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  • [00:24:57] <mib_g> i tried to reformat it and while re-extracting, it gives me same messages :No file found for various files
  • [00:25:04] <mib_g> any solution?
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  • [01:21:47] <jotroick> hi
  • [01:21:57] <jotroick> I NEED HELP WITH UBUNTU RUN ON BB
  • [01:22:13] <jotroick> CAN HELP SOMEONE??
  • [01:23:14] <SoulBlade> did you check the wiki
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  • [01:28:39] <jotroick> yes I CHECK THE WIKI
  • [01:28:51] <jotroick> BUT I HAVE MORE PROBLEMS
  • [01:29:07] <SoulBlade> stuck caps lock key?
  • [01:29:43] <jotroick> YES
  • [01:29:45] <Downix> SoulBlade, You have met the last person on the planet using a Teletype....
  • [01:29:46] <jotroick> SOORY
  • [01:29:48] <jotroick> SORRY
  • [01:30:03] <jotroick> BUT I HAVE THE PROBLEM WITH THE BOOT
  • [01:30:50] <jotroick> WHEN I START THE UBUNTU, I OBTAIN THE resULTS LIKE THIS http://widget.mibbit.com/pb/hXUcGU
  • [01:31:19] <jotroick> and I wait for someone hours and doesnt anything
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  • [01:32:34] <Stan-Dave> did you set your init=/bin/sh like was suggested?
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  • [02:02:53] <jotroick> mm ehre
  • [02:02:54] <jotroick> where
  • [02:02:59] <jotroick> in bootargs
  • [02:03:00] <jotroick> ?
  • [02:08:09] <Stan-Dave> yes
  • [02:09:21] <Stan-Dave> maybe
  • [02:09:34] <Stan-Dave> I actually don't know, I'm just repeating what I remember was said earlier.
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  • [02:12:59] <jotroick> excuse buy my pc reboot
  • [02:13:23] <jotroick> you can send to me adviceeeeeee
  • [02:13:35] <jotroick> again please
  • [02:15:52] <jotroick> i have a problem to run ubuntu on BB
  • [02:16:27] <jotroick> when I boot the result is http://widget.mibbit.com/pb/hXUcGU
  • [02:16:49] <jotroick> then I wait for some hours and doesnot happend anything
  • [02:17:02] <jotroick> can maybe help me?
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  • [02:22:03] <jotroick> ??????????????
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  • [03:41:16] <djlewis> ping sakoman_
  • [03:44:39] <Stan-Dave> so, I've finally successfully built the kernel module for my wifi adapter, I copy it to my SD card, I can insmod it, but when I ifconfig ra0 up, I get "SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not permitted"
  • [03:44:48] <Stan-Dave> any thoughts?
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  • [03:56:30] * djlewis just tried sakoman_ latest image. Can't get past login GUI.
  • [03:56:39] <djlewis> Any cures?
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  • [04:55:16] <sakoman_> djlewis: try tomorrow's image :-)
  • [04:55:58] <sakoman_> some upstream changes broke a number of things
  • [04:56:11] <sakoman_> I'm working on fixes right now
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  • [05:09:05] <lifeeth> Can someone point me to an howto to run the display off the svideo?
  • [05:09:20] <lifeeth> s/an/a
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  • [05:11:22] <lifeeth> khasim, ^
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  • [05:12:15] <khasim> lifeeth: hi
  • [05:12:56] <lifeeth> khasim, Hello - Can you help me out with running the board to send an out put to S-video
  • [05:13:13] <khasim> Did you follow the REV C Validation page?
  • [05:13:22] <lifeeth> khasim, I am from IITK and we got to about the beagle board contest from kshitij
  • [05:14:07] <lifeeth> khasim, I havent looked at it yet
  • [05:14:10] <lifeeth> looking now
  • [05:14:19] <khasim> http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/BeagleboardRevCValidation refer to 2nd test here
  • [05:14:48] <khasim> good luck for competition, let me know if you guys need any help - apart from announcing you as winner :)
  • [05:15:50] <lifeeth> khasim, :) - We are also looking into making a small hand held for equipment diagnostics
  • [05:19:11] <lifeeth> khasim, PM?
  • [05:19:49] <khasim> good.
  • [05:20:19] <khasim> Please feel free to call any time. Kshitij should have my number.
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  • [06:04:23] <ds2> okay, I can safely say the PSP LCD blows chunks
  • [06:08:00] <ds2> if anyone is interested in extra PCBs...
  • [06:08:22] * ds2 makes a note to not use that LCD in the future
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  • [06:39:03] <lifeeth> ds2, I am interested in the extra pcbs :)
  • [06:39:20] <lifeeth> ds2, What seems to be the problem with PSP screen?
  • [06:39:24] <ds2> lifeeth: are you in the US?
  • [06:39:35] <lifeeth> ds2, Nope.. But I can pay the shipping :)
  • [06:39:57] <ds2> lifeeth: if you are in EU, I can't ship it to you (the EU customs will seize it)
  • [06:40:10] <lifeeth> ds2, I am in India
  • [06:40:15] <ds2> the PSP LCD is too picky about the voltage
  • [06:40:52] <lifeeth> ds2, any luck running it
  • [06:40:54] <ds2> lifeeth: I donno what the rules are for shipping to India... do you know if India has RoHS requirements?
  • [06:41:02] <ds2> oh it works just fine
  • [06:41:23] <ds2> if I give a voltage right on
  • [06:41:32] <lifeeth> ds2, Nice :) - I will find out and get back to you.. it will save me a lot of trouble fabricating one
  • [06:41:52] <ds2> lifeeth: need the parts to go with it?
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  • [06:42:21] <lifeeth> ds2, PM?
  • [06:42:27] <ds2> lifeeth: I had planned to put together ready to run boards but right now, I am just thinking of selling off the extra PCBs and any parts
  • [06:42:29] <ds2> sure
  • [06:43:41] * midtown4 (n=krooked@68-185-95-94.dhcp.scrm.ca.charter.com) has joined #beagle
  • [06:45:38] <midtown4> Hey is there a remote (play/pause/volueme scaling) for mplayer/vlc that works flawlessly with the linux kernal?
  • [06:45:38] <midtown4> Thx ~dru
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  • [06:46:14] <lifeeth> midtown4, what do you mean by remote - an IRDA one
  • [06:46:41] <midtown4> infared i was guess it would be
  • [06:46:55] <ds2> You could try the LiRC stuff but I donno if anyone has tried it
  • [06:47:12] <midtown4> i have one i use on a desktop that is attached to a tvplayer through mPlayer, i was hoping to accomplish the same thing on other computers
  • [06:47:28] <lifeeth> midtown4, LiRC should work out well
  • [06:47:34] <midtown4> k thanks
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  • [07:10:01] <john3909> Anyone used CCSV4 with the Blackhawk BH-USB-560M for Linux Kernel Aware debugging?
  • [07:10:21] <john3909> on the BeagleBoard
  • [07:11:18] <john3909> As described in the article http://tiexpressdsp.com/index.php?title=Linux_Aware_Debug
  • [07:12:39] <suihkulokki> john3909: looking at the price tag of blackhawk, I don't think it's common in the community here..
  • [07:17:47] <john3909> suihkulokki: Oh, I'm not so sure. Some of these guys are consultants and get to use this equipment as part of their projects.
  • [07:25:05] <ds2> what do you need to debug?
  • [07:25:46] <ds2> drivers? startup code?
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  • [08:59:22] <henrinyk> Hi, I want to test my program on the beagleboard, which was developed on Windows opengl es 2.0 emulation. I have ?ngstr?m distribution running with sgx drivers on beagleboard and I have code sourcery crosscompiler on Linux host machine. What do I have to do to get this program to work on beagleboard? Obviously I have to compile it to arm, but do I need some libraries to get the acceleration to work and where do I get them? Thanks.
  • [09:00:29] * davidcb (n=Spot@m385e36d0.tmodns.net) has joined #beagle
  • [09:04:20] <methril|work> good morning
  • [09:06:47] * XorA|gone is now known as XorA
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  • [09:18:46] <koen> henrinyk: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-??ngstr??m
  • [09:20:54] <henrinyk> yes, I have compiled my ?ngstr?m distribution and it works... what do you mean by that?
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  • [09:29:46] <florian> good morning
  • [09:30:21] <florian> koen: the gtk recipe in dev used by angstrom breaks gnome-keyring
  • [09:30:41] <florian> koen: it lacks some staging
  • [09:32:37] <henrinyk> okay... what i am asking is that do i need to do something differently from basic arm compiling since this program uses sgx graphic acceleration?
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  • [09:35:34] * florian checkes if we can fix 2.14.2
  • [09:37:34] <ant_work> florian: ah...Package 'gdk-linux-fb-2.0', required by 'GTK+', not found
  • [09:37:56] <ant_work> that one
  • [09:38:15] <florian> ant_work: sorry... no, the gnome-keyring issue
  • [09:38:21] <ant_work> http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/public/logs/4897798.txt
  • [09:38:35] <ant_work> gnome-keyring failing for other reasons, then
  • [09:38:48] * florian wonders what might bull in gdkfb
  • [09:38:54] <florian> eh pull
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  • [09:40:49] <florian> ant_work: is the with angstrom?
  • [09:40:53] <ant_work> yes
  • [09:41:24] <florian> This looks like something is pulling a framebuffer gtk in...
  • [09:41:28] <ant_work> see I could build it one day before...
  • [09:41:37] <ant_work> yes..something in gpe-image
  • [09:41:49] <ant_work> or in x11-gpe-java-image
  • [09:41:55] <ant_work> one of the two
  • [09:42:07] <ant_work> x11-image is fine
  • [09:42:55] <florian> Ok... wel'll know soon. I'm just building gpe-image
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  • [09:54:12] <ant_work> florian: I somehow built gdk-pixbuf..together with libosso, cacaoh-native... this could have been the gpe-java image
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  • [09:56:27] <ant_work> florian: http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/builds/147330/
  • [09:57:29] <ant_work> btw note the nice time-shift (8hours) in the tinderbox logs...
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  • [10:14:23] <valhalla> I have a beagleboard that boots with angstrom; I've tried to change the bootargs to boot android on an SD, and something must have changed in the serial settings because I'm getting mostly garbage via minicom
  • [10:14:35] <valhalla> what can I try to check what happened?
  • [10:15:07] <lifeeth> valhalla, Try changing your minicom baudrate
  • [10:15:31] <valhalla> currently trying
  • [10:15:43] <valhalla> how do I set it back to something sensible on the bb?
  • [10:16:23] <lifeeth> I think that the android image you are using is set to run with that baud rate
  • [10:16:39] <valhalla> currently I'm getting garbage even without an SD
  • [10:17:05] <valhalla> actually mostly garbage: sometimes I get some text
  • [10:17:09] <lifeeth> You mean before the android boots?
  • [10:17:25] <valhalla> yes
  • [10:18:02] <lifeeth> valhalla, are you set to 115200?
  • [10:18:18] <valhalla> I've tried to boot the old angstrom image: that one does work, but I still get garbage in minicom)
  • [10:18:32] <valhalla> I had it at 115200, I'm currently trying some other speed
  • [10:19:00] <lifeeth> Are you able to see the u-boot upon start?
  • [10:19:39] <valhalla> sometimes some part of it, but most of the time that;s where I get garbage
  • [10:20:04] <valhalla> I'm back to 115200 so I can explain better
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  • [10:20:22] <lifeeth> You are using the stick u-boot image?.
  • [10:20:37] <valhalla> currently I have no SD in the BB
  • [10:20:56] <valhalla> I;ve turned it on and in minicom I just get ".."
  • [10:21:36] <lifeeth> keep the minicom open and then turn it on - to check if you are able to see the initial u-boot messages
  • [10:21:59] <valhalla> that's what I;m doing, no u-boot messages
  • [10:22:02] <lifeeth> You should be able to see them - if you are set at 115200 and you are not using a custom u-boot
  • [10:22:10] <lifeeth> valhalla, Then it might be an hardware issue
  • [10:22:10] <valhalla> I am
  • [10:22:39] <lifeeth> You mean you have a custom u-boot?
  • [10:22:49] <valhalla> no, I'm set at 115200
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  • [10:23:50] <lifeeth> valhalla, Then it is likely that you have an hardware issue
  • [10:24:12] <valhalla> the strange part of it is that it happened suddenly
  • [10:24:32] <valhalla> unless it is the cable
  • [10:26:05] <valhalla> the strange part is that angstrom is still booting no problem
  • [10:28:26] <lifeeth> Cable probably
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  • [10:30:58] <valhalla> err.. yes, very likely cable
  • [10:31:46] <valhalla> (the pin 3 cable has broken near the computer side)
  • [10:38:38] <valhalla> (that looks like an excellent reason for it not to work :) )
  • [10:40:02] <lifeeth> there goes your rx :)
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  • [11:54:09] <jkridner|work> good morning all
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  • [12:15:58] <koen> hey jkridner|work
  • [12:16:15] <khasim> jkridner|work: hi, pinging you on the other one as well :)
  • [12:19:05] <eFfeM> hi
  • [12:19:14] <eFfeM> koen how was your vacation?
  • [12:19:33] <eFfeM> it was quiet in #beagle while you were away :-)
  • [12:21:37] <koen> eFfeM: hot
  • [12:21:39] <AV500> gm
  • [12:21:52] <eFfeM> koen, where have you been then?
  • [12:22:14] <AV500> .ES, no?
  • [12:22:14] <khasim> eFfeM: true
  • [12:22:42] <koen> AV500: .es, yes
  • [12:22:49] <AV500> y.es
  • [12:23:05] <AV500> .no
  • [12:24:30] <eFfeM> :-)
  • [12:24:52] <eFfeM> all of # beagle thought you went to a country without internet :-)
  • [12:25:48] <AV500> the YL would have objected I guess
  • [12:26:12] <eFfeM> guess so
  • [12:26:27] <eFfeM> same with the Mrs here when we are on holiday
  • [12:27:04] <AV500> but now there's smartphones that you can use in secret :-)
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  • [12:54:59] <methril|work> koen: .ES where?
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  • [12:58:54] <koen> methril|work: barcelona
  • [12:59:28] <methril|work> koen: curiosity ;) (i'm located in Madrid)
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  • [13:02:44] <jkridner|work> dirk2: we have our first two approved projects for week 19 at http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/contest#Approved_projects
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  • [13:26:48] <mib_fnt6d8> The DVI output of my new beagleboard doesn't seem to work. I have tested my HDMI to DVI cable in combination with my DVI display before. Has anyone a clue?
  • [13:27:34] <eFfeM> do you have the right video settings ?
  • [13:27:53] <eFfeM> is there the beagleboard logo when you boot?
  • [13:28:02] <mib_fnt6d8> I have made the right settings
  • [13:28:16] <mib_fnt6d8> No there was no beagleboard logo when i boot
  • [13:28:49] <eFfeM> jkridner|work: the logo is there with the u-boot of a new c2 board, isn't it
  • [13:29:26] <eFfeM> mib_fnt6d8: you are using a monitor I assume (and not a tv)
  • [13:29:27] <mib_fnt6d8> I have a new c2 board but have never seen the logo
  • [13:29:44] <mib_fnt6d8> i am using a monitor....
  • [13:30:04] <eFfeM> hmmm
  • [13:30:17] <eFfeM> you have serial I assume
  • [13:30:44] <mib_fnt6d8> i have serial and am running minicom on it
  • [13:31:05] <eFfeM> ok just want to make sure that it was not a general error that things are not booting
  • [13:31:13] <eFfeM> we get all kind of questions in this group :-)
  • [13:31:19] <mib_fnt6d8> ok
  • [13:31:32] <Crofton|work> was someone trying to build linphone on beagle?
  • [13:31:37] <eFfeM> but frankly i have not really an idea
  • [13:31:46] <eFfeM> have you tried the tests on the c2 validation page?
  • [13:31:47] <jkridner|work> eFfeM: the C2 board does have a logo.
  • [13:32:16] <mib_fnt6d8> yes i did them with the angstrom distribution and flashing of some software...
  • [13:32:20] <eFfeM> jkridner|work: maybe i misphrased it, is there a logo on the video output when booting
  • [13:32:30] <mib_fnt6d8> no
  • [13:32:31] * eFfeM knows there is a logo on the board
  • [13:32:55] <eFfeM> afaik the validation tests the video too
  • [13:33:13] <mib_fnt6d8> thats correct
  • [13:33:27] <eFfeM> and they worked?
  • [13:33:34] <mib_fnt6d8> the svideo works but has a very poor signal
  • [13:34:24] <eFfeM> never tried s-video but at least that gives the idea that the video subsystem is working
  • [13:34:37] <mib_fnt6d8> ok
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  • [13:36:03] <mib_fnt6d8> do you have other ideas eFfem?
  • [13:37:53] <mib_fnt6d8> eFfeM: thanks for your time and help...
  • [13:38:30] <mib_fnt6d8> Are there other people having a clue?
  • [13:38:42] <eFfeM> no more ideas, sorry
  • [13:38:59] <mib_fnt6d8> Should I sent back the board?
  • [13:39:27] <mru> have you tried it with another monitor?
  • [13:39:42] <mib_fnt6d8> yes
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  • [13:44:39] <mib_fnt6d8> eFfeM/mru:thanks again
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  • [13:52:11] <jkridner|work> eFfeM: yes, the DVI outputs a logo on boot, but it is at a specific rate. it works with the pico projector, most dvi-d lcd monitors, and many hdtvs.
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  • [13:53:04] <djlewis> sakoman_ I read back and got your message to try todays image. I will, thanks.
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  • [14:15:50] <djlewis> ping sakoman_
  • [14:21:18] <sakoman_> djlewis: pong
  • [14:21:29] <djlewis> good morning sakoman_
  • [14:21:45] <djlewis> I got your msg from last night.
  • [14:21:50] <sakoman_> good morning!
  • [14:22:09] <djlewis> I see the files have yesterdays date in todays build.
  • [14:22:11] <sakoman_> I haven't tried this mornings build yet, so I don't know that it works
  • [14:22:38] <djlewis> I was going to save some write sycles on my SD if it was not ready ;)
  • [14:22:46] <sakoman_> The date is based on when the pull is done
  • [14:22:53] * lirtex (i=liorc@93-173-189-221.bb.netvision.net.il) Quit (Excess Flood)
  • [14:22:58] <sakoman_> I'll be testing in a few moments
  • [14:23:15] <djlewis> I did notice on console yesterday that my camera registered at boot. couldnt test it.
  • [14:23:55] <djlewis> I know you must be a busy guy, I have visited your WEB site.
  • [14:23:55] <sakoman_> that's progress :-)
  • [14:25:19] <sakoman_> writing the SD image right now (for Overo)
  • [14:25:29] <djlewis> drum roll....
  • [14:25:48] <sakoman_> it had the same issues, so I expect if I fixxed one the oter is fixed too
  • [14:26:21] <djlewis> makes sense..
  • [14:27:43] <djlewis> So i would only need to replace uImage and omap-xxx
  • [14:29:17] <sakoman_> the changes are all in the rootfs
  • [14:29:28] * khasim (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [14:29:47] <sakoman_> uImage is probably fine, but I always update the complete set
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  • [14:29:54] <sakoman_> just habit
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  • [14:31:00] <sakoman_> the amazingly slow first boot has begun
  • [14:31:27] <djlewis> last night, first time i un tarred omap it reached a loop on console that scrolled text.
  • [14:31:38] <djlewis> I had to reset to get control.
  • [14:31:53] <djlewis> Then it proceeded to configure normally.
  • [14:36:17] <djlewis> Watching storms roll to the east just above Arhansas now.
  • [14:36:21] <sakoman_> getting close . . . all looks normal so far
  • [14:36:39] <sakoman_> You're likely getting the lousy weather we had last week
  • [14:36:48] <sakoman_> Sunny & warm here now
  • [14:37:02] <djlewis> you are pacific?
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  • [14:37:28] <sakoman_> yes
  • [14:37:55] <djlewis> good thing you aren't down in southern California then.
  • [14:38:28] <sakoman_> no kidding! I had my fill of fires last year
  • [14:38:55] <djlewis> came close, did they?
  • [14:39:09] <sakoman_> less than a mile
  • [14:39:38] <djlewis> I know that feeling, I am surrounded by woods and they came within 500' a couple years back.
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  • [14:40:47] <sakoman_> djlewis: well, boot completed. there is no longer the login issue
  • [14:40:49] <sakoman_> but . . .
  • [14:41:03] <djlewis> but... I dont like the sound of that..
  • [14:41:04] <sakoman_> enlightenment seems to die on launch :-(
  • [14:41:24] <djlewis> wasn't my gspca add on was it?
  • [14:41:53] * Yuvi_ is now known as Yuvi
  • [14:42:08] <sakoman_> no, there were quite a few changes in upstream OE that caused a lot of breakage
  • [14:42:23] <djlewis> Oh, things out of your control..
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  • [14:43:03] <koen> sakoman_: I have an idea on how to fix e17 completely, just need some time to test it
  • [14:43:17] <djlewis> just when ya get it stable then comes along breakage.. :(
  • [14:43:20] * koen has 2000+ analog pictures to digitize currently
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  • [14:44:31] <sakoman_> koen: here's what I am seeing: http://pastebin.com/m6ba43e69
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  • [14:45:59] <sakoman_> koen: if you have ideas on the fix, I have time to test
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  • [15:29:00] <koen> sakoman_: give http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/OE/fix-evas.diff a spin
  • [15:31:50] * brolin (n=brolin@200.24.16.85) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [15:32:49] <sakoman_> koen: will do! thanks
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  • [15:48:43] <koen> sakoman_: I have another fix which is a bit neater, but it would be nice if you can confirm the current one works as well
  • [15:56:58] <sakoman_> koen: building now
  • [15:58:30] <koen> sakoman_: the neater patch is at http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/OE/fix-evas2.diff (revert the old one first)
  • [15:59:48] <sakoman_> koen: OK, I'll try that one next
  • [16:00:23] <sakoman_> multi-tasking so it will be a bit . . .
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  • [16:07:30] <mib_zmb8j9> jhj
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  • [16:36:32] <djlewis> koen: can I use your picture of BB on my WEB site? http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/3181365813/in/pool-beagleboard ?
  • [16:37:37] <koen> djlewis: it's CC-BY licensed
  • [16:37:41] * maelcum|konv (n=horst@141.20.47.46) has joined #beagle
  • [16:38:38] <koen> djlewis: click on the "some rights reserved" link to see what your options are
  • [16:38:51] <koen> the answer is very close to "yes, you can use it" :)
  • [16:39:17] <djlewis> well I can take y own picture. Yours has good lighting :)
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  • [16:41:04] <djlewis> I plan to add a BB image to my robotics.djlewis.us pagees.
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  • [16:43:19] <as_leep> koen, I'm after minimalist video code, I'm looking in the u-boot mainline but I'm lost, any suggestions?
  • [16:43:24] * as_leep is now known as ali_as
  • [16:46:27] * denix is back (gone 39:13:25)
  • [16:46:41] <ali_as> sakoman_, do you happen to be around?
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  • [16:49:38] <sakoman_> ali_as: yes
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  • [16:50:14] <ali_as> Any suggestions for where the video code is? Setting modes, setting the PLLs from a cold boot?
  • [16:50:33] * khasim (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) has joined #beagle
  • [16:50:44] <ali_as> I know the splash logo is missing from mainline but I'm not sure if the video code is.
  • [16:51:04] <sakoman_> there is no video code in mainline u-boot
  • [16:51:15] <ali_as> I tried to clone a copy from gitorious but it kept timing out.
  • [16:51:26] <sakoman_> everything is done in linux
  • [16:51:58] <sakoman_> that is strange - I haven't had any other reports of gitorious issues
  • [16:52:14] <ali_as> The splash patch seems to assume a screen mode, am I reading it wrong?
  • [16:52:50] <sakoman_> Don't know! I've never looked at the splash patch
  • [16:53:09] <sakoman_> IIRC they just stuff hard coded values into registers
  • [16:53:36] <sakoman_> but it was many, many moons ago when I looked at the original beagle u-boot
  • [16:53:38] <ali_as> Theres certainly a voodoo chant.
  • [16:54:01] <sakoman_> back then it was hex values stuffed into hex pointers :-)
  • [16:54:08] <ali_as> Where would I find the u-boot source that's currently supplied with the C2?
  • [16:54:33] <sakoman_> you'd have to check on beagleboard.org
  • [16:54:45] <sakoman_> TI doesn't use the mainline
  • [16:55:19] <sakoman_> I must admit to not paying attention to what ships on beagleboard
  • [16:55:59] <sakoman_> Sadly, I have enough trouble keeping track of my own work ;-)
  • [16:56:11] <koen> sakoman_: could you add rebasing the omap3-dev-usb branch to your (no doubt already long) todo?
  • [16:56:33] <koen> sakoman_: or do I need to poke someone else to do that?
  • [16:57:17] <ali_as> The elinux wiki says your u-boot git is for testing things that arn't ready for mainline yet.
  • [16:57:35] <sakoman_> koen: I took a look at that and decided it was too much work. Dirk and I agreed that the authors of the usb u-boot patches would be the best folks to do the merge :-)
  • [16:57:43] <koen> ah
  • [16:58:07] <koen> ddompe: could you have a look at rebasing the omap3-dev-usb branch ontop of the omap3-dev branch?
  • [16:58:10] <sakoman_> There were upstream changes that conflicted with stuff they did
  • [16:58:43] <sakoman_> And I didn't have the time to spend to learn how u-boot usb works :-)
  • [16:59:09] <ddompe> sakoman_, koen: I can do it
  • [16:59:18] <ddompe> probably over the week end
  • [16:59:24] <sakoman_> woo-hoo!
  • [16:59:28] <sakoman_> thanks ddompe :-)
  • [16:59:32] <ddompe> the omap3-dev is on your repo right?
  • [16:59:52] <sakoman_> yes - that and omap3-dev-usb
  • [16:59:52] <ddompe> I can't promise on testing, but I can do the rebase
  • [17:00:27] <ddompe> sakoman_: any hint on what's the procedure to do it (git-wise). I'm still mainly an svn guy
  • [17:00:34] <ddompe> should I give you patches for it?
  • [17:00:47] <sakoman_> yeah, patches would be nice
  • [17:01:12] <ddompe> ok, if by monday I haven't mail anything, just ping me
  • [17:01:31] <sakoman_> I pull the latest master, then checkout omap3-dev-usb and do a git merge master
  • [17:01:50] <ddompe> cool, thanks
  • [17:02:23] <sakoman_> there will be a bunc of conflicts, edit each conflicting file to fix, git add the fixed files, then do a git diff for the patches
  • [17:03:24] <ddompe> got it
  • [17:03:27] <ddompe> piece of cake
  • [17:03:49] <sakoman_> koen: I'm trying out each of your patches - one on each of two dev machines
  • [17:04:03] <sakoman_> first is going through "first boot" right now
  • [17:04:14] <sakoman_> other is building
  • [17:04:26] <ddompe> koen: do you want me to include on the re-base my DFU patches?
  • [17:04:34] * djlewis is on pins and needles...
  • [17:05:00] <djlewis> my momused to say that anyway ..
  • [17:05:21] <sakoman_> yeah, mine too :-)
  • [17:05:46] <koen> ddompe: yes please :)
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  • [17:07:48] <sakoman_> koen: patch #1 seems to work
  • [17:08:07] <geckosenator> hi
  • [17:08:30] <geckosenator> does anyone have a prebuilt kernel and modules I can try out on my debian system?
  • [17:08:44] <geckosenator> I built my own kernel, but apparently I was missing some important patches
  • [17:09:42] <sakoman_> koen: I agree that patch #2 is cleaner. will try that whe the build completes
  • [17:10:14] <ali_as> geckosenator, do you mean a prebuilt debian image for the board?
  • [17:10:30] <geckosenator> no I have debian installed
  • [17:10:33] <geckosenator> I just need a kernel with modules
  • [17:10:55] <geckosenator> I might be able to extract the modules from the kernel I"m using.. they are in a ramdisk
  • [17:11:40] <ali_as> Well, you've lost me.
  • [17:12:06] <geckosenator> hm
  • [17:12:13] <geckosenator> I have debian root filesystem already
  • [17:12:33] <ali_as> Ahh, and does that not need a debian kernel image?
  • [17:14:27] <ali_as> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian Read this?
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  • [17:15:43] <geckosenator> yes
  • [17:15:49] <geckosenator> that's where I got my kernel
  • [17:15:55] <geckosenator> but the modules are on the ramdisk
  • [17:16:06] <geckosenator> maybe I should just boot the ramdisk and copy the modules to the rootfs
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  • [17:18:25] <koen> sakoman_: patch #2 shows that OE had a bug which got shown a bit more clearly due to the e17 change upstream
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  • [17:23:49] * FuL|OUT is now known as fulgas
  • [17:23:51] <sakoman_> koen: build complete for patch #2, preparing miroSD card now
  • [17:24:06] * carlnorum (i=11ce0d1c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e42f2c9af3a143ba) has joined #beagle
  • [17:24:35] * koen is preparing a full sized SD for #2 now
  • [17:26:13] <carlnorum> Hi folks... I'm having some trouble with getting the USBHOST port to work on my beagleboard C2. We have a working EHCI stack all ready to go, but we're not seeing any reflection of port plug/unplugs in the EHCI registers. Am I missing a step, not clocking something? For some reason I seem completely unable to read the OTG and ULPI registers in the debugge.
  • [17:27:59] <geckosenator> ali_as: hmm, ther eare no modules :(
  • [17:28:35] <carlnorum> no modules?
  • [17:28:54] <carlnorum> oh sorry (been a while since I used IRC!)
  • [17:29:39] <geckosenator> it's been a while since I made sense
  • [17:30:07] * KosiNuss (n=tom@R0316.r.pppool.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [17:30:34] <carlnorum> hehe =)
  • [17:30:50] * djlewis has finished his ten cups of coffee.
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  • [17:37:37] <ali_as> carlnorum, what are you plugging into the host port?
  • [17:37:38] <carlnorum> I'm going to head back to the docs, I'll try to keep an eye on this window to see if any OMAP/USB/EHCI experts show up. Thanks folks!
  • [17:37:54] <carlnorum> We've tried a few things, a USB memory stick is the real goal.
  • [17:38:06] <ali_as> Does that support high speed?
  • [17:38:10] <carlnorum> We have a mouse as well, and a little monster looking thing that told us the port is powered, at least.
  • [17:38:11] <carlnorum> Yeah
  • [17:38:21] <carlnorum> It works on another board with an EHCI controller, so that should be fine.
  • [17:38:27] <carlnorum> Are there even any full-speed usb sticks out there?
  • [17:38:28] <ali_as> Mouse won't work without a high speed hub.
  • [17:38:35] <carlnorum> I don't really need to use the mouse
  • [17:38:47] <carlnorum> I just want to see the EHCI registers wiggle on a port connect/disconnect
  • [17:38:59] <maelcum|konv> djlewis: new kind of diet?
  • [17:39:28] <ali_as> carlnorum, might also help if you said something about the OS.
  • [17:40:12] <carlnorum> We're porting UEFI, http://www.uefi.org/
  • [17:40:26] <djlewis> no, just my normal morning 8-)
  • [17:40:33] <carlnorum> ali_as, with an eye towards using the beagle board as an ARM reference platform
  • [17:40:46] <ali_as> I know someone porting RISCOS and he's doing HOST support now but I'm unsure how far along he is.
  • [17:40:54] <carlnorum> We have a complete EHCI stack
  • [17:40:58] <carlnorum> that's no problem
  • [17:41:07] <ali_as> So does RISCOS I think.
  • [17:41:08] <carlnorum> and it's hooked up and talking to the registers
  • [17:41:17] <ali_as> Though formerly PCI attached.
  • [17:41:24] <carlnorum> yeah that's like ours
  • [17:41:36] <carlnorum> we have a shim that fakes out the PCI transactions and routes them to the memory mapped space.
  • [17:41:47] <sakoman_> djlewis: hopefully it is 10 cups of *good* coffee!
  • [17:41:53] <carlnorum> I think there's some piece I'm not properly turning on....
  • [17:42:14] <carlnorum> I went through the whole clock/power management chapter and turned on EVERYTHING I could find, but I still can't access the ULPI registers, so I think that might be part of the problem.
  • [17:42:36] * eFfeM (n=Frans@195-241-226-180.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  • [17:42:47] <djlewis> These days it comes to me by value but it will be rich Folgers or Maxwell House :)
  • [17:42:48] <sakoman_> carlnorum: have you reviewed the ehci code in linux-omap?
  • [17:43:00] <carlnorum> I would love to, but can't.
  • [17:43:05] * lirtex (i=liorc@93-173-189-221.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #beagle
  • [17:43:06] <carlnorum> UEFI is licensed BSD
  • [17:43:19] <carlnorum> so we can't even look at any GPL code while doing the development
  • [17:43:28] <carlnorum> or the lawyers will eat our brains.... =(
  • [17:43:28] <ali_as> Eww.
  • [17:43:52] <carlnorum> Such is life
  • [17:44:00] <djlewis> might not be bad if cooked properly :-$
  • [17:44:09] <ali_as> Hahahaha.
  • [17:44:33] <djlewis> I got to eat squirrel brains as a starving runt growing up in the country.
  • [17:44:49] <sakoman_> I'm spoiled by home roast - can't drink that other stuff
  • [17:44:54] <ali_as> I imagine it was more taumatic for the squirrel.
  • [17:44:57] <carlnorum> djlewis: sounds tasty....
  • [17:45:15] * Leon_Nardella1 (n=leon@200-161-14-111.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #beagle
  • [17:45:15] <djlewis> is to a straving runt :)
  • [17:45:46] <carlnorum> I guess my first question would be "what are the prerequisites for even reading the ULPI registers at all"
  • [17:46:11] <carlnorum> since I think I have all the clocks and power switches that are available to me turned on. I may be missing something, of course. The OMAP document is ENORMOUS
  • [17:47:00] * fulgas is now known as FuL|OUT
  • [17:47:11] <ds2> carlnorum: are you sure the pinmux is setup right? the current linux stuff requires uboot to setup the pinmux for the EHCI port
  • [17:47:14] * greyback (n=greyback@dhcp-892b7b54.ucd.ie) Quit ()
  • [17:47:31] <carlnorum> oh that's a good thing to look at.
  • [17:47:44] <carlnorum> I could certainly have port power, but not have the data lines muxed correctly.
  • [17:48:01] <carlnorum> Our current use case is too boot up the board to the uboot prompt and then load the EFI stuff directly into memory.
  • [17:48:07] <ds2> another thing to check is to stick a LA and see if there is any activity when you try to talk over ULPI
  • [17:48:18] <lirtex> Hello. I'm having trouble with using the beagle board in USB OTG host mode. I'm using revision b7. I made a mini-b to type A receptacle cable, I connect it to the board before powering it up, but the kernel still does not recognize USB host mode (cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode returns b_idle). I'm using debian-embedded kernel. What am I doing wrong?
  • [17:48:21] <carlnorum> So I am relying on uboot to do the gpio setup. Easily checked.
  • [17:48:40] <carlnorum> lirtex, the docs I read said that if you have a mini-b to type A cable you need to short some pins on the port
  • [17:48:59] <ds2> lirtex: yoou answered your own q... "mini-b to type A"..
  • [17:49:19] <ds2> shorting the id pin means you have turn a physical mini b into a mini A
  • [17:49:19] <carlnorum> lirtex, I think you want mini-A to A, or do the rework.... it was described in the FAQ
  • [17:49:43] <lirtex> ok, i'll read about it. Thanks.
  • [17:50:25] <sakoman_> koen: patch #2 also works, so I think that is the one to commit
  • [17:50:39] <carlnorum> ali_as, is there a pinspec spreadsheet for the board around? Or do I have to reverse engineer from the schematic?
  • [17:51:29] <ali_as> I don't know. I suspect the people at TI expected people to use their code.
  • [17:52:35] <ali_as> I'm just wondering if there is any muxing on the video devices done in u-boot that would explain a current video problem.
  • [17:52:47] <ali_as> (with RISCOS).
  • [17:53:32] <carlnorum> I'll go hunt down some documentation and see what happens. I don't expect that pin muxing would be causing me to be unable to read the ULPI registers though.
  • [17:53:45] <ali_as> We also have mixed licence source problems.
  • [17:54:35] <ali_as> Usually the devices work fine they just don't talk tot he outside world.
  • [17:54:40] * FuL|OUT is now known as fulgas
  • [17:55:05] <ali_as> But USB is not my area.
  • [17:55:23] * florian (n=fuchs@mofa2.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) has joined #beagle
  • [17:55:55] <maelcum|konv> reliable usb is not the bb's area either >:(
  • [17:56:21] <geckosenator> heh
  • [17:56:32] <carlnorum> maelcum|konv, well maybe we can help with that part.
  • [17:56:41] <sakoman_> carlnorum: the current mainline u-boot configures ehci phy pinmuxing properly
  • [17:56:59] <sakoman_> are you handling the phy reset line properly in your code?
  • [17:57:01] <maelcum|konv> carlnorum: if i could talk to one of the usb driver writers, i guess so.
  • [17:57:11] <ali_as> He can't read that source though sakoman.
  • [17:57:36] <maelcum|konv> i guess they'd have to give me some patches for debug output and/or i should try stuff they tell me.
  • [17:57:40] <sakoman_> he doesn't need to
  • [17:57:57] <sakoman_> since he is using mainline u-boot
  • [17:58:07] <carlnorum> yeah, so then the fact that I'm running u-boot should do it
  • [17:58:16] <carlnorum> so then I guess pin muxing is not the concern.
  • [17:58:26] <carlnorum> the phy reset line is a GPIO?
  • [17:58:35] <carlnorum> let me dig up a schematic here
  • [17:58:42] <sakoman_> yes, gpio147
  • [17:58:59] <carlnorum> I'll go read some registers - one moment
  • [17:59:32] <sakoman_> I also assume you've set up the 60 Mhz clock for ULPI
  • [17:59:57] <carlnorum> so port 4 pin 19...
  • [18:01:02] <sakoman_> and that you have enabled power to the PHY :-)
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  • [18:02:05] <carlnorum> the phy has power if the port has power from what I see on the schematic
  • [18:02:19] <carlnorum> and the port definitely has power
  • [18:02:40] <carlnorum> so it may be the ULPI clock - I can't read the registers, so it probably isn't clocked. I can't seem to find the bit that turns it on though
  • [18:03:03] * mrc3 (n=ddiaz@189.157.113.43) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [18:04:20] <ali_as> You probably need to setup a pll and spit it out
  • [18:04:24] <ali_as> ?
  • [18:06:37] * davidm2 (n=David@192.94.94.106) has left #beagle
  • [18:06:52] <carlnorum> ali_as, I believe that to be true, but I'll have to read some more to figure that out.
  • [18:07:02] <carlnorum> sakoman_, it definitely looks like that reset pin was not set up
  • [18:07:30] * mrc3_ (n=mrc3@nat/ti/x-d05cf78efa41efb4) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [18:07:38] <carlnorum> port4/pin19 aka gpio147 is showing me configured as input. I switched it to output high to remove the reset assertion, but I see the same behaviour.
  • [18:08:10] <carlnorum> actually, that doesn't seem to be working - it's reading back 0 in the input register still.
  • [18:09:51] * alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  • [18:11:20] <sakoman_> let me check and make sure 147 is correct
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  • [18:13:33] <carlnorum> it is
  • [18:13:38] <sakoman_> yes, indeed
  • [18:14:02] <sakoman_> what version of u-boot is your board running?
  • [18:14:22] <carlnorum> U-Boot 2009.01-dirty (Feb 19 2009 - 12:22:31)
  • [18:14:48] <sakoman_> should be fine
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  • [18:14:59] <carlnorum> I can't seem to read the pad config registers at 0x48002200 either
  • [18:15:13] <carlnorum> I was thinking the muxing might be bad for that GPIO... hrm clock troubles again yay
  • [18:15:56] <sakoman_> EHCI works fine with my builds, so I think u-boot pin mux is OK
  • [18:16:16] <sakoman_> I don't fuss with it at all in the kernel
  • [18:16:43] <carlnorum> ok well that's good news
  • [18:16:53] <carlnorum> but I clearly have some kind of clock problem, not being able to read these registers
  • [18:17:14] <carlnorum> I did have to turn the clock on to the USBHOST modules to access the EHCI registers, so there must be something missing for getting the ULPI going.
  • [18:17:15] <sakoman_> you could probe the board and make sure you see a cloc
  • [18:17:18] <carlnorum> I guess this 60 MHz clock?
  • [18:17:25] <sakoman_> should be
  • [18:17:47] <carlnorum> USB2HS_CLK on R111
  • [18:17:50] <carlnorum> let me dig up a scope
  • [18:18:34] <sakoman_> need to leave for a while now, but I think if you can verify that the reset and clock are OK, you should be able to read the registers
  • [18:18:44] <sakoman_> good luck!
  • [18:18:46] <carlnorum> yeah I'll look into it from that side of things.
  • [18:18:52] <carlnorum> Thanks for the help guys. I'll be in touch!
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  • [18:32:32] * brokenbrainedphi (i=48b89481@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ab3eb9bf8a7ae7a1) has joined #beagle
  • [18:33:12] <brokenbrainedphi> with Omap 3 having a delightful selection of interfaces
  • [18:33:43] <brokenbrainedphi> what are the possibilities of having a TVP7000 IC interfaced with beagleboard?
  • [18:35:14] <ali_as> carlnorum, where is that, I see R53 on sheet 4?
  • [18:36:23] <mru> brokenbrainedphi: what does that chip do?
  • [18:36:30] <ali_as> brokenbrainedphi, that looks high bandwidth.
  • [18:36:32] <mru> and what interface does it have?
  • [18:36:37] <brokenbrainedphi> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tvp7000.html
  • [18:36:38] <ali_as> It's a video digitiser.
  • [18:36:43] <brokenbrainedphi> video ADC
  • [18:37:20] <brokenbrainedphi> omap3 and tvp7000 are in my cellphone
  • [18:37:38] <mru> there's a phone with omap3 available?
  • [18:37:41] <ali_as> Omap3? Which one and what cellphone?
  • [18:37:54] <brokenbrainedphi> 3530
  • [18:38:11] <brokenbrainedphi> Moto q10 dev RTM4
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  • [18:39:07] * Leon_Nardella1 (n=leon@200-161-14-111.dsl.telesp.net.br) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  • [18:39:20] <brokenbrainedphi> was hoping to heave a breakout environment like the beagleboard, so I dont have to keep jtagging my phone while developing TV apps
  • [18:39:22] <ali_as> I think I see what your question is, you want to know how the chip is probably wired?
  • [18:39:29] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [18:39:33] <ali_as> Oh.
  • [18:39:39] <brokenbrainedphi> I know how is wired
  • [18:39:41] <brokenbrainedphi> heh
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  • [18:40:07] * ceyusa (n=ceyusa@91.117.99.155) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  • [18:40:10] <mru> does it use the camera input on the omap?
  • [18:40:19] <brokenbrainedphi> wondering if it was possible to make a daughterboard for the beagleboard to handle a TVP700X
  • [18:40:20] <mru> those pins are not accessible on the beagle
  • [18:40:26] <geckosenator> brokenbrainedphi: what is that
  • [18:40:38] <brokenbrainedphi> what is what?
  • [18:40:39] <mru> maybe you could use an overo
  • [18:40:52] <brokenbrainedphi> yuck
  • [18:40:56] <geckosenator> brokenbrainedphi: tvp700x
  • [18:41:03] <brokenbrainedphi> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tvp7000.html
  • [18:41:17] <ali_as> How is the chip wired then?
  • [18:41:22] <mru> brokenbrainedphi: yuck what?
  • [18:41:57] <brokenbrainedphi> Overo
  • [18:42:03] <mru> what's yuck about that?
  • [18:42:03] <brokenbrainedphi> Overo == yuck
  • [18:42:12] <ali_as> Ok, digital output, not that clever a chip.
  • [18:42:19] <ali_as> Camera input then.
  • [18:42:34] <koen> brokenbrainedphi: what's yuck about the overo?
  • [18:42:41] <brokenbrainedphi> BG656 output, clocked at the cap frequency
  • [18:42:55] <brokenbrainedphi> so for 720p, is 74.56Mhz
  • [18:43:13] <brokenbrainedphi> all breakouts on Overo are through 2 ports
  • [18:43:17] <brokenbrainedphi> == yuck
  • [18:43:24] <brokenbrainedphi> its a nightmare
  • [18:43:28] <mru> that's what makes it so small
  • [18:43:28] <brokenbrainedphi> I have a stack here
  • [18:43:41] <carlnorum> ali_as, I see a pulldown on the reset line R111. The clock I do see on R53.
  • [18:44:28] <brokenbrainedphi> Overo would be more attractive if it had a DaVinci on it at 750Mhz
  • [18:44:41] <brokenbrainedphi> instead of Omap353X
  • [18:45:07] <mru> some people are never satisfied...
  • [18:45:11] <ds2> hehe
  • [18:45:12] <brokenbrainedphi> lol
  • [18:45:22] <brokenbrainedphi> I can't pull your chain?
  • [18:45:37] <brokenbrainedphi> If I wasn't happy with Overo, I wouldn't have a stack of them...
  • [18:45:45] <brokenbrainedphi> its nice...
  • [18:45:47] <mru> if you don't like the overo, don't buy the overo
  • [18:45:49] <mru> it's that simple
  • [18:45:49] <ali_as> We can make flushing noises if that helps.
  • [18:45:52] <brokenbrainedphi> but not for a hobbiest'
  • [18:46:29] <brokenbrainedphi> RGB565*
  • [18:46:31] <brokenbrainedphi> Sorry
  • [18:47:23] <bobkatzz> koen - successfully got my first SD card to boot ( standard Angstrom etc) now I want to take your random image file and get GNU Radio installed - you mentioned the other day how to do that but I can't seem to find it in the logs (I did find the "dd" part but not the part where you say where to untar it and install) can you retell?
  • [18:48:47] <ali_as> carlnorum, is the code ou are working on public yet?
  • [18:48:50] <brokenbrainedphi> dd if=/pathtoimagefile of=/pathtosddevice
  • [18:49:20] <carlnorum> ali_as, unfortunately no. You *can* download a UEFI implementation for free, but it doesn't have the ARM support yet.
  • [18:49:35] <carlnorum> ali_as, we do have approval from the lawyers to start contributing stuff back
  • [18:50:18] <brokenbrainedphi> how long before you think TI will open up the codecs?
  • [18:50:32] <brokenbrainedphi> if* they will open up the codecs
  • [18:50:35] <ali_as> I was just thinking in terms of one of us looking at the code and suggesting what might be missing.
  • [18:50:37] <carlnorum> ali_as, but ARM isn't a full-fledged member of the UEFI spec yet - it's very x86/itanium oriented right now. A future version of the spec will support ARM, but it's probably only avaiable to forum members.
  • [18:50:49] <brokenbrainedphi> Dirac would be a sexy thing to have available
  • [18:51:00] <mru> dirac is useless
  • [18:51:09] <mru> btw what's uefi?
  • [18:51:14] <carlnorum> ali_as, well the code right now is *extremely* sparse. So probably everything is missing. I have a scope ready to go and test these clocks out. So that's the steps we can take. I have a TI contact who's investigating for us as well.
  • [18:51:16] * mru has heard of uefa...
  • [18:51:21] <carlnorum> mru, http://www.uefi.org/
  • [18:51:24] <ali_as> If I'm honest carl, I'm not sure I see the need for uefi.
  • [18:51:38] <ali_as> Particually on embedded chipsets.
  • [18:52:11] * mib_o2w9vn (i=55b2527e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d297edfa65c6a4c) has joined #beagle
  • [18:52:23] <brokenbrainedphi> Unified Extensible Firmware Interface
  • [18:52:26] <bobkatzz> thanks brokenbrainedphi - that part I got ( 'dd if=sdimage of=/dev/sdX' <---- koen's )but there was an instruction as to where to untar the random-f53978ae-image-beagleboard.tar.bz2 file
  • [18:52:37] * finsprings (n=finsprin@64.212.175.249) has joined #beagle
  • [18:52:41] <brokenbrainedphi> essentially, a smartboot replacement for grub, for diskless systems
  • [18:52:42] <carlnorum> ali_as, we ship tens of millions of ipods with UEFI on 'em, so I think there's clearly a use
  • [18:52:54] * mib_o2w9vn (i=55b2527e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d297edfa65c6a4c) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [18:53:03] <mru> most arm boards seem to use u-boot or custom loaders
  • [18:53:18] <carlnorum> ali_as, it gives HUGE advantages for manufactuing and diagnostics frameworks, since we can codeshare to the max with a real linker/loader but without OS abstractions making hardware access difficults.
  • [18:53:28] <finsprings> Hi. I am getting an error building angstrom beagleboard-demo-image, at libwnck: "configure: error: gdk-pixbuf-csource executable not found in your path - should be installed with GTK" anyone know how to get around this?
  • [18:54:05] <carlnorum> ali_as, so EFI on ARM is here to stay, but the problem is that Apple can't give out hardware to the forum as a reference platform, so we're trying to use the BeagleBoard as a cost-effective option.
  • [18:55:46] <brokenbrainedphi> Well, in my opinion, if it cannot be used on unsupported systems, it is not "Unified" it is "Distinct" and "Seperated"
  • [18:56:48] <ali_as> The thing that bothers me the most is that like most things it was started on a specific system and then intended to be universal across architectures afterwards.
  • [18:57:00] <brokenbrainedphi> the same as saying that a blind person has the same use for a Television, as for a Radio, it's merely to entertain his ears...
  • [18:57:22] <carlnorum> ali_as, yeah that was very obvious when I did the original port to ARM
  • [18:57:52] <brokenbrainedphi> wait till they start playing with BE MIPS64....
  • [18:57:59] <brokenbrainedphi> the fun will REALLY start then
  • [18:58:01] <ali_as> You've had to jump up and down on the carpet a few times to flatten out untidy lumps then :)
  • [18:58:06] <carlnorum> ali_as, I'm not sure the forum has realized the kind of concessions they need to make to be useful for embedded systems.
  • [18:58:17] <brokenbrainedphi> umm
  • [18:58:18] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [18:58:20] <carlnorum> ARM is a forum member though.
  • [18:58:37] <carlnorum> so there is hope. Our goal is to get some of the ARM stuff open sourced, so that vendors can write some drivers for us
  • [18:58:47] <carlnorum> so it's largely selfish from my point of view =)
  • [18:58:53] <brokenbrainedphi> Final code block in a flash pointing to the workspace entry works fine for me
  • [18:59:55] <ali_as> Luckily I don't have to deal with gpl/bsd/cddl licence incompatability problems.
  • [19:00:04] <carlnorum> That is the biggest pain.
  • [19:00:12] <carlnorum> And you can imagine how picky our lawyers are.
  • [19:00:19] <brokenbrainedphi> I have 3 different boot models using a routine I made IPTR(uint32 *referenceaddress);
  • [19:00:33] * sakoman_ doesn't have to imagine it, he lived it :-)
  • [19:00:38] <carlnorum> wheeeee
  • [19:00:41] <ali_as> Actually, I can't but I know I'd hate to be in your position.
  • [19:00:44] <brokenbrainedphi> work fine on EVERY CPU I have ever coded on
  • [19:01:10] <brokenbrainedphi> ST20, MipsLE, ARM, Conexant, Intel....
  • [19:01:47] <ali_as> How did you find the st20?
  • [19:01:52] <ali_as> I love that chip.
  • [19:01:52] <brokenbrainedphi> crap
  • [19:01:59] <brokenbrainedphi> memory is slow
  • [19:02:00] <ali_as> It's insane.
  • [19:02:05] <brokenbrainedphi> everything else is nice
  • [19:02:14] * lifeeth (n=praneeth@unaffiliated/lifeeth) Quit ("Up .....Up and Awayyyyyyyy... Atom Atom Ant....")
  • [19:02:19] <carlnorum> Is there a pdf of the layout somewhere?
  • [19:02:21] <brokenbrainedphi> having high GPIO count is sexy
  • [19:02:45] <brokenbrainedphi> STm7101, is INSANENENENE
  • [19:02:57] <ali_as> This must be a set top box?
  • [19:03:08] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [19:03:22] <brokenbrainedphi> STm7101 is FOR a set top box, but no need one to use it
  • [19:03:37] <brokenbrainedphi> at $11 a chip, it comes in handy for testing ideas
  • [19:03:54] <ali_as> They just sell them!
  • [19:03:54] <brokenbrainedphi> with 350MIPS perfomance... its a steal
  • [19:04:14] <brokenbrainedphi> who?
  • [19:04:17] <sakoman_> carlnorum: I'm trying to figure out if we've met in real life
  • [19:04:18] <ali_as> ST.
  • [19:04:23] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [19:04:31] <brokenbrainedphi> Digikey can order them for you
  • [19:04:44] * mru hates st20
  • [19:04:49] <brokenbrainedphi> lol
  • [19:04:51] <ali_as> Ahh. STM are usually a bit tight about giving out reference manuals.
  • [19:04:59] <bobkatzz> brokenbrainedphi - Found the instr (they were on Koens' link - image builder) "This raw SD card image has its vfat partition populated with the bootloader and kernel, but has an empty ext3 partition. You can extract the tarball to that partition to make it ready to boot."
  • [19:05:00] <brokenbrainedphi> which one you want?
  • [19:05:25] <mru> 7101 isn't st20 though afaik
  • [19:05:30] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [19:05:31] <mru> should be sh-4/st40
  • [19:05:32] <brokenbrainedphi> st40
  • [19:05:33] <ali_as> st40?
  • [19:05:39] <brokenbrainedphi> ya
  • [19:05:39] <mru> st40 == sh-4
  • [19:05:41] <brokenbrainedphi> ST40
  • [19:05:44] <ali_as> Yeah.
  • [19:05:45] <brokenbrainedphi> ya
  • [19:05:52] <brokenbrainedphi> same shite
  • [19:05:52] <bobkatzz> so do I take the files in the SD card image and copy them in the correct order onto the SD card and then boot with it?
  • [19:05:57] <mru> also a weird architecture
  • [19:06:02] <brokenbrainedphi> Still stolen Transputer engine
  • [19:06:11] <ali_as> Eh?
  • [19:06:30] <ali_as> Hitachi SH4 a transputer?!
  • [19:06:45] <bobkatzz> and then "dd" over the tar ball and extract it to ext3? correcto?
  • [19:06:46] <brokenbrainedphi> ST20-c1, ST20-c2, ST-200, ST40 is transputer engine
  • [19:06:52] <muriani> bobkatzz: you mount the ext3 partition, and just untar the tarball to it
  • [19:07:08] <ali_as> I don't think you are right there.
  • [19:07:10] <bobkatzz> oh (thanks muriani)
  • [19:07:23] <muriani> dd the image, then mount the ext3 and extract the tarball
  • [19:07:27] <mru> st20, st200, and st40 are all very different
  • [19:07:28] <muriani> that's how I understand it's done.
  • [19:07:31] <brokenbrainedphi> Dont get me started on SuperH
  • [19:07:36] <ali_as> ST40 even has a different debug interface to ST20.
  • [19:07:41] <brokenbrainedphi> ya
  • [19:07:52] <mru> st200 is a weird vliw thing
  • [19:07:55] <ali_as> ST20 DCU3 is the best debug interface I've ever seen on a chip.
  • [19:07:55] <brokenbrainedphi> instead of DCU, its DCU-3
  • [19:08:03] <brokenbrainedphi> yes
  • [19:08:06] <brokenbrainedphi> supersexy
  • [19:08:13] <carlnorum> sakoman_, I think so - you used to run the team that became Andy Grignon's right?
  • [19:08:13] <mru> the st20 debugger is the only one I've seen that crashes the host pc
  • [19:08:18] <ali_as> It's not on ST40 though.
  • [19:08:19] <brokenbrainedphi> lol?
  • [19:08:20] <bobkatzz> my understanding of the image (which is up for criticism B^) is that the image is what you boot from - no?
  • [19:08:21] <ali_as> HAhahaha.
  • [19:08:24] <carlnorum> sakoman_, I was in iPod for a long time working for Steve B.
  • [19:08:35] <sakoman_> Yeah, I thought so!
  • [19:08:37] <ali_as> mru, have you used it through USB or Ethernet?
  • [19:08:38] <carlnorum> sakoman_, Now over working in IL6 on EFI in general.
  • [19:08:45] <mru> ali_as: both
  • [19:08:48] <ali_as> USB is a bit flakey.
  • [19:08:52] <mru> ali_as: usb *always* reboots the host
  • [19:08:56] <bobkatzz> so I would already have to be booted to dd the image over - do I have to reboot then?
  • [19:08:59] <brokenbrainedphi> yes
  • [19:08:59] <mru> ethernet doesn't kill the pc outright
  • [19:09:01] <sakoman_> carlnorum: new boss?
  • [19:09:03] <mru> but it ain't stable either
  • [19:09:04] <brokenbrainedphi> USB == bad idea
  • [19:09:11] <muriani> bobkatzz: basically, when you dd the image, it shold have the partition table and the kernel in a vfat partition
  • [19:09:13] <carlnorum> sakoman_, yeah. In Derrick Carty's org.
  • [19:09:21] <muriani> this is before you even touch the beagle
  • [19:09:26] <brokenbrainedphi> only the STMC V2 ever really worked well over USB, and it still reboots PC
  • [19:09:44] <sakoman_> carlnorum: been gone too long, don't know him
  • [19:09:48] <ali_as> I have to admit to giving up on the Osprey debugger recently and wiring some debugging routines in C.
  • [19:10:01] <bobkatzz> ok - so I'm adding that from my PC to the SD card without being booted on the BB? ok
  • [19:10:02] <brokenbrainedphi> although
  • [19:10:04] <carlnorum> sakoman_, yeah I'm relatively new over here too - no idea how longhe's been around.
  • [19:10:09] <muriani> then when you've dd'd the image, mounth the ext3 partition that's on the SD card, and then extract the tarball
  • [19:10:41] <ali_as> STMC V2?
  • [19:10:48] <brokenbrainedphi> the ST20 was one of the few CPU's ever made that the debugging interface could be used, while the chip itself was OUT of debug mode by setting a sparse WPTR
  • [19:10:50] <mru> st microconnect?
  • [19:10:52] <brokenbrainedphi> Yes
  • [19:11:07] <brokenbrainedphi> the Silver one, not the white metal junky one
  • [19:11:19] <ali_as> I have a white one :(
  • [19:11:22] <mru> there's one of those on my desk at work
  • [19:11:23] <brokenbrainedphi> I have both here
  • [19:11:24] <bobkatzz> ok muriani - I'll try that - thanks
  • [19:11:25] <mru> the silver
  • [19:11:35] <mru> don't need to use it thankfully
  • [19:11:41] <brokenbrainedphi> heh
  • [19:11:48] <ali_as> Old technology in mine, it's an ST20TP4.
  • [19:11:50] <brokenbrainedphi> I use them every day
  • [19:11:54] <mru> the board it arrived with already had u-boot flashed
  • [19:12:18] <brokenbrainedphi> I hate the silver one, but it's the most stable once you get it right
  • [19:12:46] <ali_as> Any idea what the chipset is in it?
  • [19:13:07] <brokenbrainedphi> only thing I HATE about the STMC-20TP4, is the power supply weighs more than my car
  • [19:13:27] <mru> it is massive
  • [19:13:29] <ali_as> Big black brick?
  • [19:13:29] <djlewis> bobkatzz: if it is working correctly the 'dd' will place MLO, u-boot-bin and uImage in dos partition.
  • [19:13:33] <brokenbrainedphi> ya
  • [19:13:42] <ali_as> I like that, it really solid.
  • [19:13:50] <brokenbrainedphi> ya
  • [19:13:55] <brokenbrainedphi> a solid 20lbs
  • [19:14:03] <mru> give me a lauterbach and I'm happy
  • [19:14:28] <brokenbrainedphi> @mru: whats your job?
  • [19:14:40] <mru> set top box development
  • [19:14:44] <brokenbrainedphi> same
  • [19:14:55] <ali_as> Considering how small a load the connect is it is a bit of an overkill on the power supply.
  • [19:15:09] <brokenbrainedphi> been working lately with ALi 6303
  • [19:15:28] <brokenbrainedphi> want to shoot my boss for choosing it
  • [19:15:34] <ali_as> HDTV is killing off the st20. I'm quite sad about that.
  • [19:15:46] <brokenbrainedphi> but at $3 a chip in lots of 1000, cant kill it
  • [19:15:49] * mru is thrilled
  • [19:16:05] * likewise (n=chatzill@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [19:16:16] <brokenbrainedphi> WTF was the idea behind the 5105?
  • [19:16:19] <ali_as> MIPS is making something of a comeback in UK set top boxes.
  • [19:16:24] <brokenbrainedphi> its not a 5100
  • [19:16:33] <brokenbrainedphi> and its not a 5518
  • [19:16:36] <brokenbrainedphi> so WTF?
  • [19:16:55] <mru> what is it?
  • [19:17:00] <brokenbrainedphi> and if it was such a horendous failure... whats with the 5119?
  • [19:17:17] <brokenbrainedphi> ST20-c1, 200Mhz Mpeg2
  • [19:17:24] * finsprings (n=finsprin@64.212.175.249) has left #beagle
  • [19:18:17] <brokenbrainedphi> the fun came when I got ALi to open the source to the ALI-SDK
  • [19:18:25] <ali_as> c1, not c2!
  • [19:18:31] <brokenbrainedphi> exactly
  • [19:18:35] <ali_as> c1 is horrendous.
  • [19:18:40] <brokenbrainedphi> exactly
  • [19:18:47] <mru> mips grabbed some land thanks to broadcom
  • [19:18:56] <brokenbrainedphi> grr
  • [19:19:00] <mru> broadcom seem to be ahead of the game in hd chips
  • [19:19:01] <ali_as> bcm7038, fun chip.
  • [19:19:12] <mru> know that chip...
  • [19:19:14] <brokenbrainedphi> I have the dev board here for that
  • [19:19:25] <ali_as> STM released a few early stm7xxx chips for HD and they were a bit of a poor effort.
  • [19:19:29] <brokenbrainedphi> comes with a 1.5" lcd
  • [19:19:31] <mru> just don't go too close to the reference drivers
  • [19:19:46] <mru> 7109 barely cuts it
  • [19:19:54] <brokenbrainedphi> 7109 is 7101 light
  • [19:20:10] <mru> I can't remember all those last digits
  • [19:20:16] <brokenbrainedphi> ok
  • [19:20:19] <mru> 7111 is better
  • [19:20:23] <brokenbrainedphi> 0 is top of the line
  • [19:20:37] <brokenbrainedphi> 1 is high grade entry level
  • [19:20:44] <brokenbrainedphi> 5 is reduced cost
  • [19:20:53] <ali_as> Which digit?
  • [19:20:55] <brokenbrainedphi> 9 is please dont buy me, your devs will shoot you
  • [19:20:58] <brokenbrainedphi> last
  • [19:21:07] <brokenbrainedphi> any even number is good
  • [19:21:17] <ali_as> sti5514 was classic.
  • [19:21:27] <mru> ugh
  • [19:21:28] <brokenbrainedphi> 5514 was king for a long time
  • [19:21:42] <brokenbrainedphi> I have a DVD player here with that chip inside
  • [19:21:44] <ali_as> 5516 was a slightly crippled version for the US market with poorer IDE.
  • [19:21:51] <brokenbrainedphi> yeppppppp
  • [19:22:00] * katier (n=a0270521@nat/ti/x-e4b955ef8cc97030) Quit ("Leaving.")
  • [19:22:01] <mru> far too many 5517 and 5528 around our place
  • [19:22:05] <brokenbrainedphi> 5518 was same as 5516 with 0 IDE
  • [19:22:05] <ali_as> Both snazzy DCU3 which was brand new.
  • [19:22:16] <ali_as> Noooo.
  • [19:22:30] <ali_as> I think 18 was DCU2 an older thing, no?
  • [19:22:35] <brokenbrainedphi> yes
  • [19:23:04] <brokenbrainedphi> missing the additional GPIO, and the lower speed debug, and smaller memory footprint, locked out the ability to use DCU3
  • [19:23:07] <ali_as> Whats the DV player with the 5514?
  • [19:23:21] <ali_as> DVD.
  • [19:23:24] <brokenbrainedphi> ION DV500, Walmart toy
  • [19:23:44] <ali_as> Ok, NTSC, I'll give it a miss.
  • [19:23:47] <brokenbrainedphi> even has a J-tag port
  • [19:24:04] <ali_as> Cool feature.
  • [19:24:20] <ali_as> Easier to fix firmware problems/reprogramming.
  • [19:24:32] <ali_as> Not that most repairers have connect boxes.
  • [19:24:38] <brokenbrainedphi> sad thing is the thing had 16MB ram, and 8MB flash, and the second half of flash was FF'd out, and the second bank of 8MB was unused
  • [19:25:05] <Batko_Marto> Hey guys, I'm trying to build a C source file that I made that uses pkg-config in the make process. How can I put it in a recipe that would automatically build it for me for the beagle?
  • [19:25:19] <brokenbrainedphi> Bootloader just copied / uncompressed the RCU into ram, and jumped in
  • [19:25:29] * katier (n=a0270521@nat/ti/x-89b28bef805ed9d3) has joined #beagle
  • [19:25:30] <mru> brokenbrainedphi: through lots of sweat and tears
  • [19:25:44] <mru> err Batko_Marto
  • [19:26:00] <brokenbrainedphi> thanks, I was confused
  • [19:26:03] * mru curses nick completion
  • [19:26:03] <Batko_Marto> yeah i figured
  • [19:26:54] <brokenbrainedphi> 7109 has a shat SATA interface
  • [19:27:00] <brokenbrainedphi> as opposed to PATA
  • [19:27:24] <Batko_Marto> the way i'm doing it now is that i manually compile it on the beagle after i get it running. But I'd like it to be done automatically
  • [19:27:33] <ali_as> I miss the old parallel TS interface.
  • [19:27:46] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [19:27:52] <brokenbrainedphi> I meant for HD access
  • [19:27:59] <brokenbrainedphi> duallies all have both
  • [19:28:00] <ali_as> I know.
  • [19:28:04] <Batko_Marto> mru: any clue how would i go about it or at least to get started?
  • [19:28:09] <brokenbrainedphi> 5100 has both
  • [19:28:29] <mru> Batko_Marto: look at some recipe that does something similar
  • [19:28:31] <brokenbrainedphi> Batko_Marto: not without knowing what you were doing, no
  • [19:29:44] <likewise> any HD encoder chips you guys know of?
  • [19:29:50] <Batko_Marto> that's what i was trying to find but i'm not sure which one. I guess there's gonna be quite a bit of searching now
  • [19:30:41] <mru> likewise: intel core i7 ;-)
  • [19:30:57] <ali_as> likewise, what do people use HD encoders for? Who uses analogue HD?
  • [19:31:10] <brokenbrainedphi> http://widget.mibbit.com/pb/Xt3qoS <-- ahh those were the days
  • [19:31:17] <bkero> I use HD encoders, go from bluray to x264
  • [19:31:29] <bkero> I got x264 encoding going pretty fast :)
  • [19:31:40] <mru> likewise: which meaning of encoder did you intend?
  • [19:31:46] <brokenbrainedphi> i posted about one earlier
  • [19:31:50] <brokenbrainedphi> TVP700X
  • [19:33:10] <brokenbrainedphi> likewise: did you mean transcoder?
  • [19:33:37] <brokenbrainedphi> See Mobilygen MG3500
  • [19:33:42] <likewise> encoder mostly
  • [19:33:48] <brokenbrainedphi> Encoder how?
  • [19:33:48] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: Ah I just joined
  • [19:33:58] <likewise> h.264 encoder, 1080p :-)
  • [19:34:03] <brokenbrainedphi> ehem
  • [19:34:09] <brokenbrainedphi> which step?
  • [19:34:32] <mru> print("Pretending to checksum ROM image ");
  • [19:34:35] <mru> wtf?
  • [19:34:35] <brokenbrainedphi> Conversion to digital, entropy reduction, Compression?
  • [19:34:41] <brokenbrainedphi> lol
  • [19:35:18] <brokenbrainedphi> ASK ST
  • [19:35:18] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: complete h.264 standard, which starts with digital 4:2:0 or 4:2:2
  • [19:35:21] <brokenbrainedphi> its theirs
  • [19:35:28] <ali_as> HAahahaha.
  • [19:35:44] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: there is lots of semiconductor company's having such silicon
  • [19:35:54] <brokenbrainedphi> likewise: Trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do...
  • [19:36:28] <brokenbrainedphi> Do you mean CAPTURE?
  • [19:36:30] <brokenbrainedphi> Or
  • [19:36:31] * dirk2 (n=dirk@p5B041F55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("Konversation terminated!")
  • [19:36:43] <likewise> like the MG3500, but then up to 1080p60
  • [19:36:48] <brokenbrainedphi> Do you mean Compress (make usable by viewer)
  • [19:37:03] <brokenbrainedphi> what the hell?
  • [19:37:16] <koen> sakoman_: did you try the pm kernel yet on the overo?
  • [19:37:17] * likewise (n=chatzill@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [19:37:19] <ali_as> likewise, silicon h264 encoders in my limited experience are all very bad.
  • [19:37:28] <koen> sakoman_: Im really liking the extra 100MHz :)
  • [19:37:45] * likewise (n=chatzill@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [19:37:52] <brokenbrainedphi> Likewise
  • [19:38:01] <brokenbrainedphi> Let me let you in on a little secret
  • [19:38:01] <ali_as> likewise, silicon h264 encoders in my limited experience are all very bad.
  • [19:38:11] <likewise> re
  • [19:38:19] <brokenbrainedphi> there is NO 60FPS 1080p
  • [19:38:29] <brokenbrainedphi> 24, 25, 30
  • [19:38:31] <brokenbrainedphi> thats it
  • [19:38:37] <ali_as> Umm.
  • [19:38:45] <ali_as> Not as a braodcast standard.
  • [19:38:55] <ali_as> But 1080p60 is supported by HDMI.
  • [19:39:20] <brokenbrainedphi> 60FPS 1080p would require 3.4Gbps transfer, and thats insane
  • [19:39:23] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: yes there is.
  • [19:39:25] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: ok, I think you are a few years behind on technology then
  • [19:39:27] <likewise> 1080p60 is a SMPTE standard.
  • [19:39:29] <likewise> MP as in Motion Picture
  • [19:39:32] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: 3.0 Gbps to be exact
  • [19:39:41] * Yuvi (n=yuvi@resnet-241-44.resnet.umbc.edu) Quit ()
  • [19:39:43] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: we make equipment for it, for five years now
  • [19:39:51] <brokenbrainedphi> ok
  • [19:39:53] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: so never mind
  • [19:40:06] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: sorry for sharing my secret :-)
  • [19:40:14] <brokenbrainedphi> Name a source of video currently that can offer 1080p video without conversion from a lower standard
  • [19:40:22] <ali_as> RED ONE ;)
  • [19:40:26] <brokenbrainedphi> because even RED's cameras only do 30
  • [19:40:29] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: like a CAMERA maybe
  • [19:40:49] * bobkatzz_theMe (i=187f0da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-de698158517c8b70) has joined #beagle
  • [19:41:03] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: let me google: http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_svt_multiformat_v10_tcm6-43174.pdf
  • [19:41:03] <brokenbrainedphi> 30p is 120i
  • [19:41:21] <likewise> you're a troll right?
  • [19:41:24] <ali_as> 30p is the same rate as 60i.
  • [19:41:33] <bobkatzz_theMe> koen - you there?
  • [19:41:49] <ali_as> RED ONE is a 4k camera, I'm almost sure it can do 1080p60.
  • [19:42:17] <mru> the RED cameras don't encode h264
  • [19:42:25] <mru> they use some jpeg2k variant
  • [19:42:28] <mru> undocumented
  • [19:42:32] <ali_as> Cineform.
  • [19:42:33] <brokenbrainedphi> yes
  • [19:42:43] <mru> intra-only
  • [19:42:47] <brokenbrainedphi> RED one uses a AES encrypted Jpip
  • [19:42:53] <brokenbrainedphi> I have the keys here
  • [19:43:03] <ali_as> JPIP?
  • [19:43:15] <brokenbrainedphi> subset of Jpeg2k
  • [19:43:19] <ali_as> Ahh.
  • [19:43:37] <brokenbrainedphi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPIP
  • [19:44:07] <ali_as> I thought Cineform was the basis of redcode.
  • [19:44:48] <ali_as> But now I think about it, I don't have any evidence.
  • [19:45:27] <brokenbrainedphi> I worked with Pixelexis to reverse engineer the REDCODE
  • [19:45:27] <ali_as> Was the AES the reason that curruption in the early cameras resulted in ruined footage?
  • [19:45:39] <brokenbrainedphi> idk
  • [19:45:53] <brokenbrainedphi> all I know is they changed the keys in the firmware 15
  • [19:46:08] <ali_as> I wonder why they encrypted.
  • [19:46:14] <brokenbrainedphi> and I was paid to recover the new keys
  • [19:46:16] <mru> how do you use the files if they are encrypted?
  • [19:46:34] <brokenbrainedphi> how do you use the files without RED's application?
  • [19:46:59] <ali_as> Maybe they are trying to protect details of the myserterium.
  • [19:47:04] <mru> you'd add support to ffmpeg of course
  • [19:47:53] <brokenbrainedphi> or, keep the debayering aspect hidden so noone knows that the whole thing is... nm
  • [19:48:17] <ali_as> Oh?
  • [19:48:24] <brokenbrainedphi> nothing
  • [19:48:27] <brokenbrainedphi> NDA's suck
  • [19:48:42] <ali_as> Damnit that sounded juicey.
  • [19:49:02] <brokenbrainedphi> but, i digress
  • [19:49:04] <mru> the files are raw pixels from a sensor with a bayer filter
  • [19:49:23] * beagle_whisperer (i=187f0da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-31b6091bd35389e0) has joined #beagle
  • [19:49:24] <mru> to use it sensibly, you must debayer the pixels
  • [19:49:30] <brokenbrainedphi> 1080p/60 is future, not current, unless everything changed during my coffebreak
  • [19:49:45] <ali_as> I know what debayering is.
  • [19:50:12] <ali_as> I'm just interested to know what is unusual about mysterium debayering.
  • [19:50:16] <brokenbrainedphi> so why is the debayer function in RED's REDCODE, a simple loop, doing nothing...
  • [19:50:22] <brokenbrainedphi> GD nda's
  • [19:50:47] <ali_as> Does the FPGAs in the camera not do the debayering?
  • [19:50:54] <brokenbrainedphi> :)
  • [19:51:41] <brokenbrainedphi> f*** it, i dont work there anymore anyway
  • [19:51:44] <brokenbrainedphi> also
  • [19:51:45] <likewise> brokenbrainedphi: future for whom?
  • [19:51:49] <ali_as> Lol.
  • [19:51:57] <brokenbrainedphi> the blue is normalized during the same step
  • [19:52:26] <brokenbrainedphi> reducing the need for white balance
  • [19:52:43] <beagle_whisperer> muriani - more on the SD card files - still not sure how the *sd.img.gz file works does it get unzipped on the card or the card boots from it - tnx
  • [19:54:16] <ali_as> brokenbrainedphi, I'm trying to scrape together what I know in my head, is this for RED CODE RAW?
  • [19:54:42] * beagle_whisperer (i=187f0da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-31b6091bd35389e0) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  • [19:54:56] <ali_as> The RED ONE was out of my price range (unsurprisingly). I bought a 5D2 to play with and I'm hoping for 25p and manual controls.
  • [19:55:31] <brokenbrainedphi> likewise: nm, i failed, I have the mouth spots today, I concede... tis true, there are currently 8Kx3.7K captures, and are due for mainstream currently
  • [19:56:13] <ali_as> It certainly seems like 1080p50/60 won't be broadcast for at least 20 years.
  • [19:56:21] <brokenbrainedphi> if ever
  • [19:56:38] <ali_as> 1080i is an abomination.
  • [19:56:47] <brokenbrainedphi> 60p is 120i
  • [19:57:08] <ali_as> Not following you there.
  • [19:57:24] <ali_as> 60psf = 120i?
  • [19:57:28] <likewise> I predict we have 1080p50 broadcasts in 1 year
  • [19:57:38] <brokenbrainedphi> bandwidth necessary for 60p would be same as 120i
  • [19:57:55] <ali_as> I'm not convinced that is true.
  • [19:57:59] <likewise> I am
  • [19:58:24] <likewise> not many, and the critical mass will take much longer
  • [19:58:29] <ali_as> The motion information becomes less as the number of frames increases.
  • [19:58:29] <brokenbrainedphi> uk? likewise ?
  • [19:58:46] <likewise> uk, jpn
  • [19:59:00] <ali_as> Who would broadcast 1080p50 in the UK?
  • [19:59:07] <brokenbrainedphi> BBC?
  • [19:59:08] <brokenbrainedphi> LOL
  • [19:59:21] <ali_as> BBC are happy with 1440x1080.
  • [19:59:22] <brokenbrainedphi> sorry
  • [19:59:37] <ali_as> They released whitepapers saying 720p was all the public would ever need.
  • [19:59:40] * Yuvi (n=yuvi@130.85.56.86) has joined #beagle
  • [20:00:01] <brokenbrainedphi> 720p is better here in the staes in appearance than 1080i
  • [20:00:03] * bobkatzz_theMe (i=187f0da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-de698158517c8b70) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  • [20:00:06] * bobkatzz (i=187f0da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ac194afa8b20fe39) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  • [20:00:09] <brokenbrainedphi> because of interframe tearing
  • [20:00:22] <brokenbrainedphi> states*
  • [20:01:41] <mru> HD in the US often looks worse than SD
  • [20:01:52] <mru> they use way too low bitrate
  • [20:02:05] <brokenbrainedphi> heh
  • [20:02:09] <ali_as> Have U.S. moved from MPEG2 yet?
  • [20:02:27] <brokenbrainedphi> ATSC is Mpeg2 subset
  • [20:02:29] <brokenbrainedphi> so no
  • [20:02:33] <mru> atsc is mpeg2
  • [20:02:35] <ali_as> Yuck.
  • [20:02:37] <mru> satellite uses h264 a lot
  • [20:02:40] * davidm1 (n=david@nat/ti/x-6e1cde4c3532f7aa) has joined #beagle
  • [20:02:56] * mru works on directv stuff
  • [20:02:58] <brokenbrainedphi> h.264 AVC +PAFF
  • [20:03:09] * brokenbrainedphi use to be a Dish pirate
  • [20:03:14] <ali_as> BSKYB use h264 but they recently cut the bitrate.
  • [20:03:30] <mru> brokenbrainedphi: thanks, that helps pay my salary
  • [20:03:31] * davidm1 (n=david@nat/ti/x-6e1cde4c3532f7aa) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [20:03:35] <ali_as> From cira 20Mbit to <12Mbit.
  • [20:03:40] <brokenbrainedphi> eesh
  • [20:03:55] <mru> for 720p 10Mbps should be enough
  • [20:03:58] * davidm1 (n=david@192.94.94.105) has joined #beagle
  • [20:03:59] <mru> if the encoder is good
  • [20:04:06] <ali_as> This is 1080i.
  • [20:04:09] * davidm1 (n=david@192.94.94.105) has left #beagle
  • [20:04:44] <ali_as> A lot of channels are upscaling SD though most of the time.
  • [20:05:01] <likewise> ali_as: which pays my salary :-)
  • [20:05:18] <mru> upscaled sd is the silliest thing ever
  • [20:05:54] <brokenbrainedphi> Sillier than clowns that honk horns on other clown's butts?
  • [20:05:55] <Animule> lol butts
  • [20:06:18] <ali_as> Upscaling could be done better, by recontructing the resolution from multiple frames.
  • [20:06:27] * Leon_Nardella (n=leon@200-161-14-111.dsl.telesp.net.br) Quit ("Leaving.")
  • [20:06:36] <ali_as> But thats heavy processing.
  • [20:06:37] <mru> upscaling can be done on the playback side
  • [20:06:51] <ali_as> Worse though, since you have compression.
  • [20:06:56] * Leon_Nardella (n=leon@200-161-14-111.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #beagle
  • [20:06:56] <djlewis> upscaling and down scaling so actors look better than they really do.
  • [20:07:01] <brokenbrainedphi> 3D upscaling works ok...
  • [20:07:35] <brokenbrainedphi> but most upscalers do interframe blending... with a gausian sharp filter... which sucks
  • [20:08:16] <brokenbrainedphi> technically referred to as "line doubling"
  • [20:08:21] <mru> whatever the ps3 does, the result is pretty good
  • [20:08:33] <brokenbrainedphi> Ps3 does 3d upscaling
  • [20:08:51] * fischer (n=tfischer@fischerfamily.org) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [20:09:14] <geckosenator> doesn't it have to rerender it?
  • [20:09:31] <brokenbrainedphi> heh
  • [20:09:34] <brokenbrainedphi> ??
  • [20:09:38] * fischer (n=tfischer@fischerfamily.org) has joined #beagle
  • [20:09:42] <geckosenator> heh
  • [20:10:02] <brokenbrainedphi> 3d upscaling works like this
  • [20:10:02] <likewise> 3d = spatiotemporal, not 3d triangles
  • [20:10:18] <geckosenator> ok
  • [20:10:19] <geckosenator> well
  • [20:10:20] <brokenbrainedphi> take 8 interlaced frames
  • [20:10:32] <djlewis> sakoman_ I see a time stamp change on omap3-desktop. Is it there yet?
  • [20:10:40] <geckosenator> brokenbrainedphi: ok now what?
  • [20:10:42] <brokenbrainedphi> determine the differences in all the frames in 8x8 pixel boxes
  • [20:10:51] <geckosenator> ok
  • [20:10:54] <brokenbrainedphi> and expand the differences into 16x16 boxes
  • [20:11:03] <geckosenator> it doesn't use image recognition?
  • [20:11:13] <brokenbrainedphi> and you have the appearance of doubling the resolution
  • [20:11:15] <geckosenator> to recreate the depth in the 3d world?
  • [20:11:25] <brokenbrainedphi> :headslap:
  • [20:11:31] <geckosenator> heh
  • [20:11:38] <geckosenator> I see what you are saying
  • [20:11:40] * ali_as ROFL.
  • [20:11:42] <geckosenator> but it's not nearly as good
  • [20:12:12] <geckosenator> plus your way is noisy isn't it?
  • [20:12:24] <brokenbrainedphi> its not my way
  • [20:12:31] <brokenbrainedphi> thats how it works
  • [20:12:32] <geckosenator> since you are using the differences of the frames
  • [20:12:41] <brokenbrainedphi> well
  • [20:12:49] <brokenbrainedphi> lets look at it in perspective
  • [20:12:52] <djlewis> I always want resolution so I could see a ahir on a gnat's rear at 10 feet.
  • [20:12:53] <geckosenator> when you expand the differences you still lose resolution there
  • [20:13:05] <geckosenator> djlewis: but very small view angle?
  • [20:13:05] <djlewis> If I wanted to.
  • [20:13:09] <ali_as> There might be but the frames are linked.
  • [20:13:10] <brokenbrainedphi> if there is noise in the original, than noise will be introduced into the new render
  • [20:13:14] <geckosenator> djlewis: that's how my eyes work so I already ahve it
  • [20:13:23] <geckosenator> djlewis: but they can move really fast and accurate too
  • [20:13:34] <djlewis> hee hee.
  • [20:13:36] <ali_as> Since 1 I frame is made to generate up to half a second of video.
  • [20:14:04] <brokenbrainedphi> up to 5
  • [20:14:10] <brokenbrainedphi> up to 5 seconds
  • [20:14:34] <brokenbrainedphi> AVC allows 20 b frames per i frame
  • [20:14:41] <ali_as> I wouldn't want to watch that channel. Might be true for video clips on a PC.
  • [20:14:43] <geckosenator> brokenbrainedphi: well what if you had a video which showed a person, then looked away, then came back to them.. you could use the previous "information" about how the person looked to enhance the resolution of them as much as possible
  • [20:15:12] <brokenbrainedphi> in a perfect world, yes
  • [20:15:20] <geckosenator> or anything else the image processor could see
  • [20:15:43] <geckosenator> since 1000's of frames of one object would give a lot of information
  • [20:15:45] <brokenbrainedphi> even better
  • [20:16:01] <geckosenator> and if they are rotated around it, even more
  • [20:16:11] <ali_as> Noone encodes for that gecko, since if you change the channel you don't have that information.
  • [20:16:38] <geckosenator> ali_as: well my idea is you keep that information for the whole encoding
  • [20:16:39] <brokenbrainedphi> could use the texture rendering portion of the GPU to keep cached copies of the data acquired during the last presentation of a "person" or other object... and refer to it in the codec...
  • [20:16:55] <geckosenator> they have codecs that sit on top of opengl?
  • [20:17:06] <brokenbrainedphi> :headslap:
  • [20:17:07] <ali_as> That would work for a clip on PC.
  • [20:17:13] <geckosenator> it would be quite cool
  • [20:17:21] <geckosenator> like mp3 vs mod
  • [20:17:42] <brokenbrainedphi> would be like a cross between mod and mpeg
  • [20:17:53] <geckosenator> brokenbrainedphi: wait, is that me slapping your head, or you slapping mine?
  • [20:17:57] <brokenbrainedphi> would technically be a gentic codec
  • [20:18:04] <brokenbrainedphi> me slapping my own
  • [20:18:04] <geckosenator> gentic?
  • [20:18:11] <geckosenator> oh, even better
  • [20:18:11] <brokenbrainedphi> Genetic
  • [20:18:16] <muriani> I want to build a beltclip computer when Vuzix released the new AR glasses
  • [20:18:34] <ali_as> muriani, what resolution?
  • [20:18:35] <geckosenator> I got some of those glasses
  • [20:18:48] <geckosenator> I couldn't wear them for more than 30 minutes before it strained my eyes too much
  • [20:19:08] <geckosenator> and I have good vision normally, no need to ruin it
  • [20:19:14] <geckosenator> they were 800x600
  • [20:19:30] <muriani> ali_as: they're probably 640x480
  • [20:19:36] <muriani> but it's see-through
  • [20:19:43] <brokenbrainedphi> like a hud?
  • [20:19:46] <muriani> s-video input
  • [20:19:47] <muriani> yes.
  • [20:19:55] <muriani> Augmented reality FTW :D
  • [20:19:57] <brokenbrainedphi> thats teh sex
  • [20:19:59] <geckosenator> the problem is the screen is like 1" from your eyeball
  • [20:20:11] <geckosenator> so it's nearly impossible to make glasses in focuse for everyone
  • [20:20:15] <muriani> it's also fully configurable for your IPD
  • [20:20:20] <geckosenator> for the whole area of the screen
  • [20:20:22] <sakoman_> djlewis: my build machine is chugging away, the images will appear there over the next couple of hours
  • [20:20:25] <brokenbrainedphi> Ipood...
  • [20:20:30] <muriani> that's the thing, you can adjust ir per person
  • [20:20:31] <muriani> *it
  • [20:20:54] <geckosenator> yes, but still only parts of the screen are in focus
  • [20:20:58] <muriani> ok
  • [20:21:04] <geckosenator> I could never get the whole screen perfectly in focus
  • [20:21:09] <muriani> but that's *normal*
  • [20:21:10] <geckosenator> like, maybe half of it
  • [20:21:18] <geckosenator> well it strains your eyes since they aren't use dto it
  • [20:21:21] <djlewis> sakoman_: I noticed, the images just disappeared. :)
  • [20:21:24] <sakoman_> djlewis: and of course the desktop image will be one of the last to arrive since it is so big :-)
  • [20:21:25] <muriani> everything in your field of vision isn't in focus all the time anyway
  • [20:21:31] <muriani> I dunno
  • [20:21:37] <geckosenator> they give a message to your brain to change the shape of your eyeball to correct for it which is "wrong"
  • [20:21:38] <muriani> I'll give it a shot
  • [20:22:08] <muriani> see, I can play things like the Virtual Boy (which many complained about for the same reasons) for hours
  • [20:22:23] <muriani> I just have the IPD set properly.
  • [20:22:23] <sakoman_> djlewis: time to go outside & play while my machine works ;-)
  • [20:22:29] <geckosenator> well the only way to really fix it would be to use a mirror with servo actuators
  • [20:22:35] <brokenbrainedphi> IPD?
  • [20:22:37] <djlewis> sakoman_ sounds like a good plan..
  • [20:22:39] <geckosenator> so you can adjust the screen better
  • [20:22:41] <muriani> inter-pupil distance
  • [20:22:47] <brokenbrainedphi> oh
  • [20:22:48] <muriani> adjust the distance between the displays
  • [20:22:55] <brokenbrainedphi> i thought you mistyped Ipod
  • [20:22:57] <brokenbrainedphi> lol
  • [20:23:03] <sakoman_> djlewis: I'm sure you will let me know if you run into any more issues!
  • [20:23:06] <muriani> no, you just mistyped iPod :)
  • [20:23:06] <sakoman_> good luck!
  • [20:23:13] * mib_xylda2 (i=56885b29@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-caecd97d6ea30aec) has joined #beagle
  • [20:23:14] <brokenbrainedphi> no
  • [20:23:19] <brokenbrainedphi> i typed IPOOD
  • [20:23:24] <brokenbrainedphi> like toilet
  • [20:23:31] * mib_xylda2 (i=56885b29@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-caecd97d6ea30aec) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [20:23:35] <muriani> you still mistyped it then.
  • [20:23:38] <djlewis> sakoman_: Yup.
  • [20:24:12] <brokenbrainedphi> http://www.pointlessandboring.org/PandB/images/avatars/avatar_stevie_ipood.jpg
  • [20:24:15] <brokenbrainedphi> nah
  • [20:24:19] <brokenbrainedphi> I typed it right
  • [20:24:54] <muriani> 15:13 < brokenbrainedphi> i thought you mistyped Ipod
  • [20:25:09] <muriani> that's not ipood :p
  • [20:25:11] * niclas (n=n-anderb@nat/ti/x-0137e6712b881f8b) Quit ()
  • [20:26:41] <brokenbrainedphi> http://comunidad.uem.es/blogfiles/epuertas/ipod_toilet_paper_dispense.jpg <-- iPood
  • [20:27:48] * brokenbrainedphi (i=48b89481@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ab3eb9bf8a7ae7a1) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  • [20:28:05] * BrokenBraindPhil (i=48b89481@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b7e8b22a117cfcb9) has joined #beagle
  • [20:28:10] <BrokenBraindPhil> oops
  • [20:29:20] <ali_as> wb.
  • [20:30:36] <BrokenBraindPhil> thanks
  • [20:34:19] <BrokenBraindPhil> so
  • [20:34:24] <BrokenBraindPhil> back to my question
  • [20:35:09] <BrokenBraindPhil> if I add a TVP700X to my project will I be able to process 720p video with it? or is OMAP3 at 600Mhz a little slow?
  • [20:36:01] <BrokenBraindPhil> hmm, geckosenator got quiet
  • [20:36:06] <ali_as> Early days for optimising the video codecs.
  • [20:36:24] <ali_as> I'm not sure they even use the DSP.
  • [20:36:43] <BrokenBraindPhil> well
  • [20:36:46] <ali_as> You won't be able to wire a 7000 to the beagle.
  • [20:36:55] <BrokenBraindPhil> hmm
  • [20:36:59] <BrokenBraindPhil> why not?
  • [20:37:00] <ali_as> Were you planning to stream to SD and read back?
  • [20:37:27] * Yuvi (n=yuvi@130.85.56.86) Quit ()
  • [20:37:28] <BrokenBraindPhil> I was planning a video transport for DOD
  • [20:37:43] <ali_as> As far as we can tell, the 7000 spits out a digital signalwhich probably goes into an OMAP3 camera input.
  • [20:37:50] <muriani> I think there's gstreamer-dsp
  • [20:38:10] <muriani> which will handle the more popular codecs, not sure how fast.
  • [20:38:11] <BrokenBraindPhil> camera input is inaccessible I take it?
  • [20:38:13] <ali_as> The camera input isn't available on the beagle, pins are physically not connected.
  • [20:38:20] <muriani> Ah.
  • [20:38:24] <muriani> I see, nvm.
  • [20:38:38] <BrokenBraindPhil> can camera input be wired up ?
  • [20:38:52] <BrokenBraindPhil> Or is the BGA inaccessible from the bottom?
  • [20:39:01] <ali_as> Inaccessable.
  • [20:39:02] <BrokenBraindPhil> or, did they skip a few balls?
  • [20:39:12] <BrokenBraindPhil> shoddy #$%^
  • [20:39:27] <ali_as> The beagles not perfectfor everyone.
  • [20:39:39] <BrokenBraindPhil> what about the overo?
  • [20:39:42] <ali_as> I wanted on board ethernet.
  • [20:40:06] <ali_as> But I'm not complaining for the money.
  • [20:40:13] <BrokenBraindPhil> I will never understand why the most wanted features are left out... when they are IN THE FRIGGIN CHIP
  • [20:40:29] <BrokenBraindPhil> the PHY is built in, only needs the magnetics
  • [20:40:33] <ali_as> But who would be buying a beagle and connecting a camera interface?
  • [20:40:43] <BrokenBraindPhil> umm...
  • [20:40:47] <ShadowJK> aren't webcams cheaper anyway
  • [20:40:49] <BrokenBraindPhil> why ask....
  • [20:40:54] <ali_as> I don't think there is an ethernet PHY.
  • [20:40:58] <BrokenBraindPhil> DV capture
  • [20:41:31] <ali_as> I don't think theres even an ethernet module on the OMAP3.
  • [20:42:30] <ali_as> To leave the camera interface open you'd have to have some sort of LVDS interface.
  • [20:42:42] <BrokenBraindPhil> USBOTG module on the 3530 has 4 pins can be configured as USB, or PHY
  • [20:43:27] <ali_as> I need to look at the docs.
  • [20:44:04] <BrokenBraindPhil> 12pin 8 bit SDR ULPI
  • [20:45:25] <BrokenBraindPhil> writel(0x1008, &regs->sysconfig); /* Configure the PHY as PHY interface is 12-pin, 8-bit SDR ULPI */ sr32((void *)&regs->interfsel, 0, 1, 1);
  • [20:46:16] <ali_as> Thought about spending the extra money for an EVM?
  • [20:46:24] <ali_as> Zoom or whatever?
  • [20:46:26] <BrokenBraindPhil> Wouldn't be me
  • [20:48:05] <BrokenBraindPhil> Iphow is Mistrals?
  • [20:48:10] <BrokenBraindPhil> how is Mistrals?
  • [20:49:34] <ali_as> I can't figure out what the PHY is for, not USB?
  • [20:52:00] <ali_as> I think it's a USB PHYS.
  • [20:53:23] <BrokenBraindPhil> i think so too
  • [20:53:29] * BrokenBraindPhil needs sleep
  • [20:54:12] <ali_as> Its odd for TI to not include a ethernet module.
  • [20:54:43] <BrokenBraindPhil> very
  • [20:55:08] <ali_as> But if the target was mobile phones and portable video players.
  • [20:55:26] <BrokenBraindPhil> PVP's may need ethernet
  • [20:56:34] * jconnolly is now known as jconnolly|away
  • [21:01:52] * ScriptRipper (n=mmohring@opensuse/member/MartinMohring) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [21:03:02] <mru> omap3 targets phones and PDAs
  • [21:03:06] <mru> no need for ethernet
  • [21:03:20] <mru> or sata, or the other things people bitch about
  • [21:04:55] <ali_as> Oooh, SATA would have been good ;P
  • [21:04:59] <geckosenator> yeah
  • [21:05:01] <geckosenator> and more ram
  • [21:05:09] <geckosenator> and pci-e
  • [21:05:14] <djlewis> lots and lots of ram.... mmmm.
  • [21:05:18] <maelcum|konv> yeah
  • [21:05:31] <geckosenator> i'm fine with usb
  • [21:05:34] <maelcum|konv> usb disks are not an issue imho
  • [21:05:44] <maelcum|konv> but lack of memory is
  • [21:05:51] <geckosenator> they should make PoPoP
  • [21:05:56] <djlewis> non-flash
  • [21:06:08] <geckosenator> yeah, or just make ones without rom
  • [21:06:34] <djlewis> Darn this Mono and NUnit.Framework missing.
  • [21:07:25] <muriani> I don't need onboard ethernet for what I want to do with the Beagle
  • [21:07:39] * maelcum|konv (n=horst@141.20.47.46) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [21:08:23] <geckosenator> usb->ethernet?
  • [21:09:12] <djlewis> isn't USB 2 EHCI technically faster than 100BT
  • [21:09:38] <ali_as> Yup.
  • [21:10:52] <geckosenator> but not 1000BT
  • [21:10:55] <muriani> YEAH
  • [21:11:02] <muriani> HOLY CRAP CAPSLOCK
  • [21:11:27] <muriani> I'd use usb->ethernet at first, and then go to wifi
  • [21:12:01] <muriani> maybe do some tethering with my phone, for mobile data access for AR
  • [21:12:34] <djlewis> as in Arkansas?
  • [21:12:41] <muriani> augmented reality
  • [21:12:47] <muriani> AR as opposed to VR
  • [21:12:51] <geckosenator> I go usb->wifi
  • [21:12:52] <djlewis> oops ...
  • [21:12:53] <geckosenator> much easier
  • [21:13:03] <muriani> geckosenator: I would, right
  • [21:13:04] * ddompe (n=ddompe@200.122.155.113) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  • [21:13:07] <djlewis> thought I had a neighbor for a moment there.
  • [21:13:14] <muriani> that's a while away though
  • [21:13:15] * bobkatzz (i=187f0da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7f807f6f42668f22) has joined #beagle
  • [21:13:19] * Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) Quit ("^C")
  • [21:13:20] <muriani> djlewis: next state over :p
  • [21:13:38] <djlewis> lots of them next over.
  • [21:13:42] <muriani> although a much larger state than yours :)
  • [21:13:52] <djlewis> tejas
  • [21:13:58] <muriani> aye.
  • [21:14:48] <muriani> I think arkansas is only 8 or so hours from where I am, if that
  • [21:14:59] <bobkatzz> muriani - I have tired several "twists" on getting the two files created on koen's page onto the SD card but not sure what else should be on that card
  • [21:15:06] <djlewis> my son lives in Austin
  • [21:15:07] <bobkatzz> does it need the MOL etc as well?
  • [21:15:13] <muriani> MOL?
  • [21:15:14] * jrmuizel (n=jrmuizel@mozca02.ca.mozilla.com) Quit ()
  • [21:15:15] <bobkatzz> MLO B^)
  • [21:15:17] <muriani> oh
  • [21:15:27] <muriani> I think that';s supposed to be in the vfat partition?
  • [21:15:39] <djlewis> first save to vfat.
  • [21:15:39] <bobkatzz> there seems to be a fixed number os files present for the card to boot
  • [21:15:45] <muriani> I acutally don't have a beagle, I just glean this information from conversation in the channel :D
  • [21:15:52] <bobkatzz> I'm not doing any fat anything
  • [21:15:53] * ArteK (n=Artur@81.15.241.96) has left #beagle
  • [21:16:16] <muriani> the beagle requires the boot files to be on the vfat partition, which *should* be there already
  • [21:16:19] <muriani> mount it and check
  • [21:16:23] <djlewis> 1st = MLO then uImage and u-boot.bin
  • [21:16:24] <bobkatzz> I just copied the files onto the card in the order in the manual
  • [21:16:43] <muriani> from what I understand, they're part of the dd image.
  • [21:16:51] <djlewis> yep the 'dd' doesnt place them there yet then?
  • [21:16:55] <bobkatzz> yeah - right djlewis so whaere do koen's files go?
  • [21:17:11] <djlewis> in boot on ext3
  • [21:17:22] <djlewis> is a copy of the uImage and u-boot
  • [21:17:25] <muriani> damnit, I'm totally about to just break down and get one of these things just so I can be sure of what I'm talking about
  • [21:17:40] <muriani> even thogh the AR glasses won't be released until fall
  • [21:17:46] <bobkatzz> is this an already booted SD card?
  • [21:17:58] <djlewis> the tar.bz2 copies to ext3 then gets untarred
  • [21:18:17] * jkridner|work heads for a week long vacation!
  • [21:18:26] <bobkatzz> I could'nt find any ext3 when I minicom'ed into the BB
  • [21:18:29] * jkridner|work (n=a0321898@nat/ti/x-3dba361654e79b59) Quit ("Leaving.")
  • [21:18:35] <djlewis> have a great time jkridner|work
  • [21:19:03] <bobkatzz> yeah ditto jkridner and thanks for your help the other day
  • [21:19:22] <muriani> you should be able to mount the ext3 partition when it's still plugged into your main PC
  • [21:19:28] <bobkatzz> I'm getting there s.l.o.w.l.y. hehe
  • [21:19:45] <djlewis> bobkatzz: I finally gave up getting koen's narcissus images to work. I came close once.
  • [21:19:53] <muriani> mount both the vfat and ext3, check contents
  • [21:19:54] <djlewis> Just couldn't grasp his method.
  • [21:20:16] <muriani> djlewis: I built one for the Efika that worked, IIRC.
  • [21:20:24] <muriani> well, it booted.
  • [21:20:58] <muriani> I ended up going back to the outdated Debian distro that was set up for it thoough.
  • [21:21:00] <djlewis> My problem was getting the proper MLO, uImage and u-boot.bin in sync with the ext3
  • [21:21:10] <bobkatzz> oh - ok maybe my 12 years of Linux hasen't all gone out the brainstem into my ass
  • [21:21:15] <bobkatzz> hehe
  • [21:21:16] <muriani> yeah, I've not had a chance to try all that yet
  • [21:21:48] <bobkatzz> well I have a "plain vanilla" SD card that I set up as per the refrence manuakl and it works great
  • [21:21:49] <djlewis> I am using sakoman_ now as it is more like the Angstrom build but up to date
  • [21:21:53] <djlewis> No offense koen
  • [21:21:53] <muriani> SmartFirmware on the Efika handled ext2, so I could slap it all on there in the linux partition no problem
  • [21:21:57] <bobkatzz> manual
  • [21:22:09] <djlewis> Koen's is up to date, if I could grasp it.
  • [21:22:22] <muriani> I'm gonna try narcissus, and then ubuntu on the beagle
  • [21:22:42] <bobkatzz> I tried renaming the randon miage he gave to ramdisk
  • [21:22:55] <bobkatzz> boy the Beagle peed all over my carpet
  • [21:22:58] <djlewis> when you get narcissus working, please write a wiki.
  • [21:23:12] <bobkatzz> and have a long Guinness
  • [21:23:19] <muriani> you assume I'll get it to work :p
  • [21:23:38] <muriani> I'm optimistic though.
  • [21:23:48] <muriani> I'll probably get a beagle sometime in the next month
  • [21:23:58] <djlewis> it's probably something for a no brainer to figure out.
  • [21:24:04] <muriani> I'm changing jobs, and money's gonna be a little tight.
  • [21:24:09] <bobkatzz> it's just a matter of which files have to be on the card in which order and then (when) to untar the sd.img.gz and then (I assume) the tar file into the ext3 partition
  • [21:24:10] <djlewis> Where is a 12 year ld when you need one?
  • [21:24:30] <bobkatzz> mine's 26 now hehe
  • [21:24:44] <djlewis> untar the sd.img on local HD then copy over I think.
  • [21:24:48] <bobkatzz> and the 22 yold has finals - no way I'm messing with that
  • [21:25:01] <djlewis> mine is 33
  • [21:25:10] <bobkatzz> hey - now that makes sense! dj
  • [21:25:44] <bobkatzz> they shamed me away from Microshaft to Linux and my salary doubled hehe
  • [21:26:08] <bobkatzz> then I got into Flash AS2/3 and now I'm baaaaaaack!
  • [21:26:11] * likewise (n=chatzill@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042523]")
  • [21:26:45] <bobkatzz> I'm going to go try that djlewis - check in with ya if tht works
  • [21:27:15] <bobkatzz> BTW - in Ubuntu on my windows PC in VMWare right now - sweet!
  • [21:27:39] <djlewis> I got as far as a copy that booted but would'nt let me log in the GUI
  • [21:27:48] <djlewis> Then I found out it was a defect.
  • [21:28:17] * Yuvi (n=yuvi@resnet-241-44.resnet.umbc.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [21:28:28] <djlewis> To do so, I had a mismatch of MLO, Uimage and u-boot.bin
  • [21:28:44] <bobkatzz> oh - one thing the sd.img.gz only uncompresses to an sd.img file <--- no idea how the BB knows what to do with the thing
  • [21:29:41] <bobkatzz> well what are the steps that koen's proggy is going through? is there somewhere that it is documented and I'll just build it be hand
  • [21:30:01] <bobkatzz> by hand B^)
  • [21:30:31] <djlewis> let me look.
  • [21:30:49] * KosiNuss (n=tom@89.54.3.22) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [21:31:19] <bobkatzz> on the otehr hand - does Wine run on the BB?
  • [21:31:29] <djlewis> lol
  • [21:31:41] <BrokenBraindPhil> bochs does
  • [21:31:55] <bobkatzz> what I really need - if I can't get GNU Radio to work - is to get Rocky SDR to run on it (or some SDR program)
  • [21:32:43] <bobkatzz> to talk to my SoftRock 6.3 RXTX
  • [21:33:22] <bobkatzz> that's the excercise anyway - didn't know I'd be inventing the wheel for mud racing
  • [21:33:48] <bobkatzz> although I don't mind SOME hacking
  • [21:33:57] <koen> bobkatzz: I think I told you a number of times you should dd the .img file to the sd card
  • [21:34:37] <bobkatzz> that's not the problem koen - the problem is what else is supposed to be on the card?
  • [21:35:03] <bobkatzz> I can get the image onto the card like 150 different ways
  • [21:35:28] <koen> 23:33 < koen> bobkatzz: I think I told you a number of times you should dd the .img file to the sd card
  • [21:35:40] <koen> there's only one way you dd a file onto a device
  • [21:36:06] <djlewis> koen: is the dd suposed to place files on the vfat?
  • [21:36:10] <bobkatzz> is that the only file on there then?
  • [21:36:32] <BrokenBraindPhil> http://www.tracey.org/wjt/sdr1k/SoftRock40/PowerSDR-1.4.4-SR40-Source-20050827.zip
  • [21:36:34] <BrokenBraindPhil> have fun
  • [21:36:56] <koen> djlewis, bobkatzz: go to http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/topics?gvc=2 and type 'dd' into the search box and click search
  • [21:37:18] <koen> it's the first hit ("Question about esc2009sj.v12.img.gz")
  • [21:37:25] <BrokenBraindPhil> dd if=/pathtoimage of=/dev/sdcarddeviceimage
  • [21:37:58] <bobkatzz> Thanks BrokenBraindPhil - when I get this wormhole untangled I'll take a look
  • [21:38:05] <djlewis> it is not the format that didnt work. it only setups up empty partitions then we have to hunt for
  • [21:38:09] <koen> BrokenBraindPhil: I already told him that a few days ago :)
  • [21:38:15] <djlewis> the MLO, uImage and u-boot
  • [21:38:24] <BrokenBraindPhil> :headslap:
  • [21:38:37] <koen> djlewis: mlo, uimage and u-boot are all included
  • [21:38:55] <bobkatzz> ok - thanks - that's waht I wanted to know
  • [21:38:56] <djlewis> in the images boot folder?
  • [21:38:57] <BrokenBraindPhil> dd has been a standard way to write an image to a device since the PDP-11
  • [21:40:41] <bobkatzz> yeah I even did "man dd" it explained all that but it didn't boot becasue I was trying to put all the other files on there too
  • [21:40:56] * mranostay (n=mranosta@cpe-088197.static.wadsnet.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  • [21:41:09] <bobkatzz> so it was much simpler than that
  • [21:41:14] <BrokenBraindPhil> when I was a bad boy, I used to use it to replay network traffic t a Vtun device after capturing the nic's device traffic in promiscuous mode, before wireshark
  • [21:41:18] <koen> djlewis: the sd.img file has a populated vfat partition
  • [21:41:47] <djlewis> that never worked for me koen.
  • [21:42:05] <koen> bobkatzz: after you have dd'd it you can mount the second partition (the ext3 one) and untar the tarball onto that
  • [21:42:07] <BrokenBraindPhil> are you trying to use SDHC card?
  • [21:42:13] <koen> djlewis: works fine for other people
  • [21:42:20] <BrokenBraindPhil> are you trying to use SDHC card?
  • [21:43:44] <djlewis> as I followed the directions to the letter Iusing the ''dd' portion, my Transcend SDHC class 6 card winds up with two empty partitions. that were made by the 'dd'
  • [21:44:20] <djlewis> I know then I have to copy MLO, uImage and u-boot.bin over to vfat and untar image in ext3.
  • [21:44:37] <BrokenBraindPhil> vfat partition, leave alone
  • [21:44:50] <BrokenBraindPhil> only untar the file in ext3
  • [21:44:56] <djlewis> But it is empty.
  • [21:45:31] <BrokenBraindPhil> vfat partition is empty?
  • [21:45:57] <djlewis> YES. that has been the results I get with three different narcissus
  • [21:46:23] <BrokenBraindPhil> did you try remounting the SD card AFTER the dd part?
  • [21:46:34] <djlewis> bobkatzz: after your 'dd' do you have three files in vfat?
  • [21:46:51] <bobkatzz> <<If I were using a BeagleBoard to execute the 'dd', it would be something like: zcat esc2009js.v12.img.gz | dd bs=8388608 of=/dev/mmcblk0 >>
  • [21:47:02] <djlewis> BrokenBraindPhil: yes, unmounteed, unplugged remounted, empty.
  • [21:47:18] <bobkatzz> ARE you using the BB to execute? cuz I'm using my linux box staright to the SD card
  • [21:47:32] <koen> I just tried and got a proper vfat partition
  • [21:47:38] <djlewis> I dd with unbounted SD.
  • [21:47:41] <djlewis> unmounted
  • [21:48:02] <djlewis> Yes with Ubuntu 8.1
  • [21:48:07] <BrokenBraindPhil> what is the device name for your SD card?
  • [21:48:18] <djlewis> usually comes up /dev/sdb
  • [21:48:35] <bobkatzz> see - I don't understand any of that bs=83.... whatever
  • [21:48:35] <djlewis> I always verify with df -h
  • [21:48:43] <BrokenBraindPhil> blocksize
  • [21:49:03] <BrokenBraindPhil> makes it write as a single block
  • [21:49:04] <bobkatzz> sorry - I didn't make the "bs" part hehe
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  • [21:49:39] <BrokenBraindPhil> welp
  • [21:49:41] <BrokenBraindPhil> gtg
  • [21:49:47] <BrokenBraindPhil> ttyg l8er
  • [21:49:53] <djlewis> no answer huh ;)
  • [21:50:00] <BrokenBraindPhil> i told you
  • [21:50:03] <bobkatzz> thanks for the powersdr thing
  • [21:50:13] <BrokenBraindPhil> google is my friend
  • [21:50:20] <BrokenBraindPhil> can be urs too
  • [21:52:36] <bobkatzz> BTW BrokenBraindPhil - will that run on BB?
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  • [22:10:08] <lbause> hello, anybody out there who got a mac wireless keyboard up and running on beagle?
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  • [22:22:22] <geckosenator> I havfe a wirelss keyboard
  • [22:24:18] <lbause> bluetooth?
  • [22:24:39] <lbause> my usb bluetooth dongle works and finds the keyboard
  • [22:33:12] <carlnorum> ali_as, hey I'm back... definitely the 60 MHz clock isn't running, so that sounds like a problem if nothing else.
  • [22:34:09] <carlnorum> It looks to me like the board has a lot of unlabeled parts. The layout picture in the board manual isn't vector so I can't zoom in or search it. =(
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  • [22:41:02] <ds2> keyboard is such old technologies
  • [22:41:10] <ds2> should do more gesture inputs
  • [22:42:36] <maelcum> the act of pressing a keyboard key is very simple and fast, that's hard to replace afaics
  • [22:43:06] <maelcum> if there is room for a keyboard and all that, of course
  • [22:43:41] * SoulBlade (n=Classifi@12.173.51.158) Quit ()
  • [22:44:12] <ds2> yes but it is just as simple as giving the bird to the board when you are displeased with it
  • [22:46:36] <lbause> so then did you get the wiimote connected to your board?
  • [22:48:16] <geckosenator> I have a mouse that works
  • [22:48:36] * fulgas is now known as FuL|OUT
  • [22:48:36] <geckosenator> I made it, it uses magnetic sensors
  • [22:48:58] <geckosenator> so no flat surface needed
  • [22:50:14] <lbause> so what are you doing w/ magnetic sensors?
  • [22:50:27] <geckosenator> it measures rotation
  • [22:50:33] <geckosenator> and that gets converted to cursor position
  • [22:50:41] <ds2> geckosenator: is it in production?
  • [22:50:53] <geckosenator> yes
  • [22:50:56] <geckosenator> sort of they are for sale
  • [22:51:25] <geckosenator> http://digitalsurveyinstruments.com/node/6
  • [22:51:49] <lbause> like a gyro?
  • [22:51:59] <geckosenator> no gyros
  • [22:52:06] <geckosenator> only magnetic sensors
  • [22:52:34] <ds2> too rich for me
  • [22:52:38] <maelcum> using the earth's magnetic field or what?
  • [22:52:42] <geckosenator> yeah
  • [22:52:45] <geckosenator> or whatever field you are in
  • [22:52:53] <geckosenator> ds2: sorry, I have a discounted one without working accels
  • [22:52:57] <lbause> what about the sensitivity?
  • [22:53:01] <geckosenator> it's highly sensitive
  • [22:53:03] <maelcum> that one is usually quite disturbed by metal objects and electric currents
  • [22:53:07] <maelcum> i don't believe it :)
  • [22:53:19] <geckosenator> lbause: about 50x more sensitive than wiimote
  • [22:53:23] <geckosenator> but those things use accels
  • [22:53:30] <ds2> geckosenator: I am looking for something like that to velcro onto a cap for some VR experimenting
  • [22:53:34] <geckosenator> maelcum: it is disturbed by electric currents
  • [22:53:42] <geckosenator> don't try to use it holding it near a power supply :-P
  • [22:53:42] <ds2> as it stands, that is more then my vr goggles :(
  • [22:53:51] <geckosenator> or the mouse will do little circles
  • [22:53:59] <maelcum> nice :P
  • [22:54:07] <ds2> that is almost worth the price
  • [22:54:25] <geckosenator> well maybe we can arrange some kind of special discount for your cause
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  • [22:54:27] <ds2> put it near a VFD and watch circles change speeds
  • [22:54:46] <ds2> I think it is cheaper to go with a gyro
  • [22:54:55] <geckosenator> well gyros are different
  • [22:55:08] <geckosenator> to be honest.. having mags and gyros would be ideal
  • [22:55:11] <ds2> they are but for this purpose, that works about as well
  • [22:55:21] <ds2> I can see drift being a big difference
  • [22:55:25] <geckosenator> you only need 1 gyro?
  • [22:55:30] <mru> connect the output to some magnets and set up a feedback loop
  • [22:55:32] <geckosenator> well most gyro mice have a deadspace
  • [22:55:34] <geckosenator> to avoid drift
  • [22:55:47] <geckosenator> and they might even use accels as well to enhance this ability
  • [22:55:50] <ds2> for my experiements, just 1 gyro will do
  • [22:56:10] <ds2> I just want to see how well it works to track me swiveling my head
  • [22:56:14] <geckosenator> mru: that's teh other thing, you can actually just rotate a magnet near this thing to move your mouse
  • [22:56:32] <geckosenator> I had 3d goggles which had gyros built in
  • [22:56:39] <geckosenator> they had gyros mags and accels actually
  • [22:56:46] <geckosenator> and were 800x600 res oleds
  • [22:56:56] <geckosenator> I was going to hook it to the beagle
  • [22:57:05] <mru> I don't doubt it's sensitive to magnets
  • [22:57:20] <geckosenator> mru: it measures 2 angles of rotation as well
  • [22:57:32] <mru> I once built a circuit that would easily detect a magnet moving on the other side of the room
  • [22:57:48] <geckosenator> this thing can detect a car from 50 meters
  • [22:57:49] <mru> or the tiny magnet in a wrist-watch from a foot away
  • [22:57:54] <ds2> mru: by design or? ;)
  • [22:58:21] <geckosenator> well it's sensitive enough to calculate heading to .005 degrees
  • [22:58:27] <geckosenator> unfortunately it's not this accurate
  • [22:58:43] <mru> ds2: well, what else would you get by connecting an inductor to a high-gain amplifier?
  • [22:58:52] <geckosenator> heh
  • [22:59:04] <ds2> that's why i ask if it is by design ;)
  • [22:59:04] <mru> and some filtering to get rid of powerline hum
  • [22:59:20] <geckosenator> well that isn't very directional is it?
  • [22:59:50] <geckosenator> it seems like it would be in the direction of the coil.. but I wonder if it would work as well
  • [22:59:59] <geckosenator> also.. how much power does it consume?
  • [23:00:12] <geckosenator> my sensors are running at <10mW per axis
  • [23:00:15] <mru> the purpose of this device was to try to detect lightning strikes
  • [23:00:22] <geckosenator> oh
  • [23:00:32] <geckosenator> maybe just use a light sensor?
  • [23:00:43] <mru> where's the fun in that?
  • [23:00:54] <geckosenator> or a microphone for thunder
  • [23:00:57] <mru> and it won't work too well in the daytime
  • [23:01:17] <geckosenator> well it is rarely light when it lightnings but sometimes it is
  • [23:01:22] <ds2> lightning strikes? sounds like a VLF radio
  • [23:01:34] <mru> geckosenator: you obviously don't live in sweden
  • [23:01:51] <geckosenator> obviously
  • [23:02:02] <geckosenator> it does snow and lightning here at the same time though
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  • [23:02:07] <geckosenator> I'm not sure what that's called
  • [23:02:43] <mru> during thunder season in sweden it never gets really dark
  • [23:02:58] <mru> that's sunlight, not lightning ;-)
  • [23:03:01] <geckosenator> oh, you have thunder season
  • [23:03:08] <mru> aka summer
  • [23:03:14] <mru> too cold in winter
  • [23:03:35] <geckosenator> unless it's thundersnow
  • [23:03:41] <mru> too cold for that
  • [23:03:52] <geckosenator> well it could occur in the fall or spring
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  • [23:05:12] <mru> lightning requires cloud formation and strong up-draughts
  • [23:05:26] <geckosenator> maybe you could measure electric field?
  • [23:05:35] <geckosenator> like have a large plate and see if it gets charged relative to ground
  • [23:05:52] <mru> measuring electric field would detect a thunder cloud overhead
  • [23:06:01] <geckosenator> yeah
  • [23:06:06] <geckosenator> it's not exactly the same, but still useful
  • [23:06:40] <mru> during a thunderstorm, finding a reference ground is difficult
  • [23:06:58] <mru> the ground itself gets locally charged
  • [23:10:12] <ds2> mru: enough that a large (1 m^2) copper plate in salt water would still be effected?
  • [23:11:12] <mru> everything is affected
  • [23:11:45] <geckosenator> maybe with a very deep ground rod
  • [23:11:59] <mru> maybe
  • [23:12:08] <mru> but that would have to be 100 feet or more
  • [23:12:13] <ds2> don't see how that would be better then a plate at the bottom for a fjord
  • [23:12:16] <geckosenator> well it depends how high your plate is
  • [23:12:22] <mru> I'm guessing at numbers...
  • [23:12:32] <geckosenator> if the plate were actually a helium balloon
  • [23:13:49] <mru> the lower side of a thunder cloud is highly charged
  • [23:13:57] <mru> the upper side has the opposite charge
  • [23:14:04] <ds2> now if we can only grab this energy in a large cap and slowly discharge it
  • [23:14:12] <mru> so it will attract charge to the area of ground below
  • [23:14:21] <maelcum> it's only a few kilowatt hours unfortunately
  • [23:16:36] <ds2> a few kilowatt hours can power a beagle for a long time if it is tamed
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  • [23:17:39] <maelcum> true!
  • [23:18:11] <maelcum> i remember something on slashdot about a robot digesting flies. it attracts them using the stench of rotting... something.
  • [23:18:14] * zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [23:18:22] <mru> rotting flies...
  • [23:20:15] <mru> "god in his wisdom created the fly, and then forgot to tell us why"
  • [23:20:25] <mru> forgot where I read that
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