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  • [00:00:30] * Topic is 'http://beagleboard.org/chat has a guide on how to ask questions and links to the logs | never ask to ask, just ask | be patient | pastebin a boot log | http://ahsoftware.de/Beaglebone_Black_Boot_explained.svg | http://beagleboard.org/latest-images | http://beagleboard.org/Support/bone101 | direct bonescript/node.js questions to #beagle-bonescript | books: http://bit.ly/bbb-books'
  • [00:00:30] * Set by KotH!~attila@erica.kinali.ch on Wed Jul 15 13:55:07 UTC 2015
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  • [00:00:52] <yates> this is the old generation board? is it what they call the beaglebone white?
  • [00:01:23] <yates> zmatt: yeah, i just fetched some changes that happened in the last couple of days.
  • [00:01:49] <zmatt> there's the original beagleboard (omap35xx), beagleboard-xM (dm37xx), beaglebone white (am335x r1), beaglebone black (am335x r2), and upcoming beagleboard-x15 (am572x)
  • [00:02:15] <zmatt> for beaglebone the two most relevant repos afaik are:
  • [00:02:44] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/bb-kernel/releases # build scripts and patches, for if you want to (re)build your own kernel based on a -bone kernel
  • [00:03:03] <yates> ok, please go on.
  • [00:03:22] <zmatt> and the one I previously linked to, which contains the effective source tree as produced by the scripts
  • [00:03:38] <yates> why do you mean by the term "source tree"?
  • [00:03:44] <yates> s/why/what/
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  • [00:04:48] <yates> just the directory tree?
  • [00:05:16] <zmatt> well, just look at
  • [00:05:17] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/bb-kernel/tree/4.2-bone2
  • [00:05:19] <zmatt> versus
  • [00:05:22] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/tree/4.2-bone2
  • [00:05:29] <zmatt> and it should be clear what i mean
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  • [00:09:06] <zmatt> there's also https://github.com/RobertCNelson/stable-kernel which appears to be the similar to bb-kernel but I think for the older beagleboards
  • [00:09:31] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-dev is afaik the main development repo for all of these
  • [00:10:49] <zmatt> rcn-ee should really make a short overview of all these repos and how they interrelate and put it up somewhere
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  • [00:11:10] <yates> yes!
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  • [00:11:59] <zmatt> but, back to your original question
  • [00:12:20] <yates> what's the difference between https://github.com/RobertCNelson/bb-kernel/tree/4.2-bone2 and https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-dev? they're both a repo of scripts to build the kernel, right?
  • [00:12:40] <zmatt> linux-dev is devel, and by default won't build a -bone kernel
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  • [00:13:07] <yates> ah, ok.
  • [00:14:58] <zmatt> while if you do ./build_deb.sh in bb-kernel tag 4.2-bone2 (branch am33x-v4.2) you should get a linux-image-4.2.0-bone2 debian package similar to the one you get rcn-ee's debian repository
  • [00:15:10] <zmatt> *get from
  • [00:15:47] <yates> ha.
  • [00:16:04] <yates> i was just goign to ask you about building the entire img (rootfs and all)
  • [00:16:24] <zmatt> also useful link to have: https://rcn-ee.com/rootfs/bb.org/testing/ various recent rootfs images
  • [00:16:38] <zmatt> but I don't know what scripts he uses for them, I've never build one from scratch
  • [00:17:30] <zmatt> I just take a minimalistic console image, install the stuff I want, and them use that beaglebone as a template (taking care to avoid copying things like ssh host keys etc)
  • [00:17:40] <yates> i saw somewhere where he had a few choices, like a very small rootfs
  • [00:17:52] <zmatt> console is the most basic one
  • [00:18:08] <yates> are these scripts for crossbuilding, e.g., under fedora?
  • [00:18:19] <zmatt> although even there some useless packages snuck in last time I checked ;)
  • [00:18:26] <zmatt> no these are simply the output images
  • [00:18:36] <zmatt> I don't know anything about the build scripts for them
  • [00:19:26] <zmatt> so, original question...
  • [00:19:29] <yates> ok
  • [00:19:45] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/tree/4.2-bone2/arch/arm/boot/dts shows a couple of am335x-boneblack*.dts flavors
  • [00:20:43] <zmatt> nearly all seem to include capemgr
  • [00:22:49] <zmatt> it seems that's no universal dts for boneblack+eMMC without bone capemgr
  • [00:23:09] <zmatt> *generic dts
  • [00:23:29] <zmatt> I should avoid the word "universal" since it's used for the hideous "universal overlay" :P
  • [00:23:47] <yates> lol - hideous.
  • [00:24:43] <zmatt> but look at am335x-cape-bbb-exp-r.dts for example
  • [00:24:54] <yates> ok, excellent. thanks much, zmatt.
  • [00:25:07] <zmatt> or better yet
  • [00:25:32] <yates> fyi, we're spinning our own custom board and throwing away some of the hardware we don't need (like the video driver 19988, etc.)
  • [00:26:21] <yates> and my job is to see what that is goign to screw up and / or if we can fix it in software.
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  • [00:27:10] <zmatt> just look at the various am335x-boneblack*.dts files
  • [00:27:22] <yates> right
  • [00:27:27] <zmatt> but basically you need am335x-bone-common-no-capemgr.dtsi
  • [00:27:41] <zmatt> and two dtsi files for eMMC
  • [00:27:48] <zmatt> (that's normally a "virtual cape")
  • [00:28:41] <yates> zmatt: when are these (compiled) overlays loaded? at boot time? after uboot?
  • [00:28:42] <zmatt> I don't really understand why am335x-bone-common-no-capemgr.dtsi is so much copy-pastework instead of just including one in the other
  • [00:29:11] <zmatt> uboot loads the kernel, initrd, and dtb and then executes the kernel with initrd and dtb as arguments
  • [00:29:17] <zmatt> actually
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  • [00:29:45] <zmatt> it unpacks the device tree, patches some things, and then passes that to the kernel
  • [00:30:08] <zmatt> for example the /memory is filled in by u-boot
  • [00:30:26] <yates> another thing we're doing is throwing away the EEPROM on I2C0. do you think that's going to hang the boot?
  • [00:30:31] <zmatt> yes
  • [00:30:35] <zmatt> but
  • [00:30:41] <zmatt> easy to patch in u-boot
  • [00:31:07] <zmatt> it reads the board type from it and tests for that in various places
  • [00:31:15] <zmatt> replace by hardcoded board type
  • [00:31:25] <yates> right. let me quit asking stupid questions and do some research. thanks a BUNCH!
  • [00:31:47] <zmatt> btw, a useful thing to know if you make derivatives of device-trees
  • [00:31:52] <zmatt> and I think not well known
  • [00:32:00] * yates is all ears
  • [00:32:55] <zmatt> usually every chunk of device tree source just adds nodes (if not already exist) and adds/replaces properties
  • [00:33:35] <yates> yeah, what creates the "root device tree"?
  • [00:33:48] <zmatt> the first chunk of a dts
  • [00:33:53] <zmatt> always begins with / {
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  • [00:34:12] <zmatt> but, little-known is that you can also delete nodes/properties that were previously defined
  • [00:34:15] <zmatt> like
  • [00:34:18] <zmatt> {
  • [00:34:24] <zmatt> /delete-node/ bone_capemgr;
  • [00:34:24] <zmatt> }
  • [00:35:42] <zmatt> (just taking an example here, you should actually remove bone_capemgr by not introducing it in the first place since there's more to it than just the /bone_capemgr node, there's also the i2c stuff which is elsewhere in the dts)
  • [00:35:56] <zmatt> similarly there's a /delete-property/ directive
  • [00:36:05] <yates> ok. but wouldn't it be better to just modify whatever .dts so the node is not created in the first place/
  • [00:36:07] <yates> yeah.
  • [00:36:18] <yates> ?
  • [00:36:28] <yates> s&/&?&
  • [00:36:29] <zmatt> yes but sometimes a dtsi will configure sensible defaults
  • [00:36:43] <yates> with an exception or two?
  • [00:36:47] <zmatt> but in some cases you may want to override that
  • [00:37:01] <zmatt> and in some cases overriding would consist of deleting a property
  • [00:37:37] <zmatt> like bone-common has &tps { ti,pmic-shutdown-controller; };
  • [00:38:04] <zmatt> which makes sure that upon shutdown the pmic does into OFF-state rather than SLEEP-state (aka "RTC-only mode")
  • [00:38:28] <yates> where is it defined which .dts files are used? is it in a uboot script or in some C source?
  • [00:38:47] <zmatt> if you made really really sure that your board is compatible with RTC-only mode then you could override bone-common by deleting that property
  • [00:39:16] <zmatt> (see comments in bone-common for details, if you actually happen to care about RTC-only mode)
  • [00:39:48] <zmatt> startup script of u-boot
  • [00:40:01] <zmatt> and, indirectly, /boot/uEnv.sh
  • [00:40:12] <yates> what else would there be? (besides RTC)?
  • [00:40:22] <zmatt> hmm?
  • [00:40:50] <yates> RTC-only mode. i don't understand what that's about.
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  • [00:41:04] <yates> i know there's the RTC in the AM335x
  • [00:41:09] <zmatt> RTC-only mode means the whole system is off but the RTC remains powered
  • [00:41:16] <zmatt> so you don't lose your date & time settings
  • [00:41:45] <yates> well, we need to wake up every N seconds (about 12 hours)
  • [00:42:31] <zmatt> are you running on battery power?
  • [00:44:25] * kunalg (~kunalg@14.139.160.230) Quit (Quit: kunalg)
  • [00:44:36] <zmatt> either way, I'd say use suspend to RAM, then the RTC also remains operational
  • [00:46:01] <yates> yes
  • [00:46:31] <yates> we have two modes, one we're connected to a power source and don't care about power, the other is minimizing energy on a battery
  • [00:47:24] <yates> yeah, but ram has to stay powered on, right?
  • [00:47:47] <yates> is it minimal draw when not changing?
  • [00:48:02] <zmatt> ram draw low but non-negligible power
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  • [00:49:49] <zmatt> the alternative is save some state and shutdown (or suspend-to-disk, although flash won't like that) and use an external RTC to power up the system again
  • [00:50:11] <yates> we're trying to run for at least 30 days on a 5AH battery
  • [00:50:11] <zmatt> there are RTCs that draw typical 0.15 μA
  • [00:50:30] <yates> there's an rta in the AM335x right?
  • [00:50:32] <yates> rtc
  • [00:50:42] <zmatt> yes, you can also use that
  • [00:50:43] <zmatt> but
  • [00:50:53] <zmatt> you'll need to fix the power supply scheme of the beaglebone
  • [00:51:00] <yates> oh?
  • [00:51:02] <yates> fix???
  • [00:51:09] <yates> repair?
  • [00:51:16] <zmatt> yes, it's buggy in all releases
  • [00:51:21] <zmatt> different bugs though
  • [00:51:22] <yates> ah shit.
  • [00:51:42] <zmatt> the PMIC is also buggy, especially if no battery power is present
  • [00:52:14] <yates> you mean the TPS65217c?
  • [00:52:37] <yates> i didn't want to hear this...
  • [00:52:50] <zmatt> yeah, use a TPS65217d if you have the choice (the c defaults to ddr3, reconfigured to ddr3l by u-boot. the d defaults to ddr3l)
  • [00:53:10] <zmatt> the TPS bugs seems to disappear however if a battery is used
  • [00:53:39] <yates> you mean on pins 4,5 ?
  • [00:53:45] <zmatt> BAT, BATMON, TS
  • [00:54:04] <zmatt> although even that's kinda suboptimal
  • [00:54:21] <yates> BATMON == BAT_SENSE?
  • [00:54:44] <zmatt> since you have no indication of consumption, remaining charge, etc
  • [00:54:48] <zmatt> yes
  • [00:55:27] <yates> i think we're going to do our own battery state algorithm
  • [00:55:52] <yates> coloumb counting or whatnot
  • [00:56:46] <zmatt> yeah, measure or estimate the current, integrate over time
  • [00:57:09] <zmatt> anyhow, the main issues with power on the bbb are:
  • [00:57:12] * Gareth (~garethFre@znc.wiked.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [00:57:34] <zmatt> 1. multiple 3.3V power domains which are not properly sequenced
  • [00:58:02] <yates> let me preempt this with, "but it works!"
  • [00:58:12] <zmatt> 2. cpu pin "VDDS" is connected to LDO1 instead of LDO3 -- there's still a not-placed resistor to undo that
  • [00:58:34] <zmatt> let me add to that "for now"
  • [00:58:51] <zmatt> but without fixes, RTC-only mode will draw a lot of current
  • [01:00:30] <zmatt> some of my findings can btw be found at:
  • [01:01:38] <zmatt> http://elinux.org/BeagleBone_Power_Management
  • [01:01:48] <zmatt> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/7sxPePT7wkM/3vFMPydR20IJ and follow-up posts
  • [01:02:58] <yates> cool - thank you!
  • [01:03:47] <zmatt> also, while changing things, consider using a GPIO for the ethernet PHY reset to avoid this -> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/beagleboard/9mctrG26Mc8%5B1-25%5D
  • [01:04:15] <zmatt> more power stuff:
  • [01:04:16] <zmatt> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beaglebone/CKuTbHepHYE/qCEuTD5bGcsJ
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  • [01:05:22] <zmatt> that also contains a link to a TI support question (never answered) about VDDS:
  • [01:05:26] <zmatt> https://e2e.ti.com/support/arm/sitara_arm/f/791/t/421756
  • [01:05:48] * Humpelstilzchen (erik@f054180139.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [01:06:14] <yates> would any of this change with the AM3352 instead of the AM3359?
  • [01:06:21] <yates> that's what we're using
  • [01:06:36] <yates> "this" meaning just about anything we've discussed tonight.
  • [01:06:37] <zmatt> no, same cpu, just some features disabled
  • [01:07:14] <zmatt> all AM335x varieties are basically just "speed/feature bins" based on factory testing
  • [01:07:23] <zmatt> the die revision however *is* important
  • [01:07:35] <yates> yeah, figured.
  • [01:07:36] <zmatt> you need rev 2.1 (die code 'B')
  • [01:07:54] <yates> you mean the latest?
  • [01:08:10] <zmatt> yes
  • [01:08:35] <yates> got it.
  • [01:08:45] <zmatt> or maybe rev A works too, would need to check the errata, but rev A has completely broken rtc-only mode
  • [01:08:48] <zmatt> eh
  • [01:08:48] <zmatt> rev 0
  • [01:09:02] <zmatt> rev 1 / die code <blank> I mean
  • [01:09:16] <zmatt> so annoying they don't use die code 'A' for the initial release
  • [01:12:51] <zmatt> reducing power consumption is probably also going to be a "fun" exercise
  • [01:13:13] <zmatt> lots and lots of little tuning knobs that probably nobody ever really looked at
  • [01:13:22] <yates> oh boy.
  • [01:13:38] <yates> while i've got your attention, lemme ask something else...
  • [01:17:33] <yates> have you ever used one of Telit's cellular modules with linux? e.g., an LE910? it appears that with a usb connection to it and the libqmi library you can get a network interface pretty easily.
  • [01:21:39] <yates> the other method seems to be using pppd and chat over the serial port.
  • [01:21:51] <yates> do you know of any preferences?
  • [01:25:15] <zmatt> try finding an SDIO module that has a linux driver
  • [01:25:21] <zmatt> mmc2 is still entirely available
  • [01:25:27] <zmatt> usb is buggy as shit
  • [01:25:41] <zmatt> and ppp over serial... oh come on
  • [01:25:49] <yates> ?
  • [01:26:00] <zmatt> I think TI WiLink interfaces over sdio
  • [01:26:48] <yates> our hardware is already chosen and set in stone.
  • [01:30:09] * drkfdr (~darkfader@2001:610:600:896d:1422:ad8b:6890:bf90) Quit (Quit: drkfdr)
  • [01:30:47] <zmatt> ok, you're aware for example that USB DMA support is disabled in the kernel due to bugs?
  • [01:32:10] <yates> no....
  • [01:32:29] <zmatt> the hardware is actually designed for USB OTG ... so it's more an USB peripheral (gadget) controller that also happens to be able to act as an USB host
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  • [01:32:53] <zmatt> supporting
  • [01:33:19] <zmatt> supporting multiple devices via a hub (which is optional for OTG) is even worse
  • [01:33:38] <yates> we're just talking to one device: the le910
  • [01:33:46] <zmatt> that will hopefully help
  • [01:33:56] <zmatt> and might even mean you can enable DMA support
  • [01:34:01] <yates> actually we're not even using a connector, just wireing up DM, DP, and sense
  • [01:34:15] <zmatt> and ID (to ground)
  • [01:34:27] <yates> yes
  • [01:35:30] <yates> so we'll fire up our first board and it's just gonna work, right?
  • [01:35:38] <yates> :)
  • [01:36:03] <yates> i tried convincing them to buy a JTAG, but they want to wait til we have a dead piece of hardware..
  • [01:36:14] <zmatt> w.r.t. power supply scheme: if you have separate 3V3A and 3V3B rails like the BBB does, and you have a serial port buffer/isolater like the BBB does, connect that thing to 3V3A !!!!
  • [01:36:42] <zmatt> absolutely include a JTAG port (TI-14 is easier to find connectors and cables than cTI-20)
  • [01:37:03] <zmatt> and get an XDS100v2 adapter.. they're dirt cheap
  • [01:37:42] <yates> we were going to go with a \href{https://www.segger.com/j-link-plus.html}{Segger J-Link PLUS} & \$598 USD\\
  • [01:38:09] <zmatt> I've heard that name before but never used it
  • [01:39:03] <zmatt> also, actually, put a cTI-20 header on the board... the headers are not particularly expensive afaik and for example the XDS100v2 usually includes an adapter to connect to cTI-20
  • [01:39:57] <zmatt> having EMU0-4 available rather than just EMU0-1 means that in theory you can get reasonable bandwidth real-time trace data export, though I don't know anyone who's ever tried (let alone succeeded) to get that to work
  • [01:40:49] <zmatt> but debugging fresh hardware or a custom bootloader without jtag is hell
  • [01:41:12] * shoragan (~shoragan@debian/developer/shoragan) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [01:41:28] <yates> well, it'll be a two day delay to order the part and get it in.
  • [01:41:41] <zmatt> also, unless you copied the DDR3L layout verbatim (include trace widths/distances, distances from signal layer to ground place, etc etc) you should run the ddr3l leveling program
  • [01:42:09] <zmatt> which you upload via jtag
  • [01:42:20] <yates> huh?
  • [01:42:36] <yates> this is a program you run on the am335x?
  • [01:42:55] <zmatt> yes, it experimentally determines optimal leveling values
  • [01:43:01] <yates> we did not, btw, it's a new board, 8 layers i think
  • [01:43:04] <zmatt> since automatic hardware leveling support in the PHY is broken
  • [01:43:11] <zmatt> (the DDR3 PHY)
  • [01:43:28] <yates> what is levelling?
  • [01:43:33] <yates> leveling?
  • [01:44:04] <yates> i presume this is some software that "calibrates" ddr3 accesses somehow?
  • [01:44:22] <yates> never heard of such a thing.
  • [01:44:34] <zmatt> adjusting the timing of signals (in steps of 1/256 clock cycle)
  • [01:44:46] <zmatt> to account for pcb trace lengths and such
  • [01:45:10] <yates> do you have a link/reference for this?
  • [01:45:28] <zmatt> am335x is relatively simple since you usually only have one RAM chip, which greatly simplifies things
  • [01:46:18] <zmatt> two x8 RAM chips is already tricker, since then cmd/addr make a "fly-by" past the two RAM chips, so data signals for the second chip have to be slightly delayed compared to the first RAM chip (if pcb traces are equal)
  • [01:47:16] <zmatt> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AM335x_DDR_PHY_register_configuration_for_DDR3_using_Software_Leveling
  • [01:47:24] <yates> thanks again.
  • [01:47:31] <yates> i sure am tellign you thanks a lot!
  • [01:48:35] <yates> ok, let me try to cobble this into a response to my boss. i don't think they're going to be happy - it's already been routed and they wanted to send it out to fab Monday.
  • [01:48:38] <zmatt> note that with pcb layout this means that you only have to keep trace lengths equal per command/data "macro", since each macro has configurable timing to compensate for pcb trace length
  • [01:49:10] <zmatt> I hope they have experience with working with high-speed signals like DDR3
  • [01:49:32] <yates> i'm not sure. we have several guys on the team.
  • [01:50:08] <zmatt> the two data macros are simply the two byte lanes with associated dq/dqm
  • [01:50:33] <zmatt> the remaining signals are spread across three command macros in a bizarre way, see Control Module chapter of the AM335x TRM
  • [01:50:48] <zmatt> (there's probably some system in it, but I haven't discovered it yet)
  • [01:51:16] <yates> i'll hang out here but will be focusing on writing. thanks very much matt.
  • [01:53:23] <zmatt> one last time: since you probably have multiple voltage rails, pay really really close attention to power sequencing and the interaction between components in different power domains
  • [01:53:36] <zmatt> the BBB really screwed up some things there
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  • [01:54:25] <yates> doesn't the TPS65217 handle that automagically?
  • [01:54:25] <zmatt> we're patching our BBBs to remove the separate regulator of the 3V3B and directly tied 3V3B to 3V3A
  • [01:54:39] * dwery (~dwery@nslu2-linux/dwery) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  • [01:54:58] <zmatt> (this patch or something similar is required for battery-powered operation)
  • [01:55:31] <yates> what do you mean by "patching"? is this a hardware change or software?
  • [01:55:52] <yates> nm
  • [01:55:56] <yates> stupid question.
  • [01:56:05] <zmatt> I mean https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/7sxPePT7wkM/_oNSCta5WusJ
  • [01:57:33] <zmatt> the problem is that if two 3.3V domains have different sequencing, you get brief windows where one domain is powered up and the other is not
  • [01:57:57] <zmatt> those windows are excellent moments to violate absolute maximum ratings of components in the unpowered domain if you're not careful
  • [01:58:36] <yates> oh, so you're talking about the second 3V3B domain from the TL5209DR?
  • [01:58:50] <zmatt> the 3V3B regulator issue is discussed as length in this thread I linked to earlier: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/7sxPePT7wkM/3vFMPydR20IJ
  • [01:59:06] <zmatt> (pretty scope pics included)
  • [01:59:37] <yates> ok.
  • [01:59:54] <yates> btw, i've pretty much copied the last two hours of information into a file.
  • [02:00:00] <zmatt> wise
  • [02:00:05] <yates> 2.5
  • [02:00:56] <yates> did you see my pm question?
  • [02:01:07] <zmatt> also as I mentioned, for RTC-only mode you have to connect VDDS to LDO3 to LDO1 .. this was its original connect but TI issued an advisory to connect it to VDO1 instead... this has as side-effect it breaks rtc-only mode
  • [02:01:36] <zmatt> looking at the scope however I see significant leakage from VDDS to other rails during shutdown in this new configuration
  • [02:01:47] <zmatt> while no issues are visible if VDDS is connected to LDO3
  • [02:02:05] <zmatt> I've asked TI for clarification ( https://e2e.ti.com/support/arm/sitara_arm/f/791/t/421756 ) but did not get any useful answer
  • [02:03:55] <yates> ok, let me get this into my report as well.
  • [02:04:12] <yates> i've got a half a night of writing to do...
  • [02:04:18] <zmatt> a prime example of wrong use of two power domains is in the console buffer/isolator, discussed here (same thread as earlier, later post) https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/7sxPePT7wkM/V1Ft-xxh0agJ
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  • [02:05:02] <zmatt> that showed apparently 45 mA being pumped into an unpowered IO of the AM335x
  • [02:05:13] <zmatt> (until I very quickly cut the supply)
  • [02:06:04] <zmatt> I should note that I've already seen 3 reports of people whose UART0_RXD pin started to exhibit erratic behaviour or died entirely after some time
  • [02:06:27] <zmatt> I would guess due to this
  • [02:06:55] <yates> now that i look at the power circuit, why is this second domain a problem? shouldn't SYS_5V comes up first and the VDD_3V3A input to U20 be inactive until VDD_3V3A fires up?
  • [02:07:14] <zmatt> (powering the console buffer/isolator from the 3V3A instead of 3V3B would have solved the problem btw)
  • [02:07:58] <zmatt> apart from the fact that using a power supply signal (which ramps up) as a digital logic input is a bit questionable, this configuration indeed works correctly at power up
  • [02:08:10] <zmatt> not so at power down however
  • [02:08:18] <zmatt> details are in the posts I linked to
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  • [02:08:53] <zmatt> but short version: SYS_5V -> [regulator] -> 3v3b -> [leakage] -> 3v3a -> [enable input of regulator]
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  • [02:09:42] <yates> ok.
  • [02:10:08] <zmatt> so instead of shutting down *before* 3v3a as it should (or at the same time at the latest) it stays on for way too long, or indefinitely if on battery power
  • [02:11:11] <zmatt> SYS_5V is btw of course a misnomer if you're running on a 3.6V li-ion
  • [02:11:55] <zmatt> (which itself may cause problems with usb)
  • [02:13:07] * kaalia (~remote_us@45.55.206.107) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [02:14:11] <zmatt> alternative is some external battery solution that provides 5V instead of using the PMIC's integrated battery charger (which only supports charging standard 3.6V/3.7V li-ion batteries)
  • [02:15:51] * vagrantc (~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc) Quit (Quit: leaving)
  • [02:17:32] <zmatt> (benefit of having SYS_5V at lower voltage is reduced power consumption since all 1.8/3.3V supplies are made using regulators, downside is that you can only partially deplete the battery before voltage drops too low)
  • [02:18:06] * bahar (~bahar@unaffiliated/bahar) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  • [02:19:37] <zmatt> note that 1.8V is really the preferred I/O voltage of the am335x, 3.3V is a concession for backwards compat (note that those supplies are labeled "VDDHV" -- High Voltage)
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  • [02:20:00] <zmatt> beaglebone put everything on 3.3V for hobbyist convenience
  • [02:20:37] <zmatt> ok, enough rambling...
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  • [02:48:11] <zmatt> *and backwards compat with peripherals that require 3.3V of course
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  • [02:59:38] <Grom> Anyone recently try to flash eMMC to latest version? I started the process over 4 hours ago.... I am afraid to turn it off and risk causing serious problems but at this point I think it isnt working
  • [03:03:37] <zmatt> I think it takes only a few minutes
  • [03:03:46] <zmatt> definitely not 4 hours
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  • [03:05:01] <zmatt> what are the leds doing
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  • [03:08:53] <Grom> They are just flashing like crazy which makes me think it is still going but it is taking a REALLY long time
  • [03:10:04] <zmatt> if I understand correctly (I never used it) the flasher shows a simple sequential pattern of leds (knightrider-style)
  • [03:10:43] <zmatt> if led 1 is blinking a heartbeat pattern and the other leds are just doing "stuff" then you have a system running normally
  • [03:10:49] <zmatt> *led 0
  • [03:12:39] <Grom> Well I lost the ability to ssh into it. So I have no idea
  • [03:16:24] <zmatt> well that doesn't mean you can't look at the leds and describe what they're doing a bit more specific than "flashing like crazy"
  • [03:16:35] <zmatt> also, which download did you use exactly?
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  • [03:19:28] <Grom> The latest debian file. led 0 doing a double flash every second or so and led 2 is just rapidly flashing
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  • [03:21:28] <zmatt> "latest debian file" is not an answer "which download did you use exactly", and the led pattern matches a running system
  • [03:21:39] <zmatt> led 0: "heartbeat", led 2: cpu activity
  • [03:22:28] <Grom> http://beagleboard.org/latest-images first and only link under Recommended Debian Image
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  • [03:24:09] <zmatt> ok, bone-debian-7.8-lxde-4gb-armhf-2015-03-01-4gb
  • [03:24:12] <zmatt> that's not a flasher
  • [03:24:28] <zmatt> they actually say "For testing, flasher and other Debian images, see ..."
  • [03:25:45] <Grom> then what is that file and what is its purpose?
  • [03:26:08] <zmatt> it's a working system that boots directly from SD
  • [03:26:15] <zmatt> (no idea why you can't ssh to it)
  • [03:27:18] <zmatt> note btw that I'd personally recommend a testing image. debian 7.8 is pretty old
  • [03:29:08] <Grom> honestly I have no idea if I even need to do this. I was just trying to fix issues where apt-get update fails to retrieve package lists and issues where the adc and pwm cant be used together or the adc files lock. I was told to update the beaglebone
  • [03:29:49] <zmatt> there's one known issue where apt-get update gives a harmless warning, I don't know if that's the issue you're referring to
  • [03:30:09] <zmatt> in any case, development is still pretty fast so lots of stuff changes and gets fixed all the time
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  • [03:30:32] <zmatt> you can find the latest images here: https://rcn-ee.com/rootfs/bb.org/testing/
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  • [03:31:37] <Grom> no my issue is that apt-get update does nothing because it cant get any of the update packages.
  • [03:31:51] <Grom> but thanks for the link.
  • [03:32:17] <zmatt> it seems rcn-ee now also includes usb flashers, nice
  • [03:33:20] <zmatt> hum, maybe that means not quite what I think it means, not sure
  • [03:34:45] <zmatt> hmm, and rcn-ee seems to have switched to the -ti branch of kernels by default rather than the -bone kernels
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  • [04:39:01] <zleslie> Why is apache installed by default on the rnc-ee images? I'd really love an option for a completely minimal installation.
  • [04:39:37] <zmatt> then get a "console" image
  • [04:39:51] <zmatt> https://rcn-ee.com/rootfs/bb.org/testing/2015-09-06/console/
  • [04:40:06] <zleslie> Yep, thats the one I pulled down and it still had apache installed and running by default.
  • [04:40:18] <zleslie> It mentions it in the wiki as well, which I missed the first time.
  • [04:40:39] <zmatt> huh, I'm quite certain apache wasn't included last time I checked
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  • [04:41:15] <zleslie> I pulled the BBB-eMMC-flasher-debian-8.1-console-armhf-2015-08-17-2gb.img.xz image
  • [04:45:09] <zleslie> I'll pull a new image and load it. I'd just like not to have to remove apache
  • [04:45:41] <zmatt> I've so far only used the bone-debian-8.1-console images (flashed via USB)
  • [04:46:17] <zleslie> How would I flash via usb?
  • [04:46:36] <zleslie> Should I expect a device to show up in dmesg?
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  • [04:47:19] <zleslie> And the bone- images are base images?
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  • [04:48:16] <zmatt> bone-console is a minimal image for the BBB
  • [04:48:41] <zleslie> So I shoudl be able to dd the image directly to the beagle?
  • [04:49:04] <zleslie> Do I boot it first, hold the boot button, how?
  • [04:49:38] <zleslie> Also, why so many images?
  • [04:50:03] <zmatt> yes, though I'd recommend shrinking the ext4 partition to minimal size first, then after flashing recreate the partition (same offset, max size) and expand the image again
  • [04:50:56] <zmatt> for USB flashing I use BBBlfs... its scripts are broken, but the "usb_flasher" tool itself works and makes the BBB appear via USB as mass-storage device
  • [04:51:33] <zleslie> Why is that method preferable to the flasher?
  • [04:52:13] <zmatt> more direct, no need to prepare an sd card
  • [04:54:06] <zleslie> The results should be identical though, correct?
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  • [04:58:16] <zleslie> Also, is there a way to use the SD card as storage?
  • [04:59:30] <zmatt> (and shrinking the fs before flashing saves a lot of time: you only have to flash the space actually used)
  • [04:59:35] <zmatt> sure
  • [05:00:07] <zmatt> some people even run entirely from SD (using the eMMC interferes with some CAPEs)
  • [05:02:29] <zmatt> I just checked the latest console image -- no apache is isntalled
  • [05:02:47] <zleslie> Cool, I'll try out your method of install tomorrow
  • [05:03:06] <zleslie> Sounds somewhat complicated
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  • [05:16:49] <zmatt> I should probably just fix the BBBlfs scripts and send those as patch-request
  • [05:17:42] <zmatt> cool, using chroot and qemu-arm-static you can actually "enter" the image
  • [05:17:47] <zleslie> yes please :)
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  • [12:02:52] <nks> why does the beaglebone images not use upstream debian kernels?
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  • [12:30:50] <_av500_> patches needed I guess
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  • [12:50:36] <nks> it appears to be some ti-patchset. however arch/arm/boot/dts/am335x-boneblack.dts exists in upstream kernel. if it is just non essential stuff (like graphics) i'd rather use the upstream version
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  • [13:48:18] <j0rd_> @/b 2
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  • [14:54:14] <zmatt> nks: there are quite a bit more changes than that afaik
  • [14:54:38] <zmatt> but feel free to build your own kernel
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  • [15:02:25] <zmatt> nks: I think most of the changes do eventually land upstream, but for example 3.8.13-bone kernels have DT overlays, which didn't make it to mainstream until.. I think 4.1 ?
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  • [15:11:30] <zmatt> nks: https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/releases contains the linux trees for various releases, you can compare them to see what's different
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  • [15:17:04] <zmatt> for example, diff between 4.1.6 and 4.1.6-ti-r15
  • [15:17:05] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/compare/4ff62ca06c0c0b084f585f7a2cfcf832b21d94fc...d89bc272f41c6e0c335a68b2caa1d82fd8fc5ef5
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  • [15:17:43] <zmatt> clearly not all patches are beaglebone-related but also stuff for the beagleboard-x15 and such, which makes sense
  • [15:18:31] <zmatt> the -bone kernels are closer to mainline:
  • [15:18:35] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/compare/4ff62ca06c0c0b084f585f7a2cfcf832b21d94fc...c9aa25bc26d25afc8a211a9dcf13ed6e2ba2058e
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  • [15:25:54] <zmatt> and 4.2-bone5 is closer still to mainline 4.2
  • [15:25:57] <zmatt> https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/compare/v4.2...e285ab70171a1dca6f9fd7d319c9d275d76b7dbd
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  • [16:55:59] <Ashwin> Hello
  • [16:56:15] <Ashwin> I am trying to set up cross compile on my Beaglebone Black
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  • [16:56:33] <Guest2001> gcc-linaro-arm-linux-gnueabihf-4.8 on my Ubuntu machine
  • [16:56:44] <Guest2001> and gcc-linaro-arm-linux-gnueabihf-4.6 on my Beaglebone Running Debian
  • [16:56:46] <Guest2001> Is that okay?
  • [16:57:07] <Guest2001> I am not able to do with via eclipse.
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  • [19:55:51] <nks> zmatt: thanks
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  • [19:57:43] <zmatt> nks: it's worth mentioning that rcn seems to have switched from the -bone to the -ti kernel as default in recent images, so presumably they do have added value
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  • [20:04:48] * tbr prefers the vanilla kernels, run well on the BBB
  • [20:06:19] <veremit> I think RN's have a tendency to get 'bloaty' as he enables a lot of features by default
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  • [20:09:26] <zmatt> yeah, which makes sense to get stuff working "out of the box" for new users
  • [20:09:45] <zmatt> I personally do recompile with a more stripped-down config
  • [20:11:15] <zmatt> I suspect you'll definitely want a -ti kernel if power management is important
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