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  • [01:46:18] <RyoKimball> would an RS232-to-USB cord work for interfacing with the Beagle?
  • [01:47:26] <RyoKimball> My blasted computer thinks it's too good to have an RS232 jack, and I'm finding cords cheaper than cards...
  • [01:48:12] <Crofton|work> RyoKimball, mine works :)
  • [01:48:25] <muriani> I believe they do
  • [01:48:40] <RyoKimball> ^,^ 'kay, thanks.
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  • [01:53:41] * RyoKimball hates ordering online... shipping costs nearly as much as the stuff I buy.
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  • [01:57:00] <RyoKimball> Q: I have a very small bluetooth USB thing about the size of a thumbnail. Does anyone know of a similarly small-sized 802.11 adapter?
  • [02:00:37] * Leon_Nardella (n=Leon@200-161-14-111.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #beagle
  • [02:03:06] * RyoKimball is looking for online deals marked "free shipping" ^,^
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  • [02:19:47] <ds2> No, I don't think anyone makes miniture USB WiFi's as small as the BT ones
  • [02:20:41] * Leon_Nardella (n=Leon@200-161-14-111.dsl.telesp.net.br) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [02:20:41] <mru> something for the neon coders: http://hardwarebug.org/2008/12/31/arm-neon-memory-hazards/
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  • [02:29:05] <RyoKimball> ds2: Oh,well... thanks anyways ^,^
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  • [03:56:14] <RyoKimball> Can one ssh via usb?
  • [03:56:14] <RyoKimball> I have just the board and a USB cord and am wondering if there's anything I can do until I get the rest of my stuff...
  • [03:57:58] <raster> unfortinately you're stuck
  • [03:58:09] <raster> right now the defaulty uboot only does serial
  • [03:58:29] <raster> there uboot patches in the works to get usb serial
  • [03:58:53] <raster> and right now userspace/kernel doesnt seem to bring up a usb gadget (usbnet)
  • [03:59:26] <RyoKimball> That's cool. Oh, well. I just bought (Newegg) some stuff (RS232 PCI card) to use with it...
  • [03:59:54] <RyoKimball> It's like when I got Halo --three weeks before I got my Xbox. I can stare at it, but can't play with it yet....
  • [04:00:07] <RyoKimball> Thanks Raster
  • [04:00:35] <raster> sorry
  • [04:00:39] <raster> u'll be doing some staring
  • [04:00:42] <raster> :(
  • [04:05:19] <ds2> yes, you can SSH via USB
  • [04:05:44] <ds2> assuming you have something running... i.e if you have the ESC image +a properly configured U-boot you can ssh in
  • [04:06:15] <raster> ds2: but not beagle-out-of-thebox
  • [04:15:36] <ds2> raster: it is just the U-boot setting part
  • [04:15:55] <ds2> but I think jkridner has a U-boot setup to run a script off the SD card so that can work around that
  • [04:16:13] <raster> thats new it hink
  • [04:16:20] <raster> its not what comes on bb by default
  • [04:16:24] <raster> the uboot cant do usb
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  • [04:19:03] <raster> i believe there are "new patches" for it though
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  • [04:19:14] <raster> my userspace/kernel doesnt seem to bring up any usb gadget
  • [04:19:30] * felipec (n=felipec@189.153.88.243) Quit (Client Quit)
  • [04:19:31] <raster> unlike all the other oe images i have built whihc all bring one up
  • [04:20:26] <ds2> u-boot doesn't need to do USB
  • [04:20:33] <ds2> it can take commands to setup to boot the kernel from the SD
  • [04:20:54] <ds2> then all is needed is kernel support for USB Ethernet gadget + userland bits or
  • [04:20:59] <ds2> serial port gadget
  • [04:21:00] <raster> maybe its a module - i have the wron kernel version modules in the rootfs
  • [04:21:13] <ds2> no need to do it as a module, compile it in
  • [04:21:13] <raster> ooh it can?
  • [04:21:40] <raster> never noticed that
  • [04:21:41] <ds2> yep. the ESC image does that. I built it and testedthat feature... don't think many people used it except for a brief demo
  • [04:22:01] <raster> angstrom base?
  • [04:22:05] <ds2> nope
  • [04:22:09] <raster> oh
  • [04:22:11] <raster> not oe?
  • [04:22:18] <ds2> nothing wrong with angstrom, I don't care for it
  • [04:22:21] <ds2> not OE either
  • [04:22:33] <raster> aaaaah'
  • [04:22:45] <raster> thus my "never heard of it" reaction
  • [04:22:48] <raster> :)
  • [04:23:08] <ds2> for a system, there is no need for angstrom - you need kernel + userland... angstrom just wraps it all into one process
  • [04:23:19] <raster> well on all my other arms oe builds usbgadget (usbnet) support into the kernel
  • [04:23:25] <raster> and brings up usbnet on boot
  • [04:23:27] <ds2> ESC== Embedded Systems Conference/Boston - a trade showthat featured a series of classes on the Beagle
  • [04:23:29] <raster> with a known fixed ip
  • [04:23:32] <raster> and dropbear
  • [04:23:35] <raster> so it works
  • [04:23:42] <ds2> yep. that is exactly what the ESC image does
  • [04:23:44] <raster> yeah - i know
  • [04:23:48] <raster> and i like that process
  • [04:24:00] <raster> as it also is the same one i use to build/rebuild most of userspace on top of that
  • [04:24:05] <raster> without any special scripts
  • [04:24:29] <raster> i also build the exact same os image and userspace software setup for multiple targets
  • [04:24:48] <raster> (n800, openmoko freeruner, treo650, zaurus c860)
  • [04:24:59] <raster> so i really like the "set target machine" and "go" thing
  • [04:25:05] <raster> and out pops my kernel + fs images
  • [04:25:30] <raster> :)
  • [04:25:30] <raster> immediately retarget another device
  • [04:25:57] <raster> i used to do my crosscompiling by hand
  • [04:26:02] <raster> but got a bity bored of it
  • [04:26:05] <raster> :)
  • [04:38:04] <sakoman_> raster: just took a look at the beagle defconfig and it looks like the musb port is brought up in OTG mode with usbnet turned on
  • [04:38:33] <sakoman_> so if you have the OE 2.6.28 kernel it should theoretically work :-)
  • [04:38:37] <raster> hmmm
  • [04:39:01] <sakoman_> Are you using an OTG cable or a regular cable?
  • [04:39:20] <sakoman_> If you are using an OTG cable then it is forced into host mode and usbnet won't work
  • [04:40:25] <sakoman_> my OE build on the fresh linux install is *finally* underway
  • [04:40:26] <raster> 2.6.27 here
  • [04:40:32] <raster> so maybe its new in 28
  • [04:40:55] <sakoman_> ok, let me check 2.6.27 for you
  • [04:41:29] <raster> (still building/fetchng my angstrom/oe build - will be days so i just snarfed the most recent snaps)
  • [04:41:38] <raster> it seems to bring up some usb device
  • [04:41:45] <raster> [306664.990464] usb 8-4.1.4.1: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 43
  • [04:41:47] <raster> [306680.055026] usb 8-4.1.4.1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
  • [04:41:49] <raster> but not ver successfully
  • [04:41:52] <raster> very
  • [04:42:45] <sakoman_> raster: ah, in 2.6.27 OTG is not enabled -- it is host only
  • [04:43:15] <sakoman_> so that explains what you are seeing
  • [04:44:05] <sakoman_> raster: that message you are seeing is for the second usb port which is EHCI and host only
  • [04:44:19] <sakoman_> and of course not functional on current beagles
  • [04:44:30] <raster> :)
  • [04:44:40] <raster> yeah
  • [04:44:56] <raster> also it seemsthis mini-a to usb-a doesnt seem to do anything
  • [04:44:57] <sakoman_> so it looks like you want to move to the 2.6.28 kernel for OTG to work properly
  • [04:45:45] <sakoman_> my OE build is on task 982 of 6738
  • [04:46:05] <raster> yeah
  • [04:46:09] <sakoman_> I got really spoiled having all the source code cached before
  • [04:46:19] <raster> but i want to just get my own images working first
  • [04:46:22] <raster> or built
  • [04:46:25] <raster> so awiaitngofr that
  • [04:46:32] <raster> waiting
  • [04:46:50] <sakoman_> yeah, that first build is interminable
  • [04:47:18] <raster> on 32kbit... it will take until next year!
  • [04:47:29] <raster> (literally!)
  • [04:47:32] <sakoman_> perhaps literally :-)
  • [04:47:36] <sakoman_> heh
  • [04:48:08] <sakoman_> you'll get there before me :-)
  • [04:48:27] <raster> will
  • [04:48:30] <raster> in a few hours
  • [04:48:49] <raster> a bit over 8 hrs to go of s008
  • [04:48:52] <raster> err 2008
  • [04:49:14] <raster> 86% [===============================> ] 75,318,632 471.68B/s ETA 1:21:26
  • [04:49:21] <raster> thats the kind of poo i am contending with
  • [04:49:30] <sakoman_> argh
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  • [04:50:45] <sakoman_> on my build both cores are pegged at 100% utilization, so I don't seem to be network limited at all
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  • [04:53:09] <raster> i'm building 5 targets atm
  • [04:53:30] <raster> and they are definitely all waiting on downloads
  • [04:53:34] <raster> :)
  • [04:54:04] <raster> grrrr
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  • [05:02:10] <sakoman_> raster: is it your isp or just slow servers upstream?
  • [05:02:27] <raster> isp
  • [05:02:38] <raster> i'm stuck on 32bkit because its prepaid wimax
  • [05:02:49] <raster> and my 1g quota vanished in the first 3 days
  • [05:02:51] <sakoman_> ouch!
  • [05:02:54] <raster> so they drop to 32k
  • [05:03:01] <raster> (when quota runs out)
  • [05:03:11] <raster> and its $20 for another 1g and 15days
  • [05:03:24] <raster> this is a temporary solution while waiting for my dsl to be reconnected
  • [05:03:36] <sakoman_> I got a business DSL line
  • [05:03:58] <raster> i normally have naked
  • [05:04:31] <raster> so normally its 20mbit with 90g quoat per month
  • [05:04:41] <raster> thats never a problem
  • [05:04:48] <raster> but.. that isnt switched on yet
  • [05:04:54] <raster> waiting for the slow-arse fuckers
  • [05:05:25] <sakoman_> 20mbit would be nice!
  • [05:06:10] <raster> well thats what i had before i moved
  • [05:06:14] <raster> tho not as good as japan
  • [05:06:21] <raster> 100mbit
  • [05:06:21] <raster> and cheap
  • [05:07:39] <sakoman_> I live in the middle of nowhere so I am happy to get 2mbit
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  • [05:09:03] <raster> :(
  • [05:09:05] <raster> that sucks
  • [05:09:14] <raster> better than 32k tho!
  • [05:09:28] <sakoman_> yup, all relative :-)
  • [05:11:02] <raster> yeah
  • [05:11:11] <raster> what i would give just to have my 20mbit back...
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  • [05:44:51] <BeagleBot> http://beagleboard.org/project/android/ was edited by embinux.myopenid.com
  • [05:49:59] <BeagleBot> http://beagleboard.org/project/android/ was edited by embinux.myopenid.com
  • [05:52:34] <BeagleBot> http://beagleboard.org/project/android/ was edited by embinux.myopenid.com
  • [05:55:56] <BeagleBot> http://beagleboard.org/project/android/ was edited by embinux.myopenid.com
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  • [06:08:39] <RyoKimball> Does NDISWrapper for ARM exist?
  • [06:09:45] <RyoKimball> (or can someone suggest a good, cheap 802.11n USB adapter that'll work with the Beagle?)
  • [06:48:52] * RyoKimball1 (n=Ryo_Kimb@c-69-247-180-145.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [06:48:58] <RyoKimball1> Umm... is there some way to trade back my Beagle for the RevC when it comes out?
  • [06:54:45] <ds2> no, you cannot run NDISWrapper on ARM
  • [06:55:03] <ds2> at least not until MS releases full blown windows on ARM ;)
  • [06:58:15] <RyoKimball1> With current Netbook talks that may not be too far off...
  • [06:58:30] <RyoKimball1> .oO(Do you ever sleep?)
  • [07:01:14] <RyoKimball1> I'm just now realizing that I can't run a simple LCD display straight from DVI-D...
  • [07:02:33] <ds2> most netbooks are atom
  • [07:02:40] <ds2> I do...local time is just 11PM
  • [07:04:24] <RyoKimball1> Yeah, but some time next year they are supposed to have some ARM-based netbooks. And I'm only a couple of hours later than you
  • [07:06:34] <ds2> i hope so
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  • [07:07:58] <RyoKimball1> ...hello?
  • [07:08:02] <RyoKimball1> Oh.
  • [07:08:04] <RyoKimball1> lol
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  • [07:17:26] <ds2> I am in and out
  • [07:17:37] <RyoKimball> G'night
  • [07:18:11] <RyoKimball> Oh... sorry. I misread.
  • [07:25:41] * emeb_mac (n=ericb@ip72-223-90-212.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit ()
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  • [07:31:58] <RyoKimball> Well, my gf beckons me to sleep.
  • [07:31:58] <RyoKimball> G'night & thanks, esp. ds2
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  • [08:54:15] <eFfeM> koen, contacted the guys of that termini dvb-t receiver, this one was sold as terratec cinergy t2; out of production but possibly still available on ebay etc
  • [08:59:15] <koen> great
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  • [11:04:10] <iscape1> hello, I'm loosely following the project but intent to buy a board once the native LCD support is in. Is the rev 3 coming up?
  • [11:05:09] <iscape1> rev C that is
  • [11:05:26] <mru> yes, rev C is coming along
  • [11:05:32] <mru> current ETA is march
  • [11:08:07] <iscape1> oh what a pity, I had loved to buy it in January already ;) but thanks for the reply
  • [11:08:33] <mru> you could always enter the contest and hope to win one
  • [11:09:41] <gregoiregentil> mru as a salesman!
  • [11:14:51] <iscape1> mru: thanks for the pointer, I didn't know about the contest yet but will apply with a project
  • [11:15:46] <iscape1> at least I want to get tangoGPS onto it and probably another project
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  • [11:56:19] <magnet> hello.
  • [11:57:01] <magnet> woot koen you corrected that libglib-2.0-util !
  • [11:57:04] <magnet> thanks.
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  • [12:26:56] <florian> hi all
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  • [13:28:27] <Xenion> hello
  • [13:28:32] <Xenion> jkridner, are you there ?
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  • [13:28:42] <Xenion> i have q question regarding the beagle kernel
  • [13:28:58] * Crofton|work (n=balister@pool-71-171-24-107.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [13:29:14] <Xenion> you've stated that the .27 kernel is more stable ( the kernel used by angstrom ), but online i'm only able to find the .22 kernel source
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  • [13:33:02] <Crofton> Xenion, angstrom uses Tony Lindgren's git + some patches
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  • [13:33:13] <Xenion> Crofton, i see
  • [13:33:17] <Xenion> is there an official git repo ?
  • [13:33:22] <Xenion> one provided by TI ?
  • [13:34:42] <Crofton> http://gitweb.openembedded.net/?p=openembedded.git;a=blob;f=packages/linux/linux-omap_git.bb;h=35000e2030e076d83c37ee631ac6d471aa1ed0a6;hb=cf229eb72aa7952308abad572b7b328fc11e7266
  • [13:34:45] <Crofton> no :)
  • [13:34:50] <Crofton> that is a feature btw :)
  • [13:34:58] <Xenion> hum why ?
  • [13:35:10] <Crofton> community project
  • [13:35:16] <Crofton> fewer walls
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  • [13:39:14] <Xenion> Crofton, so the official kernel is just 2.6.22.18 ?
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  • [13:42:26] <Crofton> I don't think there is an official Beagle kernel
  • [13:42:34] <Crofton> the .22 is one that was done at TI
  • [13:42:45] <Crofton> but that does not make it officiial
  • [13:42:50] <Xenion> yeah that's what i mean
  • [13:43:47] <Xenion> is there an TI git tree ?
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  • [13:49:47] <Crofton> Xenion, no public TI tree I know of
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  • [13:55:56] <Xenion> Crofton, are you aware of any problems regarding the mini-usb-a port on the bb ?
  • [13:56:11] <Xenion> right now im running in to trouble because, i'm unable to connect
  • [13:56:22] <Crofton> you need to "funny" cable
  • [13:56:26] <Crofton> connect to what?
  • [13:56:52] <Xenion> i want to connect via ndis
  • [13:57:30] <Crofton> I've only used a hub
  • [13:57:35] <Xenion> i see
  • [13:57:40] <Xenion> my point is
  • [13:57:40] <Crofton> and connect via wired ethernet dingle
  • [13:57:47] <Xenion> i see
  • [13:57:49] <Xenion> Crofton,
  • [13:58:05] <Crofton> I have a keyboard and mouse also connected to the hub
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  • [14:00:35] <Xenion> Crofton, the point is quite simple
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  • [14:01:57] <Xenion> my pc doenst show any sign of activity when the bb is turned on
  • [14:02:01] <Xenion> it's like the port is dead
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  • [14:09:20] <Crofton> serial?
  • [14:09:35] <Crofton> do the leds light?
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  • [14:15:48] * cbrake_away is now known as cbrake
  • [14:18:52] <Crofton> has anyone tried the spidev driver on the beagle yet?
  • [14:23:05] <Xenion> Crofton, i think i forgot the cdc driver
  • [14:23:18] <Xenion> i'll try it in 10 mins
  • [14:23:19] <Xenion> :)
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  • [15:06:44] <adj_> whee, now my beaglebot is also moving :)
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  • [15:07:02] <adj_> http://www.hervanta.com/stuff/Beaglebot#Videos
  • [15:11:12] <sakoman_> adj_: very cute!
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  • [15:15:22] <adj_> tnx :)
  • [15:16:41] <simon42> adj_: awesome (-:
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  • [15:21:51] <Xenion> arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3beagle.c:246: error: 'omap3evm_twl4030rtc_device' undeclared here (not in a function)
  • [15:21:53] <Xenion> hum?
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  • [16:10:54] <jkridner> good morning all.
  • [16:12:12] <Crofton> gm
  • [16:12:39] <jkridner> Happy New Year's Eve Crofton
  • [16:13:43] <Crofton> same to you
  • [16:14:07] <sakoman_> good morning
  • [16:14:14] <jkridner> hi sakoman_
  • [16:14:33] <jkridner> happy new year's eve to you as well!
  • [16:15:02] <sakoman_> thanks! back at ya :-)
  • [16:15:32] <sakoman_> sigh, still trying to get my linux install back in shape
  • [16:16:03] <Crofton> what did you do?
  • [16:16:07] <sakoman_> I have 4 or 5 packages in my standard OE image that fail now :-(
  • [16:16:12] <Crofton> urg
  • [16:16:15] <Crofton> which ones?
  • [16:17:12] <sakoman_> firefox, gimp, gnumeric and a couple of others
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  • [16:26:38] <sakoman_> Crofton: the hard drive on my main development machine failed, so this is on a fresh intall of linux, fresh checkout of OE
  • [16:26:48] <Crofton> urg
  • [16:26:56] <Crofton> good test though
  • [16:27:06] <sakoman_> yeah, I lost more than a day of work :-(
  • [16:27:35] <sakoman_> losing potential billable hours sucks!
  • [16:28:51] <Crofton> I wonder if I can use gnucash for billing?
  • [16:29:15] <sakoman_> I use Quickbooks online
  • [16:29:37] <Crofton> hmmm
  • [16:29:42] <Crofton> no windows?
  • [16:29:57] <Crofton> all your privacy belong to Intuit ....
  • [16:30:21] <sakoman_> Lets my accountant access the data easily
  • [16:30:47] <sakoman_> auto syncs with my business bank account and credit card company
  • [16:30:51] <Crofton> no inactiveX stuff, works from linux?
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  • [16:31:17] <sakoman_> Right now IE only, so I use vmware
  • [16:31:30] <sakoman_> they say firefox/safari are in their plans
  • [16:31:34] <Crofton> bother
  • [16:31:55] <sakoman_> it has worked well for me, most everything is fairly automatic
  • [16:32:11] <sakoman_> especially nice if you have an outside accountant
  • [16:33:18] <sakoman_> I have a great guy that charges a fixed monthly fee and does monthly reviews and files all tax forms as part of the deal
  • [16:33:36] <dirk2> sakoman: Did you notice http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2008-12-30#T17:32:29 ? Not really urgent, but maybe a thing to check for some free minutes. I will send a fix for Beagle as proposed by S??ren at ml the next days.
  • [16:34:33] <sakoman_> dirk2: I did see that but have been focused on trying to get my machine to the point that I can do builds again
  • [16:34:54] <dirk2> np, just wanted to mention it ;)
  • [16:35:08] <sakoman_> It looks like a reasonable proposal, but I need to review & test it on overo
  • [16:35:55] <dirk2> sakoman_: Yes, about this GPIO_17x to GPIO6.x translation I had to think twice...
  • [16:36:50] <sakoman_> Crofton: the list of failing packages is: firefox, gimp, gnumeric, nautilus, guile-native, and libwnck
  • [16:37:14] * prpplague^2 is now known as prpplague
  • [16:37:26] <Crofton> good, nothing important :)
  • [16:38:01] <Crofton> The intuit website is useless with firefox ....
  • [16:38:27] <Crofton> ok, lunch and a trip to Staples to stock up on ups'
  • [16:38:37] <Crofton> windy day, power glitches
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  • [18:04:27] * Xenion (n=robert@dslb-088-072-251-059.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit ("Verlassend")
  • [18:08:33] <jkridner> anybody run kde on Beagle?
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  • [18:11:26] <jkridner> looks like it must be in the Handhelds Mojo builds.
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  • [18:40:10] <ds2> no but one should be able to do a quick tests using the KDE stuff built for the N800
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  • [18:40:20] <ds2> s/no/not running it/
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  • [19:36:42] * jkridner would like to use apt-get on these Ubuntu packages from within Angstrom.
  • [19:36:52] <jkridner> I imagine it is possible.
  • [19:40:49] <gabba> Does the contest require a working implementation be submitted? Contest page implies yes.
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  • [19:47:41] <tharvey> those using OE are using standard org.openembedded.dev or is there a different git branch for beagleboard?
  • [19:49:29] * garren (n=garren@dsl-241-196-167.telkomadsl.co.za) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [19:53:09] <Crofton|laptop> standard OE
  • [19:56:09] <tharvey> I'm often seeing filenames with 'omap', 'omap1', and 'omap2' in the filenames - was there split omap1x and omap2x development which has since been merged and now there is just 'omap' which suports all 3?
  • [19:56:42] <tharvey> I see this in oe's packages/linux recipes as well as in patchsets from www.muru.com
  • [19:56:46] <Crofton|work> tharvey, basically, yes
  • [19:57:42] <tharvey> ok, thx
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  • [19:59:30] <jkridner> koen: I just did an 'svn co https://omapzoom.org/svn/gstreamer_ti/trunk/gstreamer_ti' without any problem.
  • [19:59:49] <jkridner> perhaps you tried to use gstreamer.ti.com instead of omapzoom.org?
  • [20:00:00] <jkridner> perhaps that alias isn't working for svn yet.
  • [20:10:22] <koen> koen@dominion:/OE/TI$ svn co https://omapzoom.org/svn/gstreamer_ti/trunk/gstreamer_ti
  • [20:10:25] <koen> Authentication realm: <https://omapzoom.org:443> Document repository
  • [20:10:28] <koen> Password for 'koen':
  • [20:10:31] <koen> it fails after that
  • [20:10:43] <koen> whether I fill in the appropriate credentials or not
  • [20:10:56] <koen> the download instructions say only gforge logins work
  • [20:11:26] <koen> jkridner: btw, opkg can read .deb packages
  • [20:14:10] <koen> aha
  • [20:14:21] <koen> you need to explicitly login as 'anonymous'
  • [20:14:37] * koen curses README.txt for being wrong
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  • [20:18:31] * koen gets back to idling in the office
  • [20:29:27] <maelcum> -O2 -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mthumb -mthumb-interwork -mfloat-abi=softfp
  • [20:29:45] <maelcum> are those flags correct to compile compatible code on debian armel?
  • [20:30:57] <mru> maelcum: I'd drop -mthumb
  • [20:31:40] <maelcum> well, i choose to use it. thumb 2 is supposed to be significantly smaller and almost the same speed as 32-bit instructions.
  • [20:31:54] <mru> supposed != reality
  • [20:32:06] <maelcum> how big is the difference?
  • [20:32:09] <mru> don't know
  • [20:32:14] <mru> but I wouldn't trust gcc with it
  • [20:32:28] <mru> it's not nearly as heavily used as arm mode
  • [20:33:16] <maelcum> hmmm ok. when compiling qt which uses its own code generator moc i occasionally get "illegal instruction" crashes in moc. not a good sign.
  • [20:33:36] <mru> that's what I'm talking about
  • [20:33:44] <mru> well, not that specifically
  • [20:33:47] * mru doesn't use qt
  • [20:33:54] <maelcum> this is while compiling qt. if even that fails...
  • [20:34:12] <maelcum> i'm using the latest codesourcery version of gcc btw
  • [20:34:58] <mru> don't use that
  • [20:35:01] <mru> use 2007q3
  • [20:35:08] <ds2> hahah
  • [20:35:13] <maelcum> yeah, i've heard that before :/
  • [20:35:24] <ds2> read his blog ;)
  • [20:35:34] <maelcum> i know that gcc 4.3 is significantly better on x86...
  • [20:35:47] <maelcum> i'm not using neon or auto-vectorization! :)
  • [20:36:48] <mru> I have a case where a function containing nothing but "return x;" crashes
  • [20:36:56] <maelcum> apart from gcc making a mess of it my command line *should* work, is that right?
  • [20:36:58] <maelcum> yay!
  • [20:37:22] <mru> building a shared lib without -fPIC with 2008q3 does that
  • [20:38:02] <mru> I don't use thumb
  • [20:38:02] <maelcum> well, i guess this is a "don't do that then" situation. isn't it completely useless to do what you did?
  • [20:38:25] <mru> seems like a reasonable thing to do
  • [20:38:38] <mru> -fPIC produces significantly slower code
  • [20:38:54] <maelcum> but it also 100% necessary for shared libraries(?)
  • [20:38:57] <maelcum> at least on x86
  • [20:39:16] <ds2> didn't libc2 or something like that not require PIC?
  • [20:39:21] <mru> x86-64 is the only cpu that absolutely needs it
  • [20:39:56] <mru> that's because an immediate operand after a relocation might need more space than is available
  • [20:42:01] <maelcum> that doesn't seem to make any sense. assuming there is a variable size instruction, one could reserve space for it and it would expand "down" in any case.
  • [20:43:00] <mru> the relocation won't alter the size of instructions
  • [20:43:08] <mru> it only rewrites immediate fields
  • [20:43:47] <maelcum> what's the problem? one can always reserve the maximum that may be needed.
  • [20:44:19] <maelcum> i.e. use the long form even for values that fit in the short form
  • [20:44:20] <mru> that would make the code bigger and slower
  • [20:44:34] <maelcum> mostly bigger i guess, but also slightly slower
  • [20:45:11] <maelcum> oh, does amd64 have some provision to make relocations a lot faster than on i386, i.e. with less indirections?
  • [20:45:13] <mru> I think some instructions don't have a 64-bit immediate version
  • [20:45:25] <mru> x86-64 at least has more registers
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  • [20:45:40] <mru> so keeping a got pointer in one doesn't cost as much in performance
  • [20:45:48] <maelcum> yeah, that too
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  • [20:46:29] <mru> but any instruction using extended funcionality needs a special prefix
  • [20:46:43] <maelcum> i seem to remember something... it is not too bad to force -fPIC if relocations are very fast anyway :]
  • [20:47:06] <mru> -fPIC is bad for performance
  • [20:47:13] <mru> there's nothing to discuss there
  • [20:47:18] <mru> just look at the code
  • [20:47:22] <maelcum> the question is how bad
  • [20:47:38] <maelcum> iirc ~10% on i386?
  • [20:48:17] <mru> just how bad it is depends on the memory subsystem
  • [20:48:23] <mru> less cache makes it worse
  • [20:48:49] <mru> accessing a global variable often needs three memory accesses instead of one
  • [20:49:23] <mru> one to load the got address, one to load the address of the variable from the got, and one for the actual data access
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  • [21:06:52] <mru> I'll do a benchmark of -fPIC later
  • [21:08:15] <maelcum> huh, seems like not using -mthumb also does wonders for compilation speed
  • [21:09:41] <mru> I'd add -mfpu=neon too
  • [21:09:57] <mru> at least if you use any floating point
  • [21:10:09] <mru> oh, and -ffast-math
  • [21:19:01] <maelcum> tbh i don't trust -mfpu=neon on my compiler version...
  • [21:19:24] <mru> that option should be safe
  • [21:19:30] <maelcum> okay
  • [21:20:05] <maelcum> fortunately graphics toolkits and gui applications, which i care most about in my experiments, don't use fp much.
  • [21:20:29] <maelcum> i was trying to use thumb because 128 mb is not that much memory and qt is big... :/
  • [21:21:00] <mru> the real question is why you're using qt in the first place
  • [21:22:13] <maelcum> well, first off it's what i know and what the consulting company i work at uses.
  • [21:22:26] <mru> wrong approach
  • [21:22:29] <maelcum> and there is no better free gui toolkit if you ask me :)
  • [21:22:38] <mru> you should choose the tools according the problem at hand
  • [21:23:28] <maelcum> ncurses? maybe the enlightenment toolkit? i can't think of a viable replacement.
  • [21:23:36] <mru> would you hire a car mechanic who proudly declared he used a mallet and no other tool?
  • [21:23:45] <maelcum> gtk is not even significantly smaller
  • [21:23:50] <maelcum> suggest something
  • [21:23:57] <mru> I don't use guis
  • [21:24:14] <mru> at least not a lot
  • [21:24:19] <maelcum> your choice, but not most user's
  • [21:24:32] <mru> the few gui apps I've written use xlib directly
  • [21:24:46] <ds2> n
  • [21:25:25] <maelcum> xlib is horrible from a getting things done fast perspective
  • [21:25:51] <mru> that's why I usually start by writing a mini-toolkit suitable for the app
  • [21:26:25] <mru> generally this is smaller than a single qt header file
  • [21:28:12] <maelcum> i recognize that qt, and most c++ code in general, is quite large, at least the executables. but it helps to let other people do a part of the work for you. and the code that they write will be already tested and debugged.
  • [21:28:55] <koen> maelcum: if you want to be compatible with debian armel you can only use armv4t, not armv7
  • [21:29:07] <koen> unless you mean "sort of compatible"
  • [21:29:31] <mru> an armv7-compiled app can of course run with armv4 libs
  • [21:29:45] <maelcum> i mean "compatible to existing stuff and runs on *my* machine"
  • [21:30:08] <maelcum> and by stuff i mean libraries that come with debian
  • [21:31:37] <maelcum> fwiw, i would hire a car mechanic who only works with butterflies
  • [21:33:10] <mru> sure, but if you use butterflies you don't need qt
  • [21:34:31] <maelcum> the butterflies may or may not flutter around the qt programmers in oslo
  • [21:44:17] <tharvey> is there kernel support currently or being worked on for the Camera interface of the OMAP3?
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  • [22:10:00] <tharvey> seems like omapzoom has camera controller drivers for 34xx - I'm not sure I understand the diff between the OMAP 34xx and OMAP35xx family - not at all clear they would use the same camera capture driver
  • [22:12:58] <mru> the only difference between 34xx and 35xx is the package
  • [22:14:53] <tharvey> so theoretically the drivers/media/video/omap34xxcam.c driver should work with the 35xx as well... good to know
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  • [23:04:14] <tanatos> Happy New Year Beagle!
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