• [00:08:42] * Crofton finished mowing
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  • [00:20:18] <Crofton> up to 78 views of the picture of the USRP attached to a beagle
  • [00:20:38] <Crofton> one guy said he didn't see that it was attached :)
  • [00:28:47] <prpplague> Crofton url?
  • [00:29:38] <Crofton> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32615155@N00/2439256116/
  • [00:32:26] <prpplague> nice
  • [00:32:35] <Crofton> yeah
  • [00:32:39] <Crofton> doesn't work :)
  • [00:32:51] <Crofton> but, I'll fight that next week :)
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  • [06:58:54] * jkridner is headed to sleep
  • [06:59:04] <jkridner> good night khasim.
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  • [13:15:35] * jkridne1 (n=a0321898@nat/ti/x-a49b8780e08f10bc) has joined #beagle
  • [13:15:49] * jkridne1 is now known as jkridner|work
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  • [14:07:14] * sakoman_ (n=sakoman@38.99.84.33) has joined #beagle
  • [14:08:27] <sakoman_> koen: did you ever get your boot issue resolved?
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  • [14:19:38] * dirk2 (n=dirk@F33c5.f.strato-dslnet.de) has joined #beagle
  • [14:28:47] <koen> sakoman_: sort of
  • [14:28:55] <koen> dirk can boot, but still with an error
  • [14:29:07] <koen> but I'm away from home atm
  • [14:30:00] <sakoman_> me too :-) Will get back later this evening, hopefully to a beagleboard on my doorstep
  • [14:30:21] <koen> :)
  • [14:31:21] <sakoman_> What was the issue?
  • [14:31:34] * DarrenEtheridge (n=a0867391@nat/ti/x-5ac08f044c79ad35) has left #beagle
  • [14:31:39] <koen> some problem with presumably the twl
  • [14:32:04] <koen> sakoman_: http://marc.info/?l=linux-omap&m=120912073530106&w=2
  • [14:34:31] <sakoman_> Hmmm . . . his output looks like mine now
  • [14:34:55] <sakoman_> I've been meaning to look for the source of those i2c twl messages
  • [14:35:24] <sakoman_> I seem to recall seeing them on the 2.6.22 kernel that ships with the evm so perhaps they are normal
  • [14:35:38] <sakoman_> Or perhaps the evm sw has the same issue :-)
  • [15:00:03] <koen> jkridner|work: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnuradio/2008-04/msg00263.html
  • [15:01:33] <jkridner> looks to be confusion to me.
  • [15:04:18] <jkridner|work> oh, I stared looking for the message on linux-omap@vger to try to respond. didn't realize this was on another list.
  • [15:04:45] <jkridner|work> responder doesn't seem to understand that you are on OMAP3, rather than an OMAP5912.
  • [15:06:13] <jkridner|work> without being on the mailing list, I don't know how to respond in-thread.
  • [15:06:54] <jkridner|work> ah, it looks like Brian already made the correction.
  • [15:08:35] <jkridner|work> NEON is a big step, but the thread still seems to be missing the potential of the open C64x+ DSP on the device.
  • [15:13:46] * khasim (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) has joined #beagle
  • [15:13:52] <jkridner> hi khasim
  • [15:16:01] <dirk2> jkridner & prpplague: Any news from OpenOCD discussion yesterday? I read Nishanth' blog http://nishanthmenon.blogspot.com/2008/04/odyssey-of-jtag-less-debug.html and it seems that JTAG is really helpful for this sort of stuff ;)
  • [15:16:23] <prpplague> dirk2: indeed jtag is your friend
  • [15:16:24] <jkridner> dirk2: JTAG can be very helpful.
  • [15:17:00] <prpplague> dirk2: the core support for the coresight jtag on the cortex is present in openocd albeit it is geared towards the M3 currently
  • [15:17:48] <dirk2> Already any idea what has to be done vor A8?
  • [15:17:54] <prpplague> dirk2: i suspect that with only a change in cpuid, the M3 code would work with the A8
  • [15:18:07] <prpplague> dirk2: the major portions as i see it are for the MMU and cache support
  • [15:18:25] <prpplague> dirk2: as well as some include files for A8 ids and such
  • [15:18:29] * bazbell (n=bazbell@nat/ti/x-0696c1df0dfdb7a7) has joined #beagle
  • [15:18:59] <dirk2> Any pointer to the M3 OpenOCD code? It is a patch and not in mainline yet, right?
  • [15:20:40] * sakoman_ (n=sakoman@38.99.84.33) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  • [15:21:09] <prpplague> dirk2: its mainline
  • [15:22:56] <prpplague> dirk2: i'm willing to bet that if you change the M3 cpuid to that of an A8, it will probably come up with basic support
  • [15:24:29] <dirk2> Next step would then to get the OMAP3 scan chain, right?
  • [15:24:52] <prpplague> yea
  • [15:25:18] <jkridner> do you just mean the bypass vs. the cortex-a8?
  • [15:26:24] <prpplague> yea
  • [15:26:38] <prpplague> jkridner: is there a bsdl file posted for the OMAP3?
  • [15:27:12] <prpplague> we can do most of the OCD stuff without the bsdl
  • [15:27:17] <prpplague> but it would be nice
  • [15:27:30] <jkridner|work> checking.
  • [15:28:13] * khasi1 (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) has joined #beagle
  • [15:28:15] <jkridner> btw, I don't think that BSDL would help you that much would it?
  • [15:29:06] <prpplague> jkridner: not for the OCD portion
  • [15:29:09] <jkridner|work> it is just the boundary portion. the CCS config contains the CPU scan lengths.
  • [15:29:11] <prpplague> jkridner: but its nice to have
  • [15:29:16] <jkridner|work> k. sure.
  • [15:29:22] <jkridner|work> just making sure I understood.
  • [15:29:26] <prpplague> yea
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  • [15:43:07] <dirk2> OpenOCD conclusion: Take OpenOCD from mainline, change M3 cpuid to A8 (somewhere in ARM manuals?), take CPU scan lengths from CCS config, connect Flyswatter and see what happens.
  • [15:43:43] <prpplague> dirk2: yep pretty much
  • [15:43:56] <prpplague> dirk2: you can go with the current mainline, set it up as a M3
  • [15:44:22] <prpplague> dirk2: as it begins to connect it will say something like "expect cpuid of xxxxxx but got yyyyyy"
  • [15:45:27] * khasi1 (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [15:46:11] <dirk2> Sounds like I should order a Flyswatter or any other OpenOCD tool ;)
  • [15:48:55] <dirk2> "expect cpuid of xxxxxx but got yyyyyy": Have to scan the IRC log. I think to remember that jkridner sent the output from his Flyswatter tests...
  • [15:49:24] <dirk2> Btw: is there any search option for the IRC logs?
  • [15:51:48] <prpplague> i don't know where #beagle is logged
  • [15:51:59] <jkridner> http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs
  • [15:52:37] <jkridner> no search option today. not sure what the license restrictions are for making a Google custom search.
  • [15:52:59] <jkridner> I really need to add the filtering they have on microformats.org.
  • [15:54:19] <jkridner> http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats/IRC/ has some simple javascript for filtering.
  • [15:54:24] <jkridner> still needs a search.
  • [15:54:45] <jkridner> I believe using Google is easiest.
  • [15:55:14] <ali_as_> No result for cpuid site:beagleboard.org
  • [15:56:18] <NishanthMenon> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=prpplague+site%3Abeagleboard.org
  • [15:56:46] * prpplague looks
  • [15:56:49] <NishanthMenon> ;)
  • [15:57:09] * NishanthMenon going to back to meeting after distraction :D
  • [15:57:37] <ali_as_> Only 15 results. Maybe google isn't indexing them all.
  • [15:59:49] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-2610b6d3c23fcb7f) has joined #beagle
  • [16:01:14] <dirk2> Found: http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2008-04-08#T17:42:26
  • [16:01:50] <dirk2> Nothing about cpuid though
  • [16:03:56] <ali_as_> Well, you'll know it hen you have an interface, so can alter the code then.
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  • [16:34:21] <jkridner|work> k, I added the script to make the logs a bit more human readable and navigation between days. (you can turn off the enters/exits with the cookie.)
  • [17:00:21] * khasim (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) has joined #beagle
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  • [17:40:10] <ldesnogu> hello
  • [17:43:24] <jkridner|work> hello ldesnogu. hopefully your C64x+ programming is going ahead fine.
  • [17:43:50] <ldesnogu> hum I don't really do C64x+ programming yet :)
  • [17:44:14] <ldesnogu> first I write a disassembler then the cycle accurate simulator and then I will start playing ;)
  • [17:44:20] <jkridner|work> RogerMonk, have you tried Koen's OE build for Beagle?
  • [17:44:49] <ldesnogu> jkridner|work: is the release of Linux c6x tools still in the work?
  • [17:44:58] <jkridner|work> yes
  • [17:45:44] <RogerMonk> Nope - what's the best place for me to start - I'd like to give it a go with OE
  • [17:45:45] <ldesnogu> did you what I wrote on gp2x board regarding the linux cgt 5.0 available on TI FTP site?
  • [17:46:03] <ldesnogu> I think TI should clean their FTP...
  • [17:49:35] * khasim (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [17:51:42] <RogerMonk> Jason - where should I grab it from? - can you (or koen) post me a link?
  • [17:51:47] <RogerMonk> pls
  • [17:59:28] <Crofton> http://amethyst.openembedded.net/~koen/index.php?path=beagleboard/
  • [17:59:36] <Crofton> not sure if the kernels work
  • [18:00:19] <Crofton> jkridner, what's the story on DSP programming tools
  • [18:00:35] <Crofton> some guy in #gnuradio heard CCS was going away?
  • [18:03:00] <ldesnogu> they can't let all of CCS go away, at least not the codegen tools part...
  • [18:03:32] <Crofton> jkridner, I "trolled" the gnu radio list with a photo of the beagle connected to a USPR
  • [18:03:34] <Crofton> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnuradio/2008-04/threads.html
  • [18:04:02] <Crofton> I got a couple of interesting responses
  • [18:04:44] <Crofton> the one from Jeff Brower was amsuing
  • [18:07:54] <Crofton> ldesnogu, it sounded like an odd story to me
  • [18:08:20] <Crofton> I am very interested in anything that makes the DSP more accessible to the "amateur" crowd
  • [18:08:57] <ldesnogu> well if they give up on CCS and open source the codegen tools I could not be happier, but as you I don't think TI will drop CCS
  • [18:09:12] <Crofton> did you read this email
  • [18:09:20] <Crofton> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnuradio/2008-04/msg00266.html
  • [18:10:25] <ldesnogu> there are so many wrong things in that thread, that's crazy
  • [18:11:27] <ldesnogu> it looks people are unable to track ARM architecture, I guess it's the price to pay for being so secretive :(
  • [18:11:33] * altex4 (n=x0084519@nat/ti/x-ca4e402b8a2b88f8) has joined #beagle
  • [18:12:27] <Crofton> I find the product line confusing
  • [18:12:38] <Crofton> but I think they sorted themselves out fairly quickly
  • [18:13:33] <Crofton> it will be interesting to see if anyone develops a really cool sdr app
  • [18:13:53] <ldesnogu> using c64+ or NEON? :)
  • [18:14:01] <Crofton> put the right hw in people's hands at a price they can afford
  • [18:14:07] <Crofton> yeah
  • [18:14:09] <Crofton> exactly
  • [18:14:17] <Crofton> hw + tools .....
  • [18:14:17] <ldesnogu> I don't know anything about SDR but my understanding was that dedicated HW is the way to go
  • [18:14:43] <Crofton> lots of people sell boards with FPGA + DSP +GPP
  • [18:14:56] <Crofton> USRP provides FPGA
  • [18:17:19] <RogerMonk> Crofton, thanks for the link
  • [18:17:58] <RogerMonk> CCS isn't going away - some of it is being reworked, but not going away
  • [18:18:26] <Crofton> any thoughts on how to improve accessibility to the "amateur" crowd
  • [18:18:43] <Crofton> I use the word amateur in the sense of people that do things for love
  • [18:18:52] <Crofton> or something like that :)
  • [18:19:13] <Crofton> the latin root for amateur is the word for love
  • [18:19:16] <Crofton> I think
  • [18:21:08] <RogerMonk> I hear you....
  • [18:22:52] <Crofton> lots of people are listening
  • [18:24:33] <jkridner|work> altex4: how is your summary of Beagle news from the IRC logs going?
  • [18:24:56] <ldesnogu> Crofton: jkridner|work told the process of getting free (for open source) tools for c64x+ is ongoing
  • [18:26:18] <jkridner|work> prpplague: http://focus.ti.com/dsp/docs/dspsupporttechdocs.tsp?sectionId=3&tabId=409&familyId=1526&documentCategoryId=4&techDoc=4
  • [18:26:33] * prpplague looks
  • [18:26:51] * prpplague bookmarks
  • [18:27:53] <Crofton> ah jtag definitions?
  • [18:30:00] * likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) Quit ()
  • [18:39:20] <jkridner|work> boundary scan definition. For board tests, not necessarily debuggers.
  • [18:39:35] <jkridner|work> altex4: ping
  • [18:41:16] <altex4> hey jason, the logs are coming along, i'm just trying to differentiate the beagle-related discussion from the wild tangents that tend to happen in chat-style discussions
  • [18:41:26] <jkridner|work> :)
  • [18:41:44] <jkridner|work> I was hopeful that the folks here could help summarize the events of the week.
  • [18:42:28] <jkridner|work> for others, I'm trying to get altex4 to start doing some write-ups the next couple of weeks on http://beagleboard.blogspot.com to summarize the discussion activity going on here.
  • [18:42:42] * Crofton traveled to New Jersey to retrieve wife and visit sister in law in hospital
  • [18:43:15] <Crofton> gotta run, next week should be better
  • [18:43:35] * Crofton (n=balister@ool-44c5cb00.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  • [18:44:01] <jkridner|work> this area seems to be the most active discussion on Beagle and I wanted to let the people who read the RSS feed in on some our activity and get some concentration on the issues being faced and information being shared.
  • [18:45:09] <jkridner|work> ldesnogu: I haven't seen what you've written about the "linux cgt 5.0 available on TI ftp site"
  • [18:45:13] <jkridner|work> what did you write?
  • [18:45:42] <ldesnogu> http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?s=&showtopic=40888&view=findpost&p=597855
  • [18:45:58] <jkridner|work> ldesnogu: what is it you believe is so secretive?
  • [18:46:29] <ldesnogu> regarding ARM? The way the architecture manual is (or rather is not...) available
  • [18:46:36] <ldesnogu> also no chip errata
  • [18:47:37] <ldesnogu> jkridner|work: if you consider the link should be removed, I will gladly update my post, and also the Pandora WIKI
  • [18:47:44] <jkridner|work> for which device? The one being dicsused on this channel is http://www.ti.com/omap35x
  • [18:49:58] <ldesnogu> well where is ARMv7 ARM ARM ? :)
  • [18:50:03] <ldesnogu> with no restriction
  • [18:52:03] <jkridner|work> ARMv7 is an instruction set provided by ARM. We haven't done any crazy proprietary extensions to the ARM. It is ARM ARM.
  • [18:52:47] <jkridner|work> wow. just checked that FTP link. good find. don't know why it is there.
  • [18:53:11] <jkridner|work> I was expecting it to be the C54x compiler, but it is the C64x compiler.
  • [18:53:27] <ldesnogu> I mean the ARM ARM is not easily available and it's a pain for those who would like to use NEON for instance
  • [18:54:00] <jkridner|work> I don't know what you mean. It is very easy to use the ARM.
  • [18:54:06] * khasi1 (n=a0393720@192.163.20.231) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [18:55:33] <jkridner|work> I'm also confused by "ARM ARM". Are you talking about an ARM besides the Cortex-A8?
  • [18:56:37] <ldesnogu> oops sorry, its the name of the architecture manual
  • [18:58:02] <ldesnogu> basically NEON (which is in Cortex-A8) is ARM SIMD extension, and no documentation for these instructions is readily available
  • [18:58:53] <ldesnogu> imagine removing spru732 from TI site for instance :)
  • [18:59:01] <jkridner|work> Silicon errata is second item down: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3503.html
  • [18:59:23] <ldesnogu> yes but Cortex-A8 errata are not in there
  • [19:00:31] <BThompson> interesting link, im not sure why that ftp exists, currently the CGT set is only available to customers who buy the DVSPB or CCS
  • [19:01:20] <ldesnogu> BThompson: an interesting thing in that Linux cgt on the FTP is that it lacks part of the toolchain
  • [19:01:25] <ldesnogu> the code compressor
  • [19:01:43] <ldesnogu> I wonder if it was not put there for some customer and then forgotten
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  • [19:03:41] <BThompson> could have been
  • [19:05:12] <BThompson> there is talk of making them more available, or at least offering some option to get them outside of CCS or DVSPB which are fairly expensive if all you need is the C64x+ compiler
  • [19:05:29] <BThompson> but you never know what will really happen, thats all out of my hands :)
  • [19:05:55] <ldesnogu> do you mean there could be some low price cgt only release for non free projects?
  • [19:06:35] <BThompson> id like to see at least a compiler only release for sale, dont know how low cost
  • [19:07:23] <ldesnogu> I agree it would make sense and would probably consider buying it, but I would certainly not pay the CCS price :)
  • [19:08:19] <ds2> looks like there is no java accelerator on there
  • [19:08:34] <ldesnogu> On Cortex-A8 ?
  • [19:08:50] <BThompson> exactly, with the advent of Davinci and OMAP processors where the focus of the programming is on the ARM and Linux there is much more reason to need a compiler only package
  • [19:09:03] <ldesnogu> C-A8 has no full Jazelle, only Jazelle RCT
  • [19:09:16] <BThompson> in the old days when you really only did DSP side development the CGT set wouldnt do you much good without CCS
  • [19:09:19] <ldesnogu> BThompson: could not agree more!
  • [19:10:00] <jkridner|work> Jazelle-RCT is meant to be more flexible for JIT.
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  • [19:11:41] <ds2> thought RCT is a superset of DBX?
  • [19:11:44] <jkridner|work> ds2: Do you have interest in Java acceleration via RCT?
  • [19:12:09] <ds2> jkridner|work: no, just DBX
  • [19:13:31] <jkridner|work> no, I believe it is different.
  • [19:13:48] <jkridner|work> http://www.arm.com/products/esd/jazelle_architecture.html
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  • [19:14:21] <jkridner|work> I believe OMAP35x does not have DBX, only RCT (which is meant to give better performance).
  • [19:15:45] <ds2> interesting, I read that page and came away with the assumption that RCT is a superset
  • [19:15:58] <ds2> but on re-reading it, that isn't necessarily the case
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  • [19:18:05] <ds2> cool, this solves an odd mystery with /proc/cpuinfo ;)
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  • [19:30:49] <ldesnogu|dinner> Cortex-A8 only has Jazelle RCT for sure
  • [19:32:58] <ldesnogu|dinner> This is mentioned in Section 2.4 of Cortex-A8 TRM available here: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0344b/CHDICIAJ.html
  • [19:33:23] <ds2> thanks
  • [19:33:53] <ds2> the part that threw me off was thinking RCT is a superset of DBX
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  • [19:38:29] <ldesnogu|dinner> it's documented in the infamous ARM ARM documentation I talked about above :(
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  • [19:39:10] <ldesnogu> ds2: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/JazelleRCTWhitePaper_final1-0_.pdf
  • [19:39:21] <ldesnogu> and http://www.arm.com/pdfs/JazelleDBX_WhitePaper_2007v1p1.pdf
  • [19:39:22] <ds2> yes, I read that
  • [19:39:28] <ldesnogu> oh OK :)
  • [19:40:00] <ds2> what is confusing is their examples... they have a trend where they says low end - dbx, mid end either, high end rct... high end systems (I assume) should include everything
  • [19:40:19] <ds2> but a careful reading suggests that is wrong
  • [19:40:28] <ldesnogu> think from an embedded point of view
  • [19:40:39] <ldesnogu> a low end system has not enough memory for JIT
  • [19:40:55] <ldesnogu> a high end has enough
  • [19:41:12] <ldesnogu> and cortex-a8 is targeted to high end systems
  • [19:41:24] <ldesnogu> like omap35 :)
  • [19:41:27] <ds2> yes, but I am thinking from a software point of view - being able to use a Jazelle license for an entire line of products
  • [19:42:02] <ldesnogu> I would bet a JIT would provide more performance than Jazelle DBX
  • [19:42:41] <ds2> performance maybe but power usage may not be better then DBX
  • [19:42:54] <ldesnogu> and the JVM, which you need for DBX anyway, will make running Java transparent whether you use DBX or RCT
  • [19:43:19] <ldesnogu> you are probably right for power usage
  • [19:43:26] <ds2> yes but the readmes in the JVM suggest you need an explicit license to use DBX and I suspect it is the same for RCT
  • [19:43:33] <ds2> so it means twice the amount paid to lawyers
  • [19:44:02] <ds2> anyways, it is neat stuff.just wish it was more open
  • [19:44:16] <ldesnogu> not sure about that, I don't anything about the licensing of Jazelle
  • [19:44:23] <ldesnogu> don't know*
  • [19:46:00] <ldesnogu> anyway for the Java developer there's no added cost, the JVM is there no matter who paid for it
  • [19:46:19] <ds2> *nod*
  • [19:47:08] <ds2> with this much computing power in a low power chip, someone should make a linux watch based on an omap3
  • [19:47:29] <ldesnogu> it's probably not low power enough :)
  • [19:48:27] <ds2> this is suppose to be better then the 24xx and the 2420 as used in the N800 is impressively low powered (6-7 days standby!)
  • [19:48:51] <ldesnogu> how long does the battery last in your watch?
  • [19:49:06] <ds2> the one I wear or the one I play with? :)
  • [19:49:13] <ldesnogu> ^^
  • [19:49:31] <ds2> the palmos one lasts about a week :)
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  • [22:37:19] <ldesnogu> night all
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  • [22:55:02] <denix|work> bye
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