01:35] <djlewis> galore
[21:01:52] * emeb wonders if there's some sort of "development system collector's self-help" group
[21:02:51] <emeb> like AA - DSCA
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[21:26:00] * djlewis loves coding examples that just dont work :P
[21:26:29] <djlewis> learn much more in the debugging process though
[21:26:30] <mru> that's why they are merely examples
[21:26:38] <djlewis> :)
[21:27:10] <djlewis> oh yes, like in textbooks the examples are not nearly what it takes
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[22:04:46] <djlewis> hmm, a simple user backup of old cpu wont help with all the installed compilers
[22:04:54] <djlewis> onto the new cpu
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[23:24:32] <emeb> djlewis: Ping!
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[23:27:03] <djlewis> emeb: pong
[23:27:12] <emeb> you've got a Trainer board, no?
[23:27:32] <djlewis> see amigo
[23:27:41] <emeb> ever use the AVR on it?
[23:27:46] <djlewis> yes
[23:27:56] <emeb> How do you load code into it?
[23:28:16] <djlewis> simple, I used something koen posted. want it?
[23:28:25] <emeb> sure
[23:28:34] <djlewis> lemme look
[23:28:43] <emeb> I assume that goes thru the serial bootloader?
[23:28:54] <djlewis> yes
[23:30:43] <djlewis> emeb: (11:47:33 AM) koen: djlewis1:avrdude -cstk500v1 -b57600 -patmega328p -P/dev/ttyS1 -C /etc/avrdude.conf -U flash:w:mendel.hex
[23:31:01] <emeb> cool
[23:31:04] <emeb> thx
[23:31:11] <djlewis> you find a avr?
[23:31:42] <emeb> I'm working on a new interface board that might use an AVR to handle some I/O
[23:31:52] <emeb> studying the Trainer schematic for clues
[23:31:56] <djlewis> emeb: i'll email you the entire page
[23:32:35] <emeb> ok - send here: ebrombaugh1@cox.net
[23:32:50] <djlewis> emeb: this Pidgin irc has a send file option. will that work?
[23:33:03] <emeb> beats me - give it a try
[23:33:05] <djlewis> does it go to email?
[23:33:55] <emeb> it's doing something...
[23:34:05] <djlewis> no progress on my end yet
[23:34:48] <emeb> opened a little winder, sat there for a while then gave up I guess.
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[23:36:24] <prpplague> emeb: avrgal is easier
[23:36:32] <djlewis> emeb: i emailed it to the add'y ni your info
[23:36:35] <emeb> prpplague: the man himself!
[23:37:01] <djlewis> i dont have the avrgal ex
[23:37:19] <prpplague> takes a whole 0.2 seconds to compile
[23:37:27] <emeb> prpplague: I'll look into it.
[23:37:47] <emeb> prpplague: is it possible to use the ICSP port while the BB is attached to the Trainer?
[23:37:58] <prpplague> emeb: http://www.elinux.org/Avrgal
[23:38:21] <emeb> prpplague: thx
[23:38:37] <djlewis> prpplague: how come it is not in angstrom?
[23:38:38] <prpplague> emeb: yea, you can use the ICSP if you want
[23:38:55] * emeb doesn't have enough experience with AVR to know the little details of programming them
[23:38:59] <prpplague> djlewis: i think koen just hasn't gotten around to adding a recipe
[23:39:08] <djlewis> oh
[23:39:13] <prpplague> emeb: it's darn simple
[23:39:19] <djlewis> emeb: on the trainer it went smooth
[23:39:42] <djlewis> as prpplague: has already added the bootloader
[23:39:46] <emeb> prpplague: the app I'm looking at needs to use the AVR SPI port to the BB, so that makes things a bit more complex
[23:39:50] <prpplague> emeb: you can either use the ISP header, and no bootloader, or you can use the bootloader
[23:40:34] <prpplague> emeb: so the avr will be connected to the bb via the spi interface?
[23:40:39] <prpplague> emeb: instead of the uart?
[23:41:09] <emeb> Yeah. Want to use the UART for something else so was planning for BB <-> AVR via SPI
[23:41:24] <prpplague> emeb: thats doable with no major issues
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[23:41:30] <djlewis> hmm i smell a project
[23:41:37] <emeb> but since the AVR SPI port is also used for ICSP that makes it a bit more complicated.
[23:41:42] <prpplague> emeb: just makes it a little more difficult to program via the bb
[23:42:26] <prpplague> emeb: if you aren't worried about programming via the bb, then it will be easy
[23:43:29] <emeb> prpplague: I suppose it would be possible to run an ICSP session from the BB too, if one controlled the VCC and /RESET pins.
[23:43:37] <prpplague> emeb: yep
[23:43:46] <emeb> Would need a custom programming app tho...
[23:44:06] <prpplague> emeb: the ICSP is design to be "dual use" so there are some things to do to make sure the ICSP operates properly
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[23:44:18] <emeb> prpplague: oh?
[23:44:32] <prpplague> emeb: avrdude or avrgal can be hacked up with a new "dongle" interface for what you need
[23:45:24] <emeb> prpplague: sounds good - I guess those apps have a lot of different dongles possible, so it's just a matter of adding a bit more code for my custom pins
[23:45:33] <prpplague> yea
[23:46:40] <emeb> prpplague: thanks for the ideas. I'll study avrgal source and see what I can make of it.
[23:47:12] <prpplague> emeb: avrgal is a hacked version of avrdude that i created
[23:47:28] <emeb> prpplague: I think I remember when you were working on it.
[23:47:30] <prpplague> emeb: basically removes support for everything but what is needed for the bb to talk to the avr on the trainer
[23:47:52] <emeb> prpplague: avoids confusion, keeps things smaller/simpler
[23:47:59] <prpplague> emeb: http://hackaday.com/2011/06/28/circuit-design-for-multiple-uart-connections/
[23:48:08] <prpplague> emeb: same applies to the spi interface
[23:48:29] <emeb> wire-or I suppose.
[23:49:34] <emeb> prpplague: I'm driving the AVR spi port from a '774 level shifter. Was considering just de-asserting nOE to allow ICSP.
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[23:51:42] <prpplague> emeb: that works too
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