• [00:00:40] * ka6sox is certain he has no opinion.
  • [00:06:10] <mranostay> ok time to wander outside the coffee shop
  • [00:06:17] * guanucoluis1 (~luis@190.18.174.50) has joined #beagleboard
  • [00:06:44] <mranostay> koen: you still haven't given feedback on the nixie patchset :)
  • [00:09:59] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) has joined #beagle
  • [00:17:41] <_av500_> fun at FRA, coworker was already aboard the plane when they cancelled
  • [00:17:50] <_av500_> too much ice
  • [00:18:28] * guanucoluis1 (~luis@190.18.174.50) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [00:19:22] <_av500_> ha, 1977 Hobbit has trolls
  • [00:21:05] <mru> the book has trolls
  • [00:21:14] <_av500_> indeed
  • [00:21:24] <_av500_> i forgot
  • [00:21:52] <_av500_> and now they have a map with exact steps
  • [00:23:54] <_av500_> and now macroblock errors
  • [00:23:59] <_av500_> are these in the book too?
  • [00:24:07] <mru> they had a map in the book
  • [00:24:34] <mru> that was why they set out in the first place
  • [00:25:49] <_av500_> hm, popcorn hours has issue with that avi
  • [00:26:56] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  • [00:27:22] <mru> you know what I do with that machine
  • [00:27:35] <_av500_> this is the newer one
  • [00:27:37] <_av500_> the 300
  • [00:27:51] <_av500_> its xhit nevertheless
  • [00:27:53] <_av500_> shit*
  • [00:28:01] <mru> I'm sure it has equally solid engineering
  • [00:28:20] <_av500_> the 99$ WD thing is far better
  • [00:32:32] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) has joined #beagle
  • [00:32:44] <_av500_> anyway, time to sleep
  • [00:36:40] * snaakje (~Snaakje@89.205.224.54) Quit (Quit: snaakje)
  • [00:40:48] <crashovrd> you should get a raspberry PI
  • [00:40:55] <crashovrd> the videocore4 is impressive
  • [00:41:03] <crashovrd> ... can i say that in a TI room?
  • [00:41:05] <crashovrd> :P
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  • [00:57:46] <emeb_mac> of course you can say that. We reserve the right to mock you though.
  • [01:06:25] <thurbad> we reserve the right to mock everyone though
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  • [01:25:23] * CanyonMAD is now known as CanyonMan
  • [01:42:23] <mranostay> reserve? that assumes we hold back
  • [02:01:06] * DJW|Home (~djwillis@cpc1-bath5-2-0-cust122.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #beagle
  • [02:04:12] * DJWillis (~djwillis@cpc1-bath5-2-0-cust122.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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  • [02:30:03] <Hyon> Hi.
  • [02:35:15] <ka6sox> have we ever held back?
  • [02:44:38] * Hyon (932ef01a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.46.240.26) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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  • [03:00:45] <mranostay> ka6sox: probably why we are engineers and not in sales :)
  • [03:04:28] <ka6sox> mranostay, +1`
  • [03:04:35] * pfefferz (~pfefferz@ip-64-134-6-238.public.wayport.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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  • [03:31:11] * XorA|gone missed some mocking :-(
  • [03:31:16] * XorA|gone is now known as XorA
  • [03:34:31] <emeb_mac> a mocking! a mocking! and after that...
  • [03:39:31] <mranostay> heh can a lease even in CA say you can't own guns?
  • [03:40:15] <thurbad> a lease... maybe?
  • [03:40:37] <mranostay> hmm some states that isn't even enforcable.. not sure about CA :)
  • [03:40:38] <emeb_mac> can't say you can't own them - might try to keep them off the premises
  • [03:41:07] <thurbad> right, what emeb typed
  • [03:42:21] <mranostay> well common areas they can clearly restrict
  • [03:42:55] * djerome (~djerome@ip68-2-20-108.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [03:43:10] <thurbad> personal areas, they can say all sort of things too, that the government can't
  • [03:43:23] <emeb_mac> no smoking, no pets, etc
  • [03:44:00] <mranostay> varies by state but yes.
  • [03:44:06] <thurbad> they aren't a gov't entity, and don't have to rent to you
  • [03:45:00] <mranostay> of course honestly i wouldn't live in a place like that.. just wondering
  • [03:48:53] <mranostay> thurbad: my current one has a 'do not discharge a firearm in complex'.. if i need to do that.. getting evicted isn't on my mind at that moment :)
  • [03:49:11] <thurbad> heh
  • [03:50:28] <mranostay> ka6sox: so no go on ELC right?
  • [03:51:44] <ka6sox> mranostay, I'll probably go...
  • [03:52:08] <ka6sox> because I'd probably be unhappy if I didn't
  • [03:52:19] <mranostay> we bring joy to your life?
  • [03:52:26] <ka6sox> dunno how I'm going to get from SFO to LAX in time...
  • [03:52:38] <mranostay> geez :)
  • [03:52:51] <ka6sox> if I miss my kids paper my wife will disown me....
  • [03:53:29] <mranostay> disown? i beleive we call that divorce :)
  • [03:56:15] <ka6sox> this would be MUCH worse
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  • [04:38:44] <mrpackethead_> are guns allowed at ELC
  • [04:42:41] <prpplague> mrpackethead_: only if it is being held in texas
  • [04:42:53] <prpplague> mrpackethead_: sadly it is in california
  • [04:43:15] <mrpackethead_> so its safe to come
  • [04:43:17] <mrpackethead_> :-)
  • [04:47:31] <prpplague> mrpackethead_: always
  • [04:47:33] <mranostay> prpplague: i'm sure the guys outside on the streets of the tenderloin are totally unarmed :)
  • [04:47:49] <mranostay> there are no illegal guns in SF :)
  • [04:48:05] * mrpackethead_ (~mrpacketh@118-93-95-178.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [04:48:29] <mranostay> scared him off
  • [04:55:04] <mranostay> prpplague: trying to judge if 1.0 miles less drunken walking distance is worth $150 a month :)
  • [04:55:59] * cykon (~chatzilla@157-59-114-134.nat.resnet.nau.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [04:56:03] <cykon> Hmm
  • [04:56:30] <mranostay> don't hmm us
  • [04:56:44] <cykon> When I plug my xbox controller into my beagleboard, [ 220.337890] hub 1-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2 prints out into my shell
  • [04:56:57] <cykon> I wonder if its just that it tries to draw too much power?
  • [04:58:48] <mranostay> likely
  • [04:58:57] <mranostay> also musb sucks
  • [04:59:34] * cykon shrugs
  • [05:00:13] <cykon> I was hoping that one controller would run under the USB... but I've heard that mice and such wont even work without an external hub... at least on the classics
  • [05:00:56] <mranostay> have a hub?
  • [05:01:05] <cykon> Nah, which is why I haven't tried it yet xD
  • [05:01:11] <cykon> I'll probably go out to buy one tomorrow
  • [05:01:22] <cykon> I'm sure I can find one at a local store
  • [05:01:23] <mranostay> you powering the bone via usb or wall wart/
  • [05:01:25] <mranostay> ?
  • [05:01:26] <cykon> usb
  • [05:01:32] <mranostay> hehe
  • [05:01:36] <cykon> yeah :3
  • [05:01:40] <mranostay> yeah well that doesn't help :)
  • [05:01:46] <thurbad> powerin =powerout?
  • [05:01:48] <cykon> I know I know
  • [05:02:02] <mranostay> 500 ma - whatever the board is using = left for usb port
  • [05:02:17] <cykon> Yeah =/ I was just hoping that the controller wouldn't use that much
  • [05:02:20] <cykon> and thus would work
  • [05:02:34] <mranostay> we all have hopes and dreams
  • [05:02:41] <cykon> dead hopes and dreams
  • [05:02:55] <cykon> Hmm
  • [05:02:58] <cykon> Now that I think about it
  • [05:02:58] <thurbad> all I want is a pony :P
  • [05:03:24] <cykon> When I run my simple libusb code to print out all of my USB devices, one always appears... which makes sense since I'm powering it with usb
  • [05:03:40] <mranostay> all i want is date a supermodel and run around belize
  • [05:03:41] <cykon> now... say I want to also communicate along that usb port with whatever it's connected to
  • [05:03:50] <cykon> that should work... right? :3
  • [05:05:02] <toneeee> mranostay man you just revealed you are mcaffee lol
  • [05:05:14] <mranostay> i wish
  • [05:05:41] <cykon> lies! lets extort him!
  • [05:05:52] <toneeee> rock on!
  • [05:05:57] <mranostay> for what? he is back in the states
  • [05:06:29] <cykon> That's just what *you* want us to think
  • [05:07:02] <toneeee> heh
  • [05:11:08] * mrpackethead_ (~mrpacketh@118-93-95-178.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #beagle
  • [05:12:22] * mranostay wonders how much money he need to be crazy like that
  • [05:13:05] <cykon> Wasn't his story that he gave a bunch of infected laptops out in the country
  • [05:13:10] <cykon> and hired people to monitor them
  • [05:13:11] <cykon> lol
  • [05:14:24] <mranostay> beward of greek^H^H^H^Hgeeks baring gifts
  • [05:17:55] * toneeee is now known as toneeee|gone
  • [05:25:02] <emeb_mac> watch out who you bare your gifts to.
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  • [06:21:21] <mrpackethead_> gifts of bitcoin?
  • [06:23:17] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-188-109-033-173.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #beagle
  • [06:23:49] <mranostay> can i pay my rent in bitcoins?
  • [06:24:05] <mrpackethead_> of course.
  • [06:26:28] <mrpackethead_> if your landlord is in the mafia
  • [06:27:23] <mranostay> i don't live in chinatown
  • [06:37:24] * jvcleave (~jvcleave@WS1-DSL-208-102-254-80.fuse.net) has joined #beagle
  • [06:49:53] <mrpackethead_> midi cape
  • [06:49:54] <mrpackethead_> :-)
  • [06:50:01] <mrpackethead_> geppers these customers dont' give up
  • [06:50:07] <mrpackethead_> show them somethign
  • [06:50:14] <mrpackethead_> and they want a hudnred other thigns
  • [06:50:29] <mranostay> hmm there is a market for capes?
  • [06:50:47] <mrpackethead_> nope. capes by themselves are no use to anyone
  • [06:50:55] <mrpackethead_> "solutions" to problems are
  • [06:51:36] <mranostay> hmmm $1500 for a studio in Sunnyvale
  • [06:51:47] <mranostay> has to be a dump
  • [06:51:58] <mrpackethead_> i had to respin the electroplating controller cape
  • [06:52:03] <mrpackethead_> doh.. stupid me.
  • [06:52:16] <mrpackethead_> lucky it took me less than 80 minutes to ahve a new pcb
  • [06:53:27] <mrpackethead_> new favorite workshop chemical is citric acid.
  • [06:53:27] <mranostay> electroplating cape?
  • [06:53:45] <mrpackethead_> its *very* good at cleaning oxididation from Copper pcb
  • [06:54:08] <mrpackethead_> yes.. i am using a beagle to control the electroplatter i've build
  • [06:54:09] <mrpackethead_> built
  • [06:54:22] <mrpackethead_> four PWM outputs
  • [06:55:02] <mrpackethead_> problem is i keep thinkgin of ways to improve it!
  • [07:08:22] * tasslehoff (~tasslehof@147.84-49-231.nextgentel.com) has joined #beagle
  • [07:18:22] <_av500_> yawn
  • [07:18:29] <_av500_> I'm iced in
  • [07:19:56] * Cubi_ (~cubi@static-87-79-65-72.netcologne.de) has joined #beagle
  • [07:21:07] <dm8tbr> ice ice baby
  • [07:22:48] <_av500_> yeah
  • [07:22:53] <_av500_> tram is down
  • [07:22:56] * Guest70096 (~bleh1@87.254.84.104) has joined #beagle
  • [07:23:32] <mranostay> dm8tbr: ELC this year?
  • [07:23:44] <dm8tbr> mranostay: most likely, yes
  • [07:24:49] * mranostay polishs up his slides
  • [07:25:19] <dm8tbr> yes polish up for the Polish :)
  • [07:25:46] <mranostay> heh
  • [07:26:12] <mranostay> i'm using my PRUSS demo with my geiger cape.. i'll show them :P
  • [07:27:37] <dm8tbr> The Polish are not very fond of the PRUSSians...
  • [07:27:44] <mranostay> haha
  • [07:28:04] <dm8tbr> neither of the pRUSSians
  • [07:29:08] * hattwick (~hattwick@68-184-17-253.dhcp.unas.ma.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [07:29:19] <mranostay> how about the germans ? :)
  • [07:29:48] <dm8tbr> depends on the region and even then only one of both
  • [07:31:54] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-jripoagypeqmgbig) has joined #beagle
  • [07:35:22] * XorA is now known as XorA|gone
  • [07:47:02] <KotH> morning
  • [07:48:17] <mranostay> dammit!
  • [07:48:31] * mranostay hurls a chocolate brick at KotH
  • [07:48:38] * KotH ducks
  • [07:48:39] <KotH> hey!
  • [07:48:52] <KotH> dont throw your usian brown bricks at me!
  • [07:49:03] * KotH only eats high quality swiss chocolate
  • [07:49:48] <mranostay> how about American cheese?
  • [07:49:49] * mranostay ducks
  • [07:52:06] * Ceriand|desktop (~Ceriand@unaffiliated/ceriand) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [07:54:43] <_av500_> if is was cheese
  • [07:54:45] <_av500_> it*
  • [07:55:15] * vrb (~vrb@192.91.66.186) has joined #beagle
  • [07:55:44] <mranostay> well it isn't legally cheese
  • [07:55:54] <mranostay> the beer as well :P
  • [07:57:55] <KotH> "solid diary product"?
  • [07:58:04] <KotH> or is it non-diary?
  • [07:58:10] <mranostay> heh
  • [07:58:47] <KotH> http://attila.kinali.ch/SiO2marked.jpg
  • [07:59:01] <mranostay> swiss or provolone ftw
  • [07:59:16] <mranostay> glass?...
  • [08:00:03] <KotH> dude! silicon chips!
  • [08:00:13] <_av500_> makes it white I guess
  • [08:00:28] <_av500_> or non swtick
  • [08:00:31] <_av500_> stick
  • [08:00:37] <_av500_> teflon coated creamer
  • [08:00:44] <KotH> sounds like toothpaste
  • [08:00:51] <_av500_> yes
  • [08:01:03] <mrpackethead_> the gieger did'nt use the PRU though did it
  • [08:01:03] <_av500_> the gorvernment isputting toothpaste into coffee creamer
  • [08:01:04] <mrpackethead_> ?
  • [08:01:05] <mrpackethead_> mranostay:
  • [08:01:26] <mranostay> mrpackethead_: no
  • [08:01:38] <mrpackethead_> i'd love to come to ELC, and meet you guys
  • [08:01:40] <mranostay> no reason too
  • [08:01:59] <mrpackethead_> but i dont' think my schedule is going to allow it
  • [08:02:12] <KotH> mrpackethead_: elce is better anyways :)
  • [08:02:30] <mrpackethead_> but they speak funny in Europe
  • [08:03:25] <mrpackethead_> Wie sagst du Embedded-Linux in deutscher Sprache?
  • [08:03:59] <CareBear\> eingebautes linuxsystem
  • [08:04:25] <_av500_> lol
  • [08:06:24] <mranostay> mrpackethead_: you can watch some of us uncomformably speaking over the live stream :)
  • [08:07:07] * kripton is now known as Kripton
  • [08:08:38] <KotH> mrpackethead_: ganz guet... und so komisch redemer g?r n?d
  • [08:08:57] <mranostay> we speak american here thanks :)
  • [08:09:10] <ka6sox> where is my Universal Translator when I need it
  • [08:09:31] <KotH> ka6sox: there *points at av500*
  • [08:09:47] <mranostay> index finger i hope
  • [08:10:21] <KotH> no, with a pointing device
  • [08:11:48] <ka6sox> I always knew av500 was an intelligent Bot
  • [08:11:48] <mranostay> ka6sox: i understood one word of that
  • [08:12:02] <mranostay> und :)
  • [08:12:15] * Guest70096 (~bleh1@87.254.84.104) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [08:14:04] <KotH> mranostay: you're good! :-)
  • [08:14:13] <ka6sox> do embedded systems speak german?
  • [08:14:33] * KotH has worked with system that spoke french
  • [08:14:42] <KotH> so there must be german systems too!
  • [08:14:59] <_av500_> yes, the germans have a system
  • [08:15:06] * KotH is hungry
  • [08:15:08] <_av500_> been fighting it all my life
  • [08:15:36] * stahl (~stahl@77-57-188-4.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #beagle
  • [08:17:04] <CareBear\> germans may have nothing *but* systems
  • [08:17:17] <CareBear\> except for the exceptions
  • [08:18:12] <mranostay> heh
  • [08:18:23] <mrpackethead_> germans are a system
  • [08:18:52] <mrpackethead_> are their bitmarks?
  • [08:18:54] <mranostay> i'm part german but i think i lost that part :P
  • [08:19:13] <mrpackethead_> Ok, so heres a new one
  • [08:19:39] <mrpackethead_> customer says " we have to asses the SAR for a receiver
  • [08:21:25] <KotH> o_0
  • [08:21:30] <KotH> 1) why a SAR
  • [08:21:40] <mrpackethead_> i have no idea
  • [08:21:43] <KotH> 2) why does the customer meddle with ADCs?
  • [08:21:55] <KotH> 3) does he even know what he is talking about?
  • [08:21:58] <mrpackethead_> SAR = Specific Absorbtion Rate
  • [08:22:03] <KotH> ah..
  • [08:22:21] * KotH thought about succesive approximation
  • [08:22:21] <mrpackethead_> but it seems nonsence if its only a RX
  • [08:22:39] <Russ> SAR, CM EDBD FEET?
  • [08:24:58] * mthalmei_away is now known as mthalmei
  • [08:25:56] <KotH> mrpackethead_: well.. you know.. even a RX can emit
  • [08:26:33] <_av500_> badly shielded LO
  • [08:26:51] <KotH> mrpackethead_: i've heard reports of active TV antennas mounted on boats that emited enough to kill the reception of all GPS receivers in a 2km radius
  • [08:27:11] <ka6sox> re-radiation of the LO is a serious problem
  • [08:27:26] <mranostay> wmat: http://i.imgur.com/Gyno9ue.gif <-- how often does this happen? :)
  • [08:27:33] <KotH> in one case, it wasnt the LO... it was the amplifier oscillating ^^'
  • [08:27:42] <ka6sox> KotH, yuck
  • [08:27:49] <ka6sox> not very stable...
  • [08:27:58] <_av500_> mranostay: happen to the elk?
  • [08:28:05] <KotH> ka6sox: cheap chinese shit
  • [08:28:39] <_av500_> fun trivia, cheap 433mhz remote stuff has to work soon be EU regulation
  • [08:28:41] <ka6sox> KotH, I'm running around San Jose chasing a ghost too...
  • [08:28:46] <KotH> mranostay: someone is trying to apply for the darwin award
  • [08:28:47] <mranostay> _av500_: they are moose here
  • [08:28:57] <_av500_> or that
  • [08:29:00] <ka6sox> mranostay, I've sen elk
  • [08:29:08] <ka6sox> +e
  • [08:29:19] <_av500_> bring and elk to elc
  • [08:29:23] <_av500_> -d
  • [08:29:35] <ka6sox> av500, not my idea of an Ideal Date
  • [08:30:03] * shoragan (~jlu@2001:6f8:1178:2:219:99ff:fe56:8d7) has joined #beagle
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  • [08:31:49] * mthalmei is now known as mthalmei_away
  • [08:35:57] * stahl (~stahl@77-57-188-4.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  • [08:39:40] <KotH> _av500_: what eu regulation?
  • [08:40:10] * ncbas (~ncbas@63-11.bbned.dsl.internl.net) has joined #beagle
  • [08:40:16] * ncbas is now known as modmaker
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  • [08:43:37] <KotH> _av500_: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4521
  • [08:43:39] <mrpackethead_> it guess an RX coudl emit.
  • [08:43:45] <KotH> _av500_: you'll like that comic :)
  • [08:43:57] <mrpackethead_> but Pout must be less tan Pin.
  • [08:45:52] * Cykon (~chatzilla@157-59-114-134.nat.resnet.nau.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [08:46:15] <Cykon> Say I code a usb gadget driver to run on my beagleboard
  • [08:46:24] <Cykon> is it also possible to keep the host functionality?
  • [08:46:34] <KotH> google for OTG
  • [08:46:46] <Cykon> thanks
  • [08:47:15] <mrpackethead_> i'd never seen USB gagdet untill i'd seen a beagle..
  • [08:47:19] <mrpackethead_> are they widespread?
  • [08:47:51] <Cykon> Well, I've just started researching since I want my beagleboard to act as both a client and a host
  • [08:48:03] <Cykon> and as far as i've heard, it's "usb gadget"
  • [08:48:10] <Cykon> idk =/
  • [08:48:46] <mrpackethead_> same port?
  • [08:48:53] <mrpackethead_> or one of each?
  • [08:48:53] <dm8tbr> OTG with musb used to be a serious pain. does that even work nowadays?
  • [08:49:04] <Cykon> I hope so <.< >.>
  • [08:49:15] <Cykon> I really hope so
  • [08:52:50] * jpirko (~jirka@ip-94-112-98-141.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #beagle
  • [09:00:16] <_av500_> host and device at the same time, no
  • [09:00:50] <_av500_> mranostay: every mobile phone with usb is a "gadget"
  • [09:01:01] <_av500_> when connecting to the PC
  • [09:01:12] <_av500_> the ones that run linux run "usb gadget"
  • [09:02:06] * Russ notes panto and koen harshing on python
  • [09:02:30] <Cykon> Well I don't mean at the same time on a single usb port
  • [09:02:47] <Cykon> What I mean is, on the beagleboard, could I use one port as a gadget, while keeping the functionality of the other ports as hosts
  • [09:02:57] * Cykon goes back to reading about OTG
  • [09:03:57] <dm8tbr> duuuuh
  • [09:04:19] <dm8tbr> that's the default behaviour of the image that ships with it?
  • [09:04:36] <Cykon> Well I don't know y.y I'm a noob
  • [09:06:40] <_av500_> Cykon: yes
  • [09:07:31] <Cykon> Kk sweet
  • [09:09:00] * ka6sox is now known as ka6sox-away
  • [09:10:39] <ka6sox-away> reading thru DT files makes my head hurt....that is all...nite!
  • [09:12:19] <Cykon> Wait -- is the micro port of the beagleboard by default an OTG port?
  • [09:13:29] <Cykon> yes, yes it is
  • [09:13:37] <ka6sox-away> its Grey?
  • [09:17:11] <mrpackethead_> it is grey
  • [09:17:22] <mrpackethead_> does colour define something?
  • [09:17:47] <mrpackethead_> the things you learn at #beagle
  • [09:18:59] <_av500_> gray?
  • [09:19:59] <mrpackethead_> gray? or grey?
  • [09:21:12] <_av500_> grau
  • [09:21:16] <_av500_> gris
  • [09:21:22] <_av500_> sivo
  • [09:21:56] <ka6sox-away> gris
  • [09:22:37] <ka6sox-away> mrpackethead_, according to the USB spec the connector *should* be gray/grey/gris for a OTG connector
  • [09:23:43] <mrpackethead_> i've learned something new
  • [09:23:44] <mrpackethead_> :-)
  • [09:23:48] <ka6sox-away> white for master and black for slave (iirc)
  • [09:24:16] <ka6sox-away> and Blue for USB3
  • [09:24:19] <Cykon> wait now I'm confused
  • [09:24:22] <mrpackethead_> the ports in my Macbook are grey
  • [09:24:34] <Cykon> Are we talking about the plug that the USB goes into?
  • [09:24:47] <Cykon> if so, yes the micro port on my beagle is grey
  • [09:25:02] <Cykon> and the manual says it's OTG, so I can only assume that's what you're talking about
  • [09:25:08] <ka6sox-away> then that should be an OTG connector
  • [09:25:32] <ka6sox-away> so ground the right pin and Viola! instant master
  • [09:25:37] <mrpackethead_> the port on teh mac mini are black
  • [09:25:45] <Cykon> Awesome!
  • [09:25:50] <Cykon> I actually only need that one to be a slave
  • [09:25:56] <mrpackethead_> the ports on thte TV decoder, are white
  • [09:26:01] <Cykon> I just wanted my other USB port to stay as a master
  • [09:26:05] <_av500_> Cykon: that is default
  • [09:26:11] <_av500_> Cykon: it will
  • [09:26:12] <Cykon> mhm^
  • [09:26:20] <_av500_> its a totally different usb controller
  • [09:26:22] <Cykon> Now I just need to figure out how to write a slave driver, since I can't use libusb or anything like that
  • [09:26:24] <_av500_> read the SRM
  • [09:26:34] <_av500_> Cykon: use gadget_fs
  • [09:26:37] <mrpackethead_> mmm, tis got both
  • [09:26:47] <_av500_> that a gadget driver you can open/read/write
  • [09:26:55] <_av500_> for a simple protocoll that should be enough
  • [09:27:05] <_av500_> -l
  • [09:27:13] <Cykon> ooo? I'll take a look at it for sure! Thanks a bunch!
  • [09:27:23] <mrpackethead_> i much perfer plugging thigs togehte rwith ethernet
  • [09:27:28] <_av500_> we used that to implement MTP device
  • [09:27:31] <ka6sox-away> gogo USB Gadget
  • [09:28:04] <mrpackethead_> i like the any to any connectivity of ethernet
  • [09:28:30] <Cykon> Yeah it's nice, but i'm trying to spoof a computer (xbox) into thinking my beagleboard is a keyboard (xbox controller)
  • [09:28:39] <Cykon> so I need the USB :)
  • [09:28:54] <mrpackethead_> ahh
  • [09:29:15] <mrpackethead_> Ckykon, that a cool idea
  • [09:29:18] <mrpackethead_> :-)
  • [09:29:26] <Cykon> yeah I know! I've had it in the back of my head for quite some time
  • [09:29:36] <Cykon> So I figure on the other usb port i'll stick a mouse / keyboard
  • [09:29:43] <Cykon> and then just try to do some conversions
  • [09:29:52] <Cykon> boom, keyboard / mouse on an xbox
  • [09:30:02] <Cykon> will it work smoothly? Who knows... it sounds like a fun project though
  • [09:32:18] <_av500_> Cykon: sounds doable
  • [09:32:25] <_av500_> go for it
  • [09:32:30] <Cykon> Mhm! I am
  • [09:35:01] <mrpackethead_> http://hackaday.com/2012/06/29/turning-an-arduino-into-a-usb-keyboard/ similar
  • [09:36:10] <_av500_> yes
  • [09:36:31] * _av500_ has a usb device PCI card in his PC
  • [09:36:37] <Cykon> Oooh, I'll take a look at that
  • [09:37:05] <mrpackethead_> im quie interested in this
  • [09:37:13] <Cykon> As am I! :D
  • [09:37:21] <mrpackethead_> this woudl be interesting for something i have thought about.
  • [09:37:24] <KotH> av500: mini-pci-e in a riser card? :)
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  • [09:39:13] <_av500_> KotH: no, PIC
  • [09:39:15] <_av500_> PCI
  • [09:39:17] <_av500_> sec
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  • [09:40:31] <_av500_> Net2280 PCI card
  • [09:40:35] <_av500_> might be gone by now
  • [09:40:54] <_av500_> http://www.plxtech.com/products/usbcontrollers/legacy
  • [09:41:31] <mrpackethead_> arduion-cape?
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  • [09:47:03] <_av500_> Cykon: btw: http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/
  • [09:47:22] <Cykon> Yeah I was actually just reading through that page, thanks though
  • [09:47:57] <Cykon> Where it talks about GadgetFS, I guess the code they supplied is an example driver... so i'll probably read through that to see how it really works code wise
  • [09:48:11] <_av500_> yes
  • [09:48:14] <_av500_> start from there
  • [09:48:32] <Cykon> Sweet, will do
  • [09:49:40] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [09:54:23] <mrpackethead_> man if i could hire some of you guys
  • [09:54:31] <mrpackethead_> i'd not have to do any work
  • [09:54:40] <Cykon> but doing the work is the whole fun part!
  • [09:55:12] <mrpackethead_> this is something i'd like to mess with http://beagleboard.org/project/miniECG/
  • [09:55:21] <Cykon> And plus, chances are -- i'll never learn any of this in any of my remaining uni classes... so its all for the better I suppose
  • [09:56:27] <mrpackethead_> yup
  • [09:56:40] <mrpackethead_> what are you study Cykon
  • [09:56:51] <Cykon> I'm a computer science major
  • [09:57:03] <mrpackethead_> i'm just in the process of hiring a soon to be grad
  • [09:57:13] <mrpackethead_> had him work on a project for me
  • [09:57:20] <Cykon> Oh nice!
  • [09:58:02] <mrpackethead_> what do you when a new grad can turn out 3x the work of a 20 year + EE
  • [09:58:34] <mrpackethead_> it brings some challenges to how we manage and reward people.
  • [09:58:49] <Cykon> Yeah definitely
  • [09:59:29] <mrpackethead_> well worth reading the beagle project list
  • [09:59:53] <Cykon> Yeah? I'm sure it's probably a really good way to get ideas for future projects
  • [10:00:05] <mrpackethead_> yeah, i'm just having a look
  • [10:00:13] <mrpackethead_> often it just gives ideas for other proejcts
  • [10:00:58] <Cykon> Oh for sure!
  • [10:01:26] <Cykon> I'm torn between some home automation stuff and a self balancing quad copter after this one
  • [10:01:35] <Cykon> home automation seems like it would be pretty easy though
  • [10:01:40] <Cykon> I'd just use some X10 stuff
  • [10:01:45] <mrpackethead_> compared to the quad copter
  • [10:01:47] <mrpackethead_> X10 sucks
  • [10:01:55] <Cykon> yeah that too :)
  • [10:01:59] <mrpackethead_> its a peie of *crapy* tech
  • [10:02:04] <Cykon> yeah?
  • [10:02:05] <mrpackethead_> run some ethernet aroudn your house
  • [10:02:10] <mrpackethead_> its slow
  • [10:02:13] <mrpackethead_> unrelaible
  • [10:02:32] <_av500_> zigbee :)
  • [10:02:32] <Cykon> Actually, before I had x10 suggested to me, I was thinking about just doing it all through a network
  • [10:03:12] <Cykon> I figured it'd be pretty easy to just interface with wired/wireless
  • [10:03:36] <Cykon> Though the quadcopter is going to be pretty hard, it'll give me a chance to buff up some of my math for sure
  • [10:04:07] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) has joined #beagle
  • [10:04:20] <Cykon> Though... I have to finish this usb project first!
  • [10:04:34] <mrpackethead_> make sure you let us know how you get on with it
  • [10:04:49] <Cykon> Most certainly
  • [10:06:27] * calculu5 (~calculus@gentoo/user/calculus) has joined #beagle
  • [10:07:35] <KotH> mrpackethead_: actually, you can hire me :-)
  • [10:07:53] <mrpackethead_> KotH, your not sutibly qualified.
  • [10:07:58] <KotH> lol
  • [10:08:13] <KotH> mrpackethead_: what qual would i need? :)
  • [10:09:20] <mrpackethead_> i dont' know
  • [10:09:43] <mrpackethead_> i get to change the rules
  • [10:09:48] <mrpackethead_> dependig on the day
  • [10:10:05] * calculus (~calculus@gentoo/user/calculus) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  • [10:10:15] <KotH> hehe
  • [10:11:12] <mrpackethead_> our projects are beneath yours.
  • [10:11:21] <KotH> whut?
  • [10:11:33] <mrpackethead_> yes, ours are very much stuck on teh ground
  • [10:11:37] <mrpackethead_> yours are mile higher
  • [10:11:39] <KotH> not all of our projects are space ^^'
  • [10:11:41] <mrpackethead_> miles(s)
  • [10:12:02] * KotH is currently doing a MVC -> Qt porting
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  • [10:12:14] * Cykon scratches his head
  • [10:12:43] * _av500_ relaxes on the couch
  • [10:13:03] <KotH> _av500_: starting your weekend routine already?
  • [10:14:47] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [10:16:11] <Cykon> I know I am
  • [10:16:14] <Cykon> y.y
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  • [10:33:42] <panto> gm
  • [10:34:57] * RushPL_ is now known as RushPL
  • [10:35:03] <Russ> morning panto
  • [10:35:19] <panto> hi Russ
  • [10:36:04] <_av500_> KotH: no tram service
  • [10:36:08] <_av500_> no car avaialble
  • [10:36:13] <_av500_> dont want to walk
  • [10:36:19] <_av500_> not crazy enough to bike
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  • [10:40:22] <KotH> _av500_: ah...that's why german public stops frequently during winter: you want to have an excuse to have an day off!
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  • [11:17:40] <Cykon> time to sleep about USB protocol
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  • [12:27:37] <aholler> frozen
  • [12:28:38] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  • [12:31:19] <aholler> yesterday I've visited my parents by motorbike. When I left, everything was frozen, including the starter and blinker buttons and mirrors. ;)
  • [12:32:33] * kiilo (~kiilo@46-126-77-178.dynamic.hispeed.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [12:33:04] <_av500_> as long as the steering was frozen "straight ahead" that should be fine
  • [12:33:15] <_av500_> you can steer by body wight and power sliding
  • [12:33:26] <aholler> brute force helped ;)
  • [12:35:57] <aholler> maybe pilots now do such. I heared airport FRA is closed.
  • [12:36:25] <_av500_> not closed
  • [12:36:29] <_av500_> but very delayed
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  • [12:38:35] * Kripton is now known as kripton
  • [12:39:32] <aholler> freezing rain is astonishing
  • [12:39:43] <aholler> astonishing
  • [12:39:46] <aholler> uups
  • [12:40:41] * keesj (~keesj@dellpc132.few.vu.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [12:45:02] <aholler> the whole handlebar was coated with about 5mm ice in around 2h
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  • [12:46:41] <KotH> now the question is, why did you take the motorcycle in such weather conditions?
  • [12:48:21] <aholler> Because I can. And I've developed an aversion against driving by car.
  • [12:48:44] <KotH> there is still something called public transport
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  • [12:49:37] <aholler> if you have the time and patience.
  • [12:49:56] * daemoneye (~daemoneye@unaffiliated/daemoneye) has joined #beagle
  • [12:50:37] <KotH> well.. riding a motorcylce under such conditions is close to suicide ^^'
  • [12:51:02] <aholler> so you won't have to kill me
  • [12:51:36] * KotH doesnt kill people
  • [12:51:40] * KotH only kills infidels
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  • [12:52:51] <aholler> don't discuss with fools, they will pull you down to their level and beat you with experience
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  • [12:55:06] <KotH> being a fool is cool!
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  • [13:00:19] <aholler> +then
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  • [13:52:53] <wmat> mranostay: that happens a lot. That bow hunter is crazy!
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  • [14:01:00] <mdp> we had a good rain wash the salt of the roads...so I saw a few of the local 25K+ USD bikes on the road last week
  • [14:01:17] <mdp> a rare winter sight
  • [14:02:21] <mdp> _av500_: you are old...I also have a net2280 card ;)
  • [14:04:03] * GPSFan (~kenm@64.92.145.112) has joined #beagle
  • [14:04:16] <_av500_> :)
  • [14:04:37] <_av500_> mdp: yep, we are
  • [14:05:04] <mdp> ouch
  • [14:05:32] <_av500_> that card was a godsend
  • [14:07:41] <mdp> yeah, I recall we got it to work on some no-longer-existing-smartphone-company project in parallel with the board bringup
  • [14:08:16] <mdp> back when composite cdc ether / serial / foo in linux was tough
  • [14:08:38] <mdp> it's sits in my box of cards here now
  • [14:08:44] <mdp> *it
  • [14:09:14] <mdp> this may have led to my intense hatred of USB
  • [14:09:52] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [14:10:42] <dm8tbr> that's why it's called the useless serial bus
  • [14:11:02] <mru> and it's not even a bus
  • [14:11:37] <dm8tbr> yeah. it's a point-to-point connect and lots of brainfuck
  • [14:11:48] <mru> half duplex yuck
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  • [14:14:43] <Em`Zee> Good morning, I'm looking for which narcissus platform to use for a BeagleBone A6
  • [14:15:12] <koen> Em`Zee: same as every Beaglebone: 'beaglebone'
  • [14:15:25] <Em`Zee> There is no "beaglebone", just a "beagleboard"
  • [14:16:00] <Em`Zee> Since they're entirely different specs between the two to my eye (looking at the spec sheet), I had my doubts on that arch
  • [14:16:01] <koen> Em`Zee: have you read the news items on the angstrom website?
  • [14:16:14] <Em`Zee> Apparently not :P
  • [14:16:35] <Em`Zee> Ahhhh
  • [14:18:42] * emeb_mac (~ericb@ip72-201-78-226.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #beagle
  • [14:18:45] <Em`Zee> I'm surprised you guys don't have a package for IceWM or somesuch
  • [14:18:58] <Em`Zee> xfce looks like the lightest weight environment available on Narcissus
  • [14:22:12] * Phasip (82e5b2c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.229.178.201) has joined #beagleboard
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  • [14:23:39] <Em`Zee> koen; Just as an FYI, I got two red "X"s while doing the build
  • [14:23:48] <Em`Zee> next to "task-proper-tools" and "ntpclient"
  • [14:36:29] <Em`Zee> task-xfce46-base and task-xfce46-extras also get Xs
  • [14:36:32] <Em`Zee> :(
  • [14:36:33] <Em`Zee> Sad.
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  • [14:59:50] <mdp> NishanthMenon: RMK maintains the OMAP DMA stuff, should bring it to his attention
  • [15:00:01] <NishanthMenon> mdp, sure
  • [15:00:15] <NishanthMenon> mdp, i think it is a dts info missing
  • [15:00:33] <mdp> hrm
  • [15:00:46] <NishanthMenon> have'nt dug at which entry etc..
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  • [15:01:49] <mdp> it wouldn't surprise me..there's a lot of corner cases to deal with that can be triggered by the fact that we still have dma resources populated from hwmod, both the omap-dma and edma private apis get instantiated via in driver platform device creation for legacy reasons...etc.
  • [15:02:04] <mdp> then there's both the !DT and DT cases that have to be handled for omap-dma
  • [15:02:19] <mdp> ugh, thankless meeting time
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  • [15:13:33] <_av500_> rpibone killer: http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/a10s-olinuxino-micro-first-prototypes-work-fine/
  • [15:14:54] <Donny3000> Hello All. I'm developing with the beaglebone and would like to make use of the ePWM channels in the PWMSS peripherals. I've been reading the TI Reference Manual (SPRUH73G) getting familiar with the PWMSS. Reading section 15.2.2.2 - Proper Interrupt Initialization Procedure for the ePWM module and it mentioned "Disable global interrupts (CPU INTM)" and "Disable ePWM Interrupts". What register contains the global interrupt flag?
  • [15:15:53] <Donny3000> I've looked through the manual trying to find it, but I can't find the section documenting the global interrupt enable flag
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  • [15:20:40] <dm8tbr> _av500_: now the most important question is...
  • [15:20:55] <dm8tbr> do they have an irc channel we can invade and troll?
  • [15:21:52] <dm8tbr> "Freenode IRC channel #olimex was created few months ago"
  • [15:24:26] <crashovrd> tbh, it all comes down to support.
  • [15:24:49] <crashovrd> raspberry pi has sdcard images on the main site that you can grab and it 'just works'
  • [15:25:17] <crashovrd> yeah, i *can* compile my own kernel
  • [15:25:24] <crashovrd> and pull in patches from all over the internet
  • [15:25:39] <crashovrd> was dissapointed beagleboard never got that
  • [15:25:50] <crashovrd> the 'official' sd card image
  • [15:25:56] <crashovrd> it had the latter
  • [15:26:59] <dm8tbr> there are official validation images...
  • [15:27:28] <crashovrd> is there one with working sgx and dsp?
  • [15:27:30] <crashovrd> link me to it
  • [15:27:37] <crashovrd> i was asking for that
  • [15:27:55] <crashovrd> beagleboard C3
  • [15:28:15] <crashovrd> i tried all the angstrom ones
  • [15:28:23] * smplman (~speery@74-134-50-76.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #beagle
  • [15:28:27] <crashovrd> i tried the ubuntu one
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  • [15:29:22] <crashovrd> dont need or care about x11
  • [15:29:35] <jackmitchell> _av500_: even better is that Pengutronix (IIRC) is doing the mainline A1x support at the moment
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  • [15:31:35] <jackmitchell> does anyone have any companies to recommend for low cost arm modules for production use
  • [15:32:00] <jonand> arm modules is a pretty big scope...
  • [15:32:14] <jonand> ... and so is low cost
  • [15:32:17] <jackmitchell> run Linux, prefs mainline
  • [15:32:26] <jackmitchell> < ??30
  • [15:32:36] <jackmitchell> 100 unit batches
  • [15:33:09] <jackmitchell> I'm looking at multime AM335x modules at the moment but they seems to be hovering around ~??50 mark per module
  • [15:33:31] <jonand> have you asked variscite?
  • [15:33:35] * smplman (~speery@74-134-50-76.dhcp.insightbb.com) Quit (Quit: smplman)
  • [15:33:39] <jackmitchell> there are some cheaper i.MX28 modules but they're few and far between and I also worry about longevity
  • [15:33:48] <jackmitchell> I have spoken to Varscite
  • [15:34:00] <jackmitchell> they're on my list, have you had a good experience with them?
  • [15:34:19] <jackmitchell> one of my issues is that they mandate that you buy a Dev board from them, complete with touch screen for $900
  • [15:34:21] <jonand> jorjin showed a cheap omap5 module at electronica this year
  • [15:34:34] <jonand> don't know if they have anything on am335x though
  • [15:34:47] <agmlego> jackmitchell: How do you mean longevity? Freescale guarantees their chips to be in supply for years.
  • [15:35:34] <jonand> I don't think actual chip supply is a problem for neither TI nor Freescale. That said, large companies might sometimes get rid of entire business units
  • [15:35:42] <jonand> so support is nil
  • [15:36:03] <jonand> but if your product is done and you don't need any more support you will most likely be fine anyway
  • [15:36:03] <jackmitchell> well the mx28 is an older chip and some module manufacturors I have spoken to suggest that I may have problems in 5-10 years with the modules still being in production
  • [15:36:39] <crashovrd> isnt the lifespace of an arm device measured in months these days?
  • [15:36:58] <jackmitchell> as you mention, the chip isn't the problem per se, but longevity of the module I suppose is what I meant
  • [15:37:03] <jackmitchell> crashovrd: indeed :(
  • [15:37:07] <emeb_mac> measured in days this month
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  • [15:38:28] <jackmitchell> another issue is that a lot of the arm modules seem to be focused on graphic displays and such, where as our application is more of headless controller
  • [15:38:37] <Em`Zee> Man, I just can't seem to get Narcissus to work on this =/
  • [15:39:43] <jackmitchell> so a non-gpu, small memorym Linux based and low cost module is tough to find
  • [15:40:25] <jackmitchell> am335x is complete overkill, but it seems to be very readily available on still on the cheaper side of the market
  • [15:40:42] <crashovrd> i thought i saw some Atmel ARM designs that fit that category
  • [15:41:03] <crashovrd> i need the pretty graphics
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  • [15:41:27] <crashovrd> so i dont venture much into that 'other world'
  • [15:41:50] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Are you sure you want an A-series ARM then? If you want no GPU, small memory, that sounds like an M-series, like the Stellaris line from TI.
  • [15:42:05] <crashovrd> its a bit ironic that strip down arm modules i have seen are costing more that full blown gpu enabled ones
  • [15:44:10] * calculu5 is now known as calculus
  • [15:44:20] <jackmitchell> agmlego: possibly, I'll investigate - to be honest I haven't been searching for any specific series, just low-cost readily available modules
  • [15:45:04] <jackmitchell> crashovrd: yes, it seesm to be the case that the do everything for everybody off the shelf modules are the cheapest even though they're the most fully featured
  • [15:45:04] <agmlego> jackmitchell: If I may ask, what are you wanting to do with these?
  • [15:45:35] <jackmitchell> agmlego: its a control system which manages multiple FPGA's and runs a websocket enabled webserver for GUI interaction
  • [15:45:52] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Do you *need* it to run Linux?
  • [15:46:07] <agmlego> Because this is sounding increasingly like a job for an M-series.
  • [15:46:09] <jackmitchell> agmlego: the application is already 70% done
  • [15:46:32] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Before you got a processor chosen? Bad form.
  • [15:46:47] <jackmitchell> agmlego: it's been done completely by myself in a very short time period due to the advantages of Linux and readily available libraries
  • [15:47:04] <jackmitchell> agmlego: we knew we were going to use Linux for portability and extendability
  • [15:47:15] <agmlego> Still...what are you programming for if you do not even have a processor?
  • [15:47:29] <jackmitchell> to get the prototype and development done
  • [15:47:42] <agmlego> Or did you just write a skeleton to talk with all the hardware?
  • [15:47:54] <jackmitchell> yes, there is no ties to the current processor or system
  • [15:48:05] <agmlego> (in which case, you are likely far less than 70% done... ;-P)
  • [15:48:05] <jackmitchell> apart from it needs to run Linux
  • [15:48:30] * edahling (~edahling@wbc.res.wpi.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [15:49:00] <jackmitchell> there were a lot of software architecture problems that needed to be tried and tested in order to help build the fpga design
  • [15:49:37] <jackmitchell> but yes, I would _like_ to think I'm 70% done :P
  • [15:49:45] <jackmitchell> in reality...
  • [15:50:42] * edahling (~edahling@wbc.res.wpi.net) has joined #beagle
  • [15:50:58] <agmlego> Well...if you *really* want Linux, the Cortex-M3 has several ports, and there is always uclinux.
  • [15:51:13] <agmlego> Remember, all you said was you wanted Linux. ;-P
  • [15:51:22] * mru would not recommend that
  • [15:51:56] <jackmitchell> agmlego: haha, yes I did
  • [15:52:31] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Now, if you wanted to clarify your actual requirements, we might be able to be more useful.
  • [15:52:46] <jackmitchell> ok, let me try
  • [15:52:51] <agmlego> But with the information given, I recommend running uclinux on an M.,
  • [15:53:11] <mru> I wouldn't recommend uclinux, ever
  • [15:53:15] * thurbad (~natesewel@cpe-70-113-204-247.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: thurbad)
  • [15:53:19] <mdp> +1
  • [15:54:06] <Em`Zee> Every time I read "uclinux" I think "University of California, Linux"
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  • [15:54:20] <jackmitchell> essentially I want to be able take the work I have done in development on the BeagleBone and transfer it to a production module that can be integrated into our custom baseboards
  • [15:55:20] * flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [15:55:37] <jackmitchell> but I'm trying to get the cheapest module possible for our intial use case - which can then be scaled up at a later date to a more powerful module if needed
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  • [15:56:06] <jackmitchell> i.e. imx28 > am335x > im61 would be an example
  • [15:56:15] <agmlego> jackmitchell: And how many of these widgets are you making, at what budget?
  • [15:56:20] <jackmitchell> of scaling as time goes on and module costs come down
  • [15:56:33] <jackmitchell> we're very small, 100 unit batches
  • [15:56:44] <jackmitchell> never more than 1000
  • [15:57:16] <jackmitchell> we're a very niche company, often doing custom software/hardware designs
  • [15:57:43] <jackmitchell> but my new design is modular so we always start with a good base instead of re-inventing the wheel everytime as we have been doing
  • [15:58:11] <agmlego> Budget?
  • [15:58:34] <jackmitchell> i.e. new project used to mean new processor, new OS and totally new codebase
  • [15:58:52] <jackmitchell> I would like to aim for < ??30 per module
  • [15:59:10] <jackmitchell> current am335x modules are coming in at ??40-??50
  • [15:59:12] <agmlego> That being GBP?
  • [15:59:15] <jackmitchell> yes
  • [15:59:25] <agmlego> OK, fonts are being weird here.
  • [15:59:51] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Where are you looking?
  • [16:00:13] <jackmitchell> directinsight, variscite, phytec and hitex at the moment
  • [16:00:16] <agmlego> Digikey has the AM335x for $26.70/1, which is like 16.82 GBP.
  • [16:00:28] <agmlego> Price breaks take that even lower.
  • [16:00:51] <jackmitchell> is that for a module, or just for the chip?
  • [16:00:58] * dj_pi (~asd@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [16:01:04] <agmlego> What do you mean by module?
  • [16:01:10] <agmlego> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AM3352ZCE50/296-34803-ND/3503748
  • [16:01:47] <jackmitchell> http://www.directinsight.co.uk/products/karo/triton-tx48-AM3354-AM3358.html
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  • [16:02:50] <agmlego> Ah, you want someone to do all the design work for you. ;-P
  • [16:03:20] <jackmitchell> agmlego: yes, our hardware guys are well behind us software at the moment
  • [16:03:28] <agmlego> jackmitchell: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crystalfontz/cfa-10036-open-hackable-linux-arm-embedded-gpio-mo
  • [16:03:40] <agmlego> Remember, you never mentioned a timeframe. ;-P
  • [16:03:45] <crashovrd> LOL
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  • [16:04:34] <crashovrd> $45 for the hardware
  • [16:04:47] <crashovrd> the $25 raspberry pi is still a better value
  • [16:05:11] <agmlego> Ah, right, I am working the exchange rate backwards again.
  • [16:05:13] <jackmitchell> something along those lines would be perfect, apart from I would want integrated NAND rather than micro sd cards
  • [16:05:16] <crashovrd> and will actually have a longer life
  • [16:05:49] <jackmitchell> raspberry pi is also good, apart from dodgy kernel support and I don't know if the quality of the hardware would be up to production quality
  • [16:05:53] * guanucoluis (~luis@190.123.120.234) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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  • [16:06:32] <crashovrd> its made by sony facility
  • [16:06:35] <jackmitchell> if they did a white label Raspberry Pi and there was some plan for mainline integration from broadcom I would be all over it
  • [16:06:40] <crashovrd> but i guess it depends on ur environment
  • [16:06:53] <agmlego> How do you mean dodgy kernel support?
  • [16:06:56] <crashovrd> you pay extra for industrial hardening
  • [16:06:57] <jackmitchell> we're looking at these things lasting a minimum of 10 years really
  • [16:07:09] <jackmitchell> which most pre-build modules come with
  • [16:07:45] <crashovrd> well at this point i think you are going to be stuck paying a premium
  • [16:07:53] <jackmitchell> RasPi kernel support is lacking to be nice about it, there is Stephen Warren from nVidia working on it but apart from that....
  • [16:07:54] <crashovrd> as you asking for a lot
  • [16:08:09] <crashovrd> from a consumer oriented disposable society
  • [16:08:31] <agmlego> Yeah. You want long module life, long product line life, hardening, and high-quality boards, in low quantities.
  • [16:08:46] <agmlego> YOu are kind of at the get-what-you-pay-for point...
  • [16:08:47] <crashovrd> re Pi kernel: i think you are confusing it with Tegra
  • [16:08:51] <agmlego> ^^^
  • [16:08:53] <crashovrd> nvidia does tegra
  • [16:08:57] <crashovrd> PI is broadcom
  • [16:09:27] <jackmitchell> tegra is closed off to anything under 1000's of units
  • [16:09:40] <jackmitchell> they're very funny about it
  • [16:10:40] <crashovrd> https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux
  • [16:10:46] <crashovrd> that is the Pi kernel work
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  • [16:11:39] <jackmitchell> yes I;ve seen, I run a couple of Pi's at home, but they're far from being worthy in real world use
  • [16:11:44] * thurbad (~natesewel@64.132.24.36) has joined #beagle
  • [16:11:52] <Donny3000> Does anyone have experience using the ePWM module of the Beaglebone?
  • [16:12:13] <crashovrd> oh, i dont think i would trust a Pi to run industrial equipment
  • [16:12:20] <crashovrd> or nuclear facilities
  • [16:12:24] <crashovrd> ;)
  • [16:12:29] <jackmitchell> :D
  • [16:13:24] <jackmitchell> I just want a cheap, off the shelf, Linux module that doesn't have a massively old, evil vendor kernel
  • [16:13:45] <jackmitchell> and is built not using crap 1 year consumer grade components
  • [16:13:54] <mdp> koen, "evil vendor kernel" :)
  • [16:14:15] <agmlego> jackmitchell: I think you may want to build one yourself then. ;-P
  • [16:14:20] <crashovrd> well, i think you just signed up for in-house production of said module
  • [16:14:23] <crashovrd> :)
  • [16:14:32] <crashovrd> wow
  • [16:14:39] <crashovrd> we r in agreement i guess
  • [16:15:10] <jackmitchell> I don't really understand why they don't exist. Am I asking for something odd?
  • [16:15:16] <crashovrd> YES
  • [16:15:27] <crashovrd> cost over life
  • [16:15:47] <crashovrd> and add in industrial
  • [16:15:47] <jackmitchell> I think ??30 per module is quite a generous starting point
  • [16:16:13] * thurbad (~natesewel@64.132.24.36) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [16:16:14] <jonand> um, if your business is in the 100ths of units modules from vendors like phytec and variscite should be right in price for you
  • [16:16:18] * flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [16:16:32] * flo_lap is now known as florian
  • [16:16:41] <jackmitchell> yes those two are on my list and looking most likely
  • [16:17:29] <jackmitchell> I suppose I had imagined in my head someone pumping out thousands of these general purpose modules at a low price point
  • [16:17:46] <agmlego> What would they be used for, do you think?
  • [16:17:58] <jonand> have a look at jorjin if you don't need physical ports
  • [16:17:59] <agmlego> What is the target market that is supposed to be buying thousands of these?
  • [16:18:12] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [16:18:26] <agmlego> Just because *you* have a use for a few hundred does not a market make.
  • [16:18:51] <jackmitchell> companies who need low cost arm modules, without the overhead of design or material aquisition
  • [16:18:59] <crashovrd> out of morbid curiosity i have to ask: what is the worst case scenario in the event of module failure?
  • [16:18:59] <agmlego> Companies are not long in the world of making product with no one to sell it to.
  • [16:19:06] <crashovrd> are we talking loss of life? loss of limbs?
  • [16:19:09] <jackmitchell> no
  • [16:19:13] <crashovrd> zombie appocalypse?
  • [16:19:14] <agmlego> Loss of a crossword puzzle?
  • [16:19:27] <jackmitchell> possibly loss of tv
  • [16:19:32] <crashovrd> :S
  • [16:19:34] <mru> loss of temper
  • [16:19:34] * jpirko (jirka@nat/redhat/x-thyiyropxlnctfvu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [16:19:41] <crashovrd> get a $25 PI
  • [16:19:50] <crashovrd> order 2 of them
  • [16:19:54] <jonand> or a mk802
  • [16:19:54] <crashovrd> to replace in 5 yrs
  • [16:20:00] <jackmitchell> *tv at the broadcasting end
  • [16:20:01] <jonand> if you need hdmi anyway
  • [16:20:02] <crashovrd> (per unit)
  • [16:20:09] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Ah, so you are making yet another set-top box.
  • [16:20:15] <agmlego> Oh.
  • [16:20:26] <jonand> no money in the headend?!
  • [16:20:31] <agmlego> So you are making yet another broadcasting widget.
  • [16:20:37] <jsabeaudry> Anyone aware of a tree with a rebase workflow like kernerl.org/linux-omap but more up-to-date with regards to beaglebone?
  • [16:21:21] * thurbad (~natesewel@64.132.24.36) has joined #beagle
  • [16:21:36] <jackmitchell> agmlego: we're a long time established broadcast engineering company, yes
  • [16:22:27] <agmlego> jackmitchell: Long-time established, byut with no budget?
  • [16:23:25] <jackmitchell> we have a budget and we could pay a lot for a module, but the cheaper the product is the better
  • [16:23:37] <mru> agmlego: two weeks can feel like a very long time
  • [16:23:55] <_av500_> jackmitchell: you ask too much :)
  • [16:23:58] <jackmitchell> if it's what we have to pay, we'll pay it, but I'm just trying to find out if there are viable alternatives
  • [16:24:00] <_av500_> modules there are
  • [16:24:03] <_av500_> chaeap they are not
  • [16:24:09] <agmlego> mru: Two weeks?
  • [16:24:13] <_av500_> for the aforementoined reasons
  • [16:24:23] <mdp> jackmitchell: we are a long established company with no budget here. ;)
  • [16:24:34] <jackmitchell> mdp: ;)
  • [16:25:11] <aholler> there is a reason (or more than one) why industrial stuff costs more than consumer grade foo
  • [16:25:37] <jackmitchell> I was hoping someone would be able to point out a few more module manufacturers to take into account, or maybe a slightly older chip which is going for cheap these days
  • [16:26:08] <jackmitchell> but it seems chip price is irrelevant and the cost is in the BOM and production
  • [16:26:16] <aholler> chips will go up with prices
  • [16:26:22] <aholler> not down ;)
  • [16:26:26] <Em`Zee> Let's see if this try at Narcissus works
  • [16:26:35] * Donny3000 (81a20125@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.162.1.37) has left #beagle
  • [16:27:13] <jackmitchell> which is why super dooper chips tend to be the same price as there lack-luster siblings
  • [16:27:41] <_av500_> well, the chip is part of the BOM
  • [16:28:12] <jackmitchell> yeah, appologies I wasn;t clean I was referring to the amount of support chips for the SoC
  • [16:28:17] <jackmitchell> s/clean/clear
  • [16:29:26] <aholler> think in terms of 10a or such got almost impossible. best bet is to have a look at the automotive market
  • [16:29:43] <_av500_> 10a?
  • [16:29:59] <aholler> for industrial parts, yes
  • [16:30:13] <_av500_> 10ys
  • [16:30:14] <_av500_> ok
  • [16:30:49] <_av500_> keeping a chip in mainline support for 10ys can be challenging :)
  • [16:30:56] <aholler> there is no si for years and a is imho the closest
  • [16:31:05] <_av500_> if you insist on constant kernel updates
  • [16:31:33] <_av500_> if not, evil vendor kernel is as good as any
  • [16:31:37] <aholler> not really, once it is in, things are smoothly
  • [16:31:48] <_av500_> yeah right
  • [16:32:09] <aholler> at least if there aren't dozens people chaning everything ;)
  • [16:32:23] <aholler> and arm will settle too
  • [16:32:33] <aholler> hopefully
  • [16:32:35] <_av500_> next year, if your chip does not have systemd bindings, it's out...
  • [16:33:26] <_av500_> jackmitchell: if your budget allow it, just use a bone
  • [16:33:26] <aholler> doesn't systemd integrate the hw?
  • [16:33:30] <jackmitchell> we don't need industrial spec components like automotive etc but also something thats not made of spit and selotape
  • [16:33:52] <jackmitchell> _av500_: yes I'm looking into the white label bones
  • [16:34:01] <_av500_> still the same thing for 10ys support
  • [16:34:11] <_av500_> dunno if CCO would commit to that
  • [16:34:21] <_av500_> well, you can always buy lifetime stock
  • [16:34:43] <jackmitchell> it's a bit of a different adventure for us as we have always made our own modules in the past
  • [16:35:05] <jackmitchell> yes stocking up is probably going to be the way to fix it
  • [16:35:32] <jackmitchell> but also using linux means that it is easy to port as well, so we could just transfer over if production becomes an issue
  • [16:35:41] <_av500_> yup
  • [16:35:50] <_av500_> your perl script can run anywhere :)
  • [16:36:02] <mdp> _av500_, depends on the chip...it's easy to see 10 years in mainline if you ignore the consumer arm parts
  • [16:36:31] <jackmitchell> mdp: and we don't need 10yr mainline support per se, I would just like mainline support for the development
  • [16:36:35] <crashovrd> i dont get why you need a 10 yr module if your needs are generic
  • [16:36:36] <_av500_> mdp: thing is, do you care?
  • [16:36:37] * lyakh (~lyakh@dslb-188-109-033-173.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
  • [16:36:44] <jackmitchell> once, we get an image, that will most likely be it
  • [16:36:44] <crashovrd> you can replace module A with module B in a year
  • [16:36:52] <_av500_> jackmitchell: exactly
  • [16:37:09] <_av500_> we shipped products with 2y old kernel
  • [16:37:18] <_av500_> and everybody was ooh and aahhh
  • [16:37:21] <_av500_> how bad of us
  • [16:37:25] <_av500_> so what
  • [16:37:26] <mdp> _av500_: dunno, just responding to your comment about hard to find 10 years in mainline
  • [16:37:33] <_av500_> it did what was advertised
  • [16:37:49] <_av500_> mdp: yeah
  • [16:37:53] <jackmitchell> crashovrd: well our products are in the field and will be bought/used for the next 10-15 years
  • [16:38:02] <mdp> _av500_: I think the general view of things continues to be cast by the long-time shitty support for arm in the kernel and the general poor attention to linux that arm licensees have had
  • [16:38:18] <mdp> so people think that's "normal"
  • [16:38:18] <jackmitchell> we still sell cards today that were first produced in the 80's
  • [16:38:30] <crashovrd> well, pass along the 10yr cost to the customer and order industrial modules
  • [16:38:57] <_av500_> mdp: the next 10ys in the kernel will be arm
  • [16:39:01] <crashovrd> companies come and go in the blink of eye these days
  • [16:39:06] <_av500_> and an occasional X86 revamp my intel
  • [16:39:15] <crashovrd> there is no guarantee your board vendor will be around in a month much less 10 years
  • [16:39:16] <jackmitchell> we do, but it still doesn't mean that we try to get the cheapest possibly price point for the product
  • [16:39:50] <mdp> _av500_, yeah, it's somewhat scary given the poor track record of ARM support
  • [16:42:23] <_av500_> mdp: nobody foresaw a dozen chinese SoC manufacturers spitting out chips every 3 months
  • [16:43:05] <aholler> the comments at your url are funny
  • [16:43:21] <_av500_> ?
  • [16:43:31] <aholler> they don't know what they produce
  • [16:43:40] <_av500_> olimex?
  • [16:43:40] <aholler> (a10x)
  • [16:43:43] <_av500_> ah
  • [16:43:45] <_av500_> of course not
  • [16:43:48] <_av500_> its a chinese chip
  • [16:43:54] <_av500_> its like a fortune cookie
  • [16:44:00] <_av500_> just smaller
  • [16:44:16] <jackmitchell> and less rational
  • [16:48:20] <bradfa> jackmitchell, sorry I'm late to the party, but basically my experience is if you want something to be around for a while you make it yourself and then become good friends with the vendors of each part you want
  • [16:48:22] <bradfa> last time buys are fun
  • [16:49:07] <bradfa> I used to work at Xerox, they did some last time buys in the 90s which then ran out of stock around 2008, at which point hilarity ensued.
  • [16:49:13] <mdp> you probably shouldn't buy parts that are primarily targeted at consumer markets
  • [16:49:33] <bradfa> mdp, thus PowerPC and m68k still are viable platforms
  • [16:49:58] <bradfa> and some ARM9 stuff
  • [16:50:04] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) has joined #beagle
  • [16:50:10] <mdp> bradfa, yep, when I was at moto and working powerpc, our salaries were still paid by VME board sales with m68k from a decade earlier
  • [16:50:10] <bradfa> and if you're the gov-ment pentiums
  • [16:50:25] <bradfa> VME, oh how I loved the
  • [16:50:34] <mdp> bradfa, that stuff is still sold as FRUs today
  • [16:50:44] <bradfa> mdp, it still powers an amazing amount of machines
  • [16:51:03] <mdp> it's not subject to the ADD of the consumer market
  • [16:51:03] <bradfa> Xerox is still transistioing from 68040 to PowerPC in some places :)
  • [16:51:15] <bradfa> at least they were
  • [16:51:17] <bradfa> when I left
  • [16:51:29] <bradfa> and VxWorks to Linux
  • [16:51:46] <jackmitchell> bradfa: yes, I believe that's what we've done in the past - I'm trying to save our hardware engineer some time and effort (and hence get the product to market quicker)
  • [16:52:08] <bradfa> jackmitchell, saving hardware engineers time and effort != long lifetime product
  • [16:52:09] <bradfa> :)
  • [16:52:17] <_av500_> :)
  • [16:52:29] <aholler> outsource it
  • [16:52:41] <mdp> bradfa, when I transferred to the vme/cpci commericial group, my day job was vxworks..."night job" was hacking linux on those boards ;)
  • [16:52:43] <aholler> as everything, and thon wonder aboput missing knowledge
  • [16:52:44] <bradfa> quick, cheap, good, long life (you pick 2)
  • [16:53:12] <bradfa> mdp, I wouldn't midn hacking on powerpc and m68k
  • [16:53:30] <bradfa> old stuff usually has errata that actually document the chip :)
  • [16:53:34] <mdp> bradfa, in '98 companies like nortel already had people working on a linux platform to rollout to product teams in the future
  • [16:53:35] <bradfa> or they fix em
  • [16:53:43] <mdp> hehe
  • [16:53:52] <bradfa> can't say the same for mdp's employer :)
  • [16:54:02] <bradfa> at least not the chipcon stuffs
  • [16:54:05] <mdp> bradfa, they pay the bills!
  • [16:54:08] <bradfa> mdp, true
  • [16:54:14] <mdp> consume our stuff!
  • [16:54:19] <_av500_> there is always qnx for real work
  • [16:54:23] <bradfa> mdp, we do, we do
  • [16:54:40] * guanucoluis (~luis@190.123.122.242) has joined #beagleboard
  • [16:54:47] <mdp> _av500_: true that...as long as it's running on TI silicon..it's ok to choose qnx by me ;)
  • [16:55:12] <_av500_> mdp: in the cloud of course
  • [16:55:19] <bradfa> really what I want is RHEL on ARM and PowerPC
  • [16:55:21] <mdp> hehe
  • [16:55:27] <bradfa> and then a license fee that's reasonable
  • [16:55:29] <mdp> you had me at "cloud"
  • [16:55:39] * mdp is now in a cloud trance
  • [16:56:06] <mdp> bradfa, you can have RHEL on aargh64 :)
  • [16:56:18] * emeb is more in a fog
  • [16:56:27] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
  • [16:56:33] <bradfa> mdp, but I can't actually buy silicon it'll run on in units less than millions (yet)
  • [16:56:40] <bradfa> can I?
  • [16:56:46] <mdp> bradfa, but the vision is in place
  • [16:56:50] <bradfa> vision
  • [16:56:53] <mdp> you should be able to go pretty far on vision
  • [16:56:55] <bradfa> mdp is getting MBA?
  • [16:57:05] <bradfa> :)
  • [16:57:23] <mdp> lol
  • [16:57:38] * mdp is reading this thread on the latest "bone doesn't boot upstream" thing
  • [16:57:56] <bradfa> well, booting is subjective
  • [16:58:14] <aholler> hmm, I wonder why there is no si for years. maybe because they are unable to define it in other terms like seconds?
  • [16:58:15] <mdp> yeah, people want the uart to spit out all that spam..otherwise they think it doesn't work
  • [16:58:41] <aholler> blinking led isn't enough?
  • [16:58:48] <mdp> I guess not
  • [16:59:16] <aholler> it's an faq term -> led blinks, box runs
  • [16:59:37] <bradfa> aholler, blinking LEDs means that LED subsystem and timers work!
  • [16:59:44] <bradfa> that's way better than just a uart
  • [17:00:39] * NulL (~bleh1@87.254.84.104) has joined #beagle
  • [17:00:45] * bradfa gets back to building .deb packages...
  • [17:01:03] * NulL is now known as Guest70803
  • [17:02:57] * Gaston|Home (~Gaston@ua-83-227-239-139.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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  • [17:04:34] <mdp> aholler, apparently since the upstream kernel doesn't support mmc yet, that's something that needs "fixed" ;)
  • [17:04:36] * icota (~quassel@dh207-27-108.xnet.hr) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [17:04:49] <mdp> in my world, that's a feature not something to be fixed ;)
  • [17:05:11] * felipealmeida (~user@querubim.tecgraf.puc-rio.br) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [17:06:09] <_av500_> koen: useless why?
  • [17:06:19] <aholler> good old nand ;)
  • [17:07:30] <aholler> btw., I've heared allwinner now has a proprietary libnand ;)
  • [17:07:48] <_av500_> RK has that too
  • [17:07:52] <_av500_> for some reason
  • [17:08:25] <_av500_> maybe its nothing proprietary but just a "dongle"
  • [17:10:52] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-jripoagypeqmgbig) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [17:11:03] <mdp> nand is highly competitive technology...need to keep that sekrit
  • [17:11:29] <aholler> who knows what's in their evil plan to conquer the world
  • [17:11:31] * ka6sox-away is now known as ka6sox
  • [17:12:03] <aholler> hopefully they have pinky's ;)
  • [17:13:08] <jsabeaudry> Any idea what causes the reboot to fail?
  • [17:13:27] <jsabeaudry> "Reboot failed - System halted"
  • [17:13:36] <aholler> I've seen a patch for such recently
  • [17:13:40] <NishanthMenon> jsabeaudry, most probably reboot hook is missing
  • [17:14:15] <aholler> was something with clock fixes or similiar
  • [17:14:34] * alan_o (~alan@c-68-62-254-211.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [17:15:13] <NishanthMenon> aholler, sounds right - at least 3.8-rc4 has .restart hook initialized
  • [17:16:16] <jsabeaudry> Oh sweet, so it's fixed in 3.8-rc4! Joy!
  • [17:16:54] <mdp> aholler, their plan cannot succeed without Brain
  • [17:17:20] * mthalmei_away is now known as mthalmei
  • [17:17:24] <mdp> I think the plan is clear: cheap
  • [17:17:33] <NishanthMenon> v3.7-rc2-123-g187e3e0 seems to be when it was introduced
  • [17:17:47] <alan_o> mdp: trying to take over the world?
  • [17:17:47] <ka6sox> wmat, best, easiest to understand article on DT @ elinux.org
  • [17:18:35] * mthalmei is now known as mthalmei_away
  • [17:18:45] * XorA|gone is now known as XorA
  • [17:19:58] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-cfwygmrbhkmixirr) has joined #beagle
  • [17:21:17] <jsabeaudry> NishanthMenon, where is .restart hook?
  • [17:22:05] <NishanthMenon> jsabeaudry, arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3beagle.c
  • [17:22:22] <NishanthMenon> look towards MACHINE_END
  • [17:23:08] <jsabeaudry> NishanthMenon, Thanks!
  • [17:23:15] <NishanthMenon> jsabeaudry, np
  • [17:23:25] <Em`Zee> So, I feel like a bit of an idiot, but I can't figure out how to make Narcissus work for me. I've selected beaglebone, it puts on just angstrom-task-boot, udev, systemd, systemd-compat-units, and angstrom-version
  • [17:23:37] <Em`Zee> But I can't see anything on the LCD -- like, nothing at all comes up
  • [17:23:47] <Em`Zee> even after 3 minutes of waiting for it to set up a tty :P
  • [17:24:10] <Em`Zee> (mind, stock Angstrom works on this no problem)
  • [17:24:19] <jsabeaudry> Em`Zee, you get nothing on the serial ?
  • [17:24:46] <Em`Zee> no null modem cable here, I'm just trusting the LCD
  • [17:25:05] <XorA> would need some form of gui task
  • [17:25:18] * florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) has joined #beagle
  • [17:25:20] <XorA> it looks like you selected console only
  • [17:25:21] <Em`Zee> on stock angstrom, I saw the tty come up...?
  • [17:25:27] <Em`Zee> Nope, I selected base X
  • [17:25:34] <Em`Zee> no window manager, but just "X11"
  • [17:25:44] <XorA> then X wont start
  • [17:25:46] <XorA> AFAIK
  • [17:25:49] <Em`Zee> (I want to try to get something like lxde on there but Narcissus doesn't have an option for it)
  • [17:26:57] <Em`Zee> Also, if I'm using just a disk imager program (win32 disk imager), should I be using OMAP SD or OMAP SD+UBI?
  • [17:27:52] <crashovrd> i never got an image from narcissus when i selected a SD image
  • [17:27:55] <XorA> UBI is for onboard flash
  • [17:27:58] <crashovrd> dont know if that is part of your problem or not
  • [17:28:10] <Em`Zee> I got a gzipped image, that was okay
  • [17:28:27] <Em`Zee> alright, so just SD. I think that's what I used, but I'm going to try again with xfce enabled
  • [17:29:04] <aholler> did you have had a look if X really did't start?
  • [17:29:38] * arcanescu (925706ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.87.6.239) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [17:29:49] <wmat> ka6sox: DT?
  • [17:30:32] <alan_o> wmat: yeah, I think that can probably help us here
  • [17:30:43] <Em`Zee> aholler; I have no other way into the device, but I was under the impression that the LCD4 would start as a standard output device, not contingent on X bindings
  • [17:31:00] <Em`Zee> Angstrom normally gives me a tty, at least, so I figured a narcissus-baked version would too
  • [17:31:01] <Em`Zee> :P
  • [17:31:21] <wmat> alan_o: what are we talking about?
  • [17:31:42] <wmat> dynamic tracing?
  • [17:31:57] <Em`Zee> XorA; Looks like a moot point, btw
  • [17:32:03] <Em`Zee> xfce won't go into the image
  • [17:32:08] <Em`Zee> narcissus fails
  • [17:32:25] * guanucoluis (~luis@190.123.122.242) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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  • [17:32:27] <ka6sox> wmat, device tree (or Flattened Device Tree rather)
  • [17:32:53] <ka6sox> Em`Zee, why is that a narcissus fail?
  • [17:33:19] <Em`Zee> ka6sox; That when I check "xfce", Narcissus gives me two red "X"s when it tries to bake the image?
  • [17:33:31] <mdp> alan_o, +1, always helps!
  • [17:34:46] <aholler> Em`Zee: if you don't have a serial you always can fiddle with some echo foo >/bar.txt in some scripts on the sd-card. enabling logs (somewhere where they are persistent) might be an idea too
  • [17:35:02] * woglinde (~henning@f052238121.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #beagle
  • [17:35:26] <Em`Zee> I'm not even convinced it's booting; the NIC lights won't even come on :P
  • [17:35:36] <mdp> koen, your g+ pwm thread is now becoming amusing
  • [17:36:06] <wmat> ka6sox: there was 2 presentations of device tree at elce2012
  • [17:36:12] * DevBot (~supybot@2001:6f8:12e0::7) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:37:02] <wmat> ka6sox: http://elinux.org/Device_Trees
  • [17:37:21] <ka6sox> that one
  • [17:37:24] * Vadtec (~Vadtec@unaffiliated/vadtec) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:37:27] <ka6sox> (need coffee)
  • [17:37:44] <wmat> you may need beer ;)
  • [17:37:49] <ka6sox> wmat, true!
  • [17:38:00] * dm8tbr (dm8tbr@cl-790.ham-01.de.sixxs.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  • [17:38:06] <ka6sox> will I see you at ELC (yes mranostay...I am planning on going)
  • [17:38:29] * wmat will be there
  • [17:38:41] <koen> sweet
  • [17:38:45] <wmat> probably trading pizza for elinux.org wiki edits ;)
  • [17:38:49] <Em`Zee> ka6sox; If it's not a narcissus fail, that's great -- I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong :P
  • [17:38:54] <koen> wmat: \o/
  • [17:39:02] <ka6sox> hiya koen
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  • [17:39:25] <ka6sox> Em`Zee, hmmmm
  • [17:39:31] <Em`Zee> I suppose it's possible that's a feed fail, but I'm using the 2012.5 set
  • [17:39:32] * mrpackethead_ (~mrpacketh@118-93-95-178.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #beagle
  • [17:39:57] <Em`Zee> For reference, I'm using the "beaglebone" machine template on koen's shiny new narcissus :P
  • [17:40:01] <Em`Zee> http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/narcissus/ <- That one
  • [17:40:28] <ka6sox> then thats not my server that is doing that :D
  • [17:40:52] <Em`Zee> haha
  • [17:41:19] <Em`Zee> put the beaglebone target platform on your server and I'll try it there ;)
  • [17:41:24] <ka6sox> mdp, what day are you having the BoF?
  • [17:42:00] <mdp> I dunno when they will schedule it
  • [17:42:17] <mdp> I have to leave friday morning so I predict wed or thurs!
  • [17:43:47] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-cfwygmrbhkmixirr) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [17:43:56] * ka6sox hopes for Wednesday...
  • [17:44:02] * _roger_ (~a0740758@nat/ti/x-vconkquombugnrew) has joined #beagle
  • [17:44:06] <ka6sox> I may have to fly out thursday
  • [17:45:25] <Em`Zee> koen; Any thoughts on my xfce issue, or am I just doing something horribly wrong? ;)
  • [17:47:54] * sr105 (~sr105@65349hfc19.tampabay.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
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  • [17:53:32] <XorA> hey koen
  • [17:58:17] * shoragan (~jlu@debian/developer/shoragan) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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  • [17:59:42] * Em`Zee rides the wave
  • [18:00:58] * BThompson (bhthompson@nat/google/x-lprqxrrnmvtzmyae) has joined #beagle
  • [18:02:18] <XorA> hey ka6sox
  • [18:02:53] <ka6sox> morning XorA
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  • [18:15:46] <aholler> hehe, koen discovered nonthreading in python ;)
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  • [18:31:37] <spacecolonyone> Hi All, Just dropping in to mention I finally found a solution to my issue of the BBxM with angstrom and connman not pulling an IP on a USB ethernet device automatically: ./test-connman autoconnect <service> true
  • [18:40:01] <aholler> speaking about long term availability, I think at least the am1808 will be available at least years ;)
  • [18:40:07] <aholler> +5
  • [18:40:59] <mdp> aholler, it ends up some interesting places, yes ;)
  • [18:41:37] <mdp> from the real consumer product stuff but mostly on industrial from what I've seen
  • [18:41:47] <mdp> EV3 is like both
  • [18:42:07] <_av500_> mdp: isnt it in ti calculators now?
  • [18:42:45] <mdp> omap4 is in my android-based calculator
  • [18:42:52] <aholler> the nxt was sold first in 2006.
  • [18:42:53] <mdp> which I hope can run linux some day
  • [18:43:01] <toneeee> mmmmmm.
  • [18:43:26] <mdp> aholler: yeah, they don't operate their platforms like a handset OEM ;)
  • [18:45:57] <aholler> but they had some very short living stuff too, e.g. the cybermaster
  • [18:47:40] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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  • [18:50:56] <aholler> but it missed such a nice point&click programming ide, so it got fast boring for kids
  • [18:52:19] <Em`Zee> No love
  • [18:52:31] <Em`Zee> Man, I must be totally missing something with Narcissus
  • [18:52:58] <aholler> we can't look inside your system.
  • [18:53:06] <Em`Zee> I wish you could :P
  • [18:53:21] <Em`Zee> So, LCD won't start, and NIC won't get an IP address from DHCP
  • [18:53:22] <aholler> you can't read sd-cards on your pc?
  • [18:53:32] <Em`Zee> My host computer is Windows
  • [18:53:53] <aholler> get a linux-live-cd or -stick
  • [18:54:19] <Em`Zee> sigh. let's see here.
  • [18:54:43] * Em`Zee turns around and chucks a bowling ball over the cube wall to hit his boss in the head for declaring this office a "NO LINUX ZONE"
  • [18:54:56] <aholler> there is also expore2fs or something like that to read extN on windows
  • [18:55:26] * Wipster (~Wip@cpc2-rdng23-2-0-cust135.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #beagle
  • [19:00:03] <_av500_> there are VMs too
  • [19:00:07] <_av500_> its 2013 after all
  • [19:00:14] <_av500_> we survived the end of the world
  • [19:00:15] <Em`Zee> Yeah, that's what I'm doing
  • [19:00:28] <_av500_> we should get a serial connection going
  • [19:02:19] <jsabeaudry> Is there a board file for beaglebone in 3.8 or does it use board-omap3beagle.c ?
  • [19:02:29] <aholler> but accessing an sd-card on widows from inside an vm might be challenging
  • [19:02:58] <jsabeaudry> aholler, it's pretty straight forward on virtualbox and vmware player
  • [19:03:09] <jkridner> beaglebone uses the am335x evm board file if it is there, otherwise just uses DT.
  • [19:03:17] <_av500_> jsabeaudry: isnt it all DT and not more board files?
  • [19:03:25] <_av500_> -t
  • [19:03:59] <jkridner> jsabeaudry: ah, you said 3.8. that is just DT.
  • [19:04:06] <jsabeaudry> Just DT then, because there is not am335xevm anymore
  • [19:04:07] <aholler> jsabeaudry: ah, I haven't used a vm in wonderland for many years. last time I did usb-support was mostly non-existent
  • [19:05:56] <jsabeaudry> Is there a patch to fix the restart hook for beaglebone?
  • [19:06:46] <_av500_> aholler: not everybody here is that old? ;)
  • [19:08:35] <aholler> yes, and I tend to forget that stuff on windows evolves too ;)
  • [19:10:09] <aholler> (besides exploits)
  • [19:12:14] <Em`Zee> aholler; I can do it :)
  • [19:12:24] <Em`Zee> and yeah, I remember what aholler is talking about
  • [19:12:36] <Em`Zee> I remember the old days, before virtualization was respectably usable :P
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  • [19:22:30] <koen> jkridner: http://savanne.be/articles/deploying-node-js-with-systemd/
  • [19:22:33] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [19:23:06] <_av500_> it all comes together nicely
  • [19:23:27] <_av500_> two rockstar paradigms combined
  • [19:23:34] * mrpackethead_ (~mrpacketh@118-93-95-178.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [19:23:37] <alan_o> systemd: badass rockstar tech?
  • [19:24:23] <_av500_> lets call it hipster rockstar tech
  • [19:24:30] <KotH> would some troll be so kind and give me one usecase where node.js is the right tool to use?
  • [19:24:51] * KotH has tried to find one, but was unsuccessfull so far
  • [19:25:05] <_av500_> werft ihn zu poden!
  • [19:25:13] <KotH> ^^;
  • [19:25:31] <KotH> aber ich bin doch kein p?hser pube!
  • [19:26:45] <emeb> you germans and your crazy moon-man lingo
  • [19:27:02] <ka6sox> arthropods?
  • [19:27:15] <KotH> emeb: that's actualyl a monthy python reference :)
  • [19:27:39] <emeb> I understand Monty Python is funniest when performed in the original german.
  • [19:27:42] <ka6sox> anyone know of a inline IRC translator/
  • [19:27:55] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #beagle
  • [19:28:10] <KotH> ka6sox: if there is one, let me know.. i'll start speak swiss german then :)
  • [19:28:27] <_av500_> emeb: +1
  • [19:28:36] <agmlego> KotH: There used to be a mIRC script.
  • [19:28:43] <agmlego> But no one uses mIRC anymore.
  • [19:28:46] <_av500_> dm8tbr: ^^^ dont you have that?
  • [19:28:54] <Em`Zee> agmlego; ...
  • [19:28:55] <KotH> agmlego: mirc did never exist
  • [19:28:56] * Em`Zee hides
  • [19:29:00] <agmlego> Proabably could whip something up pretty quick for irssi though--those scripts are Perl.
  • [19:29:07] * panto (~panto@195.97.110.117) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [19:29:10] <agmlego> Er, ka6sox
  • [19:29:18] <Em`Zee> I use mIRC, but that's mostly because I don't care enough to find a different windows IRC client that's not X-Chat
  • [19:29:51] <aholler> ust use a real os, make everything easier ;)
  • [19:29:52] <Em`Zee> (that supports Japanese input and doesn't look like crap)
  • [19:30:09] <Em`Zee> aholler; *shakes head*
  • [19:30:30] <Em`Zee> To be fair, I have 2 linux machines; a netbook running backtrack and a workstation running Gentoo
  • [19:30:36] <Em`Zee> Just not at work
  • [19:30:56] <agmlego> This is what putty + screen + irssi is for.
  • [19:30:57] <agmlego> ;-P
  • [19:31:20] <aholler> I wonder how EE
  • [19:31:23] <Em`Zee> Also I like the fact that I can really easily hit two keys and type out ?????????
  • [19:31:24] <XorA> ERC for work for the win :-D
  • [19:31:42] <aholler> I wonder how EEs can still use windows since drivers have to be signed
  • [19:31:51] <Em`Zee> Everyone at work keeps telling me I'll have control over the IT policy
  • [19:32:01] <Em`Zee> ... whenever we actually have time to make an IT infrastructure
  • [19:32:03] <XorA> aholler: there is no such requirement
  • [19:32:14] <agmlego> aholler: You can turn that off.
  • [19:32:25] <agmlego> XorA: On Windows 8 by default there is.
  • [19:32:43] <aholler> if you turn it off you such an ugly watermark and something doesn't work
  • [19:32:50] <XorA> agmlego: by default for 7 also, but its not a requirement, it can be changed
  • [19:32:53] <Em`Zee> Windows 8, buuuuhhhhh
  • [19:32:54] <agmlego> Not in my experience.
  • [19:33:17] * agmlego runs all manner of unsigned drivers with no watermarking and no issues.
  • [19:33:23] <KotH> aholler: a lot of EEs still use xp :)
  • [19:33:28] * agmlego works at an industrial automation house.
  • [19:33:33] <aholler> agmlego: win32 then
  • [19:33:37] * Em`Zee works at a software company
  • [19:33:47] <Em`Zee> that doesn't understand Linux *bangs head against wall*
  • [19:33:48] <Em`Zee> :P
  • [19:34:01] * _av500_ works at a french company
  • [19:34:04] <KotH> aholler: though it has been declining since the release of win7
  • [19:34:22] <agmlego> aholler: Win7 64-bit Professional, standard loadout on every machine we own.
  • [19:34:48] <KotH> Em`Zee: actually, that's pretty normal
  • [19:34:56] <Em`Zee> =/
  • [19:35:01] <XorA> my comapny is standardised on Win7, Fedora and CentOS :-D
  • [19:35:03] * Em`Zee loses 1% more faith in humanity
  • [19:35:12] <KotH> Em`Zee: i know people who have been using linux for more than 5 years, but still need an ubuntuized desktop to get around
  • [19:35:21] <XorA> of course that is only 4 machines :-D
  • [19:35:22] <Em`Zee> *that* is sad
  • [19:35:30] <KotH> Em`Zee: managing stuff like packages or even lvm is beyond their grasp
  • [19:35:37] <Em`Zee> The first program I open when my Linux desktop is Terminal
  • [19:35:37] <Em`Zee> :P
  • [19:35:44] <aholler> agmlego: win7 64 without the need for signed drivers and no watermark? sounds like you have some good win-hackers
  • [19:35:45] <Em`Zee> *is booted, is Terminal
  • [19:35:47] <dm8tbr> _av500_: I did. but google abandoned the translation IP, so it doesn't work
  • [19:35:49] <Em`Zee> I forgot how to grammar
  • [19:35:59] <agmlego> aholler: No, pretty muchy works out of the box.
  • [19:36:10] <Em`Zee> I'm with aholler here
  • [19:37:01] <dm8tbr> s/IP/API/
  • [19:37:05] <KotH> Em`Zee: the two people who are actually responsible for the IT at our company are overwhelmed by the way how i use linux (like 10 desktop, each with at least a dozen terminal windows) and have troubles with focus follows mouse... sad thing, one of them has been using unix while i was still shitting my pants
  • [19:37:29] <KotH> Em`Zee: you can probably guess why i'm responsible for the day-to-day IT stuff these days :)
  • [19:37:32] <Em`Zee> Haha
  • [19:37:36] <Em`Zee> Yeah, definitely
  • [19:37:40] <Em`Zee> Alright, I've gotta run
  • [19:37:48] <Em`Zee> I'll attack this Narcissus thing again tomorrow
  • [19:38:13] <XorA> KotH: you obviously need a 4x4 stack of vt100s
  • [19:38:37] * Russ (~russ@pool-74-100-57-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • [19:38:47] <KotH> XorA: vt220 please.. i need some graphics from time to time :)
  • [19:38:48] <emeb> with slightly mis-calibrated pincushion distortion.
  • [19:39:04] <XorA> KotH: depends how big a beard the other guy has though :-D
  • [19:39:35] <KotH> XorA: iirc he's 45 or so
  • [19:39:36] * dj_pi (~asd@c-107-5-25-243.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [19:39:43] <emeb> Ancient!
  • [19:39:59] * emeb looks around furtively
  • [19:41:34] <ka6sox> a wall of ADM3a's
  • [19:42:02] * Russ (~russ@pool-74-100-57-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #beagle
  • [19:42:26] * djlewis tossed my last xterm
  • [19:44:27] <mranostay> dj_pi: four more years?
  • [19:44:31] <mranostay> er djlewis
  • [19:46:34] * mdp_ (~mdp@cpe-24-166-64-7.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
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  • [19:46:54] * mdp_ is now known as mdp
  • [19:47:08] <alan_o> mranostay: starting... now
  • [19:47:14] * alan_o starts watch
  • [19:47:32] <mranostay> till we elect another great choice? :)
  • [19:47:55] <mranostay> we are a streak for the last 200 years :)
  • [19:48:21] <alan_o> hey, I'm just the timekeeper here
  • [19:48:34] <alan_o> I have no political opinions whatsoever
  • [19:48:51] <mranostay> right
  • [19:49:12] <mranostay> obama does make international travel easier
  • [19:49:18] * bzb (~bzb@69-196-189-45.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [19:49:28] <alan_o> How was that? passport somesuch?
  • [19:49:59] <mranostay> alan_o: no i don't have to go through "about that guy you have in office" all the time
  • [19:52:20] <_av500_> lol
  • [19:52:38] <XorA> somewhere else in the world actually cares?
  • [19:52:40] <_av500_> alan_o: and last time I met you, you had pololitical opinions
  • [19:53:10] <emeb> horses/mallets, or shirts?
  • [19:53:19] <XorA> koen for president!!!!
  • [19:53:44] <mranostay> i know for sure koen's birth cert isn't US :)
  • [19:53:49] <emeb> XorA: aim high - God Emperor.
  • [19:54:18] <XorA> thats prpplague's job, woudlnt want to take that!
  • [19:54:49] <XorA> mranostay: it has always been expectation you guys would change that rule to allow Arnie in :-D
  • [19:55:23] <emeb> lol - that was actually referenced in the movie "Demolition Man"
  • [19:55:25] <mranostay> XorA: god no
  • [19:55:36] <XorA> emeb: Judge Dredd as well
  • [19:55:39] <mranostay> and yes i remember
  • [19:55:49] <mranostay> Taco Bell is the only place to eat too
  • [19:55:57] <emeb> XorA: didn't know that.
  • [19:56:09] <XorA> emeb: the comics that is, dont think it was mentioned in the movie
  • [19:56:30] <prpplague> XorA: jeeze, do i really come across like that
  • [19:56:33] <prpplague> XorA: ??
  • [19:56:47] <dj_pi> mranostay, looks like it
  • [19:56:50] <emeb> XorA: Ah - that's why. I've only seen the movie (execrable).
  • [19:57:11] <emeb> Demolition Man however is an underappreciated classic...
  • [19:57:38] * thweber (~thomas@81-89-104-214.blue.kundencontroller.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  • [19:57:41] <XorA> Demo Man was awesome
  • [19:57:53] <XorA> especially his workaround to the 3 shells issue
  • [19:58:10] <emeb> lol - and I liked that they never explained the 3 shells.
  • [19:58:34] <XorA> prpplague: Benevolant dictator to further mankind to its full potential?
  • [19:58:39] * cbrake (~cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) has joined #beagle
  • [19:58:45] * Kripton (kripton-fr@staff.kripserver.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [19:58:58] <XorA> prpplague: eventually leading to full integration of man and machine!
  • [20:00:38] * thweber (~thomas@81-89-104-214.blue.kundencontroller.de) has joined #beagle
  • [20:00:53] <alan_o> XorA: isnt' that what DT is for?
  • [20:01:57] <mranostay> DT is badass rockstar tech
  • [20:02:53] <XorA> DT is what happens when you take too much spice
  • [20:03:12] <mranostay> heh go for the real stuff?
  • [20:03:36] * thweber (~thomas@81-89-104-214.blue.kundencontroller.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  • [20:03:39] <mranostay> that prop almost passed last time.. almost
  • [20:05:06] <mdp> note to self: two machines on the same subnet with same IP breaks important tools like netflix
  • [20:05:14] <_av500_> minor issue
  • [20:05:30] <mdp> the natives were beating down my office door
  • [20:05:35] <mranostay> heh
  • [20:05:37] <mdp> "critical point in the movie!"
  • [20:05:44] <jsabeaudry> Is this a patch that I could apply on my 3.8 to fix the "reboot" command not working? https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/1662621/
  • [20:05:46] <mdp> IT sux ;)
  • [20:06:02] <mranostay> we don't need any stinking reboot
  • [20:06:04] <jsabeaudry> From the date it's pretty old but does not seem to be in koen's tree
  • [20:06:49] * Kripton (kripton-fr@staff.kripserver.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:06:57] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #beagleboard
  • [20:06:58] <mdp> mranostay, I implemented "reboot" by doing "~$reboot" in conmux and it tells my power control to cycle the bone ;)
  • [20:07:10] <mranostay> hehe
  • [20:07:16] <mranostay> haven't used conmux in awhile
  • [20:07:22] * felipealmeida (~user@mvx-187-16-79-187.mundivox.com) has joined #beagle
  • [20:07:25] <mdp> mranostay, kirk would be proud of how I reprogrammed the test
  • [20:07:37] * Splats (~splats@c-98-207-35-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:07:37] * Splats (~splats@c-98-207-35-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Changing host)
  • [20:07:37] * Splats (~splats@unaffiliated/splats) has joined #beagle
  • [20:07:46] <mranostay> i use the bdi to reset my bone
  • [20:08:05] <mdp> expensive relay ;)
  • [20:08:09] <mdp> but yeah, been there
  • [20:08:15] <alan_o> I press the button
  • [20:08:32] <alan_o> I need an intern to press the button for me when I type "reboot"
  • [20:08:42] <mdp> alan_o, my fingers don't leave the kbd for mundane tasks like that ;)
  • [20:08:47] <mranostay> talk to bradfa
  • [20:08:47] <alan_o> maybe some robotics on gpio for it.
  • [20:09:00] <mranostay> i can be a intern but i'm not cheap :P
  • [20:09:01] <mdp> bah
  • [20:09:12] * bradfa scrolls back
  • [20:09:22] <koen> jsabeaudry: Failed to merge in the changes.
  • [20:09:23] <koen> Patch failed at 0001 ARM: OMAP2+: am33xx: Add PRM warm reset/reboot support
  • [20:09:32] <koen> jsabeaudry: that's why
  • [20:09:39] <mranostay> alan_o: simple relay and a little soldering?
  • [20:09:44] <mdp> $89 power controller will handle all your boards...except poor designs like our am335x-evmsk...it's designed for uselessness
  • [20:09:53] * mrpackethead_ (~mrpacketh@118-93-95-178.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #beagle
  • [20:10:12] <mranostay> mdp: heh need to press a button?
  • [20:10:13] <alan_o> mranostay: I need a servo to push the button too
  • [20:10:35] <mranostay> why push? use a relay
  • [20:10:37] <_av500_> koen is building a 16 servo massive rebootbot
  • [20:10:40] <mdp> mranostay: yeah, unbelievably stupid board design :(
  • [20:10:41] * bradfa 's new intern is pretty good, would probably turn down button pushing intership
  • [20:10:44] <alan_o> mranostay: that involves taking my button off
  • [20:10:55] <alan_o> mranostay: far too lazy for that
  • [20:11:04] <mranostay> alan_o: this is a family channel
  • [20:11:13] * Kripton (kripton-fr@staff.kripserver.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [20:11:14] <mdp> bradfa, that's probably because IT increased your disk space, and you still haven't notice the huge git repos he's making full of binaries
  • [20:11:18] <mranostay> put your button back on
  • [20:11:21] <koen> _av500_: once DPD arrives tomorrow a 32 channel one
  • [20:11:26] <_av500_> omg
  • [20:11:27] <jsabeaudry> koen, do you think the patch looks acceptable, I can probably rebase it if you think the content look decent
  • [20:11:38] <_av500_> koen: you can reboot half the netherlands
  • [20:11:41] <mdp> mranostay, wait until he loosens his tie
  • [20:11:41] <_av500_> +of
  • [20:11:43] <koen> jsabeaudry: I'd take it if it actually applied and worked
  • [20:11:58] <koen> jsabeaudry: it currently fails on at least one of the 2 criteria :)
  • [20:12:36] <jsabeaudry> koen, I'll give it a spin see if it works
  • [20:16:27] <koen> thanks!
  • [20:16:29] <ka6sox> koen, so this is latest?
  • [20:16:31] <ka6sox> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap.git
  • [20:16:38] <koen> ka6sox: no
  • [20:17:15] <ka6sox> okay...at least it has the GPMC patches against rc3
  • [20:17:41] <bradfa> mdp, possibly!
  • [20:18:02] * sr105 (~sr105@65349hfc19.tampabay.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [20:18:07] * mranostay goes to walk around MV... too nice out for IRC :)
  • [20:18:13] <mdp> bradfa, solution: hire another intern to monitor the situation.
  • [20:18:18] <koen> ka6sox: it's safer to track linus'
  • [20:18:27] <bradfa> mdp, advice taken!
  • [20:18:29] <koen> ka6sox: or if you want something working, track https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/
  • [20:19:01] <ka6sox> ya, that "works" but doesn't have what I need so let me track Linus'
  • [20:22:17] <koen> ka6sox: https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/ tracks linus' tree, so I don't get why you don't use that
  • [20:22:37] * Kripton (~kripton-f@staff.kripserver.net) has joined #beagle
  • [20:23:52] <ka6sox> let me look to see if the patches for gpmc on 335x are there.
  • [20:24:14] * thweber (~thomas@81-89-104-214.blue.kundencontroller.de) has joined #beagle
  • [20:25:12] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [20:25:56] <koen> ka6sox: if not, you can add them and send a pull-request
  • [20:26:04] <koen> that way everyobody wins
  • [20:26:13] <mdp> koen, tracking linus could result in drowning if you follow him too closely
  • [20:26:20] <aholler> mdp: use lego to do that mundane task
  • [20:26:52] <ka6sox> koen, will do :D
  • [20:27:17] <mdp> aholler: I was thinking of having my junior roboticist slave labor create a button pushing robot for me
  • [20:27:18] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) has joined #beagle
  • [20:27:25] <mdp> my "intern" ;)
  • [20:28:06] <agmlego> What am I doing?
  • [20:29:26] <thweber> i look for a build system for beaglebone. is angstrom the only one?
  • [20:29:57] <XorA> thweber: the best one!
  • [20:31:49] <thweber> i use ptxdist, normally
  • [20:33:17] <florian> try oe :)
  • [20:35:05] <mrpackethead_> try debian
  • [20:35:48] <mrpackethead_> there are more opinions on O/S for beagle than people offering them.
  • [20:35:57] <mrpackethead_> some woudl say try ubuntu
  • [20:36:20] <florian> try everything but ptxdist or buildroot ;)
  • [20:37:18] * daemoneye (~daemoneye@unaffiliated/daemoneye) has left #beagle
  • [20:37:29] <mrpackethead_> i even heard rumors of "beaglian".. like raspbian for PI i guess.
  • [20:37:50] <thweber> i only want to build a qt application
  • [20:37:59] <woglinde> thweber and?
  • [20:38:15] <thweber> i think debian is to much
  • [20:38:24] <woglinde> too much for what?
  • [20:41:44] <florian> it really depends on many details... e.g. fast booting is easier to achieve using oe
  • [20:43:24] * krajo1 (~krajo1@ip4-83-240-125-22.cust.nbox.cz) has joined #beagle
  • [20:44:24] <thweber> woglinde: small flash size, maintaining, fast booting, single application
  • [20:45:23] <woglinde> bone has no flash
  • [20:46:28] <XorA> grr, why doesnt android have a single working terminal emulator :-(
  • [20:46:51] <thweber> woglinde: i also have evm and starterkit
  • [20:47:24] <florian> XorA: you have not worked with storage media in android so far, right? ;)
  • [20:47:32] <thweber> and product will have flash
  • [20:47:49] <XorA> florian: only sounds and power
  • [20:48:39] <florian> XorA: its a good start to get used to pain ;-)
  • [20:49:34] <crashovrd> i like the idea of a debian based beagle distro
  • [20:50:01] <mrpackethead_> question for the gurus.
  • [20:50:05] <crashovrd> sometimes you just wanna try different things out before settling on what you will use for production
  • [20:50:08] <mrpackethead_> is there a RTC on the beagle?
  • [20:50:11] <crashovrd> and apt-get makes that easy
  • [20:50:15] <crashovrd> without all the ubuntu bloat
  • [20:50:29] <mrpackethead_> im using debian, and it works well for me
  • [20:50:41] <jsabeaudry> Is the am3358 more a omap2xxx or a omap3xxx ?
  • [20:50:42] <_av500_> woglinde: http://blog.zeit.de/ost/2013/01/20/pankower-regierung-verbietet-bie-dees/
  • [20:51:17] <agmlego> jsabeaudry: Neither.
  • [20:51:17] <woglinde> ah yes fefe
  • [20:51:47] <agmlego> mrpackethead_: Which beagle? The xM has one, but it is disabled by default.
  • [20:51:58] <mrpackethead_> the beaglebone
  • [20:52:30] <agmlego> Looks like it has one, but no support for a battery.
  • [20:52:38] <agmlego> The xM has contacts for a battery.
  • [20:53:15] <XorA> prpplague: will sell you an RTC
  • [20:54:24] <agmlego> If you really need an RTC, it is easy enough to strap one onto one of the SPI, I2C, or UART lines on the 'bone.
  • [20:54:32] <mrpackethead_> yeah.
  • [20:54:36] <mrpackethead_> i think i'll have to do that
  • [20:54:44] <agmlego> Well, an RTC with a battery.
  • [20:54:56] <agmlego> If the device is always powered, the onboard RTC should be fine.
  • [20:55:19] <mrpackethead_> can't always guarrentee its always going to be up
  • [20:55:35] <mrpackethead_> and it wont' be network connected at boot time.
  • [20:55:35] <agmlego> Then you probably want an external, battery-backed RTC.
  • [20:55:47] <mrpackethead_> or a gps
  • [20:55:47] <mrpackethead_> :-)
  • [20:56:00] <agmlego> GPS takes a bit to grab time data.
  • [20:56:07] <mrpackethead_> yes.
  • [20:56:25] <agmlego> And, unless you can tie the PPS signal into gpsd to feed ntpd, not really that useful a timesource.
  • [20:56:55] <agmlego> The RTC would be used by ntpd natively if you get one with a module already built (or build one yourself).
  • [20:57:05] <aholler> http://ahsoftware.de/usb-rtc/
  • [20:59:34] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2)
  • [21:02:56] <mrpackethead_> mmm
  • [21:05:07] <aholler> kernel 3.9 will have a driver for an hid-usb-rtc
  • [21:07:38] <agmlego> aholler: Is the RTC using USB in a deterministic enough way to allow ntpd to compensate for the jitter?
  • [21:08:39] <alan_o> aholler: So your site makes it sound like you didn't get it into the kernel
  • [21:08:44] <alan_o> what changed?
  • [21:08:55] <alan_o> s/didn't/weren't interested/
  • [21:09:20] <aholler> what I describe there is using i2c-tiny-usb
  • [21:09:49] <aholler> I"ve discovered the hid-sensor-std only aftrwards
  • [21:10:56] <aholler> agmlego: it only offers seconds, not really useful with ntpd
  • [21:11:20] <alan_o> aholler: i2c-tiny-usb.patch is what the people on the mailing list didn't like?
  • [21:11:20] <agmlego> aholler: Ah, fair enough.
  • [21:11:39] <ds2> *yawn*
  • [21:11:56] <alan_o> must be nice to be on the ds2 schedule :)
  • [21:11:56] <ds2> hid-sensor-std?
  • [21:11:57] <aholler> alan_o: yes
  • [21:12:19] <ds2> aholler: you have applications involving that abomination?
  • [21:12:45] <ds2> AZ is damn cold
  • [21:12:49] <aholler> ds2: works for as rtc
  • [21:13:12] <ds2> aholler: ah... not the other stuff then?
  • [21:13:55] <aholler> I"m using the hid-sensor-driver for that
  • [21:14:15] <ds2> I know but the hid-sensor stuff does a lot of other things
  • [21:14:17] <aholler> haven"t tested the other stuff
  • [21:14:36] <ds2> it is on the order of transporting a single backpack in a 20ton dumptruck
  • [21:14:51] <ds2> aholler: is that mainlined now?
  • [21:14:51] <ds2> ;
  • [21:15:10] <aholler> zhe kernel includes drivers for adc, magnometer and some more
  • [21:15:32] <aholler> 3.7 includes hid-sensor
  • [21:15:41] <ds2> oohh I see
  • [21:15:47] <aholler> but the driver only knows usb
  • [21:15:52] <ds2> was backporting that to 2.6.32 a few months ago
  • [21:16:02] <ds2> yes, I am familiar with thestructure
  • [21:16:22] <ds2> the magnometer driver it provides is horrible
  • [21:17:05] <alan_o> aholler: reading through the email threads on lkml now....
  • [21:17:14] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) has joined #beagle
  • [21:17:42] <ds2> and depending on implementation of the USB device, it can trigger a bug in the Linux USB stack
  • [21:18:13] <alan_o> aholler: I guess I'm a bit bothered by the language on your site about how anyone who wants to get code into the kernel should just give up and put a link to a patch on their blog
  • [21:18:22] <mdp> aholler, I like, "timeless universe"
  • [21:18:31] * damir__ (~damir@cpe-212-85-175-204.cable.telemach.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:19:01] <aholler> alan_o: I was bthered
  • [21:19:02] <alan_o> your opening salvo here: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/11/13/622 isn't really the right way to win friends and influence people in the kernel community.
  • [21:19:03] <aholler> too
  • [21:19:59] <aholler> alan_o: I was already greeted before with such an "No, no, no"
  • [21:20:10] <alan_o> I know, I'm reading the thread
  • [21:20:57] <aholler> ended up with tons of kids wanting to tell me how to use git
  • [21:21:40] <alan_o> kernel people aren't always on social protocols designed to keep people from getting offended. When there are technical reasons and strong opinions, they just say it. "no no no" isn't something that you should be offended by on lkml.
  • [21:21:49] <mdp> alan_o, I've got no problem with it...people are constantly wrong on lkml
  • [21:22:10] <crashovrd> kernel devs are not world renowned for their 'people skills'
  • [21:22:22] <ds2> people skills are overrated
  • [21:22:34] <ds2> stable kernels seems to be underappreciated
  • [21:23:03] <mrpackethead_> ds2: not here!!!
  • [21:23:19] <mrpackethead_> if the kernel is not stable, its all downhill
  • [21:23:26] <mranostay> people suck film at 11
  • [21:23:28] <mdp> alan_o, I was offered a suggestion that I just copy a bunch of SG buffers into a linear buffer to solve a problem with the the dmaengine api. now think about that one...imagine linearizing SG buffers using the cpu in order to pass to a dma controller.
  • [21:23:30] <ds2> tell that to everyone else
  • [21:23:44] <emeb> unstable kernels for ski resorts!
  • [21:23:46] * richardw (~richardw@nat/ti/x-rgldxvdukcdcowmj) has joined #beagleboard
  • [21:24:07] <mrpackethead_> so, if i got it right, teh beaglebone has a RTC onboard, but its not battery backed up
  • [21:24:09] <mrpackethead_> is that right?
  • [21:24:09] * richardw (~richardw@nat/ti/x-rgldxvdukcdcowmj) has left #beagleboard
  • [21:24:10] <ds2> emeb: did everyone's thermostat break last week and got stuck on cool? :D
  • [21:24:12] <aholler> alan_o: the page will disappear if I will find the time to change it to hid, so don"t worry.
  • [21:24:27] <emeb> ds2: it was chilly here.
  • [21:24:40] <emeb> now it's warmer than usual
  • [21:25:00] <crashovrd> its global warming. al gore was right. we should have listened
  • [21:25:06] <ds2> emeb: you could've made ice cubes outside last week!
  • [21:25:18] <Russ> I'm confused, what's wrong with instantiating from userspace?
  • [21:25:30] <emeb> ds2: went hiking up in N. Phx and actually found ice on a creek.
  • [21:25:34] <alan_o> mdp: sure, no doubt people are wrong sometimes, but showing up with a patch, getting told "that's not what we do, and we used to do it, and we removed it because of X" doesn't mean that the people who told you that are jerks or difficult to work with or wrong. Sure the one guy didn't read the patch. He didn't have to. He read the description of what it did.
  • [21:25:38] <alan_o> I don't really see a problem.
  • [21:26:05] <ds2> emeb: heh... even south Phx was ice cold
  • [21:26:16] <ds2> only thing colder was flagstaff
  • [21:26:19] <mdp> alan_o, right, same issue..people don't read an knee-jerk
  • [21:26:23] * guanucoluis1 (~luis@190.123.122.242) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [21:26:23] <mdp> s/an/and
  • [21:26:32] <emeb> ds2: you were here?
  • [21:26:42] <crashovrd> do what i do: there is always some young eager dev out there looking to make a name for himself. so i send my kernel patches through them
  • [21:26:44] <alan_o> Alan Cox offered a suggestion, and the response was "waste of time." That's not going to win friends either.
  • [21:26:46] <ds2> emeb: yes
  • [21:26:57] <mdp> alan_o, plus everything has already been done, and there can be no new things. :)
  • [21:27:03] <crashovrd> and thereby 'delegate' the politics and flames
  • [21:27:04] * Cykon (~chatzilla@187-115-114-134.nat.resnet.nau.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [21:27:06] <emeb> ds2: take the LR?
  • [21:27:10] <alan_o> mdp: maybe
  • [21:27:13] <ds2> emeb: yep
  • [21:27:26] <Russ> also 'because pi' usually isn't helpful
  • [21:27:28] <ds2> emeb: nothing remarkable... typical LR
  • [21:27:39] <emeb> ds2: unsurprising is good.
  • [21:27:41] <mdp> alan_o, well, alan cox has a lot of bad ideas...everybody does regardless of how long they've been around ;) .e.g his SFI idea in response to capebus/dtoverlays
  • [21:27:50] <ds2> fork the kernel!!!!! :)
  • [21:28:11] <ds2> emeb: the whole validation scheme was a bit confusing
  • [21:28:17] <alan_o> mdp: Maybe mu luck will run out, but I've not had problems getting stuff in. I also haven't made anything earth shattering. Sometimes people disagree with me, and I try to come up with rational arguments that illustrate my side of it
  • [21:28:25] <emeb> ds2: I've heard that from others too.
  • [21:28:34] <mdp> Russ, if it was "because google uses it" then that would be valid though
  • [21:28:34] <alan_o> mdp: actually, I did have trouble getting something in one time... and that guy was wrong too :)
  • [21:28:44] <ds2> emeb: the lightrail ticket was playing peek-a-boo on the bus
  • [21:28:55] <alan_o> mdp: but I didn't use the words "waste of time" to try to convince him
  • [21:29:22] <koen> mdp: I mentioned SFI to intel engineers and they responded "Oh god no! Not that!!"
  • [21:29:43] <mdp> alan_o, I'm actually in a slightly annoying situation now wrt dma_get_channel_caps(), but it's just part of the game
  • [21:29:44] <_av500_> SFI as in?
  • [21:30:11] <mdp> it's very hard to get a maintainer to grok a piece of h/w that is different in some esoteric way to anything they designed for
  • [21:31:02] <_av500_> why not pass the current time on the kernel command line?
  • [21:31:14] <_av500_> DT=device time
  • [21:31:22] <alan_o> _av500_: have u-boot read the time, pass it in
  • [21:31:22] <mdp> it's hard to believe that DT can't help here
  • [21:31:32] <_av500_> alan_o: yep
  • [21:31:47] <_av500_> I mean, all uboot needs to do is modify the DT to have the current time
  • [21:31:50] <mdp> yeah, this ugly stuff needs to be in the bootloader
  • [21:31:51] <alan_o> see, that's how we keep cruft out of the kernel. Shove it into u-boot :)
  • [21:31:56] <mdp> +1!
  • [21:32:40] <_av500_> we dont even know how long the concpet of time will be in the kernel at all
  • [21:32:48] <_av500_> so why bother
  • [21:33:00] <_av500_> a quantum state kernel does not need it
  • [21:33:16] <mrpackethead_> srry folks, i did'nt mean to start a argument
  • [21:33:19] <mdp> I need one of those
  • [21:33:20] <alan_o> mdp: Maybe I'm all wet on this one, but I guess my point is that maintainers have to be spoken to respectfully if you want them to listen, but you won't always get it in return. Maybe it's not good, but that's just the way it is.
  • [21:33:29] <_av500_> yep
  • [21:33:44] <mdp> alan_o, that's my approach ;)
  • [21:33:46] <aholler> alan_o: sorry, but the whole discussion was about some few stupid lines which would have add a parameter to a module almost no one uses.
  • [21:34:20] <_av500_> i was surprised this druver was in the kernel at all
  • [21:34:22] <_av500_> driver
  • [21:35:03] <mrpackethead_> is it acceptable just to put soething like a DS1307 on the buss ( or its 3.3V equivalent ).. poll it, get the time, and set system tiem from there
  • [21:35:07] <mdp> alan_o, i2c subsystem is like the ARM of the driver subsystems...always been crap
  • [21:35:09] <mrpackethead_> and not do it in the kernal at all?
  • [21:35:11] * Kripton (~kripton-f@staff.kripserver.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [21:35:25] <_av500_> mrpackethead_: aholler argues that it is too late
  • [21:35:41] * Kripton (kripton-fr@staff.kripserver.net) has joined #beagle
  • [21:35:42] <mrpackethead_> _av500_: too late for?
  • [21:35:43] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2)
  • [21:35:47] * XorA remembers the days you couldnt send platform data to i2c
  • [21:35:58] <mdp> XorA: yep
  • [21:36:04] <_av500_> mrpackethead_: well, how do you e.g. do a regular fs check if you dont have the time
  • [21:36:25] <_av500_> dunno
  • [21:36:27] <jsabeaudry> koen (and others who want to reboot bbone from command line): here is something that works here, let me know if it works for you http://pastebin.ca/2305540
  • [21:36:30] <_av500_> well, that user space
  • [21:36:32] <_av500_> bad example
  • [21:36:45] <mrpackethead_> maybe i should keep my beagle constantly powered up
  • [21:37:03] <mrpackethead_> but thats an ugly option
  • [21:37:59] <mrpackethead_> google finds many references to registring TRC's to the kernel
  • [21:38:38] <mdp> XorA: there was the time when they though they could probe smbus/i2c busses safely ;) it was x86 driven and difficult for people to imagine something not like pci
  • [21:38:59] <jsabeaudry> Hard to believe I am not strictly a leech anymore and can contribute something back
  • [21:39:39] <XorA> mdp: yeah I remember when they were only allowed in late boot which screwed pretty much all embedded boards
  • [21:39:46] <jsabeaudry> In my wildest dreams av500 will troll me less because of that
  • [21:39:53] <XorA> mdp: wasnt there like half a billion hack i2c drivers in the tree in those days?
  • [21:39:55] <alan_o> aholler: I know what the discussion was about, and I see where you're coming from and what you were trying to accomplish. the responses were "we don't do it that way; we do it this other way." ultimately the maintainers are responsible for the design and architecture, and if you want to change their minds about it, ultimately the burden is on you to explain why your ideas are superior, not on them to tell you why they think their ideas a
  • [21:39:55] <alan_o> re better. I think it just takes looking at it from the right perspective, and their perspective is the one that counts.
  • [21:40:30] <mdp> XorA: yes, it was pretty awful..blacklists etc. and then ordering issue in conjunction with a complex v4l driver were difficult, at best, to resolve
  • [21:40:30] <aholler> it doesn"t count
  • [21:40:45] <mdp> XorA: I'm going to have to admit that it is better now ;)
  • [21:40:55] <alan_o> aholler: personally, I kind of like the idea of putting that stuff on the command line optionally, but I haven't spent much time thinking about the cons of that.
  • [21:41:08] <XorA> mdp: it is, but I think people get confused and think its a hotplug bus :-(
  • [21:41:08] <_av500_> jsabeaudry: troll you?
  • [21:41:30] <_av500_> i2c lacks plug&play features
  • [21:41:58] <aholler> alan_o: I didn"t have a problem to add that parameter only to i2c-tiny-usb.
  • [21:42:01] <crashovrd> oh! lets write a patch to add plug&play
  • [21:42:03] <alan_o> _av500_: I'm still waiting for pnp on my serial port to be implemented :)
  • [21:42:04] <XorA> _av500_: the standard lacks plugs for a start :-D
  • [21:42:11] <mdp> XorA: funny thing, I was helping debug a u-boot i2c issue and found that it was using an unsafe method to probe as of 6 months ago or so..that's now fixed upstream
  • [21:42:23] <mdp> XorA: so the legacy of this stuff is still around places
  • [21:42:27] <alan_o> aholler: different maintainer?
  • [21:42:40] <_av500_> remember, its only I2C if you paid Philips
  • [21:42:51] <_av500_> otherwise its twowire:)
  • [21:43:20] <mdp> XorA: some guy implemented a probe method where he started a write cycle but terminated it before it was complete...trying to use some omap i2c quirk...bad idea.
  • [21:43:36] * XorA shudders
  • [21:43:42] <aholler> alan_o: with no problem I mean I"ve accepted it not be a param for th whole subsystem
  • [21:43:55] <XorA> i2c is bad enough with chips that are meant to be in HiZ mode answering
  • [21:44:06] <aholler> hmm, connectbot drives me crazy here
  • [21:44:07] <_av500_> aholler: I do get your point
  • [21:44:13] <Russ> aholler, I still don't see the problem with doing it in userspace
  • [21:44:20] <_av500_> aholler: but still I dont think your tone was appropriate
  • [21:44:23] <_av500_> my 2c
  • [21:44:32] <alan_o> mdp: people should be required to test on two architectures before submitting :)
  • [21:44:51] <mdp> XorA: http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/160389/ is where Tom reverted it after our debug session
  • [21:45:05] <mdp> alan_o, well this was specific to omap i2c detect in u-boot
  • [21:45:08] <_av500_> alan_o: you mean on iphone and ipad?
  • [21:45:15] <alan_o> yeah
  • [21:45:16] <mdp> failed completely on a different rev of the IP
  • [21:45:40] <aholler> _av500_: as said, that "No, no, no" has brought up some very bad experiences I"ve made on lkml
  • [21:46:36] * krajo1 (~krajo1@ip4-83-240-125-22.cust.nbox.cz) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  • [21:46:37] <_av500_> aholler: still, keep it professional
  • [21:46:44] <Russ> aholler, being very familiar with the i2c subsystem for a number of years, I'm totally on board with the 'no, no, on'
  • [21:46:50] <Russ> er, no, no, no
  • [21:47:15] <aholler> _av500_: I don"t have too. I"m a human
  • [21:47:16] <crashovrd> he is already having flash backs
  • [21:47:22] <crashovrd> probably should change the subject
  • [21:47:24] <crashovrd> ;)
  • [21:47:58] <thurbad> not totally cool to call someone out and correct them publicly either...
  • [21:48:31] <_av500_> hmm, mdp does DT allow to specify i2c devices on a bus?
  • [21:48:42] <Russ> yes
  • [21:49:17] <Russ> lets not go and embed all the logic of DT into the kernel command line
  • [21:49:18] <Russ> please
  • [21:49:58] <aholler> anyway, I"m now up to the point where I don"t care about patches for the kernel. at least not if nobody pays me to do so.
  • [21:49:59] <_av500_> where do I put my lua interpreter then?
  • [21:50:13] <Russ> _av500_, staging?
  • [21:50:29] <_av500_> the problem with DT is that it is not turing complete
  • [21:51:00] <Russ> I'm aware of a government project that involved turing complete xml
  • [21:51:10] * spacecolonyone (~spacecolo@dhcp242.obs.carnegiescience.edu) Quit (Quit: spacecolonyone)
  • [21:51:16] <_av500_> and therefore we cannot implement sed in DT
  • [21:51:20] <_av500_> and thus no tetris in sed
  • [21:51:40] <_av500_> hmm, /dev/tetris
  • [21:51:55] <alan_o> _av500_: /dev/emacs?
  • [21:51:56] <crashovrd> lua interpreter goes in u-boot of course
  • [21:52:10] <crashovrd> which would be humorous, if it didnt remind me of EFI
  • [21:52:13] <crashovrd> :(
  • [21:52:36] <crashovrd> i forgot that i should not joke about things on irc
  • [21:52:41] <crashovrd> because someone turns them into product
  • [21:53:47] <mdp> _av500_, there's an exception...if you need platform data...only properties that describe _hw_ attributes are permitted in DT...except in limited exception cases such as linux keycodes (a sw attribute)
  • [21:54:45] <_av500_> mdp: is that a yes?
  • [21:54:59] <mdp> it depends
  • [21:55:07] <_av500_> I mean, if I have a hw i2c and an RTC there
  • [21:55:11] <_av500_> that should be in DT, no?
  • [21:55:20] <_av500_> like its in the board file today
  • [21:55:26] <mdp> yes
  • [21:55:30] <_av500_> now, if the i2c is via usb
  • [21:55:34] <_av500_> whta chnages?
  • [21:55:44] <mdp> only the usb host controller is defined
  • [21:56:07] <aholler> you can"t enumerate i2c-buses on usb because you can"t identify them
  • [21:56:12] <_av500_> right
  • [21:56:19] <mdp> not sure how they handle that in DT yet
  • [21:56:23] <_av500_> host controller finds the device
  • [21:56:31] <_av500_> and surprise its i2c
  • [21:56:33] * spacecolonyone (~spacecolo@dhcp242.obs.carnegiescience.edu) has joined #beagle
  • [21:56:34] <mdp> there's tons of DT gaps
  • [21:56:40] * SoCo_cpp_ (~soco@50.44.200.186) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  • [21:56:41] <_av500_> but
  • [21:56:47] <_av500_> in a lot of use cases, usb is all fixed
  • [21:56:53] <_av500_> like a usb touchscreen
  • [21:56:56] <_av500_> or a modem
  • [21:57:08] <aholler> with serials you have the problem too
  • [21:57:12] <_av500_> yes
  • [21:57:16] * SoCo_cpp_ (~soco@50.44.200.186) has joined #beaglebone
  • [21:57:32] <aholler> therefor people always asking here which tty
  • [21:57:42] <alan_o> I think the right way to do it would be to have a non-i2c-tiny interface to the RTC
  • [21:57:57] <alan_o> an actual vid/pid with a protocol and a driver for the RTC
  • [21:58:08] <alan_o> hide all the RTC behind the USB device
  • [21:58:08] <_av500_> alan_o: not the point
  • [21:58:13] <_av500_> imagine you have a usb modem
  • [21:58:18] <_av500_> and that has free gpios
  • [21:58:27] <_av500_> and one of them is something you need early at boot
  • [21:58:40] <_av500_> so you want to bind that gpio to that usb early
  • [21:58:41] <_av500_> and use it
  • [21:58:53] <_av500_> similar use case
  • [21:58:54] <alan_o> yes, that's a hard use case
  • [21:58:55] <alan_o> no doubt
  • [21:59:05] <_av500_> you hw designer says: deal with it
  • [21:59:16] <_av500_> you cant tell him to wire it differently
  • [21:59:32] <alan_o> well, then he is wrong
  • [21:59:37] <alan_o> usb is not a platform bus
  • [21:59:45] <_av500_> little does he care
  • [21:59:48] <_av500_> been there, done that
  • [22:00:01] <_av500_> oh btw, the HW is already there :)
  • [22:00:09] <mdp> let's make this simple and admit that _av500_ is correct, the hw guy always wins
  • [22:00:09] <_av500_> your move
  • [22:00:12] <mdp> and you all know it
  • [22:00:25] <alan_o> yes, management, hardware guys, etc.
  • [22:00:38] <_av500_> we once had wifi and a touchscreen on SPI
  • [22:00:39] <alan_o> There will always be reasons to have to do stuff sub-optimally
  • [22:00:47] <_av500_> tohcing the screen blocked the wifi data
  • [22:00:52] <_av500_> while the chip was measuring
  • [22:01:17] <_av500_> because the chip could not measure and then IRQ
  • [22:01:22] <alan_o> but you have /CSn, what do you mean there's a conflict?
  • [22:01:23] <_av500_> it had to have CE
  • [22:01:33] <_av500_> as I wrote
  • [22:01:38] <_av500_> same spi lines
  • [22:01:46] * alan_o trolling
  • [22:01:53] <alan_o> yes, I know what you mean
  • [22:02:11] * spacecolonyone (~spacecolo@dhcp242.obs.carnegiescience.edu) Quit (Quit: spacecolonyone)
  • [22:02:48] <alan_o> well clearly the touch screen has to have priority over the wifi anyway. every UX ninja knows that.
  • [22:03:41] <_av500_> :)
  • [22:04:10] <woglinde> gn
  • [22:04:22] <_av500_> woglinde: gn
  • [22:04:51] * bradfa (~bradfa@173.225.52.244) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  • [22:05:10] <jsabeaudry> talking of i2c, i2c-3 in 3.2 is i2c-1 in 3.8 ?!
  • [22:05:25] <alan_o> whoa whoa whoa.... more words, less numbers, thanks
  • [22:06:08] <_av500_> arf TI
  • [22:06:14] <_av500_> sample order rejected
  • [22:06:53] <_av500_> telling to order the production device and not the protyoe
  • [22:07:28] <_av500_> now if I knew my pwd...
  • [22:07:30] <ka6sox> av500, which device?
  • [22:07:38] <_av500_> cc30000
  • [22:07:46] <_av500_> that wifi thang
  • [22:07:53] <_av500_> internet of thangs
  • [22:08:02] <_av500_> cc3000
  • [22:08:52] * woglinde (~henning@f052238121.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • [22:09:49] <crashovrd> u guys are still thinking about adding lua to u-boot, arent u
  • [22:09:52] <crashovrd> :P
  • [22:10:01] <_av500_> I want to add lua to something, yes :)
  • [22:10:17] <aholler> I would prefer lua inside the kernel
  • [22:10:20] <_av500_> thouhg in-kernel node-js is tempting too
  • [22:11:19] <aholler> a lua-module would be great
  • [22:11:44] <_av500_> you need the bindings
  • [22:11:51] <_av500_> by itself, what would it do
  • [22:11:54] <aholler> for stuff you always wanted to do without userspace
  • [22:12:02] <_av500_> yes
  • [22:12:03] <aholler> dt is there
  • [22:12:09] <_av500_> not enough
  • [22:12:15] <_av500_> you want networking, no?
  • [22:12:41] <aholler> sure, using the sys-calls would be nice
  • [22:12:51] <aholler> and maybe more
  • [22:13:46] <_av500_> you could write systemd in lua in the kernel
  • [22:14:26] * alexpp (~alc@snf-2833.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr) has joined #beaglebone
  • [22:14:35] * prpplague (~danders@192.91.66.186) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
  • [22:17:17] <ynezz> there's Lua in netbsd
  • [22:18:01] <ynezz> https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/event/lua_in_the_netbsd_kernel/
  • [22:19:46] <aholler> Mabye google will write a mini graphics lib for the kernel, I've just suggested such ;)
  • [22:20:14] <aholler> would be nice to use with lua
  • [22:20:38] <aholler> ;)
  • [22:20:39] * Russ backs away slowly
  • [22:21:58] <mrpackethead_> so, looks like i need to crate "forgotten-cape"
  • [22:22:28] <mrpackethead_> ie, a board of usefulness, things that could have been included on the base, but were forgotten
  • [22:22:31] <mrpackethead_> like a real time clock
  • [22:22:32] <mrpackethead_> :-(
  • [22:22:46] <aholler> Russ: such isn't that absurd. Do you've seen one the new bios with mouse support?
  • [22:23:26] <ynezz> mrpackethead_: I miss geiger counter and 1W FM trasmitter
  • [22:23:48] <Russ> I've seen boot loader gui on-top of linux kernel stuff
  • [22:23:53] <Russ> it then uses kexec to boot
  • [22:24:00] <Russ> all the graphical stuff runs in user-pace
  • [22:24:02] <Russ> er, userspace
  • [22:24:03] <ynezz> just use e-lua
  • [22:24:06] <ynezz> :)
  • [22:24:24] <aholler> Russ: yes, but userspace needs a lot of space
  • [22:24:30] <Russ> no it doesn't
  • [22:24:44] <Russ> stuff in the kernel is not magically smaller
  • [22:24:49] <aholler> depens how you define space
  • [22:25:08] <aholler> it is, you don't a libc
  • [22:25:10] <Russ> userspace can be as simple as int main(void) { while(1); return 0; }
  • [22:26:14] * Guest70803 (~bleh1@87.254.84.104) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  • [22:26:27] <aholler> if you have only 4mb for bootloader + kernel + fonts + pictures, there isn't much space left for userspace
  • [22:27:13] <mrpackethead_> silly question aholler... As my system sits now, it boots up, does an NTP call, sets sytem time and goes on its merry way... How is that any differnet from the system booting up; getting time from an RTC, and setting sytem time.. Both happen quite late in the peace and it seems to work.. I;m just struggling to understand why it has to be done in the kernel.
  • [22:27:15] <ynezz> 4MB? even with web UI
  • [22:27:16] <Russ> putting the same code into the kernel isn't going to make it smaller
  • [22:27:54] <aholler> mrpackethead_: you want the time before you touch the fs
  • [22:28:07] <Russ> aholler, then root=rlo
  • [22:28:09] <Russ> er, root=ro
  • [22:28:16] <Russ> then you can get your time, then remount rw
  • [22:28:24] <Russ> it's not rocket science
  • [22:28:34] <aholler> tell this all those init systems
  • [22:28:43] <Russ> I have
  • [22:29:00] <Russ> if you are in dire straights and hate initrds, and you hate dealing with init systems
  • [22:29:01] <aholler> they are all designed to have the time when the get active
  • [22:29:03] <Russ> init=/linuxrc
  • [22:29:15] <Russ> then in linuxrc you do the stuff you need to do, then exec /sbin/init
  • [22:29:45] <aholler> I now how to do that, but I just don't want to try to explain such world + dog
  • [22:29:54] <aholler> that's impossible
  • [22:30:07] <Russ> and what init systems care about the time before calling rc.boot?
  • [22:30:40] <aholler> none, the rtc is almost always statically linked and the system has the time before userspace
  • [22:31:05] <aholler> thats how pc's are working.
  • [22:31:15] <_av500_> Russ: as said, there might be other use cases
  • [22:31:28] <Russ> _av500_, root on i2c?
  • [22:31:34] <_av500_> root?
  • [22:31:37] <_av500_> :)
  • [22:31:37] <_av500_> yes
  • [22:31:47] <aholler> hid on i2c ;)
  • [22:31:59] <_av500_> as I saimd gpio pins on USB
  • [22:32:02] <aholler> I wonder who want use that
  • [22:32:03] <_av500_> said
  • [22:32:05] <Russ> well hid you can configure from userspace
  • [22:32:09] <_av500_> yes
  • [22:32:30] <aholler> Russ: we can configure most stuff. But normal people not
  • [22:33:06] <aholler> tell someone to fiddle with the init-system to load a module with a parameter before the fs gets fscked and r/w
  • [22:33:20] <Russ> aholler, ok
  • [22:33:22] <Russ> I will
  • [22:33:46] <aholler> and do that for all init-systems around
  • [22:33:54] * jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  • [22:34:20] <aholler> and all that just because someone doesn't want a stupid parameter in a stupid module
  • [22:34:20] <mru> aholler: what do you mean all? there is only systemd
  • [22:34:22] <Russ> I see...and your solution is a universal fix for all non-probable rtc's on all systems then?
  • [22:34:52] <ds2> install a proper RTC.
  • [22:34:58] * _av500_ goes to bed
  • [22:35:08] * _av500_ hopes RTC will wake him up
  • [22:35:10] <Russ> it seems to me the problem is non-probable rtcs and/or systems that don't have time at boot
  • [22:35:19] <Russ> and its a problem that has already been solved
  • [22:35:39] <aholler> write a tutorial for people with bones
  • [22:35:50] * _av500_ is spineless
  • [22:35:58] <Russ> exact steps?
  • [22:36:50] <aholler> I don't care, I've tried to become a dozens stupid lines into a stupid module and was handled like a kid.
  • [22:37:05] <aholler> that's it for me and I enter my bed too
  • [22:37:09] <Russ> because you are special casing a solution for a problem no one has
  • [22:37:25] <mrpackethead_> Russ: i'm very interested in what you are suggesting
  • [22:37:34] <aholler> Russ: like every module parameter out there
  • [22:37:39] <aholler> no one needs them
  • [22:37:44] <Russ> http://learn.adafruit.com/adding-a-real-time-clock-to-raspberry-pi/set-rtc-time
  • [22:38:13] <Russ> aholler, if I extended your argument, we'd have DT within the kernel command line
  • [22:38:14] <aholler> thats a hardwired rtc
  • [22:38:41] <aholler> just do it better
  • [22:38:44] <aholler> n8
  • [22:38:46] <mrpackethead_> Russ, that looks like a very workable solution
  • [22:39:02] <aholler> I did with the hid-usb-rtc ;)
  • [22:39:03] <ds2> if you want time, put in a proper RTC.
  • [22:39:06] <ds2> enough said.
  • [22:39:08] <Russ> mrpackethead_, it just needs in earlier in the boot process for aholler's needs, but that isn't a difficult modification
  • [22:39:32] <mrpackethead_> Russ: i'm booting most of my file system as RO anyway..
  • [22:39:37] <XorA> RTC read in initrd cant be that hard!
  • [22:39:45] <mrpackethead_> so, that it is less likely to get fried..
  • [22:39:59] <Russ> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Initscripts
  • [22:40:04] <mrpackethead_> there will just be some space so some user-files can get written to
  • [22:40:09] <mrpackethead_> and then we probalby can make that ro as well.
  • [22:41:10] <aholler> Russ: see, the point is that mrpackethead_ had to ask how to do such.
  • [22:41:12] <Russ> mrpackethead_, with sysvinit, /etc/rc.sysinit is early enough
  • [22:41:26] <aholler> and it's not only he who needs to ask such
  • [22:41:32] <Russ> mrpackethead_, if you are using sysvinit, take a look at your /etc/rc.sysinit
  • [22:41:42] <_av500_> Russ: sudo nano /etc/rc.local
  • [22:41:47] <_av500_> where is that in systemd?
  • [22:41:49] <_av500_> :)
  • [22:41:59] <Russ> rc.local is too late
  • [22:42:29] <_av500_> tool ate indeed, must sleep
  • [22:42:32] <_av500_> :)
  • [22:42:34] <_av500_> too late
  • [22:42:34] <mrpackethead_> its all commented out;
  • [22:42:37] <ds2> why do you need the time that early on?
  • [22:42:39] <mrpackethead_> last line says it all
  • [22:42:45] <mrpackethead_> # By default this script does nothing.
  • [22:42:48] <Russ> ds2, you want sane time before you fsck
  • [22:43:01] <ds2> Russ: use a journaling FS
  • [22:43:22] <Russ> mrpackethead_, is that rc.sysinit or rc.local
  • [22:43:34] <mrpackethead_> rc.local
  • [22:43:43] <Russ> mrpackethead_, look at rc.sysinit
  • [22:43:54] <aholler> gentoo doesn't have them ;)
  • [22:43:59] <aholler> you have to extend your list
  • [22:44:07] <mrpackethead_> nor does debian
  • [22:44:11] <Russ> might be /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit
  • [22:44:13] <_av500_> nor Lacie
  • [22:44:41] <_av500_> put it in the MBR
  • [22:44:45] <_av500_> :)
  • [22:45:08] <jsabeaudry> Anything special to do when switching to DT regarding interrupts? Somehow the interrupt used in my module do not seem to work anymore
  • [22:45:19] <mrpackethead_> serached for it
  • [22:45:22] <mrpackethead_> it doesnt exisit
  • [22:45:22] <aholler> the only thing all distros have in common is a kernel ;)
  • [22:45:45] <Russ> mrpackethead_, then anything before /etc/rcS.d/S05hwclock.sh is probably ok
  • [22:45:46] <jsabeaudry> The irq gets registered fine but somehow never gets called
  • [22:46:23] <Russ> S05hwclock.sh comes before S06checkroot.sh
  • [22:46:54] <ds2> is there a reason you need to use a FS that require fscking?
  • [22:47:23] <Russ> ds2, even for a journalled fs, its still good to fsck after a powerloss
  • [22:47:34] <Russ> especially if you are only journalling metadata
  • [22:47:39] * NishanthMenon (~nmenon@192.94.92.14) Quit (Quit: Courage is my greatest present need.)
  • [22:47:54] <mru> well, xfs doesn't even have an fsck tool
  • [22:48:14] <Russ> mru always has an answer!
  • [22:48:18] <ds2> Russ: if that is indeed the case, then where is the yaffs2 or jffs2 fsck ?
  • [22:48:33] <Russ> ds2, ok, I suppose I only mean ext4
  • [22:48:42] <mru> not that I'd recommend using xfs where there's a high risk of power loss
  • [22:49:03] <ds2> so use a proper FS
  • [22:49:07] <aholler> does btrfs now has a fsck?
  • [22:49:12] <ds2> not modify the kernel to solve a problem that has been solved elsewhere
  • [22:50:04] <Russ> ...or just make an /etc/rcS.d/S04rtc.sh
  • [22:51:03] <ds2> look at the case where people get time out of NTP
  • [22:51:17] <mru> numbered scripts are so primitive
  • [22:51:35] <ds2> userland is so primative
  • [22:51:41] <Russ> mru, I know, lead us into systemd pastures, will you?
  • [22:52:05] <mru> there are other options, you know
  • [22:52:25] <Russ> brimfire and upstart?
  • [22:52:32] <mru> and openrc
  • [22:52:54] <ds2> whatever happened to the days of simpleinit
  • [22:53:01] <mru> and in some cases, nothing at all is the most appropriate
  • [22:54:29] <aholler> http://ahsoftware.de/dockstar/#gentoopatches
  • [22:54:50] <aholler> is what I had to fiddle on gentoo some years ago
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  • [22:55:19] <mru> gentoo uses openrc since some time
  • [22:55:20] <aholler> without there was the possiblity that it asked for a key press when a fsck was scheduled and the time was wrong
  • [22:55:22] <Russ> you like to do things the hard way
  • [22:55:29] <aholler> s/there/that/
  • [22:55:45] <Russ> you could have a) changed the default fsck options
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  • [22:56:07] <Russ> b) inserted your own rc.S script
  • [22:56:53] <aholler> Russ: that just explains that you don't know the system and so you would be unable to write a tutorial usable by everyone
  • [22:57:44] <aholler> gentoo has had hardcoded the stuff in early init
  • [22:57:57] <mru> not any more
  • [22:58:16] <Russ> I like your you problem with suggested solutions are always 'not general enough'
  • [22:58:33] <Russ> when your solution is very specific in itself
  • [22:58:35] <aholler> You nailed me down on trhat
  • [22:58:58] <aholler> I've suggest a simple solution with a around a dozen line for a stupid module
  • [22:59:02] <Russ> I'm sorry that gentoo has a broken init system
  • [22:59:11] <mru> but it doesn't!
  • [22:59:13] <Russ> does that mean we need a kernel patch?
  • [22:59:16] <aholler> Russ: do it better
  • [22:59:17] * jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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  • [22:59:20] <crashovrd> why not just make faux driver that does what ever is needed to set the clock?
  • [22:59:28] <Russ> aholler, /etc/rcS.d/S04rtc.sh
  • [22:59:29] <Russ> done
  • [22:59:43] <aholler> always complaining doesn't help, at least I had a solution for the gentoo system at that time
  • [23:00:04] <Russ> or just add -y to your fsck options
  • [23:00:25] <aholler> do it so
  • [23:01:07] <Russ> right, I'll get right on solving everyone's individual little problem with a patch to a different module with a different set of kernel command line options
  • [23:01:38] <mrpackethead_> Russ, is my logic bad here.. My system currnetly survives unscheduled powerdowns.. you start it up, it gets time via ntp, and things start up with the right time again.
  • [23:01:40] <aholler> yes, you are trained by ti
  • [23:01:45] <aholler> no faults there
  • [23:01:48] <aholler> sorry,
  • [23:02:04] <mrpackethead_> so if i can just swap ntp, for getting time from the RTC, its probalby going to work
  • [23:02:06] <mrpackethead_> ?
  • [23:02:16] <Russ> mrpackethead_, its one of those things that if you are running hundreds or thousands of systems, it might matter
  • [23:02:47] <mrpackethead_> hundreds or thousands of systems that need to talk to each other?
  • [23:02:55] <mrpackethead_> or just hundreds or thousands of systems in generall
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  • [23:03:20] <Russ> no, I mean if you have thousands of systems that lose power at random times, you are likely to eventually have a problem that needs correction with fsck
  • [23:03:31] <Russ> or at least fsck could tell you that the system isn't going to boot all the way
  • [23:03:55] <mrpackethead_> worst case then is that we can swap the SDcard out to a new one
  • [23:04:01] <ds2> use a more robust fs
  • [23:04:05] <ds2> fsck is not an answer
  • [23:04:08] <aholler> just wrong. fsck is scheduled every n days when you use extN
  • [23:04:15] <aholler> so you hit another trap
  • [23:04:16] <Russ> ds2, can't always control the reaction of the sd card to a power cut
  • [23:04:31] <Russ> aholler, do you even know what schedules that fsck?
  • [23:04:32] <mrpackethead_> we will always have a copy of the system, ready..
  • [23:04:36] <Russ> aholler, or where it's configured
  • [23:04:41] <aholler> Russ: no, I'm dumb
  • [23:04:45] <ds2> Russ: use a FS that is indifferent to that or use a media that you can control
  • [23:04:48] <aholler> And never used linux
  • [23:05:16] <aholler> and want to modifiy a dozens startup scripts to get the time and avoid fsck and ...
  • [23:05:28] <Russ> aholler, just one startup script
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  • [23:05:59] <ds2> or a better way is to rework your startup sequence
  • [23:06:28] <Russ> ds2, no, a kernel patch is the only way
  • [23:06:32] <Russ> its always the only way
  • [23:06:33] <ds2> :)
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  • [23:07:45] <crashovrd> well, i guess we should start forking the kernel now
  • [23:08:03] <crashovrd> its the only way
  • [23:08:05] <crashovrd> :)
  • [23:08:22] <Russ> how could I possibly configured boot time fsck
  • [23:08:23] <Russ> https://93fd9190-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/sophieinnorthkorea/home/cartoon.4.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cpeK3KkptHyVDBc3nSHp7o2BuPVtUoENIRIovEWlBJZN4-OAqwp_64O6LI71jxR8KORXKNzRG4YwC0QHed8AT8xYAldjrNzTrRrFE1WMcriIeawXYk6jzA8xPSyZOkZnoQSwiHaJMZXCX4OByoz8fC_xTgdwE5HtaFH_QfzezjzZPOnn_EFnQlprqUZzcxnQEh3xkvKuJzZX1TsaVAbcw3Sote4MR8hke7xGKQJN6xG4Qn1iVQ%3D&attredirects=0
  • [23:08:32] <Russ> if only there was some way of looking that up
  • [23:08:39] <Russ> (sorry for the extremely long url)
  • [23:08:54] <ds2> the web is a WORN media - Write One, Read Never.
  • [23:09:52] <mrpackethead_> Russ, that adafruit board, looks like a sensible thing
  • [23:10:36] <Russ> its a solution that works, but it really should go before S05hwclock.sh
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  • [23:19:23] <aholler> Russ: you should write a simple and clear tutorial for beaglebone users so that no questions are left. Should be easy for you to do.
  • [23:19:51] <Russ> aholler, yes, it's called read some documentation
  • [23:20:05] <Russ> init systems are currently very fragmented
  • [23:20:37] <Russ> I remember back when shells were very fragmented
  • [23:21:51] <aholler> funny I thought everyone used sh back in the old days
  • [23:22:48] <aholler> and just now people are starting to use dash, bash, sh, ash, zsh, ???
  • [23:22:53] <ds2> sh????
  • [23:22:57] <ds2> tcsh!!
  • [23:23:23] <mrpackethead_> aholler: people like you and Russ, are better left to doing constructive stuff
  • [23:23:32] <Russ> bash didn't have an initial release until '89
  • [23:23:57] <mrpackethead_> mere mortals like me are better at writing docs for us normal folks, who are just users.
  • [23:25:07] <crashovrd> the OS design is actually older than most who use it
  • [23:25:24] <crashovrd> it actually old enough to be the dad of some!
  • [23:26:08] <aholler> dos didn't know about shells, it just had command.com ;)
  • [23:26:24] <aholler> and nc
  • [23:26:31] <XorA> mv doom.exe command.com
  • [23:26:33] <Russ> the '90s were a crazy time, with lots of different shells running everywhere
  • [23:26:33] <XorA> sorted
  • [23:27:07] <aholler> still the same
  • [23:27:44] <aholler> try to use echo -n or -e on a default debian
  • [23:30:23] <Crofton|work> rofl, I renamed vax game to edt back in the day
  • [23:30:23] <ds2> dos has shells
  • [23:30:27] <ds2> 4dos for example
  • [23:31:03] <aholler> that was very late
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  • [23:32:06] <Russ> aholler, and the sad thing is true of init systems, you can give someone general instructions, but they have to understand or read about their own init
  • [23:32:24] <Russ> exact steps require exact knowledge of ones configuration
  • [23:32:44] <aholler> or a simple kernel parameter
  • [23:32:52] <aholler> s/kernel/module/
  • [23:33:59] <Russ> aholler, but I have a different i2c module, your patch doesn't work
  • [23:34:10] <aholler> it did
  • [23:34:29] * modmaker (~ncbas@63-11.bbned.dsl.internl.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  • [23:34:32] <Russ> my i2c clock is bitbanged via gpio, not usb-tiny-i2c
  • [23:34:44] <aholler> the first patch has had documentation how to add it to your module
  • [23:35:00] <Russ> and also, if your probe address 0x28 (the address of my rtc) on i2c-4, it'll reboot my board
  • [23:35:08] <aholler> rejected with "No, no, no"
  • [23:35:27] <Russ> oh, wait, I forgot, my rtc is connected via 1wire
  • [23:35:33] <Russ> can your patch help me?
  • [23:35:51] <aholler> yes, it brings peace and love to everyone
  • [23:37:49] <aholler> like all those documented parameters in Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt, not speak about all the undocumented ones
  • [23:38:05] <ds2> they are all documented
  • [23:38:10] <aholler> no
  • [23:38:12] * mhaberler (~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at) Quit (Quit: mhaberler)
  • [23:38:21] <Russ> name one that isn't documented
  • [23:38:22] <aholler> for luke, maybe
  • [23:38:29] <Russ> exactly, use the source
  • [23:38:37] <aholler> look at tiny-i2c ;)
  • [23:39:09] <aholler> everyone should be able to read source
  • [23:39:13] <Russ> I did, your patch rightly deserves a 'no, no, no'
  • [23:39:14] <aholler> and english manuals
  • [23:39:26] <Russ> I'm sorry that offends your sensibilities
  • [23:39:50] <aholler> I don't care
  • [23:39:54] <aholler> anymore
  • [23:40:25] <Russ> ok :)
  • [23:40:31] * damir__ (~damir@cpe-212-85-175-204.cable.telemach.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  • [23:40:53] <aholler> I'll just forward questions to manufacturers ;)
  • [23:41:41] <Russ> or you know, develop a boot time script for probing rtc devices, and submit that patch
  • [23:42:08] <aholler> yeah, for dozens of distros
  • [23:42:10] <Russ> let people muck with a /etc/default/rtc-hw or some such
  • [23:42:20] <Russ> such is life
  • [23:42:26] <aholler> your life, maybe
  • [23:42:33] <aholler> I just write a simple patch
  • [23:42:56] <aholler> and avoid usb on some devices
  • [23:43:04] <Russ> you'll find it very difficult to make kernel developers believe it is the kernel's job to work around init system fragmentation
  • [23:43:20] <aholler> yes,they don't care about users
  • [23:43:35] <aholler> I've learned, you don't have to say such twice
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  • [23:43:42] <Russ> clearly, or else they would have put emacs in the kernel already
  • [23:43:55] <Russ> and merged systemd into the kernel sources too
  • [23:45:27] <ds2> or just use the init in the kernel already
  • [23:46:05] <Russ> distributions are hard, lets go shopping!
  • [23:52:34] <aholler> yea, buy a working otg ip
  • [23:53:00] <aholler> "no, no, no"
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  • [23:53:30] <Russ> I suppose it was the third no that really did it