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  • [00:00:34] * Topic is 'http://beagleboard.org/chat has a guide on how to ask questions and links to the logs | never ask to ask, just ask | be patient | pastebin a boot log | http://ahsoftware.de/Beaglebone_Black_Boot_explained.svg | http://beagleboard.org/latest-images | http://beagleboard.org/Support/bone101 | direct bonescript/node.js questions to #beagle-bonescript | books: http://bit.ly/bbb-books'
  • [00:00:34] * Set by KotH!~attila@erica.kinali.ch on Wed Jul 15 13:55:07 UTC 2015
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  • [00:10:35] <GenTooMan> It's whats his set_
  • [00:10:52] <Set_> Me too?
  • [00:11:05] <Set_> Guess who?
  • [00:11:52] <GenTooMan> that would be better than guess what probably. :D
  • [00:12:00] <Set_> It is cool!
  • [00:12:06] <Set_> I enjoy everything...
  • [00:12:17] <Set_> Esp. the BBB/BBG.
  • [00:12:39] <Set_> Pin here, connect there, and go, go, go. Oh and stop.
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  • [00:16:04] <Set_> Gen in "da hizzy!"
  • [00:16:37] <GenTooMan> That was a bit odd.
  • [00:16:42] <Set_> I have this old VoIP machine/board. I wanted to find the code. I have looked.
  • [00:17:18] <GenTooMan> the code for what exactly?
  • [00:17:55] <GenTooMan> you want to have VOIP control with a BBB?
  • [00:18:08] <Set_> Where do you think I can find some old code for a Grandstream H
  • [00:18:19] <Set_> I wanted to change it to use it.
  • [00:18:27] <Set_> Sure.
  • [00:19:33] <Set_> H702 grandstream...this is the board/machine (VoIP). I thought I could attach it to my BBB but I am not sure yet.
  • [00:19:37] * linkedinyou (~linkediny@unaffiliated/linkedinyou) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [00:20:20] <Set_> There are some connections but very few and no support. I looked on YouTube.com and found one manual worth lookin' at.
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  • [00:21:03] <Set_> Probably copywritten...
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  • [00:23:54] <Set_> I could only find a user manual. Boo!
  • [00:24:13] <uavcamm> www.grandstream.com/sites/default/files/Resources/Release_HT702_1.0.8.2.zip
  • [00:24:36] <Set_> Heh?
  • [00:24:41] <Set_> Hold on...let me check it out.
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  • [00:27:26] <GenTooMan> Well I was confused because the only thing I could find was the ht702...
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  • [00:30:11] <Set_> Uavcamm...what should I do with that .zip file?
  • [00:31:05] <uavcamm> seems to be a firmware for ht702 device
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  • [00:31:30] <uavcamm> http://www.grandstream.com/support/firmware a h702 is not listed here
  • [00:31:40] <uavcamm> not even a H series
  • [00:32:34] <Set_> I should have listed it correctly. HT702. Sorry.
  • [00:33:32] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  • [00:33:53] <uavcamm> then its a firmware for the device you have.
  • [00:36:03] <Set_> Oh...did you get that .zip file from grandstream.com?
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  • [00:36:20] <Set_> I mean...I see you have. I could not find it.
  • [00:36:47] <uavcamm> i googled "grandstream h702" - second hit
  • [00:38:21] <Set_> Oh. I found a .bin file.
  • [00:39:25] <GenTooMan> Grandstream 'uses" gpl software but doesn't say what software it is... how odd.
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  • [00:39:34] <Set_> Errr!
  • [00:39:38] <uavcamm> yes. pload it. more you will not get i think. couldnt find opensource code
  • [00:40:26] <Set_> Those people created an empire and not avail. to the public.
  • [00:40:37] <Set_> I will keep looking.
  • [00:40:40] <uavcamm> if they use gpl2 code, i expecded busybox, hey must have some kind of open source repo somewhere
  • [00:43:43] <GenTooMan> so you have one of these? HT701/HT702/HT704 Analog Telephone Adaptor
  • [00:44:53] <Set_> Yea...I bought one a while back.
  • [00:44:59] <Set_> I forget from which company.
  • [00:45:17] <Set_> But...that is the mfg.
  • [00:45:21] <Set_> Grandstream.
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  • [00:45:36] <Set_> I found a bunch of text files.
  • [00:46:54] <Set_> Oh...I just downloaded their GNU Public "whatever-it-is-called."
  • [00:47:14] <Set_> it is a .gz file.
  • [00:48:44] <Set_> 7-Zip!
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  • [01:28:42] <GenTooMan> Well funny thing about the Z 7z lzh etc. the actually are peoples names.
  • [01:30:19] <veremit> eh?
  • [01:32:04] <GenTooMan> LZW etc are short for peoples names for example Z is oft short for a guy named Ziv L lempel W welch h hoffman. etc. Kind of funny how it ended that way. now some of the names are a bit odd like S - and F or Shano and Fano. (real names)
  • [01:32:25] <veremit> interesting
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  • [01:33:25] <GenTooMan> All of them are related to encoding schemes and compressions schemes. Mathematicians :D gotta love them.
  • [01:33:44] <veremit> aye
  • [01:33:48] <uavcamm> and the the google guys came and call thing weird...
  • [01:34:20] <uavcamm> like "brotli"
  • [01:35:01] <GenTooMan> google guys are nothing but "S&M" people "sales and marketing" some call it I term it "gently" "slobbish masterbation"
  • [01:35:10] <Set_> Okay...my HT702 has 12 holes for headers.
  • [01:35:22] <Set_> I have the software.
  • [01:36:05] <Set_> Now...how-to? How would I go about connecting the pins without the info. regarding the schematics?
  • [01:36:23] <Set_> The holes for the headers are not listed.
  • [01:36:30] <Set_> listed = labeled.
  • [01:36:34] <GenTooMan> How about the user manual? use google or yahoo "ht702 user manual"
  • [01:36:40] <Set_> Oh.
  • [01:36:48] <Set_> Sorry...I have one. I will check it again.
  • [01:37:54] <GenTooMan> looked under SOFTWARE UPGRADE
  • [01:38:00] <GenTooMan> :D
  • [01:38:56] <GenTooMan> anyhow ... Google has apparently had difficulty recruiting good people the last 10 years. They also are loosing top talent "doing other things". STill their engineering section stuff is pretty good.
  • [01:38:58] <veremit> heh. Think its time to zz here .. nn all .. happy hacking!
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  • [01:39:34] <GenTooMan> heh happen thanksgiving if your celebrate it. :D if not enjoy your family for a change? :D
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  • [01:45:55] <Set_> Nope...the manual has no info. on these holes.
  • [01:52:05] <Set_> It is like two TTL to USB holes for programming.
  • [01:52:15] <Set_> I guess...yikes.
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  • [02:14:36] <Elray> hello hello
  • [02:14:41] <Elray> there is some one?
  • [02:15:44] <Elray> does some one have some experience with debian and wifi module?
  • [02:18:03] <Set_> Hello...
  • [02:18:16] <Set_> apt-get install wifi?
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  • [02:20:14] <Set_> there is a Debian-Handbook.pdf out there.
  • [02:20:17] <Set_> Check it out.
  • [02:21:31] <Set_> https://debian-handbook.info/get/
  • [02:22:00] <Set_> That link goes directly to the page online where you can get the handbook...they have older versions and Jessie.
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  • [02:25:07] <Elray> apt-get install mt7601-sta-dkms
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  • [02:25:23] <Elray> when i try to run this apt-get install mt7601-sta-dkms
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  • [02:25:35] <Elray> it's say to me that is already installed
  • [02:25:49] <Elray> if i make lsusb i see the module
  • [02:26:10] <Set_> what do you want to do to the module?
  • [02:26:34] <Elray> i'm running the kernel 4.3
  • [02:26:42] <Elray> use it :D
  • [02:26:53] <Elray> use the wifi
  • [02:27:09] <Elray> so just connect to my local wifi lan
  • [02:27:11] <uavcamm> what os?
  • [02:27:16] <Set_> mt7601-sta-dkms ls will show you the files and you can change them.
  • [02:27:30] <Elray> wich file?
  • [02:27:56] <Set_> answer uavcamm first. She knows a lot more than me.
  • [02:28:24] <Elray> ok :)
  • [02:28:34] <Elray> i'm using debian
  • [02:28:49] <Elray> i have updated the kernel to 4.3
  • [02:29:00] <Elray> ,on a beagle bone black,
  • [02:29:07] <Set_> BBB!
  • [02:29:45] <uavcamm> it incuded in 4.2
  • [02:30:01] <Set_> I got the dang Wheezy handbook. No wonder I am fronting on this assignment.
  • [02:30:08] <Set_> Hold please...
  • [02:30:17] <uavcamm> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/net/wireless/mediatek/mt7601u
  • [02:30:24] <uavcamm> perhaps build it again?
  • [02:30:43] <uavcamm> the dongle is not working at all?
  • [02:30:57] <Elray> the dongle?
  • [02:31:12] <uavcamm> isnt it a usb wifi thing?
  • [02:31:20] <Elray> yes
  • [02:31:33] <Elray> if make lsusb i see it
  • [02:32:21] <uavcamm> do you see it with "ip link show" ?
  • [02:32:59] <uavcamm> or "ls /sys/class/net" ?
  • [02:33:25] <Elray> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 148f:7601 Ralink Technology, Corp.
  • [02:33:30] <Elray> this is what i see
  • [02:34:13] <uavcamm> should work. driver for that was included in 4.2
  • [02:34:37] <Elray> how can i check if there are the driver?
  • [02:38:08] <uavcamm> lsmod
  • [02:38:37] <uavcamm> see if the driver is laoded
  • [02:39:16] <Elray> should i see something like this mt7601 right?
  • [02:40:47] <Set_> uavcamm...what page are you reading online or what text do you have?
  • [02:41:27] <Set_> I read out of the book, previously Wheezy, in .pdf format.
  • [02:41:46] <Set_> I am trying to find better sources for specific info.
  • [02:42:15] <uavcamm> right elaray
  • [02:42:24] <uavcamm> i use my memories set...
  • [02:42:35] <Elray> there is nothig about it
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  • [02:42:44] <Set_> Oh.
  • [02:42:52] <Set_> I use the book and the wiki still.
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  • [02:47:03] <Set_> https://wiki.debian.org/Manual-Howto
  • [02:47:28] <uavcamm> 601
  • [02:49:43] <Set_> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Wifi
  • [02:49:46] <Set_> Does that help?
  • [02:52:03] * idwer (~irc@unaffiliated/idwer) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [02:52:44] <Set_> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/wireless-tools
  • [02:52:48] <Set_> That may help too!
  • [02:53:34] <Elray> https://wiki.debian.org/it/rt2800usb
  • [02:53:37] * wgrant (~wgrant@ubuntu/member/wgrant) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  • [02:53:48] <Elray> i have also follwed this guide
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  • [03:13:59] <Set_> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/utils/mtp-tools
  • [03:15:55] <Set_> I just searched the entire catalog. It says, "Sorry, your search gave no results," this for mt7601-sta-dkms.
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  • [03:19:47] <Set_> I typed "mt" only and found many items.
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  • [03:21:37] <Elray> i think it's a pakege of ubuntu
  • [03:21:45] <Elray> pakage
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  • [03:25:01] <Set_> Oh...okay. I am out then.
  • [03:25:29] <Set_> I guess going to Ubuntu's wiki would get some good background on the issue.
  • [03:26:59] <Set_> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/broadcom-sta-dkms
  • [03:32:55] * dlitz (~dwon@goedel.dlitz.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [03:38:39] <Set_> Elray...try this: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/wireless-tools
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  • [05:47:02] <Set_> I need to reboot. Enjoy...I should be back with more, more, more.
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  • [08:32:52] <palehorse> hey
  • [08:32:56] <palehorse> anyone here?
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  • [08:38:12] <palehorse> ?
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  • [08:41:32] <av500> no
  • [08:41:34] <GrumpeiYokoi> I'm here.... and he's gone
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  • [10:48:39] <kartik> can anyone plz help me to know how to write drivers for beaglebone..
  • [10:48:49] <kartik> im a newbie.. thanx in advance
  • [10:49:43] <av500> https://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/
  • [10:49:54] <av500> assuming you mean kernel drivers
  • [10:53:59] <kartik> sry for asking a silly question .. but how much time it will take me to be a contributor like u guyz
  • [10:54:17] <kartik> i know basics of c and VCS for now
  • [10:57:59] <kartik> and thanx for the link which gives necessary guide to linux kernel driver making
  • [10:58:02] <GrumpeiYokoi> As long as it takes? :)
  • [10:58:11] <GrumpeiYokoi> I wouldn't rush anything.
  • [10:58:51] <GrumpeiYokoi> Or rather, be concerned about some kind of timeframe for contributing.
  • [11:00:42] * Shadyman (~matthew@unaffiliated/shadyman) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [11:01:01] <kartik> thanx.. i love making projects using avr, arduino and have got a strong hold onto it. that made me interested into making drivers for beaglebone
  • [11:01:13] <av500> kartik: there is no "u guyz"
  • [11:01:18] <kartik> can u plz help me by tellling me what all i should learn
  • [11:01:22] * bfederau (~quassel@service.basyskom.com) Quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
  • [11:01:33] <av500> kartik: you are asking the wrong question
  • [11:01:41] <av500> there is no recipe
  • [11:01:46] <av500> just dive in and get going
  • [11:01:59] <av500> and there is the whole internet that you can use
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  • [11:02:07] <kartik> sry av500.. but how to dive in .. whr to start from
  • [11:02:24] <av500> why do you want to "write a driver"
  • [11:02:28] <av500> ?
  • [11:02:39] <av500> are you sure you know what that means?
  • [11:02:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> It begs the question, "a driver for what?"
  • [11:02:57] <av500> if you mean a linux driver, then read https://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/
  • [11:03:19] <av500> if its an "arduino type of driver", you mean a library
  • [11:03:23] <GrumpeiYokoi> I've been itching to write a kernel mode driver for a device we make at work, but I have stalled on that.
  • [11:03:43] <av500> GrumpeiYokoi: the trick is to hand out the device to somebody else
  • [11:03:47] <av500> free driver... :)
  • [11:03:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> The impression I get is that the Linux kernel has a lot more flexibility on implementing drivers than Windows
  • [11:04:23] <GrumpeiYokoi> like, our Windows driver uses pretty much just pipes and ioctl
  • [11:04:43] <GrumpeiYokoi> I suppose there is the capability to do more in Windows, I don't really know.
  • [11:04:47] <kartik> coz i would love to integrate different peripherals and making them work. so thanx for the link.. and then what next..
  • [11:05:03] <GrumpeiYokoi> (By that I mean creating files and character devices)
  • [11:05:16] <GrumpeiYokoi> (It's a USB device btw)
  • [11:05:31] <av500> kartik: I dont know what next
  • [11:05:39] <av500> you read that thing pretty fast
  • [11:05:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> av500: Actually yeah my boss told me that one of our customers did a large chunk of our kernel mode driver for ISA devices
  • [11:05:59] <av500> also you did not answer my questions
  • [11:06:16] <av500> GrumpeiYokoi: your devices secret?
  • [11:06:18] <GrumpeiYokoi> The customer needed to get something working badly enough. So it was a free driver
  • [11:06:36] <GrumpeiYokoi> But it was also a very complicated piece of code, for kernel stuff (I think, anyway)
  • [11:06:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> av500: The secret is love
  • [11:07:12] <kartik> sry av500.. that link was very helpfull and i am very eager to learn it. afterwards what am i supposed to do
  • [11:07:22] <GrumpeiYokoi> The USB driver is just hacked off of the bulkusb example code in the WinDDK (WDK now)
  • [11:07:35] <GrumpeiYokoi> My boss is very pragmatic <___<
  • [11:07:37] <av500> kartik: I am sorry, thats not how it works
  • [11:07:57] <av500> thats not a "learn how to write a driver in a week" link
  • [11:08:09] <av500> [12:02] <av500> why do you want to "write a driver"
  • [11:08:18] <av500> do you know what a driver is?
  • [11:08:46] <kartik> coz i love embedded systems and writing drivers for beagleboard will be fun
  • [11:09:02] <kartik> yes i know..
  • [11:12:08] * kartik (0e8b7937@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.139.121.55) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  • [11:12:20] <av500> le sigh
  • [11:13:11] <GrumpeiYokoi> oui
  • [11:13:14] <GrumpeiYokoi> *le oui
  • [11:13:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> I almost told him to write my driver but I feel bad just foisting work on people. But he seemed so eager...
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  • [11:31:04] <Guest72843> Hi - anyone know how to get /dev/spidev1.0?
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  • [12:09:25] <zmatt> GrumpeiYokoi: I would have proposed rewriting musb, but this time make it work *well*
  • [12:10:17] <GrumpeiYokoi> zmatt: It... seems to work okay in 4.2.5 for me. I haven't had a chance to diff out what voodoo might have changed.
  • [12:11:02] <GrumpeiYokoi> I mainly was looking at the 3.8.13-* progression a couple weeks ago, but bone79 didn't work anyway, so it was kind of a pointless exercise
  • [12:11:18] <GrumpeiYokoi> Rather, it didn't work for the hotplugging issues I was having in particular.
  • [12:11:21] <zmatt> well someone recently observed that enabling DMA support currently makes it *slower*
  • [12:11:31] <zmatt> that's not usually the desired outcome
  • [12:16:04] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah, that's not good. But for my application it's probably not worth worrying about.
  • [12:16:54] <GrumpeiYokoi> Certainly I feel like it's a wrong that should be righted though :/
  • [12:18:32] <zmatt> I was about to say, how egotistical for you to only consider your application! haven't you thought for a moment about how much fun it would be for kartik to fix it!
  • [12:18:35] <zmatt> ;)
  • [12:19:53] <GrumpeiYokoi> LoL
  • [12:20:11] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well he was pretty psyched up
  • [12:23:10] * gusnan (~gusnan@unaffiliated/gusnan) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [12:24:21] <GrumpeiYokoi> Btw I pretty much gave up trying to figure out what was wrong with the element14 images. I tried frankensteining them to be more like the mainline images but I couldn't seem to find what curse was keeping them from working.
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  • [12:25:21] <zmatt> kinda "funny" mmc 2 is the only mmc interface which is directly hooked up to the L3 interconnect rather than the L4LS, yet also the mmc interface least likely to be used for anything on a BBB
  • [12:25:29] <zmatt> the element14 images?
  • [12:25:34] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well, gave up for now. It still pisses me off and I'll probably have another crack at it at a later date.
  • [12:26:11] <GrumpeiYokoi> Oh, sorry I guess I was mainly talking to vere_mit about that (don't want to needlessly beep him).
  • [12:26:22] <GrumpeiYokoi> / them
  • [12:27:12] * zmatt scrolls up
  • [12:27:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> The element14 BBBs out of the box are pretty much not compatible with rcn's linux-image-* packages
  • [12:27:52] * zmatt doesn't see it within the first few pages of scrollback and is too lazy to search further
  • [12:27:58] <GrumpeiYokoi> zmatt: This was from days ago. Probably a week or more ago.
  • [12:27:58] <zmatt> ah
  • [12:28:18] <zmatt> so... reflash them with the latest jessie snapshot, problem solved
  • [12:28:36] <zmatt> why are you trying to animate the living dead?
  • [12:28:39] <GrumpeiYokoi> I didn't know we had a working jessie snapshot
  • [12:28:42] <GrumpeiYokoi> I've been all wheezy
  • [12:28:50] <zmatt> ... poor you
  • [12:29:04] <GrumpeiYokoi> zmatt: To understand what is wrong with them I think is informative
  • [12:29:16] <zmatt> diff?
  • [12:29:42] <GrumpeiYokoi> I have been using the BBBs for about a year and a half but I've mostly been just porting our device code to it
  • [12:29:57] <GrumpeiYokoi> so I wanted to understand the whole system a bit better, and it seemed like a good opportunity
  • [12:30:00] <zmatt> https://rcn-ee.com/rootfs/bb.org/testing/2015-11-15/
  • [12:30:07] <zmatt> latest jessie snapshot
  • [12:30:21] <GrumpeiYokoi> diff of what?
  • [12:30:37] <zmatt> the filesystem with a more recent one I guess
  • [12:30:38] <zmatt> dunno
  • [12:30:58] <GrumpeiYokoi> I did what I could, mainly diffing /boot/* and /etc/kernel/*
  • [12:31:14] <GrumpeiYokoi> And learning as much as I could about uEnv.txt and uboot, etc.
  • [12:31:18] <zmatt> kernel incompatibility is pretty weird
  • [12:31:26] <zmatt> since it doesn't rely on much userland at all
  • [12:31:33] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well, what would happen is you'd try to upgrade the kernel
  • [12:31:43] <GrumpeiYokoi> But they'd be stuck at 3.8.13-bone47 on reboot
  • [12:31:50] <GrumpeiYokoi> Which is what it was shipped with
  • [12:31:56] <zmatt> ohh
  • [12:32:01] <zmatt> they still have a separate boot partition
  • [12:32:03] <zmatt> which isn't /boot
  • [12:32:17] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah it's the fat partition
  • [12:32:24] <zmatt> so the linux-image- package doesn't actually install the kernel in the right place for those systems
  • [12:32:38] <zmatt> iirc it used to use some scripts for updating the kernel instead of actual packages
  • [12:32:59] <zmatt> I think the image probably ships with no linux-image- package installed at all
  • [12:33:00] <zmatt> ?
  • [12:33:01] <GrumpeiYokoi> That may be it, now that you've pointed it out
  • [12:33:09] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well, part of it
  • [12:33:25] <GrumpeiYokoi> I'd have to go back and check, but I'm so sick of debugging that that I've moved on for the time being
  • [12:33:25] <zmatt> a package can't be partly installed
  • [12:33:33] <GrumpeiYokoi> The package installed successfully
  • [12:33:34] <zmatt> I mean installed as in, according to dpkg
  • [12:33:51] <GrumpeiYokoi> But the initrd and vmlinuz and yadda yadda just didn't take effect on reboot
  • [12:34:04] <zmatt> yeah no I meant, as delivered it probably has no linux-image- package installed whatsoever
  • [12:34:06] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well... I dunno it seemed to me that it installed with no errors
  • [12:34:30] <zmatt> which would be a very clear sign that the kernel lives outside package management
  • [12:34:32] <GrumpeiYokoi> The only element14 BBB I haven't reflashed is at work
  • [12:34:43] <GrumpeiYokoi> sort of...
  • [12:34:53] <zmatt> but I'm pretty sure of the above
  • [12:34:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> The uEnv.txt called out zImage explicitly
  • [12:35:06] <GrumpeiYokoi> kernel_image=zImage
  • [12:35:32] <zmatt> separate boot partition not mounted at /boot (but /boot/uboot or something like that iirc)
  • [12:35:32] <GrumpeiYokoi> So when uboot sees that it doesn't go looking for anything else. And zImage is in /boot/uboot
  • [12:35:44] <zmatt> exactly
  • [12:35:57] <GrumpeiYokoi> I was able to update the kernel manually by overwriting the zImage
  • [12:36:03] <zmatt> kernel lives in /boot/uboot outside package management
  • [12:36:04] <GrumpeiYokoi> and the initrd.img file
  • [12:36:17] <zmatt> and iirc it used to be updated using scripts living somewhere in /opt or something
  • [12:36:32] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah
  • [12:36:42] <zmatt> there ya go, problem solved
  • [12:36:48] <zmatt> now go install jessie
  • [12:36:50] <zmatt> :)
  • [12:36:53] <GrumpeiYokoi> Those scripts don't work anymore
  • [12:36:59] <GrumpeiYokoi> I'm afraid of jessie <___<
  • [12:37:03] <GrumpeiYokoi> I just got used to wheezy
  • [12:37:04] <zmatt> that's hardly surprising
  • [12:37:09] <zmatt> wheezy has been officially obsoleted
  • [12:37:33] <zmatt> hell I think my own makefiles don't even work on wheezy because it's "make" is too old
  • [12:37:37] <GrumpeiYokoi> I will do what my customer tells me to do, unless they're being complete idiots
  • [12:37:52] <GrumpeiYokoi> They wanted to stick with 3.8.13-bone74 for no apparent reason
  • [12:37:55] <zmatt> just remind them that wheezy is declared obsolete by the debian project
  • [12:38:16] <GrumpeiYokoi> this is a company that to this day still buys ISA card devices from us
  • [12:38:24] <GrumpeiYokoi> Do you think they care about obsolete? :D
  • [12:38:36] <zmatt> and rcn-ee actually said out loud he no longer really cares about anything older than 4.1
  • [12:38:57] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well I am not having problems with kernel version 4.2.5-bone2 so far
  • [12:38:59] <zmatt> if they care about security updates
  • [12:39:10] <GrumpeiYokoi> But, jessie vs. wheezy has more to do with userland packages, right?
  • [12:39:16] <zmatt> yes
  • [12:39:23] <GrumpeiYokoi> So... I'm not sure if i care about moving to jessie
  • [12:39:25] <zmatt> I run stretch actually
  • [12:39:27] <GrumpeiYokoi> unless it becomes a problem
  • [12:39:42] <zmatt> wheezy no longer receives security updates
  • [12:39:47] <zmatt> or, updates period
  • [12:39:50] <GrumpeiYokoi> It does seem like some of the packages I use are wildly out of date, like svn though
  • [12:40:05] <GrumpeiYokoi> It's in 1.6 era? That seems ancient
  • [12:40:12] <zmatt> hello, it's debian
  • [12:40:23] <zmatt> debian stable normally already has wildly out of date packages
  • [12:40:37] <zmatt> if debian declares something obsolete, you can be pretty sure it *really* is
  • [12:40:39] <GrumpeiYokoi> you know, I guess I'd heard that, but it didn't really click until now
  • [12:40:46] <GrumpeiYokoi> I mainly use Fedora at home
  • [12:40:55] <zmatt> look at your systemd version
  • [12:40:57] <GrumpeiYokoi> And it seems... mostly up to date
  • [12:42:05] <zmatt> your fedora presumably uses systemd-networkd instead of.. whatever it used to use before that?
  • [12:43:13] <zmatt> on debian you need stretch for that since even jessie ships with too ancient systemd
  • [12:43:24] <zmatt> (well, it sort-of-works on jessie but you don't even have "networkctl")
  • [12:43:52] <GrumpeiYokoi> systemd --version returns "unknown option?" in red
  • [12:43:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> on this BBB
  • [12:44:08] <zmatt> lol
  • [12:44:16] <GrumpeiYokoi> yeah...
  • [12:44:23] <zmatt> try apt-cache policy systemd
  • [12:45:43] <GrumpeiYokoi> 44-11+deb7u4 ?
  • [12:45:51] <zmatt> LOL
  • [12:45:55] <zmatt> systemd 44 ?
  • [12:45:56] <zmatt> what?
  • [12:46:09] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah I'm not sure what any of this is
  • [12:46:11] <zmatt> hahahaha
  • [12:46:35] <GrumpeiYokoi> http://pastebin.com/BLYHqPDp
  • [12:46:56] <zmatt> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/ look at the date for systemd-44
  • [12:47:22] <zmatt> (also, yay for a directory listing that actually correctly sorts numbers)
  • [12:47:31] <GrumpeiYokoi> heh
  • [12:47:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> See I thought by your reaction that the version number seemed way too high
  • [12:47:59] <GrumpeiYokoi> But yeah, party like it's 2012 I guess
  • [12:48:26] <zmatt> mostly because it was a 2-digit number while I haven't seen anything below 200 in quite a while
  • [12:49:25] <zmatt> it felt a bit like reporting a 2.6.* kernel or something
  • [12:49:57] <GrumpeiYokoi> Wonder if anyone is pushing a devuan BBB image out there
  • [12:50:27] <zmatt> why on earth would you want to
  • [12:50:51] <GrumpeiYokoi> I don't care, but systemd is divisive, last I checked
  • [12:51:15] <GrumpeiYokoi> In fact, it is every time I check
  • [12:51:23] <GrumpeiYokoi> People can't seem to stop arguing about it
  • [12:52:06] <zmatt> plenty of complainy people yeah, but for me, every time I replaced some crufty bunch of old scripts by a systemd equivalent the result was a system that worked better in some way (often by reducing boot time)
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  • [12:53:25] <zmatt> package.debian.org is useful btw for getting an overview of where the various releases are w.r.t. package versions, e.g. https://packages.debian.org/search?arch=armhf&keywords=systemd
  • [12:54:17] <GrumpeiYokoi> Cool, thanks. I have scoured repository sites before in moments of desperation :)
  • [12:54:36] <zmatt> just install jessie :P
  • [12:54:47] <GrumpeiYokoi> Moreso when I had problems with Angstrom, though.
  • [12:54:58] <GrumpeiYokoi> Can you migrate from wheezy to jessie without reflashing?
  • [12:55:17] <zmatt> if you like a trainwreck
  • [12:55:25] <zmatt> the issue isn't so much wheezy/jessie
  • [12:55:33] <zmatt> but the non-package-managed-stuff of rcn-ee
  • [12:55:53] <GrumpeiYokoi> like?
  • [12:56:03] <zmatt> oh wait, you're on a recent wheezy image
  • [12:56:09] <zmatt> so those should be in sync on that part
  • [12:56:13] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah it's from July I believe
  • [12:56:23] <GrumpeiYokoi> I know there's a newer one
  • [12:56:32] <zmatt> ok, not-too-ancient at least
  • [12:56:35] <GrumpeiYokoi> For wheezy anyway
  • [12:56:46] <zmatt> latest is november yeah
  • [12:57:07] <zmatt> then dunno, I've never tried it on a BBB
  • [12:57:19] <zmatt> though I've done dist-upgrades on my laptop often enough
  • [12:57:29] <zmatt> well, I've done dist-upgrades
  • [12:57:38] <zmatt> not that often since I usually very quickly end up using sid
  • [12:57:57] <zmatt> after finding out even testing had a too-ancient version of some package
  • [12:58:51] <GrumpeiYokoi> Migrating major versions of Fedora is kind of a pain imo
  • [12:59:10] <zmatt> for our BBBs I started out with a jessie console image, removed unnecessary cruft, upgraded to stretch, and then started installing packages we needed
  • [12:59:11] <GrumpeiYokoi> Ubuntu makes it a snap *shakes fist at their aptitude*
  • [12:59:38] <zmatt> too bad aptitude is reeaaaaaaly slow on a BBB
  • [12:59:44] <GrumpeiYokoi> *shakes fist at my own pun*
  • [12:59:54] <zmatt> I still use it though
  • [13:00:15] <GrumpeiYokoi> Why would aptitude be any slower on a BBB vs. desktop?
  • [13:00:28] <GrumpeiYokoi> or laptop, etc
  • [13:00:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> Unless there was some kind of bug that only shows up on maybe arm machines
  • [13:01:33] <GrumpeiYokoi> Would be nice if I could just have another computer download all the packages and then just stream them over my LAN for install or something
  • [13:01:37] <zmatt> I suspect both the slowness of a cortex-a8 compared to a quad-core intel core i5-2520M @ 2.5 GHz
  • [13:01:47] <zmatt> and the slowness of eMMC
  • [13:02:11] <zmatt> aptitude is already slow on my laptop
  • [13:02:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well, I always figured that package managers were as slow as the servers they're talking to
  • [13:02:56] <zmatt> no
  • [13:03:14] <zmatt> aptitude's UI is so slow on a BBB it's unbearable
  • [13:03:31] <GrumpeiYokoi> I'm doing everything in terminal
  • [13:03:42] <GrumpeiYokoi> I've barely touched an X session on these things
  • [13:03:50] <zmatt> curses ui
  • [13:04:00] <GrumpeiYokoi> ok
  • [13:04:07] <zmatt> I don't even have any X installed or display attached on most BBBs
  • [13:04:12] <zmatt> (in fact, all but one)
  • [13:04:59] <GrumpeiYokoi> Come to think of it, apt-cache has been slow for me sometimes
  • [13:05:09] <GrumpeiYokoi> maybe slow search algorithms or something
  • [13:05:42] <zmatt> keep an eye on the CPU and MMC leds, that should tell you which is the limiting factor
  • [13:05:46] <GrumpeiYokoi> Or bad code optimization *shrug*
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  • [13:09:21] <zmatt> even if a dist-upgrade works, reflashing may be a lot faster, especially if you have lots of crap installed
  • [13:09:44] <zmatt> also, keep in mind you'd need to have enough free MMC to first download the package before they're installed
  • [13:10:04] <zmatt> if you have a console image it may work, a GUI image... phat chance
  • [13:11:01] <GrumpeiYokoi> I suppose I could do it on an SD card
  • [13:11:03] <zmatt> I also try to purge accumulated cruft now and then
  • [13:11:16] <GrumpeiYokoi> (If larger than 4 GB)
  • [13:11:23] <zmatt> nfs
  • [13:11:35] * ogra_ (~ogra_@p5098ed03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [13:11:42] <GrumpeiYokoi> I have no idea how to do that
  • [13:11:53] <GrumpeiYokoi> I looked, it looked like Greek to me
  • [13:12:23] <GrumpeiYokoi> Well, I actually know some ancient Greek. Let's say it looked like Korean, of which I know nothing.
  • [13:12:28] <zmatt> fair enough. or just on a big host machine inside a systemd-nspawn ... with a bit of luck the speediness of a big cpu may even outweigh the overhead of qemu
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  • [13:12:57] <zmatt> (yes, you can enter a BBB image using something like chroot or nspawn)
  • [13:13:00] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah I was thinking earlier that doing it in an emulator would be nice if I could swing it
  • [13:13:17] <zmatt> at least on debian it's trivially easy
  • [13:13:32] <GrumpeiYokoi> I read about it a bit in Derek Molloy's book
  • [13:13:55] <GrumpeiYokoi> I had other things on my mind at the time though, so didn't really get my hands too dirty
  • [13:15:31] <zmatt> install qemu-user-static, copy /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static to $targetfs/usr/bin/
  • [13:15:40] <zmatt> systemd-nspawn -D $targetfs
  • [13:16:01] <zmatt> and you got a shell inside your targetfs, even though it's an armhf one
  • [13:16:32] <zmatt> very useful for repairing a borked BBB
  • [13:18:41] <zmatt> and at least *recent* systemd version also seem quite aware of the fact you're inside an nspawn and don't try to do anything too silly
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  • [13:20:23] <Bobodk> Is there a new revision of the beaglebone black, since it's out of stock everywhere
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  • [13:27:51] <zmatt> dx.com has 'em
  • [13:28:35] <zmatt> http://www.dx.com/p/-318741
  • [13:30:07] <zmatt> there's no new revision
  • [13:30:44] <GrumpeiYokoi> element14 (newark) seems to have 4000 of them
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  • [13:31:12] <zmatt> oh he left already
  • [13:31:40] <zmatt> argh @ people with hit-and-run questions
  • [13:31:42] <GrumpeiYokoi> I turned off conference mode in this channel, and still missed it XD
  • [13:32:12] <zmatt> yeah I hide all join/part/quit noise since there's just too much of it here
  • [13:32:40] <zmatt> I just add exceptions if I need to pounce someone on sight
  • [13:32:41] <GrumpeiYokoi> Um..... it's not really that noisey here in that regard. Everyone seems to lurk a lot here
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  • [13:33:00] <GrumpeiYokoi> I used to be on the llvm channel and that was pretty bad so i kept conference mode on
  • [13:33:14] <GrumpeiYokoi> Or when someone is having ping out problems it can get pretty annoying
  • [13:35:01] <GrumpeiYokoi> zmatt: Do you happen to know what controls auto mounting of removable media on these things? Is it just a bunch of udev rules? I hope not, b/c I hate reading udev rules files. I'm not having a problem, everything seems to work great, just trying to learn or at least get an idea of where to look.
  • [13:37:10] <GrumpeiYokoi> e.g. /media/BEAGLEBONE from the SD card shows up, as does its rootfs; my USB flash drive shows up as /media/its_proper_tag_name. It's all lovely.
  • [13:37:43] <zmatt> probably some daemon doing that, udisks or something
  • [13:38:09] <zmatt> it won't be done for you on a bare console image
  • [13:38:21] <GrumpeiYokoi> Really? That's interesting.
  • [13:38:45] <zmatt> definitely not merely a udev rule
  • [13:38:58] <GrumpeiYokoi> Is udisks a daemon that is only installed for systems that use X?
  • [13:39:34] <GrumpeiYokoi> I've written one udev file and it was to allow our company's USB device to be accessible without root access
  • [13:40:16] <GrumpeiYokoi> And I felt like I was taking a lot of leaps of faith in writing it. The documentation seemed vague to me at the time. Maybe I know more now...
  • [13:40:36] <zmatt> it's installed as part of some desktop environments... my laptop's spartan installation doesn't have it even though I have X
  • [13:40:51] <GrumpeiYokoi> And it would auto allocate 'files' under /dev/ but not /media, certaintly
  • [13:41:15] <zmatt> indeed udev is responsible for /dev
  • [13:43:00] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah certainly that makes perfect sense. Earlier today in my mind I was conflating the automatic naming of files in /dev with the automatic naming and mounting of devices in /media. I kind of realized this error as I was talking to you. Sorry about that :x
  • [13:44:13] <zmatt> it is raining...
  • [13:44:16] <zmatt> I do not approve
  • [13:45:04] <GrumpeiYokoi> I'll trade you :3
  • [13:45:18] <GrumpeiYokoi> It's all warm and lightly sunny here
  • [13:45:54] <GrumpeiYokoi> In spite of being nearly December in the northern hemisphere
  • [13:49:42] <zmatt> did you know braids are orderable?
  • [13:49:48] <zmatt> https://perso.univ-rennes1.fr/bertold.wiest/bouquin.pdf
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  • [13:52:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> I did not
  • [13:52:58] <av500> zmatt: I ordered some from China
  • [13:54:03] <GrumpeiYokoi> On a side note, I was reading yesterday that a professor in Nigeria is claiming to have cracked the Riemann Zeta Hypothesis
  • [13:55:16] <GrumpeiYokoi> He said it took 7 years, but I wonder if he is just trying to copy Andrew Wiles because that's how long he said it took him to do Fermat's Last.
  • [13:56:00] <zmatt> it's just called the "Riemann Hypothesis" ... and I'll wait for the reviews of his publication :P
  • [13:56:33] <GrumpeiYokoi> Now you're being pedantic :)
  • [13:56:34] <zmatt> don't forget Wiles also screwed up the first attempt and needed whole different tooling to repair it
  • [13:56:41] <GrumpeiYokoi> It's for the Zeta function or whatever
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  • [13:57:01] <GrumpeiYokoi> It's been a long time since I looked at it. Took a crack at it myself but I was a noob.
  • [13:57:05] <zmatt> hehe
  • [13:57:33] <zmatt> like Fermat's Last, you can be reasonably sure the proof won't fit in the margin here either
  • [13:58:21] <GrumpeiYokoi> I am kneejerk suspicious of any mathematical proof that is like 100 pages
  • [13:58:49] <GrumpeiYokoi> But I guess that might be the reality for some of these 'simple' conjectures
  • [13:59:56] <zmatt> which is why the Clay Mathematics Institute requires the proof to withstand a year of scrutiny
  • [14:00:18] <GrumpeiYokoi> I have definitely looked at some of the proofs on blog for fermat's last theorem and I have seen the guy on there use some very roundabout methods to arrive at conclusions that would have taken 20 less steps, for example
  • [14:00:27] <GrumpeiYokoi> *on a blog for ...
  • [14:00:44] <zmatt> I know the proof has been simplified since the original version
  • [14:00:56] <GrumpeiYokoi> The article I was reading said two years of scrutiny in a major journal, iirc
  • [14:01:01] <zmatt> it's easier once you know the route to the solution to start optimizing that route
  • [14:01:15] <zmatt> could be, something like that in any case
  • [14:01:47] <zmatt> if you don't yet quite know the tools you need, it makes sense to construct overpowered tools
  • [14:02:09] <GrumpeiYokoi> Yeah, certainly. I had that happen to me recently even.
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  • [14:02:49] <zmatt> Perelman also didn't prove Poincaré conjecture... he proved something vastly more general which just had the Poincaré conjecture as corollary
  • [14:03:12] <GrumpeiYokoi> Right on Perelman
  • [14:03:18] <GrumpeiYokoi> good game
  • [14:03:46] <GrumpeiYokoi> I didn't realize until recently that there's this ABC conjecture that sits above Fermat's Last Theorem which is still unproven
  • [14:04:05] <GrumpeiYokoi> These damn prime numbers are the root of all mathematical suffering, it seems
  • [14:04:31] * GrumpeiYokoi writes to congress to ban all prime numbers
  • [14:04:49] <zmatt> we need 'em for crypto
  • [14:05:03] <av500> all they do is to help terrorists
  • [14:05:07] <GrumpeiYokoi> If you're not guilty of anything, you don't need crypto
  • [14:05:22] <GrumpeiYokoi> We'll have no secrets, the world will be filled with peace and harmony :3
  • [14:05:27] <av500> if you use it, you are guilty of using it
  • [14:06:18] <GrumpeiYokoi> I live in a state that at one time rounded pi to 3.2 by law. I think we can make a prime number ban happen.
  • [14:06:51] <zmatt> it would also adversely impact the maintainability of INTERCAL code, since the Google INTERCAL Style Guide advises:
  • [14:06:55] <zmatt> "In addition to the above rules, you should always use composite numbers when writing new code. Prime numbers are reserved for use by other parts of the code to fall back on when they run out of numbers in their designated block."
  • [14:09:10] <philenotfound> while you are at it, also ban NULL, only slows down economy growth by crashing apps pointing to it.
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  • [14:10:07] <philenotfound> and whitespace, bringing down enterprise-level business logic shell scripts
  • [14:10:16] <zmatt> you can turn them into NullPointerExceptions though, now also on ARM thanks to this little snippet of code I wrote -> https://github.com/mvduin/arm-signal-unwind
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  • [14:14:30] <philenotfound> zmatt: that's just lipstick on a pig
  • [14:17:11] <zmatt> actually I needed it to catch bus errors when probing peripherals
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  • [15:08:26] <GrumpeiYokoi> zmatt: You were right, it was the udisks service / daemon
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  • [15:09:13] <GrumpeiYokoi> So I owe you a coke
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  • [15:25:45] <zmatt> lol
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  • [16:12:42] <niro> Anyone have any experience with javame?
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  • [23:03:24] <jkridner> niro: why bother with javame?
  • [23:03:30] <jkridner> why not use the full thing?
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  • [23:09:38] <jkridner> ikmaak: ask me, but ask me here!
  • [23:09:44] <jkridner> that way it goes in the logs, etc.
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  • [23:09:57] <jkridner> Seeed BeagleBone Green support went mainline for both kernel and u-boot.
  • [23:09:59] <jkridner> u-boot: http://git.denx.de/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=u-boot.git;a=commit;h=dfd1bb4ec89e8b1e87f0605af2345ad6dcf777da
  • [23:10:38] <ikmaak> thank you
  • [23:11:02] <jkridner> that includes a link to the patch in the kernel mainline: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=79a4e64c679d8a0b1037da174e4aea578c80c4e6
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  • [23:36:43] <ds2> project "moldy"? :D
  • [23:37:03] <GenTooMan> maybe it's in the spore stage?
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