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  • [10:12:09] <rann> Hi all, I've been playing around with beagle for the last couple of weeks and I observe that beagle often not finds things it should imho find.
  • [10:12:43] <rann> for example: i have an email that i know is indexed. i can search for the sender of the email and find it
  • [10:12:48] <DJWillis> rann: Mozilla Beagle? This is a chan about the Beagle ARM hacking board ;-)
  • [10:13:02] <NishanthMenon> :D for a moment i did think USB ;)
  • [10:13:12] <rann> oops. i made this mistake before.. sorry!
  • [10:13:23] <DJWillis> :D, no problems
  • [10:13:33] <rann> you guys get this often?
  • [10:13:43] <NishanthMenon> mm... around once a day... i think
  • [10:13:58] <NishanthMenon> :D probably we need to change the topic - jkridner?
  • [10:14:03] <rann> hahah, wel sorry again, happy (arm) hacking then!
  • [10:14:10] <DJWillis> :)
  • [10:14:12] * rann (i=rubin@xs3.xs4all.nl) has left #beagle
  • [10:14:29] * DJWillis changes topic to 'Welcome to #Beagle | The Beagle Board | http://beagleboard.org'
  • [10:15:05] <NishanthMenon> DJWillis: probably Welcome to #beagle| OMAP+ARM+NOT MOZILLA Beagle Board?
  • [10:15:39] * DJWillis changes topic to 'Welcome to #Beagle | Discussion about the Beagle OMAP Board - http://beagleboard.org | Not Mozilla Beagle ;)'
  • [10:15:46] <DJWillis> better?
  • [10:15:51] <NishanthMenon> perfecto
  • [10:37:52] <DJWillis> http://www.dev-monkey.com/blogs/jon_titus.php?mid=135 << Interesting little take on the current trend of dev kits to set there entry levels at various points. Not that I am levelling this at TI mind you, the Mistral kits is pretty decent, however it was lacking a clear indication of exactly where to look for more info (a???la the Beagle Board site).
  • [10:39:57] <koen> ehm
  • [10:40:15] <DJWillis> Hi koen
  • [10:40:18] <koen> beagle as in http://beagle-project.org/Main_Page is definately NOT mozilla
  • [10:40:28] <koen> one could argue it's Novell, though
  • [10:40:54] <koen> hey DJWillis
  • [10:41:22] <DJWillis> koen: I guess there has been a lot of work linking it with Mozilla stuff of late, I did not check mind you ;-)
  • [10:41:40] * DJWillis changes topic to 'Welcome to #Beagle | Discussion about the Beagle OMAP Board - http://beagleboard.org | Not the Beagle search tools ;)'
  • [10:41:48] <koen> I tend to stay away from everything 'mozilla' related :)
  • [10:42:09] <koen> too much trouble getting their shitty code running on ARM EABI
  • [10:42:31] <koen> they hardcode FPA behaviour....
  • [10:42:42] <DJWillis> koen: tell me about it :(
  • [10:48:36] <koen> anyone here with an x-loader binary that doesn't disable L2 on the beagle?
  • [10:50:08] <DJWillis> koen: I have been following that, I don't have XLoader for Beagle I am afraid, only the EVM and Pandora.
  • [10:52:44] <koen> the xloader I built is only half working
  • [10:53:22] <koen> and I like to get this resolved before I head out to denmark for holidays next week
  • [10:53:30] <DJWillis> so I noticed :(, not some off GCC 4.3 'ness'? GCC versions used to kill U-Boot for a past time.
  • [10:54:08] <koen> it could be gcc 4.3
  • [10:54:22] <koen> but it does print to uart, so it is doing *something* right :)
  • [10:54:56] <NishanthMenon> koen: i am not sure, not dug into x-loader yet.. but I dont think it touches L2 there.. (at least not in 2430 revs i worked on previously)..
  • [10:55:09] <DJWillis> But ;-), I have seen problem with U-Boot causes by code/GCC combo's that still got as far as setting up the UART before. Got 4.old to try somehwere?
  • [10:55:14] <NishanthMenon> koen: probably khasim or someone might give more..
  • [10:55:44] <koen> DJWillis: 4.3 is the first to support armv7-[mra]....
  • [10:56:27] <koen> NishanthMenon: well, I'd like to have a x-loader/uboot/kernel combo that enables L2 and runs the CPU at > 400MHz :)
  • [10:56:43] <DJWillis> koen: but would the XLoader code need that level of ARM support? It's only bringing up the 1st stage
  • [10:57:12] <koen> DJWillis: I have no idea, but the makefiles inject -march=armv7(-)a
  • [10:58:27] <DJWillis> hmmm, sure I have a build somewhere that I just setup -march=armv4 on, not sure if it is a big problem. I guess that ARMv7a comes from the CodeSourcery chain then and there 'semi' official patches.
  • [10:58:38] <koen> 'patches'
  • [10:59:04] <koen> I spent a few months chasing down mysterious crashes a while back
  • [10:59:26] <koen> turns out that rebuilding everything with non CSL gcc and non CSL binutils made the crashed go away
  • [10:59:29] <DJWillis> toolchain, CodeSourcery provide the 'semi' official ARM GCC chains with there latest hacks.
  • [10:59:47] <DJWillis> Of course you knew that ;-)
  • [11:00:07] <koen> I just call them Harry Potter toolchains
  • [11:00:11] <DJWillis> lol
  • [11:00:47] <koen> have you seen their business cards?
  • [11:01:00] <DJWillis> Nope
  • [11:01:36] <koen> it lists "chief sourcerer" as job title
  • [11:01:46] <DJWillis> :-o, hmmm ;-)
  • [11:02:43] <koen> I actually liked that :)
  • [11:04:28] <DJWillis> fun I agree
  • [11:09:51] * koen pokes Crofton to wake up
  • [11:18:43] <NishanthMenon> darn.. the dual LED was coz i had a old Rev A board... :( fixed in Rev B.. koen, which rev of board do u have?
  • [11:19:45] <koen> NishanthMenon: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/2420765852/sizes/l/
  • [11:20:06] <Crofton> ok
  • [11:20:13] <NishanthMenon> ok u got a newer version than me :(
  • [11:20:21] <NishanthMenon> i got a A3 :D
  • [11:21:13] * NishanthMenon kicking himself for not reading erratas
  • [11:23:05] <koen> ever seen xscale or ep93xx errata?
  • [11:23:34] <NishanthMenon> koen: nope. never worked on xscale...
  • [11:23:41] <koen> lucky man :)
  • [11:24:53] <DJWillis> koen: you should try the errata for some of the MagicEyes ARM SoC's I have used ;-), fun fun fun. I guess there almost as good as the Marvel/Intel XScale ones.
  • [11:28:55] * Crofton needs to send stelios the dev board article
  • [11:29:58] * koen needs to get more sleep
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  • [11:34:00] <Crofton> heh
  • [11:34:13] <Crofton> any luck with xloader?
  • [11:35:26] * Crofton sees his gmail
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  • [11:55:48] <koen> Crofton: http://rafb.net/p/6S6tiM17.txt
  • [11:56:35] <koen> Crofton: the CFLAGS_append should be a hint on how crap the buildsytem is
  • [11:56:43] <NishanthMenon> neat http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard has h/w errata added to it
  • [11:57:15] <Crofton> yeah, hopefully none of the TI guys that work on build stuff hang out here
  • [11:57:26] <Crofton> dsplink raises my blood pressure
  • [11:58:37] <koen> it was copied from u-boot :)
  • [11:58:43] <koen> so just blame wolfgang
  • [11:58:46] <Crofton> heh
  • [11:59:34] <NishanthMenon> koen: u should see U-boot-V2 -> it is neat.. makes a linux developer right at home.. menuconfig and all..+ the dev structures and interfaces :)
  • [12:00:18] * koen gets back to his control engineering assignment
  • [12:00:24] <Crofton> heh
  • [12:00:34] <Crofton> what are you on now?
  • [12:03:12] <NishanthMenon> drat.. my sync32 delay logic is goofy somewhere.. still cant get the darn thing to blink.. look at it later.. getting addictive.. darn
  • [12:43:24] <koen> Crofton: sensitivy and tachofeedback
  • [12:43:45] <koen> aka "where do I put a zero over a pole?"
  • [12:43:59] <Crofton> aka why have you lost your mind ....
  • [12:44:20] <Crofton> although I suppose sometimes you need to do it
  • [12:56:12] <koen> mandatory 3rd year course
  • [12:56:21] <koen> I have ignored it for the past few years
  • [12:58:15] <Crofton> heh
  • [12:58:27] <Crofton> oddly enough, I ignored Communication theory
  • [12:58:43] <Crofton> the first time around
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  • [13:13:42] <koen> heh
  • [13:13:52] <koen> I'm doing communication systems atm as well
  • [13:14:08] <Crofton> cool
  • [13:14:27] <Crofton> properties of the fourier transform?
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  • [13:32:39] <koen> Crofton: that's for next session
  • [13:32:53] <koen> including things like VSB
  • [13:33:16] <Crofton> the trick is all the problems depend on properties of the fourier transform, so if you are doing a ot of math, you are doing the problem wrong :)
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  • [13:42:39] * jkridne1 is now known as jkridner|work
  • [13:43:06] <jkridner|work> koen, still having problems making an x-loader/MLO?
  • [13:43:45] <jkridner|work> I've seen at times that I needed reformat my card and I'm still trying to understand that. I think it could be something else I did.
  • [13:44:05] <jkridner|work> do make sure that you have the card marked as "bootable", which isn't the default for Windows formats.
  • [13:44:16] <jkridner|work> (and is why there is the pointer to the HP formatting tool)
  • [14:05:41] <prpplague> jkridner|work: you normally do your linux dev under windows?
  • [14:07:33] <jkridner|work> VMWare.
  • [14:07:37] <jkridner|work> :(
  • [14:07:55] <jkridner|work> I do most of my source code dev using GNU tools on a Mac.
  • [14:08:19] <prpplague> ahh interesting
  • [14:08:58] <prpplague> looks the beagle board wiki page is pretty active
  • [14:09:31] <jkridner|work> dirk2 is a documenting champ.
  • [14:10:27] <prpplague> looks like there are a number of others including someone GColey
  • [14:10:32] <jkridner|work> we've got to get the HW docs out there. I'm hopeful this community is forgiving for early hardware.
  • [14:10:44] <jkridner|work> GColey = father of the Beagle. :)
  • [14:11:15] <prpplague> jkridner: they are, we've had pretty good feedback from community with the hammer
  • [14:11:33] <Crofton> well, we always need something to complain about :)
  • [14:11:38] <jkridner|work> :)
  • [14:11:46] <jkridner|work> there is something to always complain about.
  • [14:12:01] <jkridner|work> I think it matters how we respond, more than if there is something to complain about or not.
  • [14:12:13] <Crofton> right
  • [14:13:04] <jkridner|work> so, I'm hearing some grumbling that I haven't had a chance to verify myself, that there are problems with the USB (even OTG port) when running at 500MHz with L2 cache enabled.
  • [14:13:21] <jkridner|work> this doesn't make sense to me, since the EVM doesn't have problems at 600MHz, as far as I know.
  • [14:13:45] <jkridner|work> and the EVM code includes the L2 cache enabled.
  • [14:16:28] <prpplague> jkridner|work: i can't speak for the omap stuff, but the samsung s3c24xx series can be tricky on calculating the correct pll for the usb interfaces
  • [14:18:22] <DJWillis> prpplague: that would be my guess
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  • [14:25:09] <jkridner|work> it is a bit of a catch-22 we've been fighting. getting the boards in more hands will help with debugging, but it also means getting more buggy hardware into people's hands. I think so far we've still been too conservative in how many (potentially bad) boards we've built up. but, prototypes aren't cheap and we need to show good functionality to drive demand--and there won't be any demand if the boards aren't debugged. Anyway, a lot of
  • [14:27:05] <jkridner|work> http://www.beagleboard.org/uploads/Beagle_HW_Reference_Manual_A_5.pdf
  • [14:27:14] <jkridner|work> (thanks GColey)
  • [14:27:18] * prpplague looks
  • [14:27:24] <prpplague> jkridner|work: yea, its a fine line
  • [14:28:56] <DJWillis> jkridner|work: as you know that fine line is the same problem for our boards. Not going to stop me having my name down for a Beagle whenever mind you ;-). I like debugging oddness ;-)
  • [14:29:10] <prpplague> wow pretty detailed doc
  • [14:29:49] <prpplague> DJWillis: what type of boards do you guys produce?
  • [14:29:49] <jkridner|work> well, it won't stay odd forever.
  • [14:29:55] <jkridner|work> you getting a Pandora board soon?
  • [14:31:47] <DJWillis> prpplague: the Pandora board jkridner mentioned.
  • [14:32:17] <prpplague> DJWillis: url?
  • [14:32:28] <DJWillis> jkridner|work: was talking to Michael, I think the aim is the get me the 2nd one, got XLoader and U-Boot going on them.
  • [14:33:37] <prpplague> jkridner|work: is the layout of the beagle pretty solid now?
  • [14:33:43] <prpplague> jkridner|work: just bug fixes
  • [14:34:44] <prpplague> ahh oh yea i remember the pandora info now
  • [14:34:49] <DJWillis> prpplague: it's an odd little device, I guess the best URL would be http://www.openpandora.org/ or http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page not that either site has a huge amount of info on.
  • [14:35:38] <prpplague> yea i looked at a couple posts about that the other day
  • [14:35:56] <prpplague> i'd like to get my hands on a reasonably priced A8 design
  • [14:36:09] <prpplague> so i can tinker with adding A8 support to openocd
  • [14:36:47] <DJWillis> Well I am just the free Linux hacker who got mixed up in things ;-). I would love to get that jTAG solution of yours working sometime however.
  • [14:37:23] <prpplague> yea, flyswatter + openocd works pretty well, just need cortex-A8 support
  • [14:37:32] <DJWillis> ;-)
  • [14:38:30] <prpplague> i'd like to see an omap version of the hammer
  • [14:38:37] <prpplague> but that is a ways off
  • [14:39:56] <DJWillis> prpplague: You just need TI to do small numbers of design samples I guess. Then design it of course ;-)
  • [14:40:40] <prpplague> DJWillis: yea problem there is we aren't geared up for that bga pitch size as of yet
  • [14:40:48] <prpplague> DJWillis: won;t be untill this time next year
  • [14:41:04] <DJWillis> Oh, you make your own? Thinking about it, of course you do.
  • [14:41:29] <prpplague> yea
  • [15:00:44] <Crofton> the power measurement attachment will be useful :)
  • [15:04:06] <Crofton> how fast are the McBSP ports?
  • [15:09:20] <ali_as> prpplague, Steamhammer maybe?
  • [15:09:25] <Crofton> I need to find a hw weenie to make a FPGA DB that can talk to USRP db's :)
  • [15:09:32] <prpplague> ali_as: hehe
  • [15:09:55] <ali_as> Trying to think of something bigger than a sledgehammer, and they were pretty big.
  • [15:19:35] <ali_as> I'd like to see an OMAP3 laptop.
  • [15:20:05] <ali_as> Just slightly dissapointed ti isn't going all the way to 1GHz.
  • [15:21:33] <prpplague> ali_as: well, i'm going to try and document my hammer laptop in the coming weeks
  • [15:22:20] <ali_as> You are making a hammer laptop!
  • [15:24:35] <prpplague> ali_as: hehe, its more of a retro fit of an existing device
  • [15:24:41] <prpplague> ali_as: a mod kit if you will
  • [15:24:53] <ali_as> A similar idea occured to me.
  • [15:25:19] <prpplague> http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2340839
  • [15:25:29] <ali_as> Will graphics bandwidth be a problem?
  • [15:27:54] <prpplague> hehe, not really with a 240x120 display, hehe
  • [15:28:00] <ali_as> For so little, that can't be what it looks like.
  • [15:28:15] <ali_as> Only the tiny middle is really the screen?
  • [15:28:21] <prpplague> ali_as: correct
  • [15:28:57] <prpplague> i have some 320x240 and 640x480's i'm gonna see if i can fit in the case
  • [15:29:19] <ali_as> I was thinking more about retrofitting a real laptop.
  • [15:29:49] <ali_as> But would need a completely custom motherboard.
  • [15:30:10] <prpplague> ali_as: yea this works better, since 90% of the kids laptop is empty
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  • [15:30:18] <prpplague> ali_as: plenty of room for mods
  • [15:44:45] <jkridner|work> prpplague: Beagle layout is only going through bug fixes. There are some minor improvements to the USB layout and fixes to the errata listed on the http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard page.
  • [15:45:08] * DarrenEtheridge (n=a0867391@nat/ti/x-340ea4513be6d37b) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [15:45:11] <prpplague> jkridner|work: thats what i figured
  • [15:45:21] <jkridner|work> prpplague, ali_as: I'd love to see someone do an OMAP3 motherboard for the OLPC to bring the power down and the performance up.
  • [15:45:50] <prpplague> jkridner|work: one thing we do with the LED's such as the power led and user leds is we use a header so external leds can be attached if someone decides to put the pcb in a case
  • [15:45:52] <koen> jkridner|work: I only replaced the mlo binaries on my card and the one from TI boots uboot and the one I compiled starts, but doesn't load uboot
  • [15:45:56] <koen> so the card is ok
  • [15:45:56] <jkridner|work> prpplague: no feature/functional changes planned.
  • [15:46:14] <koen> (replacing my mlo with the mlo.ti made things work again)
  • [15:46:26] <jkridner|work> yeah, it isn't the most case friendly.
  • [15:47:03] <jkridner|work> since the main guys doing it are at TI, we don't want to be too competitive with our customers. The point of Beagle is to be friendly to developers.
  • [15:47:12] <prpplague> yea
  • [15:47:20] <jkridner|work> koen: hmmm... so, your new MLO is bad?
  • [15:48:12] <jkridner|work> koen: have you tried rebuilding from the http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard source to make sure you have the build/sign process down?
  • [15:54:07] <ali_as> An x86 in the OLPC was a major missed opertunity to throw away a lot of legacy crap.
  • [15:54:28] <ali_as> Generations of kids are now doomed to grow up programming that.
  • [15:58:15] <koen> jkridner|work: it produces some output, so the signing process works
  • [15:59:24] <jkridner|work> ali_as: well, there are only about 200,000 of those made the last time I checked.
  • [15:59:34] <jkridner|work> I managed to bust mine--no time to fix.
  • [16:00:21] <jkridner|work> seems like switching to ARM could help them a lot. I really need to contact those guys. (Switching to e-mail)
  • [16:03:16] <koen> ali_as: I really liked jg_'s posts like "my arm pda from 2001 running linux can suspend/resume in 20ms, my 2GHz laptop needs 3 minutes"
  • [16:21:49] <prpplague> the most expensive portion of a laptop design is the tooling for the plastics
  • [16:22:16] <ali_as> ARM was designed only about 10 years after the first CPU, the 4004. I wonder what could be done now if we started from scratch.
  • [16:22:30] <koen> ali_as: avr32 :)
  • [16:24:05] <ali_as> Never met that cpu.
  • [16:24:40] <koen> it's what happens when arm and mips have babies in norway
  • [16:24:47] <ali_as> Lol.
  • [16:25:12] <koen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR32
  • [16:25:24] <ali_as> Looking at that now.
  • [16:26:06] <ali_as> Doesn't give much away.
  • [16:26:22] <koen> it's not really 'from scratch', but it has learned from ARMs mistakes
  • [16:29:31] <koen> jkridner|work: in what stage of the bootprocess does the clock and cache get setup for the last time?
  • [16:29:42] <koen> ROM, x-load, u-boot, linux?
  • [16:32:25] <koen> prpplague: I showed the hammer and nail to my lab-partner and he found it very interesting
  • [16:32:44] <prpplague> koen: yea?
  • [16:32:48] <koen> I usually have a hard time explaining why embedded linux boards are cool to my fellow EEs
  • [16:33:12] <prpplague> koen: we are trying to get some course work ready for some universities to use the hammer for embedded design classes
  • [16:33:52] <koen> CS means "java" here....
  • [16:34:27] <prpplague> hehe
  • [16:35:43] <koen> jkridner|work: fwiw, usbhost is flaky in my board, both with 2.6.22 and 2.6.25
  • [16:35:59] <koen> 2.6.25 just prints more error messages about clocks
  • [16:36:13] <koen> I'm hoping that clocking the cpu higher will solve those issues :)
  • [16:36:38] <ali_as> Some day the assembler programers will rise up and smash the inefficiancies of a world by the descendents of C#.
  • [16:37:01] <koen> "flaky" in the sense that the usb stack crashes under high cpu load
  • [16:37:12] <koen> so "wget" is pretty ok, but "scp" isn't
  • [16:37:45] * koen heads to a meeting
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  • [17:26:47] * BThompson (n=BThompso@nat/ti/x-c00cd40535529288) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  • [17:29:57] <prpplague> koen: so was there any feed back on the hammer/nail boards from your lab-partner?
  • [17:30:05] <prpplague> (other than it was interesting)
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  • [18:49:00] <Crofton> w00t
  • [18:53:09] * RogerMonk (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-98c67a9d46c3a6f7) has left #beagle
  • [18:53:17] <Crofton> problem one with the beagle, it's too small
  • [18:55:42] <prpplague> Crofton: ??
  • [18:55:55] <ds2> $!#!@@#$!@#!@$@$#@!!!!!
  • [18:56:13] * Crofton needs to go to the store :)
  • [18:56:27] <ds2> you want small - http://www.picotux.com/
  • [18:56:56] <Crofton> ds2, I am blind as a bat without contacts
  • [18:57:12] <Crofton> to add insult to injury, now I am getting far sighted with age
  • [18:57:38] <Crofton> the components on it are jumping around like crazy
  • [19:01:13] * RogerMonk (n=a0740758@nat/ti/x-11f91f216b45b777) has joined #beagle
  • [19:04:58] <Crofton> In the very small world department, I have just received an email about the beagle from CRC in .ca
  • [19:05:09] <Crofton> about SDR applications for it :)
  • [19:09:21] <ds2> Crofton: what are you using as the ADC/preamp?
  • [19:09:38] <Crofton> USRP
  • [19:09:50] <Crofton> need to get on testing the USRP with beagle ASAP
  • [19:09:59] <Crofton> I've just lost interest in NAND flash ....
  • [19:10:40] <koen> Crofton: your beagle arrived?
  • [19:11:25] <Crofton> yeah
  • [19:11:28] <koen> nice
  • [19:11:31] <koen> rev A5?
  • [19:11:40] <Crofton> and I have some Canadian begging for one
  • [19:11:46] <Crofton> yep
  • [19:11:51] <koen> nice
  • [19:12:02] <Crofton> I assume I need a powered USB hub
  • [19:12:07] <koen> I'll talk to you about it tomorrow on how to get stuff working
  • [19:12:12] <koen> usbhost is powered
  • [19:12:19] <Crofton> ok
  • [19:12:25] <Crofton> I need to go shopping
  • [19:12:26] <koen> using a hub makes it more flaky
  • [19:12:37] <ds2> how do we get one?
  • [19:12:53] * koen needs to stop people from killing each other
  • [19:12:57] <Crofton> Have a plan that benefits the community
  • [19:13:12] <koen> I wish people that are going to spend ???100000 had more common sense
  • [19:13:20] <Crofton> I will sing beagle to the SDR community
  • [19:13:40] * Crofton does not see koen as the guy he would pick to stop people killing each other :)
  • [19:13:43] <koen> Crofton: add armv6 and armv7a feeds to /etc/ipkg/
  • [19:13:57] * koen is really gone now
  • [19:13:58] <koen> ttyl
  • [19:14:02] <Crofton> koen, I need to use usbhost connecotr
  • [19:14:04] <Crofton> l8r
  • [19:14:15] <ds2> getting 3430 stuff working on the beagle is beneficial
  • [19:15:19] <Crofton> :)
  • [19:15:25] <Crofton> supply is really tight
  • [19:15:56] * DarrenEtheridg1 (n=a0867391@nat/ti/x-32bea2a0abfd76be) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  • [19:16:30] <Crofton> I am hopeful to have something I can show off at a workshop in early May
  • [19:17:16] <NishanthMenon> Crofton: i had a surprise today.. I powered beagle off my keyboard (bus powered).. at least during initial boot.. it did work I think that implies during initial stage atleast it uses <= 100mA, or my keyboard hub is stupid and does not crib about overcurrent status and kill the port..
  • [19:17:29] <Crofton> heh
  • [19:17:46] <Crofton> I need a shopping list
  • [19:17:56] <Crofton> so I can get supplies to work with in the AM
  • [19:18:00] * NishanthMenon dreaming of head mounted display :)
  • [19:18:53] <Crofton> alright, must prioritize, pay bills, send email to Canuck begging for beagle, and build supply list
  • [19:18:55] <ds2> a car-puter would nice
  • [19:19:07] <Crofton> my friend made one
  • [19:20:53] <ds2> NishanthMenon: does hotplugging a device currently work on the beagle's musb port?
  • [19:39:43] <Crofton> so I connect the USB OTG port to the PC and I should see messages on the serial port?
  • [19:48:58] <koen> Crofton: yes
  • [19:49:03] <koen> ..40T
  • [19:49:10] <koen> that's the ROM message
  • [19:49:20] <Crofton> awesome
  • [19:49:22] <Crofton> I have that
  • [19:49:23] <NishanthMenon> musb as device looks working.. yes, and even serial worked.. all u'd see is led blinking
  • [19:49:40] <Crofton> power via OTG port
  • [19:49:50] <Crofton> I can work serial console
  • [19:50:24] <Crofton> guess I should grab a powered hub, and HDMI to something convertor
  • [19:50:36] <Crofton> a longer usb cable
  • [19:50:50] <Crofton> hmm, shoudl check around, I have dozens of thise
  • [19:51:23] <NishanthMenon> Crofton: yes -> that is how it worked for me.. usb power, download over serial..
  • [19:55:42] <Crofton> I am working toward boot from SD
  • [19:58:31] * dirk2 (n=dirk@F30c0.f.strato-dslnet.de) has left #beagle
  • [20:07:07] * dannyBlue (n=chatzill@a213-22-213-84.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #beagle
  • [20:07:35] <dannyBlue> Hi all.
  • [20:14:51] <dannyBlue> I would like to know the availability of the boards.
  • [20:20:09] <Crofton> dannyBlue, they are very very scarce right now
  • [20:21:28] <dannyBlue> I see. I am doing some development work, so i have OGL ES 2.x software to run, and would like to test this on chip. Do you think in July/ August there will be available boards?
  • [20:22:04] <Crofton> from what I ahve heard, yes
  • [20:22:16] <Crofton> but I am not in a position to know if this is a good answer ....
  • [20:22:32] <dannyBlue> I am porting the Horde3D shader based 3d engine to ogl 2.x
  • [20:23:44] <dannyBlue> I don't mind assembling the board myself ;
  • [20:23:46] <dannyBlue> ;)
  • [20:32:39] <dannyBlue> Do you guys know of any other board that is available for a low price?
  • [20:38:57] <dannyBlue> Are the schematrics available, and where cna i order the parts?
  • [20:39:04] <dannyBlue> schematics*
  • [20:50:39] <prpplague> dannyBlue: are you looking for an omap board specifically or just a dev board in general?
  • [20:51:17] <dannyBlue> as long as it runs opengl es 2.x i don't care
  • [20:51:47] <dannyBlue> but i think TI is the only one that has ogl 2.x chips available atm
  • [20:54:00] <dannyBlue> I treid openpandora but they do not have any boards ready... and th TI reference board is way expensive
  • [20:57:50] <DJWillis> dannyBlue: we only have a very small number of boards at the moment (Pandora), as for the the Beagle, if your happy to wait it looks like a very good option for what you need.
  • [20:59:23] <dannyBlue> i guess i will have to wait. thanks for the info. :)
  • [21:00:17] <DJWillis> dannyBlue: I think (but can't be sure) that the OpenGL drivers are still being improved.
  • [21:05:48] <dannyBlue> doesn't powerVR supply those?
  • [21:06:15] <DJWillis> Yep
  • [21:07:31] <dannyBlue> Have you guys successfully run OGL ES 2.x code on the boards?
  • [21:08:56] <DJWillis> Not me, I have however seen demos, the Open VG aspects of the chip interest me more ;). I tend to just like to hack around. I am sure there are a few in the chan that have used/messed with the OpenGL stuff.
  • [21:10:04] <dannyBlue> I was at Barcelona and saw several phones with ES 2.x capabilities, but i just can't find a dev board :p
  • [21:10:36] <DJWillis> ;-)
  • [21:11:18] <jkridner|work> dannyBlue: PDF of layout and schematics are in the HW reference manual.
  • [21:12:10] <dannyBlue> are the parts available to order, or are they custom made/assembled.
  • [21:12:21] <jkridner|work> dannyBlue: yes, OGLES2.0 code has been run on the board, but I don't have demos I can reproduce at this point.
  • [21:12:38] <dannyBlue> great.
  • [21:12:40] <jkridner|work> early SDKs have gone out to folks who will ultimately create open platforms.
  • [21:12:53] <ds2> HmmpF
  • [21:13:11] <jkridner|work> The quickest way to get an OMAP3 device is to order the EVM: http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdxevm3503.html
  • [21:13:21] <jkridner|work> there are a lot more of those built up than Beagles.
  • [21:13:52] <jkridner|work> which, looking back, turns out to surprise me. but, the EVM is where all the TI/Mistral resources were applied.
  • [21:13:54] <dannyBlue> yeah but i am a student now, do not have the $$ to spend 1500 on a board
  • [21:15:19] <dannyBlue> i guess i will have to wait. I am used to assemble electronic kits, and doign some atmel programming, but this is probably out of my league hardware wise.
  • [21:15:50] <jkridner|work> yeah, assembling a Beagle is a VERY complex task.
  • [21:16:16] <jkridner|work> Beagle currently uses multiple 0.4mm ball pitch BGA packages and includes package-on-package memories.
  • [21:16:56] <dannyBlue> hum... never worked with p.o.p memories at all
  • [21:17:19] * likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #beagle
  • [21:17:20] <NishanthMenon> dannyBlue: it is h/w folks who fret.. POP gives better clocking :)
  • [21:17:30] <NishanthMenon> so s/w folks actually dont realize the difference..
  • [21:17:54] <ds2> when your trace length is that short...
  • [21:18:31] * jkridner|work is stepping away from the computer again.
  • [21:18:54] <dannyBlue> I never programmed very complex hardware stuff. only the hydra game console, and programmed a couple of atmel chips
  • [21:19:03] <dannyBlue> i am more of a software guy.
  • [21:20:23] <dannyBlue> It's really frustrating to have to run the software emulator, and not being able to access hardware, to see the diffs and how to optimize the code...
  • [21:22:57] * likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) has left #beagle
  • [21:28:45] * NishanthMenon (n=gnat@nat/ti/x-88e1ca339824f276) Quit ("Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow")
  • [21:31:47] * Crofton has a beagle and has bought bits and pieces
  • [21:32:19] <Crofton> crap, I forgot to pick up more SD cards ...
  • [21:41:39] <Crofton> jkridner|work, ping
  • [21:42:04] <jkridner|work> pong
  • [21:42:08] <jkridner|work> I'm back.
  • [21:42:13] <Crofton> hi
  • [21:42:30] <Crofton> I've had another email from a person interested in SDR
  • [21:42:58] <jkridner|work> excellent. I believe you have other TI contacts for SDR, right?
  • [21:44:01] <Crofton> yeah
  • [21:44:16] <Crofton> A guy in my former lab has interned in Wireless Infrastructure
  • [21:46:16] <jkridner|work> Pandora looks like it is starting to come to life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU7M44cS59k
  • [21:47:06] <Crofton> http://crc.ca/en/html/crc/home/home
  • [21:48:42] <Crofton> hmm, I need to email Huges about his presentationin Rome
  • [21:49:37] <jkridner|work> what can I learn from this?
  • [21:50:25] <Crofton> heh
  • [21:50:39] <Crofton> just that real people are interested :)
  • [21:51:10] <Crofton> I didn't know he was giving that talk, it surprised me
  • [21:51:23] <jkridner|work> well, that is what I expect.
  • [21:52:20] <jkridner|work> I don't see anything particular on the site.
  • [21:53:07] <jkridner|work> just interest in SDR, not Beagle/OMAP3. :)
  • [21:53:22] <jkridner|work> I guess you will fix that though. ;)
  • [21:53:41] <Crofton> http://crc.ca/en/html/crc/home/research/satcom/rars/sdr/sdr
  • [21:53:45] <Crofton> right
  • [21:53:57] <Crofton> they want a beagle :)
  • [21:55:04] <Crofton> but, first I need to get this to do something :)
  • [21:55:21] <Crofton> How fast are the McBSP ports that are on the expansion connector?
  • [21:55:54] <ds2> doesn't it depend on how fast you give it clock or program the clock it?
  • [21:56:26] <Crofton> How fast can you clock it then :)
  • [21:57:11] <ds2> as fast as it is spec'ed for and no more ;)
  • [21:57:13] <Crofton> basically, I am wondering if you could hang an FPGA and some high speed ADC/DAC's on a daughtercard
  • [21:57:26] <ds2> what speed are you thinking of?
  • [21:57:50] <Crofton> well, say 8 MHz of 16 bit complex samples
  • [21:58:06] <Crofton> 8*32 Mbitspersec
  • [21:58:24] <Crofton> on the order of high speed USB
  • [21:58:42] <ds2> so a clock rate of 256MHz? hmm
  • [21:59:11] <Crofton> it all depends on how much you do in the FPGA
  • [21:59:30] <Crofton> there are plenty off applications that would use less
  • [21:59:38] <jkridner|work> I'm pretty much tapped out on Beagles till the next batch comes in.
  • [21:59:59] <Crofton> I understand
  • [22:00:11] <jkridner|work> I tried to set a very high priority on folks who are active in communication and would contribute to a project right away.
  • [22:00:11] <Crofton> do you have an idea when you will be able to click on "buy"
  • [22:00:37] <Crofton> crc would not be a good choice from the "community" sense
  • [22:00:46] <Crofton> at least based on what I know
  • [22:00:51] <Crofton> they are nice guys though
  • [22:01:02] <Crofton> I offered to test things for them :)
  • [22:01:13] <jkridner|work> I'm still saying June, as long as we can resolve the USB and performance concerns being seen by koen.
  • [22:01:19] <Crofton> ok
  • [22:01:41] <jkridner|work> I think they are most likely configuration issues, but we need to keep banging on the hardware.
  • [22:01:48] <Crofton> right
  • [22:02:07] <Crofton> I'll be out of town friday to Monday :(
  • [22:02:09] * jkridner|work is off to a meeting 2 minutes late (and it will even include discussion on this very topic).
  • [22:02:20] <Crofton> but, hoepfully I can get this going
  • [22:02:26] <Crofton> l8r
  • [22:02:28] <jkridner|work> Crofton: Beagle is quite easy to take for travel with a laptop. :)
  • [22:03:11] <Crofton> right
  • [22:05:41] <ds2> don't think anything has the McBSP going at 256MHz
  • [22:07:18] <ds2> most stuff seems to be 1/2 that
  • [22:07:38] * BThompson (n=BThompso@nat/ti/x-4afea21d89fceeff) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  • [22:10:24] * prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) Quit ("Leaving")
  • [22:11:17] <Crofton> ds2, ok
  • [22:11:22] <Crofton> that would still be useful
  • [22:11:24] * christian00 (i=WinNT@217-133-13-16.b2b.tiscali.it) has joined #beagle
  • [22:11:31] <christian00> hi guys
  • [22:30:12] * prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-166-139.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #beagle
  • [22:42:28] <jkridner|work> hi
  • [22:43:02] <jkridner|work> I don't recall the McBSP clock rate off hand, but it is closer to the 25-50MHz range, not 250MHz.
  • [22:43:07] <prpplague> jkridner|work greetings
  • [22:43:20] <prpplague> jkridner|work still slaving away at this hour?
  • [22:43:56] <Crofton> jkridner, basically I need to understand how I would move data to/from a FPGA attach via the peripheral interface
  • [22:44:28] <Crofton> that is the limiting factor on the bandwidth of signal you can pass to the beagle for processing
  • [22:44:50] <jkridner|work> prpplague: still before quitting time for me.
  • [22:45:00] <Crofton> TV would need say, 6 MSPS where a sample would be like 32 bits
  • [22:45:13] <Crofton> not sure what HDTV BW is
  • [22:45:24] <jkridner|work> prpplague: can you drop me another e-mail?
  • [22:45:38] <Crofton> Broadcast FM needs around 200KSPS
  • [22:45:40] <jkridner|work> prpplague: I forgot to save your contact info.
  • [22:45:49] <jkridner|work> Crofton: how many bits?
  • [22:45:54] <Crofton> 32 bits
  • [22:46:01] <Crofton> 16 bits I 16 bits Q
  • [22:46:05] <jkridner|work> so, 6.4Mbps?
  • [22:46:17] * Crofton would ned to double check math
  • [22:46:46] <Crofton> I need to work all this out so when I am drinking Guinness in Ireland I can say sane thigns to people
  • [22:46:53] <Crofton> and he needs to go mow!
  • [22:47:06] <jkridner|work> Crofton: if that is the rate, then the McBSP should be flexible enough for you. You can find the clock rate in the data manual.
  • [22:47:27] <Crofton> ok
  • [22:47:33] <Crofton> the 1000 page manual?
  • [22:48:05] * Crofton wishes he hadn't chucked the 6800 docs he used to have so he could complain about the complexity of modern chips
  • [22:48:50] <dannyBlue> back...
  • [22:49:55] <dannyBlue> So where can one get one fo these OMAP3530 chips. Do i need to contact TI?
  • [22:50:16] <prpplague> dannyBlue pretty hard to get so far
  • [22:50:26] <prpplague> dannyBlue i tried to get some engineering samples this week
  • [22:50:56] <dannyBlue> I am thinking on kissing some ass to get my univ to contact TI and get some :D
  • [22:51:10] <jkridner|work> Crofton: See Section 6.6 of http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3503.pdf.
  • [22:51:47] <jkridner|work> dannyBlue: do you really want chip samples or do you want a board?
  • [22:52:39] <dannyBlue> i would like a board, but it seems unlikelly i will get one... so i may be able to convince a professor to help me assemble a working system.
  • [22:53:47] * BThompson (n=BThompso@cpe-76-183-86-15.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [22:54:01] <jkridner|work> Crofton: it looks like 6Mbps is close to the maximum clock rate for the McBSPs.
  • [22:55:05] <prpplague> dannyBlue hope you got plenty of dev funds
  • [22:56:16] <dannyBlue> what is the cost for say 8 samples?
  • [22:56:37] <jkridner|work> dannyBlue: you are best off working with a Beagle (hope to be available in June at $149), an EVM (available today at $1499), or waiting on someone else to make a board.
  • [22:56:47] * NishanthM (n=Nishanth@cpe-24-175-68-203.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [22:56:50] <jkridner|work> LogicPD also has boards today.
  • [22:57:51] <dannyBlue> June, would work. How certain are you of that date?
  • [22:57:57] <jkridner|work> Crofton: Is section 6.6 of the data manual too difficult?
  • [22:59:41] <dannyBlue> LogicPD is available what is the price range?
  • [23:00:51] <jkridner|work> http://www.logicpd.com/products/som/ti/omap35x, http://www.logicpd.com/products/som/ti/omap3430, don't see prices and availability.
  • [23:01:47] <jkridner|work> http://www.logicpd.com/products/devkit/ti/zoom_mobile_development_kit#pricing
  • [23:02:05] <prpplague> i can't speak for anyone else, but i'd not take a logicpd board if it was attached to a stack of $100 bills
  • [23:02:35] <jkridner|work> $875 seems to be just a recommended resale price.
  • [23:02:44] <dannyBlue> yeah... ouch
  • [23:03:57] * prpplague 's first ARM board was the Bitsy from ADS and he paid $8000 for the kit
  • [23:04:25] * dannyBlue did he paid or did he get someone to pick up the tab?
  • [23:04:33] <jkridner|work> prpplague: can you drop me an e-mail? I don't want to spend the time to go and search for your last mail.
  • [23:05:35] <prpplague> jkridner|work hehe looking for a email address to send me a nasty gram?
  • [23:06:20] <jkridner|work> prpplague: no, just trying to figure out how to best get Cortex-A8 support in OpenOCD.
  • [23:06:42] <prpplague> ahh
  • [23:07:06] <prpplague> jkridner|work sent
  • [23:09:44] <jkridner|work> sakoman: feedback from Mistral is that the noise issue isn't there on their WinCE, so it must be the Linux software. Further, it must be the filtering function applied.
  • [23:10:06] <jkridner|work> sakoman: we are still working the issue, just thought you'd want the latest.
  • [23:10:37] * jkridner|work mumbles about distractions from Beagle.
  • [23:12:14] <sakoman> jkridner|work: thanks for the update!
  • [23:12:48] <sakoman> I understand the whole distraction thing. Feels like haven't accomplished much today at all :-(
  • [23:13:54] <ds2> prplague: not even if the logicpd board came with a stack of gold coins the same weight as the board? ;)
  • [23:13:57] <NishanthM> heh heh. i was itching to get to the board yesterday and once i finished "work" at 11 nite.. guess i could not resist anymore... it is darn well addictive..
  • [23:14:40] <prpplague> ds2 i might consider it if i needed something to scrap ice off my windshield
  • [23:15:29] <ds2> I could understand the $100 bill one but gold coins... HMmmmmmm
  • [23:15:50] <prpplague> i did say a stack of $100 bills
  • [23:16:38] <NishanthM> prpplague: i cannot speak of rest of logicpd boards.. zoom MDK i tried, well was ok for me.. well.. i love probe points etc.. having not worked on EVM3430, well SDP3430 is the best i have seen
  • [23:19:26] <ds2> prpplague: at the current rate of inflation, a stack might not even get a single gold coin ;)
  • [23:19:54] <ds2> the ZoomMDK looks ugly enough that I'd prefer the 2430SDPv2.x over it any day
  • [23:20:18] <prpplague> NishanthM yea i've had several logicpd boards purchased by my employer
  • [23:20:46] <prpplague> NishanthM and the addition of their cpld and their layout makes it a nightmare to do dev with
  • [23:20:52] <jkridner|work> NishanthM: I think you mean the OMAP3503 EVM. I know the 35 vs. 34 stuff can be confusing.
  • [23:21:30] <NishanthM> jkridner|work: oops.. yes.. as koen said: not enough coffee...
  • [23:22:16] <ds2> s/2430/3430/
  • [23:25:37] <jkridner|work> I'm not trying to pimp LogicPD in that I really don't have any vested interest there, but I'm surprised by some of the reactions.
  • [23:25:53] <jkridner|work> I just pulled down the schematics....
  • [23:26:04] <jkridner|work> I don't see any CPLD on this one...
  • [23:26:48] <jkridner|work> http://www.logicpd.com/products/som/ti/omap3430#configuration
  • [23:26:56] <jkridner|work> http://www.logicpd.com/downloads/1060/1007969rev8nw_OMAP3430_SOM_Schematics.pdf
  • [23:27:01] <jkridner|work> (requires login)
  • [23:28:33] <dannyBlue> has anyone had success getting an nvidia APX2500? I tried to email them, they didn't even reply to the mail.
  • [23:28:34] <prpplague> jkridner|work maybe they've changed some of their ways
  • [23:28:36] * prpplague looks
  • [23:28:48] * jkridner|work on the phone
  • [23:39:54] <jkridner|work> ds2: is it the hardware flexibility why you'd want the SDP.
  • [23:39:56] <jkridner|work> ?
  • [23:40:48] <ds2> jkridner|work: no, i find the Zoom repulsively ugly for demos... other mfg's have "phone" dev platforms that look like a phone not an poor attempt to revive the speak and spell look
  • [23:40:59] <ds2> even though that was a TI product ;)
  • [23:41:03] <jkridner|work> :)
  • [23:41:23] <ds2> I seem to get stuck setting up demos thesedays :/
  • [23:41:56] * NishanthM (n=Nishanth@cpe-24-175-68-203.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  • [23:42:04] <jkridner|work> ds2: I've tried to send you some /msg, but you haven't responded.
  • [23:42:14] * NishanthM (n=Nishanth@cpe-24-175-68-203.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #beagle
  • [23:42:27] <ds2> jkridner|work: I didn't see anything... are you registered and ident'ed to the NickServ?
  • [23:42:39] <jkridner|work> hmmm... not with this nick.
  • [23:42:47] <BThompson> yea i dont think /msg works unless you are registered with this server
  • [23:42:52] <ds2> it drops messages otherwise :(
  • [23:43:19] <jkridner|work> It works with some people and not others as far as I've seen.
  • [23:43:41] <ds2> blah
  • [23:45:04] <ds2> I seem to get back a 505 for msg's from a non id'ed nick
  • [23:50:49] <dannyBlue> OT: Is it possible to use soemthing like QT113-D Touch Sensor to get directions?
  • [23:58:38] * dannyBlue (n=chatzill@a213-22-213-84.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]")