• [00:05:25] * hitlin37_ (3bb14827@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.177.72.39) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
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  • [00:09:24] <jjfs85> anybody there?
  • [00:09:55] <djlewis1> around 155 lurkers
  • [00:10:12] <jjfs85> damn lurkers.
  • [00:10:55] <jjfs85> I think I borked my XM.
  • [00:11:04] <djlewis1> if you have a question ask it someone might answer.
  • [00:11:45] <jjfs85> has anyone encountered:
  • [00:11:56] <jjfs85> Beagle XM Rev A
  • [00:12:04] <jjfs85> Reading boot sector
  • [00:12:12] <jjfs85> Invalid FAT entry
  • [00:12:17] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@hpavc/mazzanet) has joined #beagle
  • [00:12:24] <jjfs85> then hang
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  • [00:12:41] <djlewis1> fix your card, check power
  • [00:13:00] <djlewis1> what power source are you using
  • [00:13:03] <jjfs85> I've used two cards and reformatted them both.
  • [00:13:10] <jjfs85> 5V lab power supply
  • [00:13:17] <jjfs85> I'll check voltage...
  • [00:13:19] <djlewis1> set to what current?
  • [00:13:36] <djlewis1> try 5Vdc @ 2Amps
  • [00:14:50] <djlewis1> and never switch lab power supply controls with a live load like a beagleboard
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  • [00:23:41] <jjfs85> no luck with those suggestions
  • [00:24:03] <jjfs85> I was thinking maybe x-loader's messed up
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  • [00:28:14] <jjfs85> well thanks for your help anyway, dj.
  • [00:28:54] <jjfs85> Does anyone know if the XM's x-loader is in non-volatile memory on-board or if it must always be on the sd card?
  • [00:30:16] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@201.250.150.141) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  • [00:33:16] <bernard_> jjfs85: there is no non-volatile memory on the XM
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  • [00:36:58] <jjfs85> thanks
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  • [01:06:36] <TheLorax> where can I find the sources for the beagleboard kernel?
  • [01:06:46] <TheLorax> (any distro)
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  • [01:07:09] <TheLorax> preferably the upstream developer site
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  • [01:21:00] <mrj10> usually you don't set both current and voltage, you set one or the other and the power supply varies the other based on load
  • [01:21:18] <mrj10> so you'll end up with roughly 550ma of current worst-case on the xM at 5V
  • [01:21:31] <mrj10> well, sometimes it bursts up to 700 or 800
  • [01:22:05] <mrj10> TheLorax: the "official" beagleboard images are from the angstrom distribution
  • [01:22:19] <mrj10> they are built using an embedded toolchain called openembedded
  • [01:22:41] <TheLorax> where is the source code...I've been looking for days!
  • [01:22:47] <TheLorax> for the kernel
  • [01:22:48] <mrj10> you just want the linux kernel?
  • [01:22:55] <djlewis1> I set current for current limiting. if it is not set, perhaps it is at 100ma, then there is not adequate power
  • [01:23:04] <TheLorax> yes, just the kernel, I want ot build it myself
  • [01:23:18] <djlewis1> understanding the current control is useful :)
  • [01:23:21] <mrj10> do you want to build the exact same version that is in the beagleboard validation image?
  • [01:23:43] <TheLorax> mrj10: for now, yes
  • [01:23:54] <TheLorax> validation image = demo image?
  • [01:23:55] <mrj10> oh yeah, you can set a limit to avoid blowing things up
  • [01:24:01] <mrj10> they're different images
  • [01:24:18] <mrj10> validation is command-line only and has test scripts for audio, NEON, etc.
  • [01:24:31] <mrj10> demo has a window manager, mplayer, and a bunch of other userspace stuff
  • [01:24:42] <TheLorax> I mean, validation kernel ?= demo kernel?
  • [01:25:12] <mrj10> i think so, yeah
  • [01:25:25] <mrj10> i believe they're from the linux-omap-psp tree, kernel 2.6.32
  • [01:25:37] <TheLorax> on the kernel hq site?
  • [01:25:49] <TheLorax> or angstrom?
  • [01:25:51] <mrj10> the main kernel trees you'll see for beagleboard are linux-omap, linux-omap-psp, and linux-omap-pm
  • [01:26:02] <mrj10> start here: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#OpenEmbedded
  • [01:26:08] <mrj10> you really want to do this through openembedded
  • [01:27:06] <mrj10> trust me. i tried doing it the way it sounds like you want to do it, and it was very difficult because there are a lot of beagle-specific things in the specific rev of the linux-omap-psp tree they use that cannot be found in the mainline linux tree (yet)
  • [01:27:07] <TheLorax> problem is that it seems to force you to build the whole iamge, not jsut the kernel
  • [01:27:14] <mrj10> nope, doesn't force you
  • [01:27:18] <mrj10> it uses a tool called bitbake
  • [01:27:26] <mrj10> you type "bitbake package"
  • [01:27:36] <mrj10> where package can be "build me a whole image" or "build me vi"
  • [01:28:08] <mrj10> once you have an appropriate local.conf and a ~/.oe/environment script to set the right environment variables, you should just be able to type "bitbake virtual/kernel"
  • [01:28:33] <TheLorax> bitbake inclues compilers or no?
  • [01:28:47] <mrj10> the kernel "package" has a dependency on a gcc-based cross-compiler "package"
  • [01:28:48] <TheLorax> (I have compilers for the beagle anyway)
  • [01:29:01] <TheLorax> ugh, annoying
  • [01:29:04] <mrj10> so it will handle all that for you; i think there is a way to do it with your own pre-existing toolchain, and i tried it for a bit
  • [01:29:26] <mrj10> but found it pretty easy just to trade off a little disk space and just hit "bitbake virtual/kernel" and let it handle it for me
  • [01:29:32] <mrj10> i already had the codesourcery toolchain
  • [01:29:47] <mrj10> which i still use to build little userspace apps on my laptop, which i scp over to the beagleboard
  • [01:30:11] <TheLorax> I think I'll just take a look at the bitbake recipie and try it myself
  • [01:30:14] <mrj10> but for building the kernel and root filesystem, i prefer to let openembedded use a version that lots of people have tested and know to work for the beagleboard
  • [01:30:27] <mrj10> good luck; there's no magic, but there's a lot to it
  • [01:30:40] <TheLorax> so, last dumb question, where is the recipe?
  • [01:30:43] <TheLorax> for the kernel
  • [01:30:51] <mrj10> once you have an openembedded tree
  • [01:30:53] <TheLorax> openembedded?
  • [01:30:56] <TheLorax> nvm
  • [01:30:57] <TheLorax> yeah, thanks
  • [01:30:58] <mrj10> mine is in someplace like:
  • [01:31:13] <mrj10> sources/openembedded/recipes/linux/linux-omap-psp_2.6.32.bb
  • [01:31:21] <TheLorax> thanks...really helpful
  • [01:31:57] <mrj10> no prob man, hopefully it works out. i spent a bunch of time figuring all this stuff out, glad to spare someone some of the pain
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  • [01:33:57] <TheLorax> the ultimate plan is to make a gentoo setup for the beagleboard. I have gentoo installed, but with the angstrom kernel, and I want to tweak the kenel a bit, so it would be nice to have a gentoo ebuild for the kernel instead of a bitbake recipe.
  • [01:34:21] <mrj10> yeah
  • [01:34:33] <mrj10> i don't think the kernel recipe is too involved once you have the cross-compiler
  • [01:34:59] <mrj10> you might be able to steal their defconfig and figure out what git rev they're at and figure it out
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  • [01:35:20] <TheLorax> defconfig? you mean the .config file?
  • [01:35:39] <mrj10> oh, yeah, that's what they call it in the recipe directory
  • [01:35:43] <mrj10> it's just the .config file
  • [01:35:58] <mrj10> and a lot of the linux recipes have a subdirectory with a bunch of patches
  • [01:36:16] <mrj10> i believe the linux-omap-psp has a bunch for like beagleboard pinmuxing settings and so forth
  • [01:36:20] <TheLorax> np, gentoo ebuilds have support for applying tons of patches like that
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  • [01:37:15] <mrj10> i got greedy and wanted to try a new kernel to see if performance or power management was better
  • [01:37:36] <mrj10> and that turns out to be somewhat painful because it lacks the testing and all the patches to make it work on beagleboard, so i have to figure those out myself as i go along
  • [01:38:14] <mrj10> there's a 2.6.36-rc7 recipe in the OE tree; most things build fine, but a bunch of the TI proprietary stuff (dsplink, SGX drivers, ...) break because of recent API changes in the kernel
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  • [03:31:13] <hitlin37> gud morning all
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  • [03:42:07] <mrj10> morning
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  • [03:50:44] <Guest54621> hi everyone
  • [03:51:36] <Guest54621> Is anybody know how to run x.org beyond graphic driver(PVR)? thanks
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  • [04:32:16] <_av500_> gm
  • [04:33:58] <ds2> Hmmmm 5V modules...
  • [04:34:01] <ds2> gm _av500_
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  • [05:39:28] * cwillu blinks
  • [05:41:37] <mrj10> quiet in here
  • [05:41:40] <mrj10> ..too quiet..
  • [05:41:54] <mrj10> everyone must be in #pandaboard :P
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  • [05:52:34] * cwillu waits for his two favourite zippy and ks8851 related developers to appear
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  • [06:56:51] <bernard_> hmm. anybody here ever tried compiling their kernel in Thumb2 mode?
  • [06:57:42] <mrj10> ooh, a brave one
  • [06:57:51] <mrj10> nope, havent tried it yet, sounds fun though
  • [06:58:28] <bernard_> yeah. it seems to have been broken for a while, but i wonder if i'm just doing it wrong.
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  • [06:58:58] <bernard_> (it disables frame pointers, which parts of the arm code seem to depend on)
  • [07:02:18] * bernard_ hacks around it to see what breaks...
  • [07:02:49] <mrj10> ah, gotcha, does thumb2 have a reduced register set with no dedicated $fp?
  • [07:05:26] <mrj10> what kernel version are you using?
  • [07:05:27] <bernard_> you can still access all the registers, but some instructions only accept r0-r7
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  • [07:07:01] <bernard_> it doesn't seem that gcc emits any frame pointer code. maybe it's not in the abi?
  • [07:08:08] <bernard_> using ubuntu's stable omap kernel 2.6.35.7
  • [07:10:56] <mrj10> gotcha, yeah that's definitely new enough for it to be reasonably supported
  • [07:11:42] <mrj10> are you using those scripts the ubuntu guys have up on launchpad?
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  • [07:12:03] <mrj10> i'm forgetting the project name, i dove into it for about a day then gave up for reasons i don't remember
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  • [07:23:33] <bernard_> mrj10: using these: https://code.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/+junk/2.6-stable
  • [07:23:47] <bernard_> the patches to add Thumb2 building support only went in late last year. and they've bitrotted already :(
  • [07:24:36] <mrj10> yeah, that was the one
  • [07:24:42] <mrj10> bummer :(
  • [07:25:05] <mrj10> is it just that people wrote some new inline asm without thumb2 equivalents?
  • [07:30:14] <jacekowski> mru: i have answer from ARM
  • [07:30:28] <jacekowski> mru: it only predicts if branch is taken or not
  • [07:30:57] <jacekowski> mru: The branch prediction scheme on the Cortex-A8 predicts whether a branch will be taken or not. If it is predicted as taken, then it can in some cases also predict the destination of the branch. This is usually only possible for direct (PC relative) branches, or function returns.
  • [07:31:05] <jacekowski> mru: so I was right and you were wrong
  • [07:31:43] <mrj10> really? i thought the A8 had a BTB
  • [07:32:12] <mrj10> well.. actually the two notions are not incompatible
  • [07:32:22] <bernard_> mrj10: thumb2's not the problem. code went in that relied on frame pointers.
  • [07:32:33] <mrj10> gotcha
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  • [07:33:20] <mrj10> the A8 has a BTB, global history buffer, and 8-deep return address stack
  • [07:33:46] <jacekowski> yeah, but predicting on direct branches and stuff is hard
  • [07:33:48] <jacekowski> and pointless
  • [07:33:57] <jacekowski> as that is used ussualy in things like switch statements
  • [07:34:05] <jacekowski> and these are ussualy non predictable
  • [07:35:18] <mrj10> i don't think i agree, not that it's too important
  • [07:35:33] <mrj10> certainly randomly-taken jump tables and such are nigh-unpredictable
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  • [07:36:16] <mrj10> well
  • [07:36:29] <mrj10> depends on how you define a direct branch, i haven't heard the term before
  • [07:37:17] <mrj10> but things like function pointers are usually very predictable
  • [07:37:44] <mrj10> i shouldn't even say that because i agree that having a big predictor isn't a good idea for an ARM
  • [07:38:05] * r1nu- (~remmargor@unaffiliated/r1nu-) Quit (Quit: *.*)
  • [07:38:09] <mrj10> but intel squeezes more perf than you'd think out of predicting hard-to-predict branches
  • [07:38:26] <jacekowski> mrj10: it's amd
  • [07:38:42] <jacekowski> mrj10: intel branch prediction is still not working as good as it should
  • [07:38:57] <mrj10> interesting, i hadn't heard that
  • [07:39:07] <jacekowski> mrj10: not working prediction was main reason of poor performance of pentium 4
  • [07:39:34] <jacekowski> that's why amd was able to make a lot slower in terms of clock speed cpu and have same performance
  • [07:40:15] <jacekowski> because their branch prediction/out of order execution/cache prediction units were much better
  • [07:40:36] <jacekowski> and intel is still behind in that matter
  • [07:40:54] <jacekowski> because they went GHz way
  • [07:41:18] <jacekowski> so penalty on miss isn't as high in terms of time
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  • [07:44:30] <mrj10> you could look at that as poor BP performance, or you could look at it as making yourself too reliant on BP performance by making your pipeline so damn long
  • [07:44:58] <mrj10> intel's BP accuracy could be better than AMD's and still perform worse because mispredictions cost them so much
  • [07:46:22] <mrj10> what is your basis for saying that intel BP is worse than AMD's, say core i7 vs. Phenom II?
  • [07:47:08] <mrj10> anyway, i'm off to bed
  • [07:47:09] <mrj10> night
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  • [07:52:09] <hitlin37> may b someone can come out with BP performance..Intel vs amd..vs ARM
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  • [08:42:24] <cwillu> hitlin37, jacekowski, mru, but you haven't answered the big important question: how do I use this to make firefox fast?
  • [08:43:05] * __av500__ is now known as av500
  • [08:47:07] <mru> cwillu: by using it in fast_memcpy of course
  • [08:47:18] <DaveDavenport> installing pendactyl?
  • [08:48:32] <cwillu> DaveDavenport, you seem to have an odd definition of fast
  • [08:49:02] <cwillu> a firefox extension does not a fast firefox make :p
  • [08:49:37] <jacekowski> mru: have you seen what i pasted while ago?
  • [08:50:40] <jacekowski> i went for AD7606 via SPI + will be communicating with PC via USB ( that's for people i was speaking with yesterday about it )
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  • [08:52:24] <mru> jacekowski: I saw your non-answer
  • [08:52:28] <ksinkar> hello guys
  • [08:53:07] * calculus (~calculus@gentoo/user/calculus) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [08:56:52] <av500> gm
  • [08:57:01] * chrisw957 (~chris@mail.tacticalelectronics.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [08:57:15] <av500> cwillu: make firefox fast? I saw it running on dual A9 and it was not fast...
  • [08:57:47] <cwillu> how about chrome?
  • [08:58:12] <av500> no idea
  • [08:58:26] <av500> I just tried the default ff in ubuntutntutu on omap4
  • [08:58:58] <cwillu> yeah, I'm already mucking with pixman somewhat
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  • [08:59:21] <av500> I doubt that the actuall issue is in the rendering layer
  • [08:59:50] <cwillu> it had a pretty dramatic effect on scrolling performance
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  • [09:02:14] <DaveDavenport> cwillu: cuts out lot of mouse movements, saves time
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  • [09:02:44] <DaveDavenport> cwillu: it is in how you define speed
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  • [09:03:02] * cwillu makes a note to disregard DaveDavenport in the future
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  • [09:04:39] <woglinde> jo
  • [09:04:53] <DaveDavenport> cwillu: anyway I would welcome a fast firefox, but browsers seems to be benchmarked by the javascript performance only (tm)
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  • [09:12:08] <jacekowski> mru: that's answer from ARM stating that it's not predicting the adress
  • [09:12:11] <jacekowski> address*
  • [09:12:56] <cwillu> s/not predicting/not always predicting/ :p
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  • [09:20:05] <woglinde> jo koen
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  • [09:28:49] <mru> "answer from arm" is a little vague... who provided that statement?
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  • [09:29:35] <jacekowski> mru: Martin Weidmann - Applications Engineer
  • [09:29:56] <mru> also, what would be the point of the btb if nothing uses it?
  • [09:29:57] <jacekowski> ... it can in some cases also predict the destination of the branch. This is usually only possible for direct (PC relative) branches, or function returns.
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  • [09:35:37] <azariah> Hello! Does U-Boot 2010.03-dirty work on the beagleboards?
  • [09:35:56] <azariah> On my board it hangs after "I2C: ready"
  • [09:37:01] <woglinde> azariah did you update mlo?
  • [09:38:28] <azariah> I used MLO-beagleboard-1.44+r16+git which was in the beagleboard image directory after building the image
  • [09:41:42] <woglinde> hm
  • [09:41:56] <ksinkar> hello people
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  • [10:40:05] <mru> I just ran some tests, and ldr pc, [addr] is most definitely predicted
  • [10:42:58] * av500 tries to predict lunch
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  • [10:48:41] <woglinde> av500 good luck
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  • [11:03:01] <DaveDavenport> when I set my clock to 720mhz on revc4, I get a nice little backtrace from the kernel each time
  • [11:03:08] <DaveDavenport> but eveyrthing seems to work fine beside
  • [11:03:12] <DaveDavenport> anyway to get that one fixed?
  • [11:03:31] <DaveDavenport> currently on 2.6.32
  • [11:04:05] <av500> and the backtrace being?
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  • [11:07:06] <DaveDavenport> well paste it in 5 minutes..
  • [11:07:24] <DaveDavenport> in the pll_set_rate something function :D (I know pointless)
  • [11:11:26] <DaveDavenport> http://pastebin.ca/1975404
  • [11:12:40] <_koen_1> _av500_: something with tuna probably
  • [11:12:47] <_koen_1> extrapolating from yesterday
  • [11:13:29] <DaveDavenport> no no, you should extrapolate from the laste 3 days, it has a pattern... fish, meat, vega, fish, meat, vega
  • [11:13:48] * kanru (~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  • [11:15:23] <DaveDavenport> av500: any dead thoughts? (beside 42)
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  • [11:26:42] <hitlin37> mru is it possible to use ffmpeg fft in commercial products
  • [11:26:54] <DaveDavenport> hmm silence.
  • [11:29:19] <jannau> _koen_1: the cropped bezels in the beaglewall video on youtube looks great
  • [11:30:03] <mru> hitlin37: if you abide by the license
  • [11:30:13] <mru> IANAL
  • [11:30:36] <hitlin37> hmmm
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  • [11:43:42] <hitlin37> its easily 4 times faster than openmax
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  • [12:10:15] <jkridner|work> good morning all
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  • [12:18:09] <av500> DaveDavenport: sorry, no idea
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  • [12:19:20] <av500> hitlin37: err, what is 4x faster?
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  • [12:21:05] <DaveDavenport> hmm no kernel in my narcissus build
  • [12:21:29] <av500> koen: top middle mon is too dark
  • [12:26:06] <hitlin37> one takes 250ms..opemax takes 1000ms
  • [12:26:37] <woglinde> hitlin and dspbridge?
  • [12:26:43] <hitlin37> i mean 1/4
  • [12:27:04] <hitlin37> dspbridge no idea
  • [12:27:44] <woglinde> I would try it
  • [12:28:26] <hitlin37> i ran the test case inside a for loop for 2000 times
  • [12:28:28] <hrw> koen: can yo upload presentation to elinux.org wiki page?
  • [12:29:18] <av500> hitlin37: openmax is an API
  • [12:29:31] <av500> so what did you compare?
  • [12:29:53] <av500> koen: what is this SE GST licensing craze?
  • [12:30:13] <hitlin37> ya i used the api..input some i and q files
  • [12:30:23] <av500> ???
  • [12:30:43] <hitlin37> omxSP_FFTFwd_CToC_SC32_Sfs (omx_x, omx_f, pFwdSpec_fft, 0 );
  • [12:31:00] <av500> ah, arm omx foo
  • [12:31:14] * av500 lols at the function name
  • [12:33:20] <hitlin37> on panda ...are there two separate neon units
  • [12:33:24] <woglinde> he it's camel case
  • [12:33:34] <woglinde> panda and openMAX?
  • [12:33:36] <woglinde> *sigh*
  • [12:33:59] <av500> woglinde: I like how they rounded the edges of the funtion call
  • [12:34:04] <av500> e.g. Sfs at the end
  • [12:35:15] <woglinde> hm
  • [12:35:20] <woglinde> whats sfs mean
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  • [12:37:20] <hitlin37> im not sure but sfs functions are safe to call from c and there are few assembly function labled in the end as unsafe
  • [12:37:48] <hitlin37> its mentioed in doc those func are unsafe to call from c
  • [12:38:49] <hitlin37> armSP_FFTFwd_CToC_SC32_Radix4_fs_OutOfPlace_unsafe
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  • [12:40:05] <hitlin37> two neon is much better than one neon+dsp
  • [12:40:30] <av500> well, since the A9 is a dual core, yes, there are 2 neon units
  • [12:42:10] <woglinde> av500 not on tecra *g+
  • [12:42:32] <av500> :)
  • [12:42:34] <av500> yes
  • [12:42:34] <woglinde> lol
  • [12:42:35] <hitlin37> once i had my hands on a9 4 core...
  • [12:42:42] <woglinde> function called safe to use
  • [12:42:44] <woglinde> wtf
  • [12:42:52] <woglinde> aeh named
  • [12:43:10] <woglinde> dual not normaly means speed up
  • [12:43:19] <woglinde> depends on programming
  • [12:43:20] <av500> not for single threaded tasks :)
  • [12:44:20] <hitlin37> why..i thought it will b shared between two neon units...u mean..separate threads on separate units
  • [12:46:16] * ksinkar (~ksinkar@static-mum-59.181.108.105.mtnl.net.in) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [12:46:27] <woglinde> dont forget memsynchro
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  • [12:49:01] <hitlin37> i will read about smp
  • [12:50:22] <woglinde> read amdahls law
  • [12:50:25] <woglinde> *g*
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  • [13:14:11] <jannau> av500: you've seen http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2010/10/27#20101027-elce2010_st_ericsson_gstreamer_android
  • [13:14:25] <av500> jannau: yes
  • [13:14:28] <av500> thats why I ask
  • [13:16:13] <woglinde> uh
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  • [13:16:17] <woglinde> let me see
  • [13:16:25] <woglinde> whas this the big case
  • [13:16:33] <woglinde> harald was talking about
  • [13:16:46] <av500> yes
  • [13:16:54] <av500> but he has few details
  • [13:17:03] <jannau> av500: it looks like SE has a propriety GStreamer-OpenCore wrapper
  • [13:17:12] <av500> as in closed source?
  • [13:17:21] <woglinde> ah no
  • [13:17:39] <woglinde> no its not the big case
  • [13:17:46] <woglinde> something new
  • [13:17:46] <jannau> woglinde: no, I don't think it is the mysterious case Harald mentioned
  • [13:17:54] <woglinde> yupp
  • [13:17:57] <av500> jannau: open src or closed?
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  • [13:18:19] <av500> he says binary only
  • [13:18:19] <woglinde> av500 closed
  • [13:18:23] <av500> right
  • [13:18:39] <jannau> av500: I would guess customers will be able to see the code
  • [13:18:45] <av500> sure
  • [13:18:51] <av500> still I fail to see the problem
  • [13:18:55] <jannau> but not redistribute it
  • [13:19:04] <av500> se does not publish its android source code
  • [13:19:06] <woglinde> depends
  • [13:19:22] <av500> so this adds one tiny unpublished blob to it
  • [13:19:22] <woglinde> jannau you have the exact license terms?
  • [13:19:36] <av500> still all of android is binary only from SE
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  • [13:25:25] <jannau> err, not SE but ST-Ericsson
  • [13:25:35] <av500> right
  • [13:27:13] <jannau> http://www.embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc_europe10/sessions.html#Gaignard
  • [13:27:28] <jannau> doesn't contain any info though
  • [13:28:30] <av500> they usually publish the slides later
  • [13:29:02] <jannau> and videos
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  • [14:15:26] <yoyo> is anyone active?
  • [14:15:47] * woglinde sleeps
  • [14:15:49] * av500 is a passive component
  • [14:16:01] <yoyo> drops a pen
  • [14:16:19] * jannau hears nothing
  • [14:16:20] <woglinde> penny?
  • [14:16:22] * dm8tbr scoops up the pen and throws it in the trash
  • [14:16:38] <yoyo> you guessed it, you win the prize
  • [14:17:05] <yoyo> quick question, was boot rom ever published?
  • [14:17:19] <av500> no
  • [14:17:22] <yoyo> ok
  • [14:17:38] * thaytan (~jan@217.206.93.210) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [14:17:43] <av500> actually, some ppl claimed to have dumped it
  • [14:18:04] <topfs2> good to see that dm8tbr is cleaning the room, some people are just so untidy
  • [14:18:07] <yoyo> their probably is a way, I havent read docs
  • [14:18:09] * topfs2 so bored its not even fun
  • [14:18:15] <topfs2> damn school work
  • [14:19:09] <woglinde> topfs2 whats the subject?
  • [14:19:10] * dm8tbr is bored beyond belief at his temp job
  • [14:19:13] <yoyo> its BGA though, so if it cant be done with pin protocol you need to reflow
  • [14:19:17] <dm8tbr> thank god the real thing is coming up
  • [14:19:23] <yoyo> without I mean
  • [14:19:24] <topfs2> woglinde, atm its introduction to artificial intelligence
  • [14:19:26] <yoyo> english...
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  • [14:20:07] <av500> yoyo: bga?
  • [14:20:11] <topfs2> dm8tbr, I'm currently modeling belief networks, I can model what the probability is that you are bored if you wish....
  • [14:20:16] <av500> the rom is not "pinned out"
  • [14:20:18] <woglinde> topfs2 hehe I didnt took this course
  • [14:20:22] <yoyo> ball grid array soldered
  • [14:20:34] <av500> topfs2: "belief networks" is like church franchises?
  • [14:20:44] <topfs2> woglinde, rather interesting course actually, basically algo on steriods :)
  • [14:20:45] <dm8tbr> topfs2: no need to it approaches 1
  • [14:20:47] <yoyo> everything is under and hard to realign without stencil
  • [14:20:54] <av500> yoyo: what for?
  • [14:21:02] <topfs2> av500, hehehe
  • [14:21:03] <av500> yoyo: the rom is not "pinned out"
  • [14:21:09] <woglinde> topfs2 I thought neuroal network was the answer to it all
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  • [14:21:17] <yoyo> dumping, I dont think you can even address the mapped rom
  • [14:21:26] <dm8tbr> mmmm neurotic networks
  • [14:21:29] <av500> you sure cant from outside
  • [14:21:40] <topfs2> woglinde, it is if your after accuracy, it takes loooooots of data and time though. most of research stuff I guess its were its usable though
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  • [14:21:56] <yoyo> it uses that ARM security bit, or is it controlled through pin debugging?
  • [14:22:02] <topfs2> but for simpler tasks like spam filters and such you can use simpler algo's which essentially does the same but with less accuracy
  • [14:22:42] <woglinde> topfs2 sure
  • [14:22:47] <woglinde> thats what its all about
  • [14:22:58] <woglinde> if the accuracy is good enough
  • [14:22:59] <av500> topfs2: from what I learned in real world usage, neural nets give you the same answer as "thinking about the problem"
  • [14:23:08] <av500> it just takes longer :)
  • [14:23:14] <woglinde> av500 yes yes
  • [14:23:50] <yoyo> who uses neural nets besides game dev and biologists?
  • [14:24:05] <woglinde> robo soccers
  • [14:24:06] <topfs2> hehe av500 yeah thats what our prof said aswell, which is why its only used in research, and mostly in research about how to make them better :)
  • [14:24:26] <topfs2> yoyo, does games even use it? thought they just used simpler algos?
  • [14:24:47] <yoyo> i think its used in some current templated A.I.
  • [14:24:48] <topfs2> and robo soccers is the best game ever :)
  • [14:25:10] <woglinde> and I read about a wifi position system
  • [14:25:25] * hrw|afk is now known as hrw|uds
  • [14:25:26] <yoyo> like where NPCs are walking pathings and their is physical and social interaction
  • [14:26:02] <yoyo> distributed reaction maybe
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  • [14:28:28] <yoyo> rom gets mapped on omap 3530 just like other archs, but it is partition blocked or self-protected through the security flag on MMU
  • [14:28:45] <yoyo> i just wanted to see it
  • [14:29:00] <av500> did you try to dump the rom?
  • [14:29:08] <topfs2> Need to read through some game developments docs after this course, haven't really checked through a.i in games since I first started programming, then I just tried path finding stuff
  • [14:29:19] <topfs2> might be that its used way more than I know :)
  • [14:29:33] <yoyo> no, i dont see any ops for trying it, and its BGA so OCD is a hasle
  • [14:30:05] <yoyo> opcodes and vectors for security stuff goes to vendor devs only i guess
  • [14:30:40] <yoyo> who knows
  • [14:31:30] <yoyo> its at base of memory though, you just can read or write to it
  • [14:31:36] <yoyo> cant
  • [14:32:42] <yoyo> how do we play playstation 3 games on the beagleboard? I bought one cause someone said it was a game console?
  • [14:33:00] <av500> lol
  • [14:33:25] <dm8tbr> is it troll-o-clock again?
  • [14:33:32] <mru> well, there is the psp...
  • [14:33:52] <topfs2> is the psp the same gpu and such as the beagle?
  • [14:33:55] <yoyo> yeah just RCE all the poorly done encryption and port the code
  • [14:34:03] <mru> topfs2: not by far
  • [14:35:00] <yoyo> make a inline opcode VM
  • [14:35:01] <topfs2> looks like it supports some stuff not even in beagle yeah
  • [14:35:31] <yoyo> ahhh this is easy, check back in the morning, itll load and play any game by then
  • [14:35:53] <mrj10> anyone tried to run a kernel newer than 2.6.32 on the BB xM?
  • [14:36:05] <mrj10> having trouble getting display to work, everything else is no problem
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  • [14:36:25] <yoyo> who manages the drivers? they have to answer to this
  • [14:37:02] <topfs2> if they were opensource we'd have ps3 graphics already!
  • [14:37:08] <yoyo> either a peek didnt peek or a poke didnt poke, and needs fixed
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  • [14:38:04] <yoyo> nobody knows this but 3530 has a secret mode that switches it to 25GFLOP SIMD mode
  • [14:38:08] <Sog> Does any one suggest touch screen with LCM module for Beagleboard xM ?
  • [14:38:24] <Sog> I would like buy some for my project.
  • [14:39:31] <yoyo> I see USB 5 wire 12 inch LCD somewhere once for like 200 bucks
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  • [14:40:08] <Sog> yoyo, but if I use USB. Can I still have overlay feature ?
  • [14:40:16] <yoyo> not sure
  • [14:40:35] <yoyo> probably take changing some frame buffer code, so probably not
  • [14:41:01] <yoyo> ??( cyclops no like
  • [14:42:10] <Sog> I am not sure the overylay feature is depend on H/W.
  • [14:42:11] <yoyo> search for 5 wire lcd, one with a linux supported VGA kit or integrated supported controller
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  • [14:43:07] <Sog> ok, let'me try.
  • [14:43:37] <yoyo> im really clueless, I just came here cause I was intrigued about seeing the bootrom code and couldnt access it from memory
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  • [14:44:18] <yoyo> i did see some once though, good deal at 200 bucks
  • [14:44:53] <yoyo> wasnt wholesale either, ill look for the site
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  • [14:50:18] <yoyo> 5 wire open frame lcd seems to yield the best results, couldnt find that site though. The USB controllers had linux drivers even
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  • [14:51:22] <chrisw957> I'm booting from mmc0, why would I get udev settle timeouts? The queue has 400 events from mmcblk0p1 and mmcblk0p2.
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  • [14:53:40] <hitlin37> important thing to note is after adding some hand writtten assembly and no auto vectorization..openmax api's can be as fast as ffmpeg one
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  • [14:54:33] <av500> hitlin37: so hand written assembly can be as fast as hand writtten assembly?
  • [14:54:46] <hitlin37> i did this for few signal processing api's not all
  • [14:54:47] <mru> depends on which hands
  • [14:54:57] <topfs2> Is there any way to hook up ffmpeg to openmax?
  • [14:55:15] <topfs2> or there is no option to add multiple decoders? (haven't checked through openmax to much)
  • [14:55:27] <av500> topfs2: the issue is that we are all talking about a different meaning of openmax
  • [14:55:45] <av500> hitlin37 uses the arm omx low level lib
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  • [14:55:47] <av500> not codecs
  • [14:55:50] <topfs2> oh :D
  • [14:56:16] <hitlin37> i used whats available on arm website
  • [14:56:58] <hitlin37> where's low level lib
  • [14:57:01] <topfs2> at any rate, my question remains. would have been rather nice to hook up ffmpeg to custom android versions to get support for all codecs )
  • [14:57:44] <mru> eh what?
  • [14:57:51] <mru> android supports, like, no codecs
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  • [14:58:30] <topfs2> yeah my point, they use openmax afaik for the support
  • [14:58:42] <topfs2> would have been nice to have a software fallback in openmax (like with mesa and opengl)
  • [14:58:56] <topfs2> it might exist, I am way uneducated in it to tell
  • [15:00:16] <hitlin37> don't know the performance of ap vp..i used sp
  • [15:00:56] <av500> topfs2: sw fallback is included in android
  • [15:00:57] <woglinde> android has a uniqe videoplayer?
  • [15:01:02] <av500> unique?
  • [15:01:23] <woglinde> the ac100 has a toshiba player
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  • [15:01:32] <woglinde> which records in 3gp container
  • [15:01:34] <topfs2> av500, yeah but its handled outside openmax iirc?
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  • [15:01:57] <topfs2> i.e. in the actual player?
  • [15:02:03] <av500> ???
  • [15:02:15] <av500> gimme a few secs, need to finish a conf call
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  • [15:02:34] <topfs2> np, there is a big probability that I'm wrong at any rate
  • [15:02:45] <topfs2> will check through sources though (remember seeing it in cyanogenmods sources)
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  • [15:04:22] <av500> in android, there is one "system" video player
  • [15:04:31] <av500> the "videoView"
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  • [15:04:42] <av500> to which you give a url and it plays it
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  • [15:07:33] <woglinde> as I said thoshiba has its own player for the webcamera
  • [15:08:00] <woglinde> maybee they are using the videoView
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  • [15:09:51] <topfs2> av500, yeah but were is the software fallback? is it in androids mediaplayer or in openmax?
  • [15:10:07] <av500> topfs2: if you compile stock android, it uses the stock sw codecs
  • [15:11:06] <topfs2> so in android then I guess
  • [15:11:18] <topfs2> not that it matters really
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  • [15:11:23] <av500> its part of the build process
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  • [15:12:50] <topfs2> think its me looking at openmax wrong, I see it as gstreamer or something equivivalent
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  • [15:13:29] <av500> topfs2: no, its not like gst
  • [15:13:35] <av500> its a codec api
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  • [15:13:59] <av500> a very very cleverly obfuscated way to call init(), decode() and close()
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  • [15:14:47] <topfs2> sure, I know that. bad example with comparing with gstreamer when I think of it
  • [15:14:55] <alkopop79> trying to build an image for angstrom with OE bitbake but get an error: NameError: global name 'msg' is not defined
  • [15:15:00] <topfs2> just the decodebin of gstreamer its more proper
  • [15:15:07] <topfs2> not even that since its doing more
  • [15:15:08] <topfs2> nvm :)
  • [15:15:37] <av500> there is OMX AL, IL and DL
  • [15:15:46] <av500> DL is some alghoritms
  • [15:15:49] <av500> IL is codecs
  • [15:16:01] <av500> AL is more like gst
  • [15:16:12] <av500> http://www.khronos.org/openmax/
  • [15:16:22] <topfs2> aha, so its me thinking wrong then
  • [15:16:38] <topfs2> haven't looked to much at it yet tbh
  • [15:16:57] <topfs2> will need to do that as soon as my serial cable arrives so I can tryout the panda
  • [15:18:57] <alkopop79> any ideas?
  • [15:19:23] <woglinde> alkopop oepath not set
  • [15:19:29] <woglinde> read the oe manual
  • [15:19:45] <alkopop79> cool
  • [15:19:49] <alkopop79> thx
  • [15:20:24] <woglinde> sure its cool
  • [15:20:30] <woglinde> I am using oe still every day
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  • [15:22:53] <alkopop79> would love to use it 2 :D
  • [15:23:05] <alkopop79> thanks anyway
  • [15:25:42] <djlewis_> gm
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  • [15:28:40] <djlewis_> ooh, i want some of that $14.8 million ;)
  • [15:29:11] <av500> err?
  • [15:29:20] <av500> djlewis_: you sure you are awake?
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  • [15:31:58] <djlewis_> av500: its spam in our mail list
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  • [16:46:32] <siegen> Hi! Someone knows could help me how to enable network between usb OTG and the my PC through eth??
  • [16:46:33] <siegen> :s
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  • [17:04:19] <Jefro> siegen I think you are talking about USBnet - a bridge between the ethernet and usb subsystems
  • [17:04:33] <siegen> yes
  • [17:04:50] <siegen> sorry i explained not so god
  • [17:04:55] <siegen> good
  • [17:04:56] <Jefro> no worries :)
  • [17:05:06] <Jefro> here are a few places to look: http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/msg/de07fba33cf74f8e?pli=1
  • [17:05:14] <Jefro> step 1 on this page: http://elinux.org/Mount_BeagleBoard_Root_Filesystem_over_NFS_via_USB
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  • [17:06:00] <Jefro> I'm working on this same issue this week as well & will commiserate after this meeting :)
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  • [17:13:38] <GatorBoz> I just downloaded the TI DevKit 2, and Froyo is running very nicely on my Beagle xM
  • [17:17:07] <GatorBoz> ls
  • [17:17:09] <GatorBoz> oops
  • [17:20:10] <Jefro> GatorBoz - awesome, I was just going to do that
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  • [17:45:16] <GatorBoz> Jefro: I give the v2 TI devkit very high marks. Very easy to use, very concise directions...
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  • [17:56:00] <Jefro> GatorBoz - excellent news. rowboat has come a long way since 1.5
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  • [17:56:50] <GatorBoz> jefro: what I liked best about the devkit 2.0 is all the tools, instructions, images and sources are all located in one easy to use location
  • [17:57:50] <GatorBoz> jefro: no more needing to work with git, installing the cross compilers, etc. A huge simple plus also is the mmc card script. I was doing it by hand which was fine, but a script was much more fun
  • [17:58:21] <DesktopMa> no pin compatability between omap 3 and 4 I guess?
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  • [17:58:47] <Jefro> GatorBoz This is all very good to know, as we are working on an education initiative related to the beagleboard and your experience shows that fit & finish really helps
  • [17:59:31] <Jefro> DesktopMa there is some, I believe. You might bring this up on #pandaboard, where they discuss it fairly frequently. not a lot of folks here are likely to know much about omap4
  • [17:59:41] <DesktopMa> ah right
  • [17:59:51] <DesktopMa> thanks
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  • [18:09:56] <GatorBoz> jefro you will always have the advanced developers be able to sort out the new technology and get it working, but if you truly want market share, having a well-polished easy to use kit really gets those that are new to the domain in the door much easier. I'm done now :)
  • [18:14:35] <Jefro> GatorBoz - well said. If you'd like to say it again, please feel free to join us on Tuesday mornings to discuss :)
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  • [18:15:04] <Jefro> also on the regular mailing list - look for text "Education" or "BLEP" (BeagleBoard Linux Education Project)
  • [18:15:36] <GatorBoz> jefro: sure, what/when/where for Tuesday AMs?
  • [18:20:26] <Jefro> http://beagleboard.org/linux_education - right now it is tues at 10:30am CT (8:30am PT, 11:30am ET)
  • [18:20:35] <Jefro> the time may change to accommodate those who want to come
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  • [18:34:52] <GatorBoz> jefro: great, thanks it is now on my calendar
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  • [19:17:03] <Jefro> anyone around who wants to help diagnose a boot issue with the latest angstrom uImage?
  • [19:17:44] <mrj10> i can help for a bit, whats up?
  • [19:18:40] <Jefro> thanks - take a look at this, from a c4 boot: http://pastebin.com/Vmj15SGx
  • [19:19:07] <Jefro> the end error is a sync panic, which normally means that the kernel simply can't mount the 2nd partition
  • [19:19:45] <Jefro> however, at line 265 it shows the rootfs successfully mounting, then throws an exception (oops 5 PREEMPT)
  • [19:20:13] <Jefro> which doesn't sound to me like an issue that could be addressed by changing bootargs.
  • [19:20:18] <mrj10> yeah, looks to be while it's freeing the init memory
  • [19:21:10] <Jefro> does that look like possibly a bad kernel build? the bootloaders are brand new.
  • [19:23:14] <_av500_> Jefro: :)
  • [19:23:19] <_av500_> you are powering from usb?
  • [19:24:18] <mrj10> yeah, you're segfaulting in the usb interrupt handler
  • [19:24:29] <_av500_> which is a know bug
  • [19:24:30] <Jefro> hi _av500_! not sure - this is a rev C board that siegen is trying to get up and running
  • [19:24:42] <_av500_> still, its the famous musb crash on boot
  • [19:24:48] <_av500_> 1) power from dcin
  • [19:24:53] <Jefro> odd, I haven't encountered it before
  • [19:24:55] <mrj10> i read somewhere that you need to boot it from 5V for sure the first time, then after that it *could* work from USB
  • [19:24:56] <Jefro> even on a rev C?
  • [19:25:06] <mrj10> i only have an xM
  • [19:25:07] <_av500_> yes
  • [19:25:12] <_av500_> rev c too
  • [19:25:17] <_av500_> its since the new kernel
  • [19:25:18] <siegen> so looks like it needs more power booting
  • [19:25:19] <_av500_> .32 or so
  • [19:25:31] <_av500_> siegen: no, thats another bug actually :=
  • [19:25:38] <_av500_> Jefro: read the readme on the bb demo images
  • [19:25:50] <Jefro> what? read the documentation? are you mad?
  • [19:26:12] <_av500_> Jefro: from your mouth :=
  • [19:26:14] <_av500_> :)
  • [19:26:41] <Jefro> (siegen - this is particularly painful for me because I am a technical writer and I always pester people to read the documentation)
  • [19:27:05] <_av500_> Jefro: MV now has docs? :)
  • [19:27:50] <Jefro> oh yes. 2 or 3 of them!
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  • [19:28:06] <Jefro> actually we have a very large docset, it just isn't publicly available
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  • [19:28:50] <_av500_> one would think there is nothing left in 2.6.10 to document :)
  • [19:29:15] <Jefro> ouch!
  • [19:29:40] <mrj10> has anyone built a recent demo image (which includes X11 etc.) using openembedded? where recent == 2.6.32 kernel
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  • [19:30:44] <Jefro> the one on the angstrom site is 2.6.32 and, given that koen built it, was almost certainly built using openembedded.
  • [19:31:19] <mrj10> yeah, i meant more than 1 person :P
  • [19:31:34] <Jefro> hehehehe
  • [19:31:50] <mrj10> the validation image is a piece of cake, but i haven't gotten a gui to work on the demo image ever
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  • [19:32:19] <Jefro> hmm. I think the kernel is the same between validation image & demo image, just the rootfs is different.
  • [19:32:27] <mrj10> part of it may be that i got greedy and tried to integrate the 2.6.36-rc7 kernel
  • [19:32:57] <mrj10> yeah, same kernel, from the linux-omap-psp tree. i tried to use one from the linux-omap tree since it is more up to date, but i haven't gotten DVI output to work
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  • [19:33:38] <mrj10> and not sure how to debug it, there are a couple bootargs you can pass to make DSS2 and omapfb dump debug messages, but it's just a whole can of worms i don't have any experience with
  • [19:33:56] <ds2> Morning
  • [19:34:10] <mrj10> morning
  • [19:34:23] <Jefro> mrj10 sounds fun, but waaay outside my experience. :) I only stand on the shoulders of others.
  • [19:34:25] <Jefro> hi ds2
  • [19:35:03] <ds2> is that L-O kernel known to work right with other boards like Zoom/SDP?
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  • [19:36:39] <mrj10> i'm not sure what testing has been done with 2.6.36, it's pretty new
  • [19:44:58] <ds2> oh... try it on another then :P
  • [19:46:08] * CruNcher (~luls_lol@dslb-088-068-133-222.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit ()
  • [19:46:10] <mrj10> thats the plan
  • [19:46:12] <jonpry> i worked on running a newer .35 kernel on a different arm board. imho mainline doesn't support the various arm mach types very well
  • [19:46:42] <mrj10> well, ubuntu uses 2.6.36, but i'm not sure if i want to bring in all their stuff
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  • [19:47:14] <jonpry> arm ubuntu?
  • [19:47:38] <mrj10> yup
  • [19:48:09] <jonpry> what mach?
  • [19:48:28] * kevinsc (~a0214685@nat/ti/x-aqbscewiievleexn) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [19:52:32] <mrj10> ?
  • [19:53:23] <mrj10> https://code.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/+junk/2.6.36-devel
  • [19:59:18] <ds2> I wish they stayled with the odd/even release thing... 2.6 stable, 2.7 devel, etc. :/
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  • [20:01:54] <jonpry> i mean the ubuntu arm kernel probably only works on a couple of different machine types
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  • [20:08:37] <mrj10> oh
  • [20:08:43] <mrj10> yeah thats probably true
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  • [20:17:38] <Jefro> another question for the group - garbage characters on the console after the kernel successfully boots to userland. Is this always caused by the cpuidle issue, as I thought Angstrom no longer has cpuidle enabled?
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  • [20:25:09] <siegen_> Jefro i reboot the board and now the prompt of armstrong shows correctly
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  • [20:32:54] <tharvey> anyone using gstreamer-ti and omapdmaifbsink or TIDmaiVideoSink effectively? I can get omapdmaifbsink to work for videotestsrc but not a decoded source and I can't get TIDmaiVideoSink to work at all
  • [20:37:24] * krtaylor (~krtaylor@72.183.125.181) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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  • [20:56:28] <Bhargav_Patel> \nic Beagle
  • [20:56:34] <Bhargav_Patel> \nick Beagle
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  • [20:57:40] <mrj10> anyone else get 3 alignment traps when they boot the demo image on an xM? i found the patch series that does automatic fixup of the alignment traps and emits a warning instead of puking, but i haven't figured out how to figure out what part of the code it's happening in based on the PC it lists
  • [20:58:00] <Beagle> does anyone know where to get a simple hello-world Codec engine example?
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  • [21:08:23] <djlewis_> "but i haven't figured out how to figure out". Happens to me all the time :)
  • [21:08:55] <mrj10> yeah
  • [21:09:03] <mrj10> at least i have figured out how to figure out how to figure out
  • [21:09:12] <mrj10> i'm only in 2 levels of ineptitude now
  • [21:09:17] <djlewis_> figures
  • [21:09:54] <djlewis_> i call them my "slept since then" moments and they are far to many and too often :P
  • [21:10:22] <djlewis_> and I dont sleep all that much
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  • [22:01:47] <rsalveti> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UOASE/ in case anyone is interested in joining the ubuntu arm team
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  • [22:21:41] <_av500_> back
  • [22:21:47] <djlewis_> front
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  • [23:01:59] <djlewis_> later
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  • [23:59:40] <mrj10> this is a weird question, but has anyone ever booted up a window manager (e.g. gnome, enlightenment) and found the icons to display fine, but all the text is little black rectangles?
  • [23:59:49] <mrj10> i imagine it's a problem with some text rendering or font library, but i'm not an expert