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  • [01:02:10] <PythonPup> Howdy. I pretty well know what the beagle board does. I was talking to a member of my local UNIX group and I suggested the board to him. He wants something more than a controller, but less than a computer. He asked me what the main competitors to the beagle board would be and I could not think of anything close. Can someone here suggest such a board?
  • [01:02:37] <emeb> depends on what you mean by 'competitor'
  • [01:02:49] <emeb> what features are important?
  • [01:02:54] <ds2> hawkboard, leopardboard? :D
  • [01:03:02] <emeb> mini2440?
  • [01:07:35] <PythonPup> He was looking for something to be used kind of like an Arduino. He wanted to have a number of IO pins. He wanted more program space and maybe a faster processor. He was not sure he needed faster, but 4k of program space was not enough.
  • [01:08:02] <PythonPup> I'll take the names you gave and google for some details to send. Thank you.
  • [01:10:12] <PythonPup> He is into process control and I expect that is what he wants to use it for. He said he mainly wants some experience with less expensive products. I told him the beagle board would likely be a good start.
  • [01:16:22] <ds2> if you want an arduino, I suggest looking for vacuum tubes
  • [01:17:21] <PythonPup> Do you have a good way to interface an Arduino with vacuum tubes? I have some nixie tubes.
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  • [01:20:41] <ds2> yes, use the Arduino as power ballast
  • [01:22:51] <PythonPup> I am not sure how that would work.
  • [01:23:52] <PythonPup> It is probably too off-topic, anyway.
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  • [05:34:33] <new2bb> hello all:)
  • [05:35:14] <av500> gm
  • [05:36:52] <new2bb> good morning av500 :)
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  • [05:48:11] <new2bb> What is the difference between dspbridge and dsplink (in terms of capabilties), which one can avail full usage of DSP efficiently? i knw little bit from the google, that dsplink is slimmer version of dspbridge and is integrated in open embedded? if some one can eloborate more on the same, will be helpful?
  • [05:49:42] * kmargar is now known as markos_
  • [05:50:06] <av500> new2bb: both
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  • [05:50:43] <av500> new2bb: on low leve lside, both link and bridge offer about the same
  • [05:51:11] <av500> bridge has the advantage that i can use the DSP MMU for user space buffers so you do not need CMEM
  • [05:51:46] <av500> but, if you do video decoding, you might need CMEM anyway as the DSS needs contigous memory to display
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  • [05:52:32] <av500> then, on top of LINK there is CodecEngine which hides all the low level link plumbing and allows you to concentrate on your DSP alhorithm
  • [05:53:00] <av500> it works pretty well for "codec" type of alghorithm where you have init(), process() and exit() calls
  • [05:53:12] <av500> so anything block based is covered
  • [05:56:45] <new2bb> yes, my need is for video codecs algo, so its enough to have dsplink module meaning no need to have dspbridge installed on BB, correct me if i m wrong in understanding? Is there any test app to test the communication b/w A8 and DSP?
  • [05:58:48] <av500> its either bridge or link, not both
  • [05:58:56] <av500> i recommend you use link and CodecEngine
  • [05:59:24] <av500> there are codec engine examples like video_copy which is an "empty" codec that just copies input to output
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  • [06:02:30] <new2bb> Thanks av500, i will check that,
  • [06:10:50] <ddd> hey, I am taking a look of Codec engine xDAIS, I can not find any files inside, like "ldecode.c" or "dct.c" and so on, how does it deal with the video compression? thanks
  • [06:15:57] <av500> what are you looking at?
  • [06:17:17] <ddd> inside the package of ce
  • [06:19:10] <av500> codec engine is a framework to run codecs, it does not contain any actualy codecs itself
  • [06:19:31] <av500> if you have an XDAIS compliant codec, you can "plug" it into codec engine
  • [06:20:58] <ddd> ok, i c. is that the mainstream for doing video coding?
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  • [06:22:59] <av500> mainstream?
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  • [06:24:28] <ddd> do most of companies use this methodology to do video coding?
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  • [06:24:54] <av500> ddd: well, I think there is like a 50/50 split between link and bridge
  • [06:25:12] <av500> nokia and moto use bridge
  • [06:25:25] <av500> consumer electronics companies use more link
  • [06:25:39] <av500> but in both cases the actual codecs are the same XDAIS etc..
  • [06:25:52] <av500> so, if your interest is codec development, pick either one
  • [06:26:02] <av500> and I think that link/CE is easier to start with
  • [06:26:30] <ddd> thanks, av500, means if using dsplink, you must use CE xDAIS?
  • [06:26:47] <av500> no
  • [06:26:54] <ddd> or it is the easiest way to use dsplink
  • [06:27:01] <av500> you can use link standalone, this is like using bridge standalone
  • [06:27:10] <av500> but you can use CE on top of link
  • [06:27:26] <av500> which makes it easier on the gpp side to call your codec
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  • [06:27:51] <av500> ppoudel: hi
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  • [06:28:04] <ppoudel> hi
  • [06:28:09] <av500> ddd: have you looked at ppoudel's work?
  • [06:28:24] <ddd> thanks, av500, no, yet, where
  • [06:28:38] <av500> ppoudel: ^^^^^^^^
  • [06:29:11] <ppoudel> av500: I was working for bb recipie. Do you have any idea what variable is used to define usr/lib?
  • [06:29:20] <av500> ppoudel: you are the new link/CE expert now, you need to stay in this channel all the time ;)
  • [06:29:35] <av500> ppoudel: I have no idea about recipes
  • [06:29:44] <ppoudel> I am most of the time :)
  • [06:29:58] <av500> can you paste the url to your stuff?
  • [06:30:13] <ddd> av500, so using CE won't affect the video coding performance comparing to use standlone dsplink, right?
  • [06:30:22] <ppoudel> http://code.google.com/p/opencv-dsp-acceleration/
  • [06:30:36] <ddd> thank you ppoudel, nice to meet you here,
  • [06:30:54] <ppoudel> nice to meet u too ddd
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  • [06:31:57] <av500> ddd: no
  • [06:32:04] <ddd> thanks av500 introduce you to me, yeah, he mentioned the url to me before, i will take a deep look. it is on CE/link, right?
  • [06:32:28] <ppoudel> ddd: yes
  • [06:32:29] <ddd> av500, then what is the conclusion?
  • [06:32:33] * cwillu (~cwillu@cwillu.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [06:32:44] <av500> use dsplink and CE...
  • [06:34:15] <ddd> yeah, it is what i mean, CE just framework, can not do coding thing, need add dsplink for dsp side to improve performance
  • [06:34:52] <av500> ddd: you need to add an actual codec :)
  • [06:35:02] <av500> CE lets your run codecs on gpp or dsp
  • [06:35:13] <av500> and for dsp side codecs, yes you need dsplink
  • [06:35:43] <ddd> yeah, right,
  • [06:35:53] <_koen_> ppoudel: /usr/lib is ${libdir}
  • [06:36:10] <ppoudel> thanks _koen_.
  • [06:36:13] <_koen_> ppoudel: but it you're in the compile step, you want ${STAGING_LIBDIR}
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  • [06:36:24] <_koen_> s/it/if/
  • [06:36:58] <ppoudel> Yes, I am using it in the compile stage.
  • [06:37:19] <ppoudel> I was looking at the recipie you provided.
  • [06:37:23] <PythonPup> The beagleboard uses linux in all the examples I see. Is it safe to assume that if the computer I am working on and connecting to the beagleboard is also running Linux that I will be able to develop. I am checking that that there are no dependancies on Windows. I don't run Windows, and I want to know that I'll be OK.
  • [06:37:55] <ddd> av500, i would say, last time, we talked about the speed up for a for loop from dsp side, it is true, if you use dsp side , the speed up is obvious,
  • [06:38:56] <ppoudel> _koen_:I need to copy the library to the ${STAGING_LIBDIR} as the app is unable to find libopencvdsp.so
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  • [06:42:05] <_koen_> ppoudel: yes, libraries other apps link against go in there, but you do that in the do_install step
  • [06:42:34] <av500> ddd: ???
  • [06:42:52] <ppoudel> _koen_: my makefile does that while building library. That is on the do_compile step.
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  • [06:43:46] <_koen_> that sounds wrong to me
  • [06:43:57] <_koen_> but your stuff has some nice circular dependencies, though
  • [06:44:14] <_koen_> can't you use rpath-link or pass a -L ?
  • [06:44:42] <ddd> av500, i mean no further modification for dsp side code, just use the same c code in dsp side, the speedup is obvious.
  • [06:44:58] <av500> no
  • [06:45:06] <_koen_> the dsp doesn't magically make things faster
  • [06:45:13] <_koen_> crappy code will still be crappy
  • [06:45:21] <av500> ddd: i sent you bunch of urls to dsp side optomizations...
  • [06:45:50] <_koen_> av500: I hope c6accel succeeds
  • [06:45:54] <mru> so how long does the dsp need for an infinite loop?
  • [06:45:59] <av500> 12s
  • [06:46:25] <ddd> yeah, just put a optimization parameter into.
  • [06:46:43] <_koen_> -OMG -noatime
  • [06:46:58] <ppoudel> _koen_: was that for me? about rpath-link or -L
  • [06:47:03] <mru> -Oinf
  • [06:47:03] <_koen_> yes
  • [06:47:16] * _koen_ heads to breakfast
  • [06:47:42] <ppoudel> _koen_: I will look into it.
  • [06:48:18] <ds> code written for a general purpose processor (x86, arm) will almost certainly be slower on a DSP of the same clock speed
  • [06:48:37] <ds> the c64x takes 6 cycles to do a branch
  • [06:48:57] <mru> no, it takes one cycle with 5 delay slots
  • [06:49:12] <mru> each of which can contain 8 instructions
  • [06:50:24] <av500> thats like heading for breakfast before even the alarm clock rings....
  • [06:50:52] <av500> new2bb: http://av500.posterous.com/dsplink-or-dspbridge
  • [06:51:04] <mru> the nice thing is you know exactly how long all your branches will take
  • [06:51:12] <ds> typical C code will fill up exactly 0 of those delay cycles
  • [06:51:32] <mru> I suspect a decent compiler might use one or two of them
  • [06:51:35] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@201.250.186.118) has joined #beagle
  • [06:51:49] <av500> mru: the ti compiler docs hint that it might fill them if you teach it a bit
  • [06:52:14] <mru> are you suggesting the docs are accurate?
  • [06:52:23] <av500> i never tried it
  • [06:52:33] * emeb|mac (~ericb@ip72-223-81-194.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [06:52:41] <av500> i have a codec team in bangalore :)
  • [06:53:11] <av500> but ddd will try soon and report....
  • [06:53:21] <new2bb> av500, nice :)
  • [06:53:51] <mru> see if it can fit an infinite loop in the delay slot
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  • [06:58:39] <PythonPup> I'll ask again tomorrow. Have a good night.
  • [06:58:52] * jpsaman (~jpsaman@videolan/developer/jpsaman) has joined #beagle
  • [06:59:03] <mru> hi jpsaman
  • [06:59:10] <av500> hi jpsaman
  • [06:59:19] <ghoti> hi jpsaman
  • [07:02:41] <jpsaman> morning guys
  • [07:03:40] <jpsaman> how are you doing?
  • [07:03:47] <av500> busy :)
  • [07:09:46] <ghoti> not too busy to say hi, though.
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  • [07:18:01] <jpsaman> seems like everybody is busy which is kinda good I guess ;)
  • [07:24:08] * matthsu (~matt@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw) has joined #beagle
  • [07:27:29] <ppoudel> _koen_: When I try to copy the library to ${libdir}, it says "cp: cannot create regular file `/usr/lib/libopencvdsp.so': Permission denied".
  • [07:27:30] * hrw|gone is now known as hrw
  • [07:30:22] <av500> ppoudel: what are the permissions on /usr/lib
  • [07:30:26] * Zoxc (~zoxc@ti0128a340-dhcp0372.bb.online.no) Quit ()
  • [07:30:38] <av500> err, is it trying the system /usr/lib?
  • [07:30:46] <ppoudel> root.
  • [07:30:46] <av500> then your libdir is wrong
  • [07:31:28] * jpirko (~jirka@nat/redhat/x-mdwwxpqjlwibrfog) has joined #beagle
  • [07:32:48] <ppoudel> I was looking for variable for sysroots/armv7a-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib not the root /usr/lib. Thats my mistake. I could-not clarify it.
  • [07:35:13] <_koen_> you shouldn't be copying libs during compilation, that's just wrong
  • [07:36:51] <ppoudel> I will change the makefile.
  • [07:37:28] <ppoudel> But I can't compile my app until I have my libraries in the sysroots/armv7a-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib.
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  • [07:40:07] <_koen_> nonsense
  • [07:40:31] <_koen_> I can compile e.g. qt demo apps during the qt build
  • [07:40:52] <ddd> hey, av500, you said me what to try?
  • [07:43:46] <av500> try the ti dsp compiler optimizations
  • [07:46:02] <ddd> yesh, it works well
  • [07:46:15] <mru> so how long does an infinite loop take?
  • [07:46:21] * maqr (~maqr@httpcraft/hax) Quit (Quit: reboot :/)
  • [07:46:43] <ddd> you ask running on dsp side?
  • [07:47:21] <ddd> it can speed up draft 40%
  • [07:47:28] <ddd> compared to mpu
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  • [07:49:45] <mru> so it will finish the infinite loop in 40% of the usual time?
  • [07:49:53] <Doppelfrog> Morning all
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  • [07:50:11] <kai> hi folks
  • [07:50:13] <mru> can it solve the halting problem too?
  • [07:50:23] <mru> or is that just brokie?
  • [07:50:25] <av500> inb4 brookie
  • [07:51:07] <Doppelfrog> I was wondering if might get some assistance with unborking a BB?
  • [07:51:29] <Doppelfrog> Essentially, it won't boot from NAND anymore :(
  • [07:51:31] <ddd> yeah, normally, some loops can go up 60%, depends
  • [07:51:46] <av500> Doppelfrog: so boot from SD
  • [07:51:48] <mru> ddd: do you know what infinite means?
  • [07:51:58] <Doppelfrog> av500: Thanks... that bit works :)
  • [07:52:05] <av500> ok, next!
  • [07:52:19] <Doppelfrog> I have Angstrom installed to NAND and that used boot
  • [07:52:24] <Doppelfrog> av500: hhah
  • [07:52:28] <Doppelfrog> *opos, hahah
  • [07:52:30] <kai> av500 is his usual efficient self
  • [07:52:44] <Doppelfrog> Direct and straight to the point :)
  • [07:52:47] <Doppelfrog> What I get now is
  • [07:52:50] <Doppelfrog> NAND read: device 0 offset 0x280000, size 0x400000
  • [07:52:52] <Doppelfrog> 4194304 bytes read: OK
  • [07:52:53] <Doppelfrog> Wrong Image Format for bootm command
  • [07:52:55] <Doppelfrog> ERROR: can't get kernel image!
  • [07:53:12] <ddd> mru, are you talking in english
  • [07:53:25] <mru> sure
  • [07:53:34] <mru> prefer something else?
  • [07:53:34] <dm8tbr> ddd: but do you understand english?
  • [07:53:36] <Doppelfrog> Any ideas where I can start in resolving that one?
  • [07:53:39] <mru> I can do swedish
  • [07:54:21] <ddd> dm8tbr, where r u from
  • [07:54:30] <kai> Doppelfrog: I guess you might need to try and write the system to NAND again
  • [07:54:42] <Doppelfrog> kai: Tried that a couple of times...
  • [07:54:43] <dm8tbr> ddd: a land far far away
  • [07:54:52] <av500> neverland?
  • [07:54:59] <Doppelfrog> I'm using the Angstrom 'installer' SD - boots of SD, then copies Angstrom to NAND
  • [07:55:03] <ddd> no interesting
  • [07:55:31] <Doppelfrog> That's koen's Angstrom demo I think
  • [07:55:43] <kai> Doppelfrog: to be honest I've always used SD boot so far, my base system is too big for NAND
  • [07:55:57] * dm8tbr blows some magic pixie dust at av500
  • [07:56:01] <Doppelfrog> Ahhh. I need the card slot free unfortunately :(
  • [07:56:07] <mru> Bilkent University, Ankara, Turkey
  • [07:58:20] <Doppelfrog> I'm still not sure what I did that stopped with working... Grrr
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  • [08:06:04] <ppoudel> _koen_: I modified the makefile. I am getting some error regarding " No GNU_HASH in the elf binary". More detail on this link. http://pastebin.com/NpUwH0EM
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  • [08:23:33] <av500> jpsaman: ping
  • [08:25:39] * ddd (8bb30dc4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.179.13.196) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [08:25:51] <jpsaman> av500: pong
  • [08:26:24] <av500> jpsaman: is any of your ce/link stuff public?
  • [08:26:41] <av500> aka can be used as a (bad) example? :)
  • [08:27:17] * JamieBennett (~JamieBenn@Maemo/community/contributor/JamieBennett) has joined #beagle
  • [08:27:24] <jpsaman> av500: look at http://git.m2x.eu/git/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=vlc.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/neuros
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  • [08:28:02] <jpsaman> it is only availabe using http, but if you need a checkout just ask me and I will fireup git-daemon
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  • [08:29:02] <av500> jpsaman: even the http does not show it all.
  • [08:29:27] <av500> codec/davinci is not in the tree, but in commitlogs
  • [08:30:17] <jpsaman> av500: I do not see an issue http://git.m2x.eu/git/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=vlc.git;a=tree;f=modules/codec/davinci;h=217540bc7b93a0486ebba35103716cc425caeaa2;hb=refs/heads/neuros
  • [08:30:26] * XorA|gone is now known as XorA
  • [08:30:27] <jpsaman> av500: it is in a branch 'neuros"
  • [08:30:42] <av500> ah
  • [08:30:50] <av500> now i remeber that i looked at the code before :)
  • [08:30:58] <av500> ...DAVINCI_HACK...
  • [08:31:06] <jpsaman> removed long ago by me ;)
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  • [08:31:18] <jpsaman> just ignore fb.c, I do not use it
  • [08:32:35] <av500> k
  • [08:32:38] <jpsaman> av500: my latest changes are not online yet
  • [08:33:11] <av500> eek, memcpy
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  • [08:56:55] <jpsaman> av500: non matching buffer types ;(
  • [08:59:30] <mru> and you solve that with a memcpy?!?!?!?
  • [09:02:19] <_koen_> I wonder if mru has a highlight on memcpy
  • [09:03:07] <mru> no, but I can sense evil from afar
  • [09:03:19] <av500> jpsaman: not a good excuse
  • [09:04:26] <av500> mru: you could use strcpy() instead, it will be faster on dark frames
  • [09:04:55] <av500> _koen_: pmi, where can i get the free dsp codecs?
  • [09:04:59] <jpsaman> av500: I never knew that
  • [09:05:36] <jpsaman> anyway I would like to optimize those memcpy away, but did not get around to it yet
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  • [09:06:23] <_koen_> av500: http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/ti/ti-codecs-omap3530_1.01.00.bb
  • [09:06:42] <mru> jpsaman: find -name '*.c' | xargs perl -pi -e 's/memcpy//g'
  • [09:08:15] <jpsaman> ;)
  • [09:11:06] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@201.250.186.118) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  • [09:12:03] <av500> mru: to be fair, the DSP already outputs 422, so the memcpy takes the place of the 420P to 422 conversion...
  • [09:12:23] <_koen_> mru: sed supports -i since a while as well
  • [09:14:00] <new2bb> av500:, this might be very basic question for u, can you tell me how should (commands or instructions )i run the test app, video_copy? i tried messagegpp , it did work, bt could not find the way to test video_copy (codec-engine examples)?
  • [09:14:40] <mru> _koen_: only gnu sed
  • [09:14:47] <mru> and perl is faster
  • [09:15:11] <av500> if there are a lot of memcpys :)
  • [09:15:21] <mru> av500: if the video is coded as 420 and the codec outputs 422, someone is doing a conversion inside the decoder
  • [09:15:34] <av500> mru: yes, I knew you would say that :)
  • [09:16:20] * _koen_ suddenly knows why sed on his mac always messesd up
  • [09:16:44] <mru> and if you're decoding a 422 source, you can decode directly to the framebuffer instead of copying
  • [09:16:47] <av500> ah, mnu sed
  • [09:17:26] <av500> mru: well, you might want to decode into a contigous buffer that you can pass to the fb/v4l/dss whatever
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  • [09:17:46] <av500> but yes
  • [09:18:05] <mru> av500: same thing
  • [09:18:10] <av500> it all boils down to whether your "chain" can handle non-std malloced buffers
  • [09:18:13] <mru> it's all on the same ram chip
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  • [09:35:32] <new2bb> someone has any idea ab't this error "omapfb omapfb: setup_plane failed" ?
  • [09:37:23] <av500> in what context?
  • [09:38:04] <av500> _koen_: TI ships package.mak files :)
  • [09:38:37] <av500> and .xdcenv.mak
  • [09:40:01] <av500> ah, you ship the whole build
  • [09:42:39] <new2bb> i am trying loopback video test link followed is :http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Example_GStreamer_Pipelines#OMAP35x, its giving error on running: "unable to initialize display" and on serial port its throwing "omapfb:setup_plane failed", some idea?
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  • [10:11:17] <_koen_> hmmm
  • [10:11:27] <_koen_> that was easier than expected
  • [10:11:52] <_koen_> having the xm encode the cam to h264, streaming it over the network to a c3 and have it decode that
  • [10:11:57] <_koen_> on the dsp, of course
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  • [10:20:39] <av500> all in 10 lines of code?
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  • [10:25:42] <hvaibhav> root
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  • [10:30:02] <kai> how do I update a bitbake package for my OE build chain? the OE version I checked out with that angstrom helper script ships a version of samba that's too old to be useful for me
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  • [10:43:31] <_koen_> av500: on the xm: gst-launch -v v4l2src ! TIVidenc1 codecName=h264enc engineName=codecServer ! rtph264pay pt=96 ! udpsink host=137.167.88.192 port=5000
  • [10:44:03] <_koen_> one the c3: gst-launch -v udpsrc port=5000 caps='application/x-rtp, media=(string)video, clock-rate=(int)90000, encoding-name=(string)H264' ! rtph264depay ! ffdec_h264 ! omapdmaifbsink
  • [10:44:31] <av500> ffdec?
  • [10:44:34] <ynezz> Hi, is suspend to disk (SD) working on Beagle? I might need to test some PM usbtouchscreen patches with suspend to disk and I can't to get suspend2disk working on my laptop/
  • [10:45:41] <av500> _koen_: no TIViddec?
  • [10:45:51] <_koen_> heh
  • [10:45:56] * _koen_ tries tividdec2
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  • [12:03:04] <Doppelfrog> H iall; quick question., What's involved to get get USB storage working under Angstrom?
  • [12:03:39] <Doppelfrog> If I plug in a USB drive (e.g. thumb drive) I get the message "usb 1-1.1: device v090c p1000 is not supported"
  • [12:05:27] <av500> using a powered hub?
  • [12:08:09] <Doppelfrog> PLugged directly into the USB port (via OTG adapter)
  • [12:08:22] * Openfree (~df@222.65.243.79) has joined #beagle
  • [12:08:45] <Doppelfrog> Might try powered hub later too
  • [12:11:16] <Doppelfrog> Actually, let me restate that. Yes, via powered hub :)
  • [12:11:53] <mru> powdered hub...
  • [12:13:00] <Doppelfrog> mmm, powdered hub. Sounds tasty
  • [12:14:15] * scrp3l (~scrp3l@201.250.186.118) has joined #beagle
  • [12:14:17] <Doppelfrog> So the drive is 'seen' on the USB port: http://pastebin.com/6MADifzk
  • [12:14:40] <Doppelfrog> but doesn't get mounted
  • [12:16:35] <ddd_> hey, av500, "opencv-dsp-acceleration" is good link for CE, just curious about can it be used for zoom2 board? not only beagleboard.
  • [12:17:20] <av500> why not?
  • [12:17:42] <ddd_> thanks, i have not read all of it.
  • [12:18:01] <av500> dsplink runs as well on the zoom2/3
  • [12:19:24] <ddd_> yeah, all dsplink part seems same, but just focus on ce now
  • [12:19:55] * hitlin37 (6eea0302@gateway/web/freenode/ip.110.234.3.2) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [12:19:55] <av500> same for CE
  • [12:21:10] * pcacjr (~pcacjr@unaffiliated/pcacjr) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
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  • [12:23:44] <ssvb> Doppelfrog: you can try to harass Angstrom people and make them enable more stuff in their default kernel configs :)
  • [12:24:00] <Doppelfrog> ssvb: Will it help? :)
  • [12:24:19] <mru> ask koen
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  • [12:26:39] <Doppelfrog> I will when he shows up. :)
  • [12:26:50] <Doppelfrog> is there a 'quick' fix, or is it a case of rebuilding?
  • [12:27:33] * calculus (~calculus@gentoo/user/calculus) has joined #beagle
  • [12:27:50] <new2bb> what should be the bootargs and bootcmd for dsplink example ringiogpp requires?? i have set mem=80M?
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  • [12:33:21] <new2bb> av500: what should be the bootargs and bootcmd values, i have tried mem=80M,mem=99M, but ringiogpp didn't work? can u give some input?
  • [12:34:47] <av500> you can check the loadmodules.sh script for the CMEM size and start
  • [12:34:55] <av500> that has to match the end of linux memory
  • [12:35:35] <av500> why do you assume this is the issue? dsplink it self does not use CMEM, only CE
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  • [12:40:20] <new2bb> av500:/usr/share/ti/gst/loadmodule.sh? Is what u referred. Can you tell me how should i assign the bootargs and bootcmd ? the loadmodule.sh is at :http://pastebin.com/cSb7vwbk, Sorry, but i have tried, it didn't work, if u can tell me once, i will understand ?
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  • [12:55:33] <av500> phys_start=0x86300000 phys_end=0x87300000
  • [12:55:39] <av500> 0x80000000 is the start of SDRAM
  • [12:56:11] <av500> so, start = 99M, end=115M
  • [12:56:44] <av500> but as i said, ringiogpp is not an CE example, just dsplink....
  • [12:56:47] * Redb3ard (~SF0010MAC@lbb-dslst.69616810.amaonline.com) has joined #beagle
  • [12:56:50] <av500> so no CMEM needed/used
  • [12:58:03] <ddd_> av500, when ./oebb.sh needs "The <machine> argument", what can i put if my board is zoom2?
  • [12:58:17] <av500> ddd_: I know nothing about oe
  • [12:59:00] <new2bb> av500, can u chk this bootargs setenv bootargs 'console=ttyS2,115200n8 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw rootwait omapfb.mode=dvi:1360x768MR-16@60 mem=99M@0x80000000 mem=115M@0x88000000'
  • [12:59:06] <new2bb> is it correct?
  • [12:59:19] <av500> mem=99M@0x80000000 mem=128M@0x88000000
  • [12:59:37] <av500> 99M + 29M + 128M = 256
  • [12:59:47] <av500> 29M = CMEM + DSP stuff
  • [13:00:14] <ddd_> i c, does ppoudel have idea about it? thank you.
  • [13:01:16] <_koen_> for ce and link examples do s/99/80/
  • [13:01:31] <av500> new2bb: ^^^^
  • [13:01:43] <av500> _koen_: and there is a different loadmodules.sh?
  • [13:01:45] <ppoudel> ddd_: No idea
  • [13:02:06] <_koen_> av500: there should a loadmodules in the examples dir
  • [13:02:09] <av500> _koen_: and when will you stop with these silly pools?
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  • [13:02:53] <_koen_> av500: for video decode you can use a heap, but for other stuff you need to use pools to avoid running into memory leak bugs
  • [13:03:03] <_koen_> it got explained to me yesterday :)
  • [13:03:24] <av500> define other stuff?
  • [13:03:24] <_koen_> they literally said "vladimir doesn't need it"
  • [13:03:37] <av500> lol
  • [13:05:35] * ogra woudnt mind a pool currently
  • [13:05:50] <av500> I can see that use case
  • [13:06:25] <ogra> and one of these waterproof toughbooks
  • [13:07:09] <av500> submerging it kill wifi
  • [13:07:36] * NotZed thinks of a volcanically heated pool
  • [13:07:57] <av500> go to .nz
  • [13:08:02] <ogra> i wasnt after *heated* at all
  • [13:08:37] * dm8tbr hasn't heard of an volcanically cooled pool yet ;)
  • [13:08:46] <ogra> lol
  • [13:08:55] <sakoman_> after a couple of weeks of 100F+ days my pool is almost too warm to swim in
  • [13:09:06] <NotZed> you're not mid-winter. brrr.
  • [13:09:32] * dm8tbr enjoys finland. so far only 2 hot days, yesterday and the day before
  • [13:10:07] <ogra> germany has a heatwave since two weeks ... and it seem it will go on
  • [13:10:49] <NotZed> how hot?
  • [13:11:05] <new2bb> av500:, i have used 99M and 128M, messagegpp is running successfully, with ringiogpp facing this:http://pastebin.com/N6Emi2xL
  • [13:11:13] <new2bb> where am i wrong ?
  • [13:11:32] <mru> NotZed: 30-35
  • [13:11:33] <ogra> lowest was 26??C yesterday ... average is 32??C i'd say, for the weekend 38??C and ongoing is announced
  • [13:11:55] <NotZed> nice
  • [13:12:01] <mru> not at all
  • [13:12:04] <mru> it's too hot
  • [13:12:05] <ogra> nope
  • [13:12:11] <mru> and no aircon where I'm staying
  • [13:12:20] <NotZed> we had 5 days over 45 in october last year
  • [13:12:22] <ogra> typically german ...
  • [13:12:24] <NotZed> in a row
  • [13:12:32] <ogra> AC is evil ... we dont buy them
  • [13:12:49] <NotZed> 8 over 40 iirc
  • [13:13:05] <mru> where was that?
  • [13:13:35] <NotZed> adelaide australia
  • [13:13:42] <av500> new2bb: for the 3rd time now, it has nothing to do with the mem= argument
  • [13:14:59] <av500> new2bb: see the thread "DSPLink (DSP-side component was not initialized)" on the ML
  • [13:15:02] <NotZed> hmm, my memory fails me, at least according to wikipedia
  • [13:15:08] <av500> and subscribe to it
  • [13:15:45] <NotZed> it was only 6 over 38
  • [13:16:15] <mru> 6/38 == 3/19
  • [13:16:43] <NotZed> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_2009_southeastern_Australia_heat_wave
  • [13:16:54] * av500 prefers 38 days of 6 over 6 days of 38
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  • [13:18:33] <NotZed> it wasn't too nice at all
  • [13:21:12] <Doppelfrog> Hi _koen_
  • [13:21:25] <Doppelfrog> rumour has it that you're the man... :)
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  • [13:28:39] <new2bb> av500:, its resolved, nw ringiogpp and all dsp-examples are working
  • [13:28:41] <new2bb> :)
  • [13:29:13] <av500> nw?
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  • [13:32:12] <NotZed> well at least you're not in Marble Bar. world record heatwave of 160 consecutive days over 37.8 ...
  • [13:32:35] * Ceriand|work (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) has joined #beagle
  • [13:38:10] <jkridner1> _koen_: I'm determined to get down to a 20 minute build time for a full-blown Angstrom image, if it is possible. I'm still a long ways off, even with a m4.x4large Amazon EC2 image.
  • [13:40:52] <jkridner1> _koen_: My tmpfs is up to 6,386,896kB and I still have 29,453,216kB to go.
  • [13:41:00] <mru> steal roger's build machine that _koen_ keeps talking about
  • [13:41:15] <ant_work> 20 mins from scratch is utopic even with the fastest raid
  • [13:41:41] <av500> and why would you rebuilt it all, all the time?
  • [13:41:51] * new2bb (a4a4fa0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.164.250.10) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [13:42:07] <ant_work> talking for reference
  • [13:42:19] <ant_work> rebuild from pstage takes abour half an hour
  • [13:42:45] <ant_work> tmpfs does not seem to help much. ccache makes thing even worst
  • [13:43:03] <Doppelfrog> _koen_ : Any thoughts on this? http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/964cc65ad6dde3d3
  • [13:43:17] <av500> ant_work: http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2010/07/12/debunking-ccache-myths-redux
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  • [13:43:26] <mru> tmpfs is only as fast as your virtual memory
  • [13:43:32] <mru> if you start hitting swap it slows down
  • [13:43:43] <ant_work> only 8GB here :/
  • [13:44:10] <ant_work> btw I use Gentoo
  • [13:44:20] <ant_work> and Diego hinted long ago
  • [13:44:33] <ant_work> ;)
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  • [13:46:43] <jkridner1> ant_work: utopic?
  • [13:47:03] <av500> jkridner1: utopic is ubifs clone?
  • [13:47:15] <ant_work> I have no idea about the server-cluster behind you
  • [13:47:39] <jkridner1> ant_work: interesting, I thought that tmpfs would provide significant improvement to the file I/O, no?
  • [13:47:58] <ant_work> not on normal Workstations (xeon, sata disk)
  • [13:47:59] <sakoman_> jkridner1: I have a dedicated quad core server with lots of memory and fast hard drives -- and it takes that machine *way* longer than 20 minutes!
  • [13:49:30] <kai> ant_work: well, given that tridge wrote ccache to help the samba build far rebuild samba faster, the use case of ccache is limited
  • [13:49:50] <kai> for a slow machine and rebuilds, as the blog states, ccache is indeed useful
  • [13:50:04] <jkridner1> ant_work: I'm using 68.4GB of RAM and 8 cores.
  • [13:50:20] <ant_work> btw I build with PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j5" BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4" on xeon and unfortunately bitbake doesn't take advantage of the multithreading (ome legacyrecipes need to be fixxed)
  • [13:50:26] <kai> if you're blindly using options that you hope will make stuff magically faster, that's probably not going to work
  • [13:50:39] * jconnolly|away is now known as jc|mobile
  • [13:50:54] * sakoman_ just tries to avoid clean builds
  • [13:51:26] * jkridner1 wants to be sure to have a super-clean snapshot for the BeagleBoard-xM SD card image.
  • [13:51:28] <ant_work> there is another issue: long ago 2,5GB could contain 3 images
  • [13:51:41] <ant_work> now we have much more debug and size increased a lot
  • [13:52:01] <ant_work> peak usage was about 4 GB building console-image and x11-image
  • [13:52:20] <sakoman_> jkridner1: does that mean xM shipments will start soon?
  • [13:52:57] <jkridner1> Gerald's given me a deadline of Monday for the code images.
  • [13:53:36] <ant_work> kai: I don't see any sense usingccache for OpenEmbedded, neither for Gentoo itself
  • [13:53:54] <Crofton> we need to rethin the debug flag setting in Angstrom
  • [13:54:15] <jkridner1> going to -j8 and 8 threads has driven my RAM consumption up quite a bit, but still under about 1/4 of the RAM.
  • [13:54:27] <kai> ant_work: I agree
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  • [13:54:48] <kai> ant_work: I just use it when trying patches for samba on my beagle
  • [13:54:48] <ant_work> jkridner1: unfortunately some recipe still have legacy staging and/or exclude parallel build
  • [13:55:19] <ant_work> kai: it's ok for monothonic compile
  • [13:55:40] <ant_work> just dunno how much time one saves..perhaps building epihany...
  • [13:55:47] <ant_work> or such monsters
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  • [13:56:20] <ant_work> li'l samba compiles in a few mins on old dual PIII
  • [13:56:48] <kai> ant_work: samba4 takes about two hours on the beagle for a clean build
  • [13:57:27] <kai> 2-3 minutes on my work box
  • [13:57:48] <jkridner1> doh: well, it is a lot faster, but not the improvement some led me to believe I might get by going entirely RAM for the work folder....
  • [13:57:49] <ant_work> seems it's ok for on-target builds, then
  • [13:58:05] <jkridner1> I'm still confused why tmpfs isn't a bigger speed-up.
  • [13:58:16] <jkridner1> would a real ramdisk be more of a speedup?
  • [13:58:23] <ant_work> jkridner1: I'll be happy to do some benchs on my buildhost
  • [14:00:12] <jkridner1> is gcc-cross-initial broken when building on Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64?
  • [14:00:23] <NotZed> maybe disk i/o isn't the bottleneck
  • [14:01:12] <av500> jkridner1: its all these .bb files, get rid of them!
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  • [14:02:04] <jkridner1> indeed.
  • [14:02:11] <ojn> jkridner1: back-to-back compiles? ramdisk will only really help you on the first build, or on write-heavy workloads. Even with disk most data will be cached for the second build.
  • [14:02:55] <ant_work> iirc someone (koen ?) did an analisys recently
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  • [14:03:40] <jkridner1> ojn: I'm only trying to get one build from scratch in my flow, which is to validate that I have 100% complete metadata and downloads tree.
  • [14:05:51] <ojn> jkridner1, first thing to look at would be a running "vmstat 2" during the build. If you have idle time then the build isn't parallelized enough. If you have wait time then I/O is limiting. That's simplifying it a whole lot, of course.
  • [14:06:46] <ojn> wait can also be counteracted with upping the number of parallel builds, since wait means idle-until-data-is-read, i.e. there's cpu available.
  • [14:07:04] <b7500af1> Crofton, ping
  • [14:07:22] <ojn> all this assumes you have enough memory to support the workload and cache enough filesystem contents, of course. :)
  • [14:08:22] <Crofton> pong
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  • [14:12:53] <jkridner1> ojn: http://pastebin.com/MvSnA0i2
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  • [14:14:14] <jkridner1> weird....
  • [14:14:19] <ant_work> try uptime
  • [14:14:30] <ant_work> and see load avg
  • [14:15:04] <jkridner1> something happened because the whole thing is stalled right now.
  • [14:15:09] <ojn> jkridner1: what kind of machine? 8-core?
  • [14:15:31] <jkridner1> Xen machine with 8 cores assigned.
  • [14:15:34] <ant_work> jkridner1: I didn't want to tell you before..with many threads I hit race issues *sometimes*
  • [14:15:40] <ojn> ah, xen.
  • [14:15:44] <ant_work> just restart bitabke
  • [14:16:01] <jkridner1> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ High-Memory Quadruple Extra Large Instance "26 EC2 Compute Units (8 virtual cores with 3.25 EC2 Compute Units each)"
  • [14:16:08] <ojn> gotcha
  • [14:16:22] <av500> jkridner1: the cores are virtual
  • [14:16:33] <av500> not real
  • [14:16:44] <av500> its a qemu running on an AVR cluster or so
  • [14:17:04] <jkridner1> started going again.
  • [14:17:22] <jkridner1> 14:17:13 up 1:18, 2 users, load average: 4.68, 3.15, 2.84
  • [14:17:46] <ant_work> well, very bad atm
  • [14:18:04] <ant_work> it oscillates: on the end of the build it reaches 100%
  • [14:18:23] <ant_work> at the beginning there are delays when some recipes disable parallel build
  • [14:18:32] <ant_work> (toolchain mostly)
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  • [14:19:06] <jkridner1> the "wa" time was getting pretty large (~90), but now seems to have dropped down to 10-60.
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  • [14:22:35] * jkridner1 guesses I'm more bottlenecked on reads than on writes based on this data.
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  • [14:33:46] <ant_work> jkridner1: almost one hour ...
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  • [14:44:05] * jkridner1 doesn't understand why 'tmpfs' can still be a bottleneck on performance.
  • [14:45:35] <mru> you need enough ram to hold both the tmpfs and all the compilers etc
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  • [14:49:57] <ant_work> he has 68GB...not enough?
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  • [15:02:12] * _koen_ admires the new 15fps on the xm
  • [15:03:15] <mru> 15fps of what?
  • [15:03:30] <mru> femtopicosecond?
  • [15:03:52] <_koen_> video from the vga sensor
  • [15:04:07] <_koen_> hvaibhav is tweaking the pixclock dividers to get more fps
  • [15:04:16] <_koen_> we went 0 -> 4 -> 9 -> 15
  • [15:04:27] <mru> 22 next?
  • [15:05:19] * jconnolly (~jconnolly@firebug.buglabs.net) Quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [15:05:24] * katie (~katierh@nat/ti/x-zxwfucbuvijwhyup) Quit ()
  • [15:05:32] <_koen_> I asked for 60
  • [15:06:36] <ant_work> jkridner1: the thread about I/O http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2010-February/017352.html
  • [15:08:12] * jpirko (~jirka@nat/redhat/x-mdwwxpqjlwibrfog) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [15:08:25] <_koen_> things like qt are iobound
  • [15:08:56] <_koen_> and large packages are io bound in install/strip/package
  • [15:09:17] <_koen_> and as you said, legacy staging causes a complete rescan of all files in sysroots
  • [15:09:26] <_koen_> which trashes the cashes
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  • [15:17:00] * mrc3_ (~ddiaz@189.157.110.29) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [15:18:10] <ant_work> yes, old-style staging is the enemy
  • [15:21:13] <Crofton> anyone know if a lauterbach LA-7690 is useful for a beagle
  • [15:21:23] <Crofton> or LA-7705
  • [15:22:08] <Crofton> or 7708
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  • [15:28:45] <av500> lauterbach website
  • [15:28:58] <av500> all 3 supported
  • [15:29:03] <av500> but u need LA-7843
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  • [15:33:28] <xvff> my beagle boards audio is not working. I installed ubuntu and dont see any recognizable audio hardware. even at startup the "Audio Tone on Speakers ... complete" message as outlined by the wiki, is not seen. can someone help?
  • [15:34:00] * awozniak (~awozniak@adsl-76-205-222-173.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  • [15:36:41] <Doppelfrog> Hmm, that's strange. :)
  • [15:36:58] <Doppelfrog> What do you see at boot-up ? (prior to OS loading?)
  • [15:37:49] * dl9pf_ (~quassel@p5B214ECC.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [15:38:12] <xvff> http://pastebin.ca/1900498 this is what I see
  • [15:40:09] <Doppelfrog> That seems to be a 'feature' of later versions of the U-boot
  • [15:40:39] <Doppelfrog> If you set up a card with the basic diagnostics build, do you get the audio confirmation message?
  • [15:40:39] * awozniak (~awozniak@76.205.222.173) has joined #beagle
  • [15:40:53] <Doppelfrog> Also, if you have speaker/headphones plugged in to the port, do you actually hear anything?
  • [15:41:02] <xvff> nope i dont hear anything
  • [15:41:10] <av500> Doppelfrog: not sure that audio tone is in current uboots
  • [15:41:20] <av500> i think it was in earlier TI-specific ones
  • [15:41:23] <Doppelfrog> Ahh, that would explain it
  • [15:41:29] <Doppelfrog> I remember seeing/hearing it in the past
  • [15:41:30] <av500> to which the src code got lost or so
  • [15:41:35] <Doppelfrog> ouch
  • [15:41:43] <av500> no, good thing in this case
  • [15:41:50] <Doppelfrog> too noisy? :)
  • [15:41:55] <av500> its a boot loader, not a jukebox
  • [15:42:02] <Doppelfrog> haha
  • [15:42:08] <Doppelfrog> Why can't it be both? :p
  • [15:42:15] <av500> what else should it test? HD video playback on a ??D surface?
  • [15:42:18] <av500> 3D
  • [15:42:20] <Doppelfrog> needs command line mp3 player interface while we're at it
  • [15:42:45] <Doppelfrog> Contentious issues; could argue it's just confirming basic h/w functionallity
  • [15:42:51] <av500> no
  • [15:42:55] <av500> wrong approach
  • [15:43:03] <av500> load a diagnostic kernel for such things
  • [15:43:08] <xvff> but can i use an old version of uboot and install the latest ubuntu?
  • [15:43:19] <av500> u dont need an old version of uboot
  • [15:43:57] <Doppelfrog> to confirm, the 'real' problem is that Ubuntu's not seeing any audio hardware?
  • [15:44:06] <xvff> yep
  • [15:44:09] <xvff> thats it
  • [15:44:20] <av500> the dont play around with uboot
  • [15:44:25] <xvff> ok
  • [15:44:30] <av500> play with uboontoo
  • [15:45:08] <xvff> well i did, it says and i tried the
  • [15:45:17] <xvff> it says and i tried the
  • [15:45:26] <xvff> aplay: device_list:221: no soundcard found...
  • [15:46:05] <av500> lsmod
  • [15:46:39] <xvff> i tried that too, forgot what it said, let me try it once more
  • [15:46:45] <xvff> just loading up the os
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  • [15:49:57] <xvff> lsmod gives me this http://pastebin.ca/1900501
  • [15:50:27] <av500> does not look like sound drivers to me
  • [15:50:32] * Proxyles (~henrik@c-f893e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [15:50:45] <av500> unless they are compiled in
  • [15:51:09] <ghoti> Can an AGM battery be safely discharged further than other lead-acid batteries?
  • [15:52:14] <av500> http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries
  • [15:52:21] <xvff> could my on board sound card be disabled? how can I check that?
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  • [15:58:05] <xvff> is there something like a bios for the beagle board?
  • [15:58:29] <av500> no
  • [15:58:42] <av500> its not a PC
  • [15:59:07] <xvff> ya, but something similar to that to see what hardware is available
  • [15:59:09] <xvff> ?
  • [15:59:16] <av500> no
  • [15:59:19] <av500> the hw is fixed
  • [16:00:16] <xvff> yes i know, but if I wanted to know what those fixed hw's are before loading the os.
  • [16:00:29] * cbrake_away is now known as cbrake
  • [16:00:31] <av500> you look at the schematics
  • [16:00:39] <av500> and the TRM
  • [16:00:50] <av500> but that work is already done
  • [16:01:22] <xvff> hmm, what commands can I use from the serial terminal to lets say to ourput a sound to the audio device?
  • [16:01:36] * aholler_ is now known as aholler
  • [16:02:06] <_koen_> the same commands as you can use with ssh
  • [16:02:10] <_koen_> or plain login
  • [16:04:12] <xvff> ok. when I start the bb out of the box, and get the OMAP3 beagleboard.org # prompt, what is the software that I am working with at this point?
  • [16:04:19] <av500> uboot
  • [16:04:23] * plars (~plars@ubuntu/member/plars) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  • [16:05:01] <xvff> ok, so then i guess what i am looking for is a uboot command to access the audio device
  • [16:05:32] <xvff> ac500: any idea what that would be?
  • [16:05:39] * _koen_ just loads up angstrom and plays a song using the media player
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  • [16:06:26] <xvff> ok, can the media plyer in angstrom be used from command line? I dot have a monitor connected
  • [16:07:49] <_koen_> "the" media player?
  • [16:07:58] <Doppelfrog> _koen_: Have I got an Angstrom question for you... :)
  • [16:08:06] * radhermit (~radhermit@radhermit-1-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:08:37] <Doppelfrog> I can't get it to support USB drives :(
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  • [16:09:22] <Doppelfrog> Just tell me that device x is not supported
  • [16:09:27] <xvff> yes "the" media player :)
  • [16:09:36] <ghoti> av500: thanks for the link, that's some good stuff, but I don't see anything there that answers my question. Or perhaps I just don't understand the answer.
  • [16:09:55] * maria1 (~mrodrigue@201.196.107.110) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [16:10:00] <av500> ghoti: it was the 1st google link I got
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  • [16:10:23] <ghoti> Ya, well, I was doing my own googling. When I couldn't find an answer to my question there, I came here.
  • [16:10:35] <av500> xvff: there are no audio commands in uboot.
  • [16:10:39] <av500> uboot boot linux
  • [16:10:49] <xvff> ok
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  • [16:10:54] <av500> ghoti: coz this is the battery channel :)
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  • [16:11:36] <av500> can I declare like a wildcard for a makefile target?
  • [16:11:38] <ghoti> av500: sure, when you're using the battery to power a Beagleboard!
  • [16:12:10] <av500> $(TGT)/foo_*.x: $(SRC)_bar*.y
  • [16:12:31] <mru> s/*/%/
  • [16:12:39] <av500> just %?
  • [16:12:43] <mru> yes
  • [16:12:54] <av500> and how do i reference is? $(%)?
  • [16:12:58] <mru> %
  • [16:13:03] <ghoti> :)
  • [16:13:08] <mru> a typical pattern is "%.o: %.c"
  • [16:13:14] <av500> right
  • [16:13:14] * amitk is now known as amitk-afk
  • [16:13:15] <av500> right
  • [16:13:36] * hrw is now known as hrw|gone
  • [16:13:52] <mru> in the commands $@ expands to the target and $^ to the prerequisites
  • [16:13:54] <xvff> this is a newbe question I know, in linux if I install the ALSA cound driver should it automatically detect any audio hardware?
  • [16:14:04] <av500> mru: that I knew :)
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  • [16:14:27] <mru> you can find many interesting constructs in the ffmpeg makefiles
  • [16:14:44] <av500> hmm, the % ended up verbatim in the command...
  • [16:14:53] <mru> then you did it wrong
  • [16:15:00] <av500> @mkdir -p $(TGT_PATH)/.%
  • [16:15:08] <av500> %=baz
  • [16:15:09] <mru> you can't use the % in the commands
  • [16:15:12] <av500> ah
  • [16:15:21] <av500> see, there was a trap
  • [16:15:32] * thaytan (~jan@ppp59-167-167-201.static.internode.on.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [16:15:34] <mru> there's something else that expands to the same thing there
  • [16:15:37] <av500> but i need to, its the whole purpose of my wildcarding
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  • [16:17:06] <mru> see if $* does what you want
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  • [16:19:59] <av500> indeed it does
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  • [16:31:59] <ghoti> How would I create a volt meter that can be read by the beagleboard? If I'm powering the bgb from a 12V lead-acid battery, I need some kind of undervoltage protection, and being able to record my voltage in the beagle itself would be ideal.
  • [16:31:59] * dl9pf (~quassel@opensuse/member/dl9pf) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [16:32:12] <av500> i2c ad converter
  • [16:32:15] <Crofton> av500, la-7853?
  • [16:32:21] <av500> lala?
  • [16:32:34] <Crofton> a friend of mine has a list of equipment someone is willing to donate to a uni
  • [16:32:44] <Crofton> and the parts I mentioend are on it
  • [16:32:55] <Crofton> I figure, someone is surplusing junk :)
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  • [16:32:56] <av500> Crofton: afaik, you can have all the HW in the world, but u need to right licenses and dongles
  • [16:33:18] * dl9pf (~quassel@opensuse/member/dl9pf) has joined #beagle
  • [16:33:33] <Crofton> heh
  • [16:33:39] <Crofton> yeah, that is what I suspect
  • [16:33:53] <mru> lauterbach licence dongles are a joke
  • [16:34:01] <mru> 1k serial eprom
  • [16:34:27] <av500> Crofton: a cpu option is like ???1700
  • [16:34:33] <av500> thats what we paid
  • [16:34:35] <Crofton> heh
  • [16:34:43] <Crofton> so the hardware is useless without a license
  • [16:34:46] <av500> so, do you really really need it?
  • [16:34:54] <Crofton> I don't
  • [16:34:57] <av500> all in all we paid 3k
  • [16:35:08] <Crofton> this is one of these lists they send around university's
  • [16:35:13] <Crofton> of "free" stuff
  • [16:35:37] <av500> actually, the HW we bought for $400
  • [16:35:46] <Doppelfrog> Free is good
  • [16:35:52] <Doppelfrog> right, that's enough for one day
  • [16:36:00] <Crofton> Free is bad if it costs K's to use it
  • [16:36:05] <Crofton> and it ends up taking up space
  • [16:36:26] <av500> well, give LA a call and ask them for a uni licennse
  • [16:36:38] <av500> or search rapidshare
  • [16:36:42] <Crofton> yeah, that is what I will mention
  • [16:36:50] <Crofton> I assume it works with CCS?
  • [16:36:53] <Doppelfrog> Right, laters all
  • [16:37:07] * Doppelfrog (~chatzilla@ip-87-82-198-210.easynet.co.uk) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939])
  • [16:37:08] <av500> Crofton: no idea, we bouhgt it and never used it...
  • [16:37:19] <Crofton> heh
  • [16:37:22] <av500> the project we needed it for died
  • [16:40:20] <Crofton> but it is supposed to work with CCS?
  • [16:42:00] <av500> iirc yes
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  • [16:50:10] <jevin> av500, are there actually pirate copies of trace32 / licensing bypasses for the hw?
  • [16:50:25] <jevin> seems like a very niche market to me :)
  • [16:51:09] <av500> jevin: pm me so we can discuss the details :)
  • [16:53:22] <mru> cloning the dongles should be easy
  • [16:53:31] <mru> serial eprom and level shifters
  • [16:54:51] <jevin> this is a good point
  • [16:55:29] * ssvb (~ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:55:46] <jevin> the debugger industry's customers are, more than most in other industries, in a good position to reverse engineer the products they buy :)
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  • [17:11:18] <mru> cracking open the plastic case and reading the part numbers of the chips isn't exactly rocket science
  • [17:12:31] <av500> mru: you need to get past the DCMA 1st :)
  • [17:12:53] <_koen_> EDMA?
  • [17:13:58] <av500> getting past DCMA might be easier...
  • [17:14:57] * amit08 (~amit@nat/ti/x-shnzlraswyxlvlpn) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  • [17:15:16] <mru> note, I never attempted to actually clone one of those dongles
  • [17:17:17] <av500> too late, black helos have been dispatched
  • [17:17:37] <mru> it's ok, they melted in the sun
  • [17:17:49] <av500> bacl helo sun
  • [17:17:51] <av500> black
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  • [17:49:49] <utd_student> how can i build the angstrom image that is available in the prebuilt binaries
  • [17:50:12] <utd_student> bitbake x11-image is different from the prebuilt available on the angstrom webpage
  • [17:53:11] <Redb3ard> ghoti, are you still here?
  • [17:53:37] * mmadrigal (~mmadrigal@186.4.15.155) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [17:53:50] <Redb3ard> Oh well, I found a place to buy a cheap 4 channel voltmeter, plugs into USB, has linux drivers.
  • [17:53:56] <Redb3ard> Size of a matchbox.
  • [17:54:43] * maria2 (~mrodrigue@201.196.107.110) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [17:56:25] <av500> url?
  • [17:56:42] <Redb3ard> Let me find it, just a sec.
  • [17:56:57] * cmurillo (~cmurillo@186.4.15.155) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [17:57:07] <Redb3ard> http://www.digital-measure.com/html/voltmeter.htm
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  • [17:59:05] <Redb3ard> Wish he had a decent current or resistance meter though.
  • [17:59:17] <Redb3ard> I need those too, can't find anything remotely cheap enough.
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  • [18:16:34] * Jefro_afk is now known as Jefro1
  • [18:16:42] <Cru_N_cher> http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Graphics_SDK <- outdated ?
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  • [18:17:38] <av500> not really
  • [18:17:53] <av500> ask koen how to get the latest sdk
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  • [18:31:40] <Cru_N_cher> av500 hmm the only inofficial way so is to rip them off the Archos firmware for Android :P ?
  • [18:31:58] <Cru_N_cher> i mean if you dont want to register with TI ;)
  • [18:32:38] <mru> where's the harm in registering?
  • [18:32:53] <mru> it's slightly annoying, nothing more
  • [18:33:06] <av500> the secret brain scans?
  • [18:33:40] <Cru_N_cher> where is the fun doing it legal :P
  • [18:34:28] <Cru_N_cher> and with being in the extranet circle :)
  • [18:36:12] <av500> Cru_N_cher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosrujtjJHA
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  • [18:38:40] <Cru_N_cher> now i know what ASS stands for ;)
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  • [18:42:34] <Crofton> mru, I just asked why this sucks
  • [18:42:35] <Crofton> http://pastebin.com/TSacn1LX
  • [18:43:03] <Crofton> as compared with the version that vmla's to two q regs and adds them at the end
  • [18:43:14] <Crofton> the theory is piplining
  • [18:43:16] <Crofton> I think
  • [18:43:52] <mru> that one stalls between the VMLAs
  • [18:44:06] <mru> vlma on q regs issues as two uops on d regs
  • [18:44:20] <mru> so the accumulator forwarding doesn't work here
  • [18:44:48] <mru> it's equivalent do vmla d16; vmla d17; vmla d16; vmla d17
  • [18:45:58] <Crofton> ah
  • [18:46:07] <Crofton> well
  • [18:46:14] <mru> all FP ops on q regs are split
  • [18:46:22] <mru> and integer muls too
  • [18:47:03] <Crofton> and the better is vmla d16; vmla d17; vmla d18; vmla d19
  • [18:47:16] <Crofton> which is what the fast version would expland too, roughly
  • [18:47:20] * ghoti_ looks at Redb3ard
  • [18:47:34] <Redb3ard> Hi ghoti.
  • [18:47:35] <mru> yes, that has no dependencies
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  • [18:47:42] <ghoti_> Hi. I see your link. Thanks!
  • [18:47:49] <Crofton> so basically the NEON unit is pipelining
  • [18:47:51] <Redb3ard> Welcome. Hope they help.
  • [18:47:59] <mru> you could try vmla d16; vmla d16; vmla d17; vmla d17
  • [18:48:05] <Crofton> and the slow set leads to a stall
  • [18:48:06] <mru> then you get the accumulator forwarding
  • [18:48:14] * dl9pf (~quassel@opensuse/member/dl9pf) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  • [18:48:18] <Redb3ard> Supposedly, you can measure the BB's current directly, with the i2c tools, but I can't figure out how.
  • [18:48:48] <Crofton> if you repalced the Q ops with the appropriate D ops, you would get the same performance?
  • [18:50:53] <mru> yes
  • [18:51:00] <Crofton> fascinating
  • [18:51:09] <Redb3ard> Hey ghoti, are you doing some sort of battery backup?
  • [18:51:13] <ghoti_> Redb3ard: though ... where do you see Linux support for it? While it says it registers as a UHID, I don't see any instructions as to how to pull data out of it.
  • [18:51:19] <Redb3ard> I also found another thing you might be interested in...
  • [18:51:34] <ghoti_> No, solar-powered beagle.
  • [18:51:37] <Redb3ard> Oh, I think he emailed those, actually. The website's not so great.
  • [18:52:00] <Redb3ard> We'll be doing solar too, with a marine battery.
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  • [18:55:41] <ghoti_> I've got an AGM battery; my biggest concern isn't the battery, but the solar array that will charge it. So a voltmeter that doesn't draw much current for itself would be preferable. :)
  • [18:55:51] * ghoti_ is now known as ghoti
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  • [19:01:08] <Redb3ard> Haven't measured it, myself.
  • [19:01:25] <Redb3ard> I imagine it's pretty low. Well under 100mA.
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  • [19:23:19] <Jefro1> ping koen - u-boot is reporting mem size = 128MB on a C4. this is a prebuilt I downloaded from the Angstrom page - just want something fancy to show at OSCON.
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  • [19:23:54] <Jefro1> is there a more recent prebuilt demo I should be using? or should I plan to rebuild it by hand? I'd like to play big buck bunny.
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  • [19:53:59] <grudger> hi everyone.
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  • [20:21:32] <Jefro1> anyone around who can help me diagnose an Angstrom boot problem?
  • [20:23:29] <mru> how far does it get?
  • [20:24:58] <Jefro1> hi mru, thanks
  • [20:25:06] <Jefro1> it simply stops at "I2C: ready"
  • [20:25:26] <Jefro1> this is with the latest MLO & u-boot.bin from the Angstrom beagleboard demo page
  • [20:25:55] <mru> I built those and booted a C3 just now
  • [20:26:10] <emeb> Jefro1: hold down the USER button while booting - does it get further?
  • [20:26:12] <Jefro1> hm. this is a C4 - it should just boot
  • [20:26:21] <Jefro1> no, same thing, just stops at I2C
  • [20:26:27] <mru> emeb: user button isn't involved there
  • [20:26:47] <emeb> Jefro1: that error usually indicates that there's a conflict between the MLO in NAND and the u-boot on SD
  • [20:27:04] <mru> Jefro1: where is your mlo?
  • [20:27:06] <Jefro1> emeb yes, thanks - I have wasted many hrs on that issue too :)
  • [20:27:07] <mru> nand or sd?
  • [20:27:17] <Jefro1> MLO is on SD,although there is probably one resident in NAND as well
  • [20:27:26] <mru> which one is it using?
  • [20:27:40] <Jefro1> well, if I hold down user button it should be using the one on SD
  • [20:27:47] <mru> yes, but is it?
  • [20:27:50] <Jefro1> hang on, I'll pop out the card & see if it has the same timestamp
  • [20:28:21] <mru> also make sure it's using u-boot from sd
  • [20:28:35] <Jefro1> nope, the one on SD (2010.03) is the broken one. the one in nand (2009.11) seems to work.
  • [20:29:26] <mru> so where is it loading u-boot from?
  • [20:29:44] <Jefro1> with the SD card in, it is loading u-boot from SD
  • [20:29:45] <mru> it should print "Loading u-boot.bin from ..."
  • [20:29:54] <mru> check again
  • [20:29:59] <mru> what does the message say?
  • [20:30:16] <Jefro1> yes. with the card in, it says "Loading u-boot.bin from mmc"
  • [20:30:26] <Jefro1> without the card in, it says "Loading u-boot.bin from mmc"
  • [20:30:29] <Jefro1> durf, sorry
  • [20:30:40] <Jefro1> without the card in, it says "Loading u-boot.bin from nand"
  • [20:30:45] <mru> ok
  • [20:31:00] <Jefro1> I have been booting many distros, and I think one of them must have reset the card to only boot from SD
  • [20:31:23] <mru> want to try my mlo+u-boot?
  • [20:31:37] <Jefro1> sure, that'd be great, thanks
  • [20:32:31] <mru> http://ffmpeg.org/~mru/beagle/
  • [20:32:39] <Jefro1> awesome, thanks
  • [20:32:56] <Jefro1> (my talk at OSCON on this subject is in exactly 1 week, LOL)
  • [20:33:12] <mru> u-boot is straight from koen's git
  • [20:33:21] <mru> x-load has a small patch
  • [20:33:32] <Jefro1> that might be just the patch I need, thanks
  • [20:33:33] <mru> the offset 63 one
  • [20:33:41] <Jefro1> related question - is there a working video mode for 1920x1080?
  • [20:34:07] <mru> I've heard reports of 1080p24 working
  • [20:34:22] <mru> or maybe it was 25 or 30
  • [20:34:25] <mru> they're mostly the same
  • [20:34:37] <Jefro1> ok, thanks - just want buck bunny to look good
  • [20:35:04] <mru> you won't be playing 1080p on a beagle
  • [20:35:56] <utd_student> can anyone help me with opkg install which is hanging
  • [20:36:35] <utd_student> i have to reset the board everytime and try installing the mods one by one
  • [20:36:48] <utd_student> using x11-image which i built
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  • [20:39:39] <Jefro1> mru - thanks for the bits. it seems to stall in the same place, but I have a workaround. (don't insert the card until I get a u-boot prompt)
  • [20:39:58] <mru> uhuh
  • [20:40:17] <_av500_> ?
  • [20:40:36] <_av500_> so u boot from nand?
  • [20:41:15] <mru> that's so last year...
  • [20:41:42] <Jefro1> _av500_ yes - I have been loading everything under the sun on this poor board, and one of the distros must have reset things to force it to boot from SD if the card is present. luckily the nand u-boot seems to work. I know how to fix it, but don't want to take the time to do it. :)
  • [20:42:37] <Jefro1> on the plus side... at oscon I'll be able to demo Angstrom, MontaVista Linux, Android (donut), and Ubuntu which looks frickin awesome
  • [20:43:17] <Jefro1> mru thanks for the help
  • [20:43:45] <mru> maybe time to clear the flashed env
  • [20:45:55] <Jefro1> yup
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  • [20:51:13] <Jefro1> is it just me, or are micro-sd cards just too *()&% small?
  • [20:51:36] <mru> not just you: http://xkcd.com/691/
  • [20:52:33] <Jefro1> ROFL
  • [20:53:07] <mru> I have some 8GB uSD cards, not all that small...
  • [20:53:22] <mru> I also have a 32MB one
  • [20:53:36] <mru> came with a phone once upon a time
  • [20:53:53] <mru> next phone came with a 1GB card
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  • [20:57:11] <Stu> guys i need some help im a noob
  • [20:57:43] <Stu> i built an image from http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/narcissus/ and chose it to have X11 and xfce4
  • [20:57:52] <Stu> i got it to boot and it shows the terminal
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  • [20:57:59] <_av500_> god
  • [20:58:00] <_av500_> good
  • [20:58:12] <Stu> but i dont know how to go from there to running xfce lol
  • [20:58:18] <Stu> i tried startxfce4
  • [20:58:30] <Stu> but it gave an error that there was no X server?
  • [21:00:17] * xMDKx (~mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-jfncbgcjpcocgpmg) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [21:00:26] <Stu> it said "xinit: no server "X" in PATH
  • [21:01:22] <Jefro1> I'm guessing that means /usr/bin/X doesn't exist
  • [21:01:31] * gustavoz (~gustavoz@host94.201-252-15.telecom.net.ar) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [21:01:37] <Jefro1> (X stuff is always confusing in my experience)
  • [21:01:47] <Stu> =\ ya thats how i feel now
  • [21:02:24] <Jefro1> it sounds like X wasn't installed in the build, for whatever reason. you should be able to do "startx" or, as you tried, "startxfce4" and it would Just Work.
  • [21:02:50] <Stu> let me go see what startx does
  • [21:03:04] <Jefro1> it'll probably give the same error that startxfce4 did
  • [21:03:24] <Jefro1> if you can poke around in the rootfs, look for /usr/bin/X as well as /usr/lib/X11
  • [21:03:45] <Jefro1> if neither of those are there, you have no X server installed. if they *are* there, then xfce isn't configured right.
  • [21:04:11] <Jefro1> at least, that's my understanding
  • [21:06:05] * RoHS (~RoHS@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:06:12] <Stu> i tried startx but it gave an error about not being able to create a cookie
  • [21:06:17] <Stu> ill go look for those 2 files
  • [21:07:38] <Jefro1> a cookie? that's... interesting
  • [21:08:08] <Jefro1> not the error I would have expected
  • [21:08:23] <Jefro1> but the fact that startx exists means that some portion of the X server is indeed installed.
  • [21:09:16] <Stu> well there is no /usr/bin/X
  • [21:09:26] <Stu> there was a /usr/lib/libx11something
  • [21:09:34] <Stu> but no regular usr/lib/X11
  • [21:10:24] <prpplague> RoHS: hey bud!
  • [21:10:35] <RoHS> hi
  • [21:10:40] <prpplague> RoHS: hows the "video" biz ?
  • [21:11:12] * tgall_foo ponders if he has a DOA beagleboard
  • [21:11:39] <_av500_> unlikely
  • [21:11:39] <tgall_foo> orange screen via hdmi but nothing out the serial cons
  • [21:11:46] <_av500_> check your cabling
  • [21:11:53] <_av500_> it is wrong
  • [21:12:40] <RoHS> good, trying to work on smaller projects
  • [21:12:47] <tgall_foo> that's what I've been thinking but I've tried two different boxes .. one via ttyUSB0/1 and now via a real ttyS0/1
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  • [21:14:05] <prpplague> RoHS: dandy
  • [21:14:18] * tgall_foo is so kicking himself for getting rid of a thinkpad t20 that had real serial ports on it
  • [21:14:27] <prpplague> RoHS: *cough* still hope'n SFE will start carrying the Trainer
  • [21:14:39] <_av500_> tgall_foo: check the cable between BB 10 pin and your serial
  • [21:14:41] <RoHS> I know.
  • [21:15:16] <_av500_> tgall_foo: and/or check the serial be connecting pin 2+3
  • [21:15:19] * eFfeM (~frans@j200125.upc-j.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [21:15:21] <_av500_> by
  • [21:15:28] <aszpain> whats the use of "boot.ini"? sometimes my environment is not readed from that file, someone has said me that u-boot has his own boot.ini and under some behaviours it loads it and refuses the one u put in the boot partition... is it true?
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  • [21:28:44] <Jefro1> Stu - it really sounds like X was not installed properly. Some package must be missing. unfortunately you have reached the culmination of my X kung fu. :) maybe someone else around with some Angstrom knowledge can help
  • [21:33:45] <mru> anyone know how the damn mpurate= thing is supposed to work this week?
  • [21:35:07] <mru> a kernel I build a couple of weeks ago works fine on a C0 board
  • [21:35:21] <mru> the one I built today doesn't do a thing with it on a C3
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  • [21:42:30] <ds2> arrg burnt bits
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  • [21:49:06] <robtow> camera on
  • [21:49:12] <_av500_> lights
  • [21:50:02] <mru> hmm, turning on smartreflex makes it work today
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  • [21:52:03] <_av500_> hmm indeed
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  • [21:54:02] <mru> on the other beagle, it was the other way around
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  • [22:29:24] <emeb> ds2: having a BBQ?
  • [22:29:42] <ds2> just an embedded one
  • [22:29:48] <ds2> a wide open one
  • [22:29:57] <emeb> mmm... embedded, wide-open BBQ...
  • [22:30:23] <emeb> something smoked?
  • [22:30:32] <ds2> bits and more bits
  • [22:30:43] <emeb> bits are easy to replace
  • [22:30:56] <ds2> I have to concede that opkg seems to do a decent job swapping bits around
  • [22:31:05] <ds2> no dribbling of bits all over the place
  • [22:31:22] <emeb> the trail of bitcrumbs
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  • [22:32:01] <mru> ds2: kinda like this? http://www.coolenjoy.net/bbs/data/multi/1271048754687/Nvidia_grill.jpg
  • [22:32:27] <ds2> mru: yes, just a tad bit more compact
  • [22:32:35] <mru> yes, embedded
  • [22:33:27] <emeb> The Jen-hsun Grille
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  • [23:22:20] <PythonPup> The beagleboard uses linux in all the examples I see. Is it safe to assume that if the computer I am working on and connecting to the beagleboard is also running Linux, that I will be able to develop. I am checking that that there are no dependencies on Windows. I don't run Windows, and I want to know that I'll be OK. TI seems very Windows oriented for tools. That is why I am asking.
  • [23:26:33] <thurbad> generally as long as the libraries you need exist for the OS you're using on the Beagleboard you'll be ok... you'll have to either cross compile on your desktop machine or compile natively on the Beagle (pretty slow)
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  • [23:32:05] <PythonPup> thurbad, that sounds like it might be OK. I guess I would like to hear from a developer who uses Linux to drive their beagleboard. Would that be you? I bought one of the 430 dev kits from TI and could not use it. It was only $10. I really don't want to waste $150.
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  • [23:32:57] <thurbad> are you looking at a specific tool? or just developing for the beagle in general?
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  • [23:33:39] <thurbad> probably most of the people in here use angstrom linux as their OS on the beagle
  • [23:34:59] <PythonPup> In general. I also wondered what most people put on the beagleboard. So, thanks for that info.
  • [23:36:03] <PythonPup> It will be reading a variety of sensors and either displaying the info or sending it upstream. It is more of a learning tool than anything else.
  • [23:39:10] <PythonPup> The hawkboard having a vga port makes it really tempting, but I think the much larger beagleboard community will make it the tool I choose to learn on.
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  • [23:44:45] <jevin> PythonPup, i ran my entire projects development in linux. i used angstrom for the BB's distro. it builds the entire system from source
  • [23:45:09] <jevin> not sure if you can even build angstrom from windows
  • [23:46:12] <PythonPup> thanks, jevin. That helps. I'll recommend we go with the beagleboard. This is just a small group of developers and we are doing this to learn.
  • [23:46:42] <jevin> also, lots of the other OMAP boards have similar hw to the beagleboard
  • [23:46:52] <jevin> and most of the peripherals are on the OMAP themselves
  • [23:47:46] <jevin> so youre probably not disadvantaging yourself much by using a different OMAP board. once linux is running on the board they should behave similarly
  • [23:48:36] <jevin> disadvantaging yourself in terms of your support base, that is
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  • [23:53:03] <PythonPup> I understand. That is good to know. Some boards I am looking at use other Arm processors, like the LPC2148, so I take it they are not as well supported.
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