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  • [00:35:47] <prpplague> jkridner you get your email?
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  • [04:31:00] <jkridner> fischer: there should have been a warning in the box telling you to reflash the image on your EVM. let me know if that was not the case.
  • [04:31:25] <jkridner> prpplague: do I need to check it now?
  • [04:40:28] <jkridner> I did get a tracking number.
  • [04:41:57] <jkridner> Crofton!!!!
  • [04:42:02] <jkridner> how can someone write that!!!
  • [04:42:09] <jkridner> it is nonsense.
  • [04:42:34] <jkridner> there are many falsehoods.
  • [04:44:35] <jkridner> Crofton, thanks for pointing this article out. I had missed it. There are some good criticisms of silicon vendors, but Alan seems to be missing the full OMAP story.
  • [05:12:42] * jkridner is off to sleep
  • [10:15:58] <Crofton> gm
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  • [11:10:55] <jkridner> Crofton, gm
  • [11:12:29] <Crofton> glad you "liked" the article
  • [11:12:50] <Crofton> it seemed short on details
  • [11:17:31] <jkridner> yeah, like an entire product family.
  • [11:17:44] <jkridner> and several board manufacturers.
  • [11:17:54] <jkridner> and ... and ... :)
  • [11:18:41] <jkridner> there are multiple OMAP2 board makers, but it isn't a broad market product, so it should be something he compares.
  • [11:45:38] * DarrenEtheridge (n=a0867391@nat/ti/x-8df055ee0f32700d) has joined #beagle
  • [11:52:40] <Crofton> One day, we'd like to be able to make board dev kits from OE
  • [11:52:56] <Crofton> We are weak at packaging the tool chain we create atm
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  • [12:53:36] <DJWillis> Crofton: 'interesting' article. Not sure I totally agree with a lot of it ;-).
  • [12:54:13] <Crofton> it seemed on topic :)
  • [12:55:00] <DJWillis> Oh, it's on topic, just not sure I totally agree with his views, as jkridnen mentioned some of it is vaild.
  • [12:55:33] <Crofton> TI has not had a strong relationship with the open source community
  • [12:55:49] <Crofton> Hopefully, people are beginning to change :)
  • [12:56:15] <Crofton> the article was long on vagueness also
  • [12:57:36] <fischer> jkridner: yes, the documentation said I needed to reflash. I bricked my 6446 EVM when I reflashed it, so I am going slower this time.
  • [13:01:24] <Crofton> fischer, you should be able t unbrick the 6446 evm with the dvflasher?
  • [13:02:09] <fischer> Yes, my 6446 evm is working again. being able to boot over serial is a great feature.
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  • [13:49:25] <jkridne1> I just missed fischer... wanted to tell him that the OMAP3 EVM should be "unbrickable".
  • [13:49:46] <jkridne1> difference is there is support for the serial bootloader through the ROM, so no need to go to JTAG.
  • [14:10:43] * fischer (n=tfischer@fischerfamily.org) has joined #beagle
  • [14:29:22] <DJWillis> Crofton: I am very aware of that, in my view things are massively improving on the open source front.
  • [14:29:35] <DJWillis> jkridne1: I that is a really nice feature.
  • [14:29:39] <Crofton> beagle is a large step forward
  • [14:31:43] <Crofton> now all we need is a free (as in freedom) c64 compiler :)
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  • [14:45:46] <rann> hi, anyone around?
  • [14:46:11] <Crofton> hi
  • [14:46:52] <rann> hi, i've just discovered beagle, great stuff!
  • [14:47:05] <Crofton> we hope so :)
  • [14:47:15] <Crofton> we'll know when we can get boards :)
  • [14:48:03] <DJWillis> I am really liking the OMAP3 I must confess, I would like a better solution to the c64 but even without the DSP it's a nice chip to play with.
  • [14:48:32] <Crofton> I may have to bend over and get CCS
  • [14:48:43] <rann> i've build beagle 0.3.4 for fedora 8 based on the rpms that will be in f9. it works good but even though i have the beagle-thunderbird stuff installed and enabled, it wont index my thunderbird email. i'm running beagle with --fg --debug .. is there some way to find out why it is not indexing?
  • [14:48:46] <Crofton> I'll have to find a windows machine to run it on ...
  • [14:49:02] <Crofton> rann, I think you have the wrong beagle :)
  • [14:49:27] <rann> you mean specifically thihis was fixed in 0.3.5?
  • [14:49:54] <Crofton> I mean this channel is for http://beagleboard.org/ :)
  • [14:49:57] <rann> ah.. beagleboard
  • [14:49:58] <rann> haha
  • [14:50:07] <rann> sorry about that
  • [14:50:07] <Crofton> sorry
  • [14:50:11] <Crofton> np
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  • [14:50:59] <rann> off to find someone in fedora-devel ;-)
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  • [15:03:20] <DJWillis> That was a random conversation up there ;-)
  • [15:03:39] <DJWillis> Crofton: so do you have an OMAP3 board or just the older boards at the moment?
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  • [15:04:47] <Crofton> hhe
  • [15:05:02] <Crofton> I only have a Lyrtech SFF SDR board, which is DV based
  • [15:06:40] <DJWillis> Ahhh
  • [15:07:35] <Crofton> obviously beagle + USRP is almost as good at a fraction of the price
  • [15:08:01] <Crofton> and the OMAP 3 looks better for SDR than the Davinci
  • [15:10:14] <DJWillis> Crofton: it should be an interesting SoC that's for sure, we have some niggles but our board seems to be comming on well (nothing to do with Beagle). I also have my name down for a Beagle to hack with :D
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  • [16:08:48] <prpplague> greetings beagle bunch
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  • [18:37:10] <Crofton> dirk2, gm
  • [18:39:30] <dirk2> hi
  • [18:40:05] <dirk2> I'm currently looking at the mailing list
  • [18:40:20] <dirk2> Seems that we got a first bunch of u-boot patches
  • [18:40:29] <Crofton> yeah
  • [18:40:59] <ds2> where is the mailing list?
  • [18:41:03] <dirk2> But what confuses me is this kernel stuff.
  • [18:41:20] <dirk2> http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard
  • [18:41:52] <Crofton> I've not been following that to closely
  • [18:42:03] <Crofton> I'm hoping they send the patches to linux-omap git
  • [18:42:27] <dirk2> Any idea what is "WTBU kernel"?
  • [18:42:48] <Crofton> no
  • [18:44:17] <Crofton> maybe an internal Ti kernel?
  • [18:44:26] <dirk2> And then from Khasim:
  • [18:44:32] <dirk2> "Yes this is 2.6.22 kernel from kernel.org + Tony's 2.6.22 OMAP patch from muru.com, then our changes for Beagle and 3430SDP."
  • [18:44:57] <ds2> are people allowed to subscribe to the list as read-only email users w/o dealing with all the google login crap?
  • [18:45:27] <dirk2> ds2: Don't know :(
  • [18:45:56] <Crofton> I think the archives are public now
  • [18:46:03] <dirk2> It seems to me that it is a 2.6.22.1 btw.
  • [18:46:10] <Crofton> everyone NEEDS a google login :)
  • [18:46:20] <ds2> no one needs a google login
  • [18:46:31] <Crofton> all your logins are belong to us
  • [18:46:57] <ds2> and google logins are not universal either
  • [18:47:18] <ds2> some work enough for people to find you but you can't respond do anything about it
  • [18:47:47] <ds2> this is really irritating... reading patches with a proportional font#@$!@#@#!#
  • [18:47:53] <Crofton> yeah
  • [18:48:11] * Crofton hates proportional fonts, at least for email
  • [18:48:36] <Crofton> the last text innovation I actually liked was the shift key
  • [18:48:37] <ds2> w3m is much better
  • [18:48:43] <Crofton> w3m?
  • [18:48:52] <ds2> yeah, curses based web browser
  • [18:48:57] <Crofton> ah
  • [18:49:00] <Crofton> lynx
  • [18:49:03] <ds2> handles tables/frames better then links/lynx
  • [18:49:06] <dirk2> http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/3473b44af1e6e326 has the uboot patches as attachment
  • [18:51:21] <dirk2> ds2: Do you know http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard ?
  • [18:51:36] <ds2> dirk2: I have looked at that
  • [18:54:48] <dirk2> I tried a diff of kernel http://www.beagleboard.org/uploads/2.6_kernel-beagle-rev2.tar.gz against a clean 2.6.22 + 2.6.22.1 + 2.6.22-omap1
  • [18:55:12] <dirk2> and got differences in e.g mips :(
  • [18:55:20] <ds2> nice... no real change to the omap tree other then adding a board file
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  • [18:57:11] <ds2> i am amazed this stuff is built off the omap tree
  • [18:57:26] <Crofton> ds2, why?
  • [18:57:57] <ds2> Crofton: cuz TI has their own tree (the linux.omap.com) and parts of it are not easy to merge between the two trees
  • [18:58:08] <Crofton> ah
  • [18:58:14] <Crofton> ok, I see your point :)
  • [18:58:26] <ds2> it ain't pretty but TI's tree has better functionality
  • [18:58:39] <Crofton> beagle makes me forget about how silly TI can be :)
  • [18:59:29] <ds2> interesting... I didn't know normal mortals can build x-loader...thought it had to be signed for it to work
  • [19:00:04] <DJWillis> ds2: hashed would be a better way to say it I think
  • [19:00:05] <Crofton> I hope TI derives enough benefit from beagle to open up some more ...
  • [19:00:35] <ds2> DJWillis: didn't think that was documented
  • [19:00:42] <DJWillis> Crofton: well Beagle is not the only open platform trying to get off the ground with OMAP3.
  • [19:00:59] <DJWillis> ds2: code is up on the Beagle site
  • [19:01:34] <dirk2> Anybody tried the x-loader stuff on http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/BeagleSourceCode or http://www.beagleboard.org/gitweb/ ?
  • [19:01:38] <ds2> DJWillis: I am looking through the list archives and came across that pointer
  • [19:02:51] <DJWillis> dirk2: I have used similar on the EVM
  • [19:03:45] <dirk2> Do you know any readme/introduction documentation how to use it?
  • [19:04:06] <dirk2> I only know DVFlasher logic from DaVinci
  • [19:04:26] <ds2> it is something along the lines of burn it into the first sector that is linearly mapped on the NAND
  • [19:04:42] <ds2> then install U-boot on the rest and it should "just work"
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  • [19:05:18] <dirk2> So x-loader is the "first stage loader" running at the target?
  • [19:05:29] <ds2> yeah
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  • [19:05:46] <ds2> NAND is a serial access memory but most NAND chips have a tiny NOR block at the very beginning
  • [19:06:15] <ds2> xloader is the startup code that sits on the tiny NOR block and understands the NAND enough to download the rest of the code (uboot, etc) into RAM for execution
  • [19:06:52] <Crofton> something like UBL on the davinci?
  • [19:06:59] <dirk2> okay. How do I xloader then into this "tiny NOR" if I have a completely empty board?
  • [19:07:01] <prpplague> ds2: uh you sure about that?
  • [19:07:17] <prpplague> ds2: i've never heard of that before
  • [19:07:31] <dirk2> Crofton: UBL: Yes, sounds so
  • [19:08:21] <prpplague> i thought xloader was a standard stepping stone bootloader
  • [19:10:16] <prpplague> normally the first 2 blocks of nand flash are guaranteed good from the manufacturer
  • [19:10:58] * Crofton agrees with prpplague
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  • [19:11:24] <prpplague> and most ARM SoC's use whats called a "stepping stone" to copy the first 1k to 16k of data from the first blocks of nand flash to TCR
  • [19:11:30] <prpplague> and then executes the code
  • [19:11:38] <prpplague> in this case the code is xloader
  • [19:11:55] <prpplague> xloader knows how to get the other code out of nand flash and into sdram
  • [19:12:04] <prpplague> which in most cases is uboot
  • [19:12:37] <dirk2> Okay, and how do I get xloader then into the first blocks of NAND?
  • [19:12:53] <Crofton> Do they have anything like RBL?
  • [19:13:10] <dirk2> Yes, I think they have something like a ROM bootloader
  • [19:13:16] <prpplague> dirk2: normally that has to be done via jtag
  • [19:13:33] <prpplague> dirk2: or atleast on the systems i've used
  • [19:13:45] <Crofton> prpplague, davinci has a ROM boot loader that can load a loader into internal RAM
  • [19:13:52] <prpplague> Crofton: ahh
  • [19:13:56] <prpplague> Crofton: thats handy
  • [19:13:59] <Crofton> this loader can then write into NAND
  • [19:14:01] <Crofton> yeah
  • [19:14:20] <Crofton> I can debrick my SFF SDR board without JTAG :)
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  • [19:14:43] <dirk2> DaVinci has a bootrom which can communicate with PC over UART
  • [19:15:24] <prpplague> Crofton: yea yea, only real men can use jtag anyway..........
  • [19:15:33] * prpplague jokes with Crofton
  • [19:15:48] <Crofton> :)
  • [19:15:56] <dirk2> If I understand correctly, OMAP3 has similiar ROM functionality
  • [19:16:06] * Crofton hopes so
  • [19:16:25] <Crofton> OMAP5912 has a way to recover over USB
  • [19:16:40] <dirk2> But I can't remember that I heard anything about a PC tool like DVFlasher for this
  • [19:16:44] <Crofton> but the only recovery program I ever made work ran in windows :(
  • [19:17:02] <dirk2> Yes, like DVFlasher :(
  • [19:18:01] <prpplague> you guys should look into using apex for your bootloader
  • [19:18:12] <prpplague> apex supports stepping stone directly
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  • [19:38:14] <DJWillis> prpplague: so does U-Boot if you have to go down that route
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  • [19:39:54] <prpplague> DJWillis: ahh i was under the impression that xloader was required to start uboot
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  • [19:41:19] <DJWillis> prpplague: on the OMAP it seems to be the way they did it but for example on the old MMSP2/MMSP2+ (Korean ARM9 SoC's) we use U-Boot as a full 1st and 2nd stage (with the 1st stage U-Boot in the 1st 16k).
  • [19:41:39] <prpplague> DJWillis: ahh
  • [19:42:30] <prpplague> DJWillis: based build of apex is less than 16k so it fits all the way in the 1st stage
  • [19:42:42] <prpplague> DJWillis: you can do a 1st and 2n stage build of apex as well
  • [19:43:22] <DJWillis> prpplague: agreed, bootloaders, the ARM'dev's version of emacs V vi V nano ;-)
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  • [19:46:04] <prpplague> DJWillis: hehe indeed
  • [19:46:39] <prpplague> DJWillis: i'm a big fan of apex because it is small and light like blob, but has alot of the nice features of uboot
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  • [19:47:13] <DJWillis> I hack up U-Boot but that's just me, habit more then anything else ;-). And I can port over my noddy code from one U-Boot to another quickly ;-)
  • [19:48:15] <prpplague> hehe indeed
  • [19:50:03] <DJWillis> Most of that is just a toggled OS boot menu I have, Boot SD, NAND etc etc. and some options for crud like that.
  • [19:55:34] <ds2> prpplague: pretty sure... the Nokia N800/N810 uses that on the OMAP2420
  • [19:56:02] <ds2> if you take apart their fiasco images, you'll see - xloader, nolo, kernel, initrd, filesystem
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  • [20:35:02] <jkridne1> Crofton, Beagle will be able to boot from SD, USB, and serial using the ROM.
  • [20:35:56] <jkridne1> still need to find a PC utility.
  • [20:36:19] <jkridne1> code.google.com/p/beagleboard has instructions to configure an SD card for boot.
  • [20:36:29] <Crofton> jkridne1, boot, as in load something that copies the real loader to flash?
  • [20:36:40] <Crofton> ah, you can boot straight from SD?
  • [20:36:50] <Crofton> without anything in flash?
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  • [23:39:38] <jkridne2> Crofton, correct.
  • [23:39:51] <jkridne2> you don't need anything in the flash to boot from SD.
  • [23:39:58] <jkridne2> or USB. or UART.
  • [23:40:05] <Crofton> neat
  • [23:40:10] <jkridne2> "unbrickable" :)
  • [23:40:17] <jkridne2> (just don't fry it)
  • [23:41:08] <Crofton> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57bfxsiVTd4
  • [23:41:19] <jkridne2> Well, I'm shutting down to head home, but I'll be on later tonight.
  • [23:41:25] <Crofton> l8r
  • [23:41:54] <jkridne2> why am I watching David Letterman?
  • [23:42:05] <Crofton> you'll get it :)
  • [23:42:15] <Crofton> you don't know who she is?
  • [23:42:30] <Crofton> it is on topic :)
  • [23:42:55] <jkridne2> Admiral Grace Hopper?
  • [23:42:55] <Crofton> some guy on #edev found it
  • [23:42:57] <Crofton> yeah
  • [23:44:48] <Crofton> what's crazy is how young Letterman looks
  • [23:51:57] <jkridne2> well, I don't see how it was on topic, but I don't think it was a waste of my time either. later.
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